Marquette Gambled -- post last year

[curbina]

Author Topic: Marquette gambled ...  (Read 11849 times)
curbina
« on: February 01, 2015, 10:24:33 AM »
Considering the inconsistent track record of Duke assistants (see list shown below) Marquette gambled on an assistant with no experience as a head coach. Under Wojo's leadership Marquette basketball is now in complete turmoil! I suppose you could say that "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em" and it is now time to send Wojo back to Duke and hire an experienced basketball coach!

List of former Duke assistant coaches.

Chris Collins (Northwestern Head Coach)
Collins first year (2013-2014) at Northwestern was less than stellar with a conference record of 6-12 and an overall record of 14-19. This year Northwestern is 1-7 in conference play and have an overall record of 10-11.

Mike Brey (Notre Dame Head Coach)
Brey is the most successful former assistant of Coach K, winning over 375 games in his time as a head coach at Delaware and Notre Dame. The three-time Big East Coach of the Year has the Irish back in the hunt for a conference title this season. But despite Brey’s sparkling winning percentage, he’s only been to the Sweet 16 once in 17 seasons as a head coach.

Tommy Amaker (Harvard Head Coach)
Amaker was fired at Michigan in 2007 and is now toiling in the obscurity of the Ivy League.

Johnny Dawkins (Stanford Head Coach)
In 2008, he was given the head coaching job at Stanford, but Dawkins’ first four years were mediocre at best. Dawkins did win the 2012 NIT Tournament and finally made the 2014 NCAA Tournament and was eliminated in the Sweet Sixteen by Dyton. This year Stanford is 6-3 in conference play and have an overall record of 15-6.

Jeff Capel (Ex-Oklahoma Head Coach)
Capel lead VCU to 79 wins in four seasons. After riding Blake Griffin to the 2009 Elite Eight, Capel’s Oklahoma teams nosedived with two straight losing seasons. Capel has come back to Coach K, tail tucked between his legs, and is currently an assistant coach for the Blue Devils.

Quin Snyder (Ex-Missouri Head Coach)
Snyder then accepted the head coaching position at the University of Missouri, and led the Tigers to four consecutive NCAA Tournaments, including one Elite Eight appearance. After two NIT appearances followed, Snyder was axed in Columbia. He’s now a long way from home as an assistant for Russia’s CSKA Moscow.

Robert Brickey (Ex-Shaw Head Coach)
Brickey’s only head coaching job came in DII at Shaw University, where he only lasted three seasons. Brickey is currently the Director of Basketball at Hoops City U, a youth basketball program.

Mike Dement (Ex-UNC-Greensboro Head Coach)
Demant coach at Cornell, SMU and UNCG, not exactly blue blood program. Dement made the NCAA tournament once at Cornell but has resigned his past two head coaching positions at SMU and UNCG midseason, the latter coming in December of 2011.

David Henderson (Ex-Delaware Head Coach)
Henderson coached under Krzyzewski between 1998-2000, when he was tapped to be the University of Delaware’s head coach. In 2006 Henderson was fired after Delaware posted a 9-21 record. He hasn’t resurfaced in college basketball since.

Tim O’Toole (Ex-Fairfield Head Coach)
After one season as a Seton Hall assistant, O’Toole took over for his alma mater, Fairfield, as the program’s head coach. In eight years, O’Toole could only muster one NIT appearance and was out the door. He’s currently the director of basketball operations for Syracuse.

 Logged

[jesmu84]

Cool post, guy.

[tower912]

Getting out of bed is a gamble.  Staying in bed is a gamble.    Every coaching hire is a gamble.   Hiring Larry Williams and Scott Pilarz was a gamble.   

[curbina]

Getting out of bed is a gamble.  Staying in bed is a gamble.    Every coaching hire is a gamble.   Hiring Larry Williams and Scott Pilarz was a gamble.

Very true, that is why "you've got to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em".

[tower912]

Or "don't mess with happy."

