White Privilege at MU

[Jockey]

Jockey

I am far from easily offended, but I find your comments to be offensive. Your lack of general respect is very disturbing to me.

I already responded to this post once, but I would like you to read this from Jim Stingl of the JS.

When I watch that awful body cam video of the Sterling Brown arrest, I see black and white and no shades of gray.

There's Brown, a young African-American man who happens to play for the Milwaukee Bucks. He parked across two handicapped spots during a quick stop at Walgreens at 2 a.m. Not the best idea, but a ticket would suffice.

And there is the army of white police officers that surrounds Brown, throws him to the ground, zaps him with a Taser, cuffs and arrests him.

It's painfully clear. From the very beginning of the encounter, Brown in his hoodie is assumed to be a criminal and is treated like one by police. This is what people of color across this country experience every day.

The first officer to make contact with Brown immediately accuses him of obstructing for standing too close. He picks a fight.

Then the officer sets the tone for everything about to follow: "I'll do what I want, all right? I own this right here," he says.

That's a thousand miles from protect and serve.

Brown, calm and speaking softly, gives the perfect reply: "You don't own me, though."

The officer calls Brown dude and man. Not sir. "Everything I'm doing is on camera, dude."


It sure is. And it's providing a clear look at what overreacting jerks these cops were early on Jan. 26 at 27th and National.

Alfonso Morales, who became police chief after this incident happened, said some members of his department acted inappropriately and were disciplined. That's good. But then he threw a tarp over his promise of transparency by refusing to answer questions from reporters. 

"I am sorry this incident escalated to this level," he said.

We are, too. Brown was put through a terrifying ordeal and likely feared he could be shot dead like so many young black men before him. And Milwaukee gets another black eye as the video spreads across news and social media everywhere.

It's comical that the police union points to this incident as evidence of inadequate staffing. That parking lot filled with police cars and officers, and they hung around waiting for the big takedown.

You wonder if Officer Do What I Want begins to realize that Brown is not just the typical citizen that he bullies, but rather a celebrity that will lead to intense scrutiny of his actions.

But he doesn't sound worried about that later in the video when he says to a fellow officer, "Now he's like, well, I'm a Bucks player, blah, blah, blah. So what."

I still don't understand why the officers surrounding Brown suddenly became so concerned about the fact that his hands were in his pockets on this cold morning. He had been standing that way for several minutes and no one was alarmed. And let's remind ourselves that he was careless about parking his car, not a robbery or murder suspect.

Eight minutes into the video, the cops tackle Brown, or as the chief puts it, they decentralize him. If was like six against one at that point, but the officers still felt the need to tase him. You can hear him groaning in pain. It's sickening.

Brown ended up charged with nothing. He plans to sue the police.

"Situations like mine and worse happen every day in the black community. Being a voice and a face for people who won't be heard and don't have the same platform as I have is a responsibility I take seriously," he said in a statement.

Nobody is saying police work is easy. Officers find themselves in dangerous and even deadly situations all too often. Many serve honorably.

But Mayor Tom Barrett is right that what happened in this parking lot on this night is offensive. He apologized to Brown.

That apology should extend back over decades to the countless victims of police brutality that we never got to see on video.


Can you even imagine what Brown had to be thinking as these officers assaulted him? Do you think images of beaten and murdered blacks went through his mind? I called these officers "pigs". Stingl calls them "overreacting jerks". What would you call them?

[NorthernDancerColt]

Yes, he meant exactly what he said. 

I'd call it a dog whistle for his base, except a dog whistle is meant to be something only they can hear.  In this case, he said it, he meant it, and he wanted everyone to hear it.

But let's retrace:  You gave an example of actions that caused you to change your opinion; I gave a similar example.  It wasn't meant as an attack on you, so not sure how you read it as such.

My bad. No big deal. I think I was still smarting from Billy Hoyle basically accusing me of harboring a serial killer by not rejecting Trump sooner, not lol.

[Billy Hoyle]

Wow, you're pretty naive to think no politician ever made promises that he or she had no intent of delivering on. The smart money is on you being duped several times, apparently without you ever admitting it.  I could name the former leaders tucking their napkins in their shirt and enjoying you with some fava and a nice chianti, but I don't stoop so low. Wow, equating voters with murder victims, and a sitting President with a serial killer. Those on the right who shamefully dehumanized President Obama have nothing on you.