[MU82]

Welcome to the site, curbina.

We need another negative dipshyte to come out of the woodwork and tell us how doomed the program is.

[tower912]

Welcome to the site, curbina.

We need another negative dipshyte to come out of the woodwork and tell us how doomed the program is.

A little harsh.

[CAINMUTINY]

3 posts.  That's cute.

Wojo while not having produced any tourney appearances or wins has crushed when it comes to recruiting, especially in the state of wisconsin and with bigs.  This team is incredibly young and still playing decently.  If HE sticks around we're a top 15 team next year with the addition of Hauser and Rowsey. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Patience people. A loss last night does not have any effect on next year's season. This was always going to be a rebuilding year. If we aren't better by next season then start to  worry

[mu-rara]

Patience people. A loss last night does not have any effect on next year's season. This was always going to be a rebuilding year. If we aren't better by next season then start to  worry

Amen Brother.

[WarriorPride68]

3 posts.  That's cute.

Didn't see that being on mobile. In that case:

[crazyfannyboy54]

I just have a hard time believing how WOJO wowed in the interview process and has produced such B minus results. Just wondering what the PREZ saw instead of Martin or other coaching applicants.

[Golden Avalanche]

I just have a hard time believing how WOJO wowed in the interview process and has produced such B minus results. Just wondering what the PREZ saw instead of Martin or other coaching applicants.

The answer is revealed in your own wondering.

[tower912]

I just have a hard time believing how WOJO wowed in the interview process and has produced such B minus results. Just wondering what the PREZ saw instead of Martin or other coaching applicants.

That is easy.   Wojo was the anti-Buzz.   Clean background.   Long history at the elbow of coach K.  All of that experience working with the Olympic/National team.   Do a positive interview based on what you had learned through all of those experiences, project how you are going to turn Marquette into the Duke of the Big East, and voila. 

[crazyfannyboy54]

Do we think the PREZ and board fell in love with WOJO too quickly???

[Dawson Rental]

Do we think the PREZ and board fell in love with WOJO too quickly???

No, WE don't think that at all.

A little history for the nonobservant.  Wojo is playing with a team with no seniors and five (half the team) freshmen, three of whom are starting. 

How did such a thing come to be?

  1. Buzz had some recruiting miscues leading to a very poor final year for him.

  2. Buzz left resulting in only one of a very solid recruiting class of five - Sandy Cohen - coming on board.

  3. As a result, Wojo had to coach his first season with a very undermanned team. And currently Wojo is coaching in arguably the best basketball conference in the county with a freshman dominated team.  For those who know basketball, the inconsistency of this year's team was expected.

The article quoted in the initial post is an example of what is called the post hoc fallacy which falsely assumes that correlation proves causation.

[keefe]

No, WE don't think that at all.

A little history for the nonobservant.  Wojo is playing with a team with no seniors and five (half the team) freshmen, three of whom are starting. 

How did such a thing come to be?

  1. Buzz had some recruiting miscues leading to a very poor final year for him.

  2. Buzz left resulting in only one of a very solid recruiting class of five - Sandy Cohen - coming on board.

  3. As a result, Wojo had to coach his first season with a very undermanned team. And currently Wojo is coaching in arguably the best basketball conference in the county with a freshman dominated team.  For those who know basketball, the inconsistency of this year's team was expected.

The article quoted in the initial post is an example of what is called the post hoc fallacy which falsely assumes that correlation proves causation.

This is all on that sonuvabitch Bert!

[GGGG]

Furthermore, it was written a year ago.  Since then...

Brey got to the E8 where ND lost a heartbreaker to Kentucky.

Collins has Northwestern heading in the right direction.

Amacher won is fourth straight Ivy League title and came within two points as a #13 seed of beating UNC.

The article was wrong last year regarding Snyder.  He was, and is currently, the head coach of the Utah Jazz.  He would have likely remained in college had he not had rules violations.

[keefe]

The article was wrong last year regarding Snyder.  He was, and is currently, the head coach of the Utah Jazz.  He would have likely remained in college had he not had rules violations.

Same thing applies to Dave Bliss...

Actually, Snyder is a Mercer Island guy. A bud played high school ball with him before going on to play at the Academy. He said Snyder was the greatest friend in the world but a dick to everyone else.

[WarriorPride68]

Same thing applies to Dave Bliss...

Actually, Snyder is a Mercer Island guy. A bud played high school ball with him before going on to play at the Academy. He said Snyder was the greatest friend in the world but a dick to everyone else.

This is excellent. I've always wanted to know if the Coke head rumors were legit when he was at Mizz?

[tower912]

This is all on that sonuvabitch Bert!

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

[Class71]

This is all on that sonuvabitch Bert!

First blame your predecessor, then blame the tough cinference, then the refs, then repeat as long as folks can tolerate it or take some bold action to straighten this mess out.

[keefe]

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

I'm with you, bro.

I said it at the time: Pilarz and Williams (Larry) were toxic. There were issues within the Athletic Department as a whole and in Men's BB in particular but they applied a meat cleaver when a scalpel would have been more effective. The struggles of the past three years are on Pilarz more than any other single individual.

I read in a Georgetown Prep email that Pilarz is hosting Poetry Readings in the evenings. To me, that is really creepy.

[Golden Avalanche]

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

VTech got blown to bits by two best teams in non-con and have not one win of note in a piddling 8-5 start to the season. Their ACC wins are mostly against the dregs of the conference and Virginia, who is mediocre this season. It's not a miracle job. Buzz went to the ACC knowing, like the Big East he coached in, that there was enough crap on the bottom of the pile for him to not be the absolute worst. Considering that low bar, sure, he's currently doing wonderfully.

Come next week when the schedule balances out, VTech will be 4-4 heading into four of their next five on the road. Let's see then if the plaudits hold up.

[Dawson Rental]

I'm with you, bro.

I said it at the time: Pilarz and Williams (Larry) were toxic. There were issues within the Athletic Department as a whole and in Men's BB in particular but they applied a meat cleaver when a scalpel would have been more effective. The struggles of the past three years are on Pilarz more than any other single individual.

I read in a Georgetown Prep email that Pilarz is hosting Poetry Readings in the evenings. To me, that is really creepy.

(below)
From the keefe greatest hits collection    ....a MUScoop classic

[tower912]

VTech got blown to bits by two best teams in non-con and have not one win of note in a piddling 8-5 start to the season. Their ACC wins are mostly against the dregs of the conference and Virginia, who is mediocre this season. It's not a miracle job. Buzz went to the ACC knowing, like the Big East he coached in, that there was enough crap on the bottom of the pile for him to not be the absolute worst. Considering that low bar, sure, he's currently doing wonderfully.

Come next week when the schedule balances out, VTech will be 4-4 heading into four of their next five on the road. Let's see then if the plaudits hold up.

I know you and I have disagreed about Buzz in the past.   Ah, well, sometimes people don't agree.   Which coach, Buzz or Wojo, do you think gets their program to the dance first?

[KenoshaWarrior]

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

+10000000

It was Larry and Pilarz who ruined a good thing. 

[keefe]

VTech got blown to bits by two best teams in non-con and have not one win of note in a piddling 8-5 start to the season. Their ACC wins are mostly against the dregs of the conference and Virginia, who is mediocre this season. It's not a miracle job. Buzz went to the ACC knowing, like the Big East he coached in, that there was enough crap on the bottom of the pile for him to not be the absolute worst. Considering that low bar, sure, he's currently doing wonderfully.

Come next week when the schedule balances out, VTech will be 4-4 heading into four of their next five on the road. Let's see then if the plaudits hold up.

There is no doubt that Bert can coach. And his teams played with a passion that would be welcome this year. But the dude is really, really odd.

Not odd in a creepy Tanned Tommy way. But weird in a bizarre Rainman fashion.