Somebody is triggered and is projecting after being exposed as foolish with your “sure, he’s a con artist and criminal but he’s a nice con artist and criminal” approach. Many are duped (I once thought Scott Walker was a good and genuine guy) but to admit that one knows what a person is but believe “it’s ok, he’ll change for me” is beyond naive.  I would have hoped MU would have taught you stronger logical and critical thinking skills.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Somebody is triggered and is projecting after being exposed as foolish with your “sure, he’s a con artist and criminal but he’s a nice con artist and criminal” approach. Many are duped (I once thought Scott Walker was a good and genuine guy) but to admit that one knows what a person is but believe “it’s ok, he’ll change for me” is beyond naive.  I would have hoped MU would have taught you stronger logical and critical thinking skills.

Where did I ever signal support for him or call him nice? I intimated that I put up with him, and found his whole charade sadly funny, until he failed to see how much this country meant to one Navajo who spoke so eloquently about serving during WWII. Trump cheapened the event and was beyond petty by tarnishing that gathering by invoking the Pocahantas jab again at Elizabeth Warren.

 I tolerated him because up until then, this was the first time he engaged not just "enemy combatants" like the media and pol opponents, but dissed the very group he brought to the White House to "honor." In sum, he couldn't resist his own narcissistic folly. Ok, he was out of line in his mocking of the disabled reporter, so I maybe missed my bus stop there.

 Elites have a hammerlock on our politics. Have for decades. The world is but a stage. You are mistaken if you think there is a huge difference between the parties. I would expect better critical thinking from an MU grad. May I suggest the works of Russel Means, a great Native American thinker who overcame drug addiction and secured multiple degrees. He calls out the political class en-masse for failing to adhere to any semblance of our Constitution, a document which borrowed ideas from tribal constitutions. He posits that we all have become an enslaved citizenry by willfully ceding our property, privacy, and civil rights to false patriotism and a diabolical Federal Reserve. Trump is just another in a long line of deceitful politicians.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Somebody is triggered and is projecting after being exposed as foolish with your “sure, he’s a con artist and criminal but he’s a nice con artist and criminal” approach. Many are duped (I once thought Scott Walker was a good and genuine guy) but to admit that one knows what a person is but believe “it’s ok, he’ll change for me” is beyond naive.  I would have hoped MU would have taught you stronger logical and critical thinking skills.

Oh, my bad. I just read your "tagline", and I could've saved myself time in responding. It speaks volumes about you. My father had a storied political career, and he took me aside at a young age and said, "If anyone claims to 'tell it like it is', unless he's Walter Cronkite, you can be certain they are one of two things: full of themselves or of fecal matter." Glad you have it all figured out though....congrats.

[rocket surgeon]

Jockey

I am far from easily offended, but I find your comments to be offensive. Your lack of general respect is very disturbing to me.

note the empathy from the police haters...crickets.  goose, you are the only one bothering to comment on these knee-jerk responses he has toward all police.  i cringe to think what it's like in jockrash's house when news that a cop(s)were ambushed and killed trying to protect.  yes, there are some bad seed cops out there, but...with all his angry rhetoric, i'd love to see the reaction on his face after they just saved one of his family members from some type of distress.  or would he not even call the police to help with his pent up anger toward police.

   here is a silly little statistic probably overlooked by jock-more white people are killed by cops than blacks
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

    juxtapose these responses to jockstrap to who respond to mine-i'd have 7 or 8 of these guys pummeling me on this board if i disagreed with them on "more taste" or "less filling"

there are a few professions that i respect the hell out of-military, law enforcement, airline pilots and father flanigan.  i realize we all put our pants on one leg at a time, but some of these do not know if they will be coming home to take them off the same

[jesmu84]

note the empathy from the police haters...crickets.  goose, you are the only one bothering to comment on these knee-jerk responses he has toward all police.  i cringe to think what it's like in jockrash's house when news that a cop(s)were ambushed and killed trying to protect.  yes, there are some bad seed cops out there, but...with all his angry rhetoric, i'd love to see the reaction on his face after they just saved one of his family members from some type of distress.  or would he not even call the police to help with his pent up anger toward police.

   here is a silly little statistic probably overlooked by jock-more white people are killed by cops than blacks
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

    juxtapose these responses to jockstrap to who respond to mine-i'd have 7 or 8 of these guys pummeling me on this board if i disagreed with them on "more taste" or "less filling"

there are a few professions that i respect the hell out of-military, law enforcement, airline pilots and father flanigan.  i realize we all put our pants on one leg at a time, but some of these do not know if they will be coming home to take them off the same

Blatantly a lie. Go back through the thread. Multiple people told brand that it was inappropriate to insult the police

[GGGG]

   here is a silly little statistic probably overlooked by jock-more white people are killed by cops than blacks
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

Well no kidding.  Whites make up 60% of the population.  Blacks make up about 12%.

And that's not the point of this topic.  The point is that Brown was very likely treated differently than a white person was due to his race. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

My bad. No big deal. I think I was still smarting from Billy Hoyle basically accusing me of harboring a serial killer by not rejecting Trump sooner, not lol.