And his wife just feeds that eccentricity, stoking his peculiar funkiness to outlandish if not eerie expressions.

Bert can coach but Marquette is a much better place without his absurdities.

(And for those who draw comparisons with Al, McGuire employed strategems which motivated and inspired. Bert relished his weirdness to the point of making it a lifestyle.)   

Wojo is learning but I am confident he will get this right. In the meantime, his straight forward manner is a refreshing change from the oddball, ghastly even, behaviors of his numerous predecessors.

[4everwarriors]

I dunno, y'all call what Shaka has goin' on at UT, success, hey?

[Dawson Rental]

I dunno, y'all call what Shaka has goin' on at UT, success, hey?

I think it's called havoc. 

[GGGG]

There is no doubt that Bert can coach. And his teams played with a passion that would be welcome this year. But the dude is really, really odd.

Not odd in a creepy Tanned Tommy way. But weird in a bizarre Rainman fashion.

And his wife just feeds that eccentricity, stoking his peculiar funkiness to outlandish if not eerie expressions.

Bert can coach but Marquette is a much better place without his absurdities.

(And for those who draw comparisons with Al, McGuire employed strategems which motivated and inspired. Bert relished his weirdness to the point of making it a lifestyle.)   

Wojo is learning but I am confident he will get this right. In the meantime, his straight forward manner is a refreshing change from the oddball, ghastly even, behaviors of his numerous predecessors.

It shouldn't be a Wojo v. Buzz comparison.

It really should be a Wojo v. Cuonzo or Wojo v. Howland comparison.

[jsheim]

I liked buzz....weirdness and winning. It was a fun ride.

I like wojo...straight arrow...winning needed though. Ill give him 2 more years to start winning. Im optimistic about next year.

But their teams will look real different...wojo will have a poor mans Duke and buzz put out a poor mans NBA team.

[Dawson Rental]

I liked buzz....weirdness and winning. It was a fun ride.

I like wojo...straight arrow...winning needed though. Ill give him 2 more years to start winning. Im optimistic about next year.

But their teams will look real different...wojo will have a poor mans Duke and buzz put out a poor mans NBA team.

Buzz did get a year of grace with a veteran team to start out.  Then he had to rebuild the next year.  He got it done quicker with JUCOs, though.  Wojo is recruiting fewer stopgaps, concentrating on building with freshmen to make things less variable, year to year.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I liked buzz....weirdness and winning. It was a fun ride.

I like wojo...straight arrow...winning needed though. Ill give him 2 more years to start winning. Im optimistic about next year.

But their teams will look real different...wojo will have a poor mans Duke and buzz put out a poor mans NBA team that can't sign bigs.

edited for accuracy

[Goose]

MU picked the anti Buzz after Shaka changed his mind. Wojo will never get in a bit of trouble and MU likes the clean program. Buzz was odd beyond belief but he provided more action than any coach after Al IMO. I am not disappointed that he is gone by any stretch and not completely jumping ship. It is getting more and more difficult to keep getting fired and that worries me big time.

Getting fannies in the seats is more difficult today than ever before and poor squad makes it nearly impossible. For whatever reason I really do believe that MU admin takes the program and fans for granted. Two plus seasons of HORRIBLE basketball is tough to take, even for the most die hard fan. It seems like Vander stealing a NCAA game or the Miami S16 game was 10 years ago to me.

[tower912]

For whatever reason I really do believe that MU admin takes the program and fans for granted.

I think this is a variation of history repeating itself.    After Al, MU didn't upgrade facilities because the old gym was good enough for Al.   There was no need to join a conference because the Marquette name would sell itself and we were getting on WGN a dozen times a year.   More assistants?   Pfaahh. 

This time it was decided that there was no need to meet halfway the coach who had just gone S-16, S-16, E-8.   We can clip his wings a little, limit who he can bring in, change where they live and if he leaves, meh, the program will take care of itself.   We're Marquette and we're in the Big East. 

I haven't given up on Wojo at all.   But IMO it is another example of the Blue and Gold myopia and tin ear on the parts of the powers that be. 

[GGGG]

I think this is a variation of history repeating itself.    After Al, MU didn't upgrade facilities because the old gym was good enough for Al.   There was no need to join a conference because the Marquette name would sell itself and we were getting on WGN a dozen times a year.   More assistants?   Pfaahh. 

This time it was decided that there was no need to meet halfway the coach who had just gone S-16, S-16, E-8.   We can clip his wings a little, limit who he can bring in, change where they live and if he leaves, meh, the program will take care of itself.   We're Marquette and we're in the Big East. 

I haven't given up on Wojo at all.   But IMO it is another example of the Blue and Gold myopia and tin ear on the parts of the powers that be. 

At its heart, Marquette is a conservative, rather staid organization.

At its best, Marquette basketball hasn't been.

And there ya go.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

He has NO ONE to blame but himself.   Just stop.  He's in a perfect place, at a football school where no one gives a rip about basketball, he can push the envelope where he wants, he can have his staff lie and no one will care, he can have guys on the police blotter and in the news and no one will care.  Could not have been a more perfect place, absolutely in the middle of NO WHERE where NO ONE cares.

[Lennys Tap]

TOM CREAN has NO ONE to blame but himself.   Just stop.  He's in a perfect place, he can push the envelope where he wants, he can have his staff lie and no one will care, he can have guys on the police blotter and in the news and no one will care.  Could not have been a more perfect place, absolutely in the middle of NO WHERE where NO ONE cares.

FIFY

[KenoshaWarrior]

At its heart, Marquette is a conservative, rather staid organization.

At its best, Marquette basketball hasn't been.

And there ya go.

That is an excellent  point.
When you look at when Marquette is good, it is always when we have an "outlaw" streak in us.   
Al had a rebel streak in him
Crean had a little bit of a rebel streak with his signing of Dwade as a prop 40
Buzz pushed the envelope.

[KenoshaWarrior]

He has NO ONE to blame but himself.   Just stop.  He's in a perfect place, at a football school where no one gives a rip about basketball, he can push the envelope where he wants, he can have his staff lie and no one will care, he can have guys on the police blotter and in the news and no one will care.  Could not have been a more perfect place, absolutely in the middle of NO WHERE where NO ONE cares.

Your hatred towards our former coach is laughable at best; obsessive at worst

[Golden Avalanche]

I know you and I have disagreed about Buzz in the past.   Ah, well, sometimes people don't agree.   Which coach, Buzz or Wojo, do you think gets their program to the dance first?

Buzz.

[Dawson Rental]

That is an excellent  point.
When you look at when Marquette is good, it is always when we have an "outlaw" streak in us.   
Al had a rebel streak in him
Crean had a little bit of a rebel streak with his signing of Dwade as a prop 40
Buzz pushed the envelope.

Nothing says rebel like an orange tan.

[Lennys Tap]

Nothing says rebel like an orange tan.

Just spit out my drink

[dgies9156]

OK, as a Warrior who saw most of the best years our university ever had, I too am kinda burned out about another year of very un-Warrior performance. And even if we're the Golden Eagles, Marquette basketball stands for more than what we're seeing on the court now.

If we're objective about the situation, we have Wojo. He's going nowhere for now. He needs time to show what he can do and, so far, the short-term is a smelly pile of dung but the long-term is promising.

We've recovered from a very bare cupboard -- not even Mother Hubbard would have let things get that low -- and recruited a great class that's freshmen now. Yes, I know, Henry's gone... save it, nobody with the possible exception of Henry, Wojo and a few close family members knows whether Henry is gone. Even without Henry, the freshman and sophomore core of our team is strong.

Our limited recruits for next year made us an ESPN Top 25 recruiting class last time I looked. We snagged one of the best recruits in Wisconsin in Hauser and rumor has it things are looking up for a further recruit or two we need.

We've got some problems, yes. Luke and the team need a snap lesson in defensive basketball. Our offensive off-the-ball movement is inconsistent and I sometimes scratch my head at what we're doing. That's what happens when we have a good young coach and a learning, emerging basketball team.

When you make a commitment to someone, you keep it. That means we give Wojo a chance. Maybe he needs to hire a seasoned, grizzled assistant. Maybe we're a player or two away. Or maybe he is Rick Majerus Part 2? He needs at least two more years after this year to see what happens.

If we chase Wojo now, what do you really expect we're going to replace him with?

Absent recruiting violations, thuggish behavior by our team members or violations of law, there is NO reason to think he shouldn't be here for a long time to come!

[WarriorPride68]

We snagged one of the best recruits in Wisconsin in Hauser and rumor has it things are looking up for a further recruit or two we need.

Who?

[keefe]

Crean had a little bit of a rebel streak with his signing of Dwade as a prop 40

Not sure about this. Crean is one of the most milquetoast dudes out there.

His idea of rebel was riding an ATV in a karate gi or deluging teenaged boys with tweets about how he is thinking about them. In the world of fighter pilots that's not rebel: that's f@cking strange.

[MU82]

He has NO ONE to blame but himself.   Just stop.  He's in a perfect place, at a football school where no one gives a rip about basketball, he can push the envelope where he wants, he can have his staff lie and no one will care, he can have guys on the police blotter and in the news and no one will care.  Could not have been a more perfect place, absolutely in the middle of NO WHERE where NO ONE cares.

I rather enjoyed Buzz his first five years at Marquette.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No, this is all on those sonsabitches Larry and Pilarz, who poisoned the MU well for Buzz.    Based on what he did at MU and what he is currently doing at VTech, what do you think the state of the MU program would have been if he had stayed?

More police blotter activity?

[Jay Bee]

More police blotter activity?

Seems to be a good thing down at I4, a''inal?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seems to be a good thing down at I4, a''inal?

Might be, but I thought this was about Marquette basketball.   Buzz's guys (players, staff, himself) put MU in a tough spot, and when you're players on the evening news for things other than basketball, when you're on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, etc, etc....well the hammer is going to come down.  The idea that it wouldn't, is beyond belief.  The Buzz worshippers can deny this all they want, but if he had control over his players, staff and himself, then some of those reactions never would have happened.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Might be, but I thought this was about Marquette basketball.   Buzz's guys (players, staff, himself) put MU in a tough spot, and when you're players on the evening news for things other than basketball, when you're on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, etc, etc....well the hammer is going to come down.  The idea that it wouldn't, is beyond belief.  The Buzz worshippers can deny this all they want, but if he had control over his players, staff and himself, then some of those reactions never would have happened.

Your vacation cannot start soon enough...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your vacation cannot start soon enough...

I'm on it, but we're snowed in....can't go skiing due to high winds and the next 24 hours another 2 feet expected.  Already worked out today, just killing some time.  Probably going snowshoeing in a bit.

Now, what did I say that was wrong?  MU had no choice but to react.

When this happens

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/29991/dont-call-vander-blue-uncreative-names

then this

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/143490406.html

then this

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-28/sports/ct-met-marquette-sex-cases-20111028_1_athletes-campus-security-sexual-assault-policies/3


and then this

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/8813611/marquette-golden-eagles-coach-buzz-williams-was-miserable-suspension-college-basketball

as well as those not reported for "team rules", etc.

you aren't going to get a bunch of attaboys.  The squeeze will be put on.  Just the way it is.  The administration is going to do something.  He didn't like it....he's somewhere that those things matter much less.   

[tower912]

You keep ignoring Crean's players failing at MU.   To you, the sexual assault controversy trumps all.    So be it.     But I haven't forgotten Hazel, Mortenson, Amo, Matthews, Bell.    You rail against JUCO's.   I haven't forgotten Kinsella, Blackledge, Lott.    Those things happened at MU.