No worries.  I figured something must have gotten lost in translation to get that sort of reaction when I was basically agreeing with the part I quoted.

[Goose]

Rocket

It is funny, but as a rule I am not overly trusting of police. I respect their job and their role in our society a great deal, and on the other hand, I have a fear of them. As a white male, living in an almost all white suburb I find it strange I fear them.

I guess my point is, I understand, to a very, very small degree, the anger others have on the Brown case. That said, I would never paint an entire group of people as being pigs or bad people. The older I get, the more I try very hard not to paint with wide brush.

[GGGG]

Rocket

It is funny, but as a rule I am not overly trusting of police. I respect their job and their role in our society a great deal, and on the other hand, I have a fear of them. As a white male, living in an almost all white suburb I find it strange I fear them.

Goose, I agree with you here.

I respect police entirely, but when you have a confrontation with one (even one as innocuous as a speeding ticket), they have all the power.  They are an agent of the state.  I understand they have a hard job to do, but my individual liberty is generally not their primary concern.

[MU82]

Blatantly a lie. Go back through the thread. Multiple people told brand that it was inappropriate to insult the police

Yep. As usual, sees what he wants to see.

I don't like the word, "pig" when it comes to cops, because it is an unnecessary, lazy label. It's the cop version of the n-word, or "kike" or any other racial/ethnic insult. It's just an unnecessary term.

"Pigs" are farm animals. They don't attack people just for the hell of it.

Thugs, jerks, bullies and a-holes do - and that's what those cops are. I truly hope they serve time, but I doubt they will.

[WarriorDad]

Rocket

It is funny, but as a rule I am not overly trusting of police. I respect their job and their role in our society a great deal, and on the other hand, I have a fear of them. As a white male, living in an almost all white suburb I find it strange I fear them.

I guess my point is, I understand, to a very, very small degree, the anger others have on the Brown case. That said, I would never paint an entire group of people as being pigs or bad people. The older I get, the more I try very hard not to paint with wide brush.

THIS.   What is troubling is Jockey has said in the past statements that disparage minority groups are wrong (as they should be), but does the same thing here by broadly disparaging this group, police in this case.  Not sure he recognizes that he is doing what he chimes against, including his favorite guy in the WH that does this all the time and Jockey doing same thing.  Broad brush is wrong.

EDIT:  For clarity

[WarriorDad]

I don't know that zero is the number but this is a point well made nonetheless.

Definitely not zero, can easily pull up examples on You Tube to show that isn't the case, but agree the number is low and point made.

[Jockey]

Rocket

It is funny, but as a rule I am not overly trusting of police. I respect their job and their role in our society a great deal, and on the other hand, I have a fear of them. As a white male, living in an almost all white suburb I find it strange I fear them.

I guess my point is, I understand, to a very, very small degree, the anger others have on the Brown case. That said, I would never paint an entire group of people as being pigs or bad people. The older I get, the more I try very hard not to paint with wide brush.

I may upset people here, but at least I try to be honest.

I gladly give you the benefit of the doubt in this thread and assume you just read my comment wrong.....

so, please re-read my comment. I did not paint an entire group of people as "pigs", or for that matter, as anything at all. My comment was clear that I was referring specifically to the thug cops in the Sterling Brown incident.

And while some here have, I only wish that good, decent white people would express more outrage over these incidents.

[Jockey]

THIS.   What is troubling is Jockey has said in the past statements that disparage minority groups, but does the same thing here by broadly disparaging this group, police in this case.  Not sure he recognizes that he is doing what he chimes against, including his favorite guy in the WH that does this all the time and Jockey doing same thing.  Broad brush is wrong.

Simply wrong. I have not broadly disparaged all police in this thread. I have spoken specifically about a handful of thug cops.

[MU82]

Simply wrong. I have not broadly disparaged all police in this thread. I have spoken specifically about a handful of thug cops.

Just don't use "pigs" when talking about cops, brand.

If a black guy kills somebody, do you use the n-word? No you do not, because that would be disparaging an entire race even though you were referring to only one person.

"Pig" has become the cop version of the n-word. Just don't use it. You don't need to. There's no reason.

[Golden Avalanche]

Just don't use "pigs" when talking about cops, brand.

If a black guy kills somebody, do you use the n-word? No you do not, because that would be disparaging an entire race even though you were referring to only one person.

"Pig" has become the cop version of the n-word. Just don't use it. You don't need to. There's no reason.

That is quite a stretch.

[Jockey]

Just don't use "pigs" when talking about cops, brand.

If a black guy kills somebody, do you use the n-word? No you do not, because that would be disparaging an entire race even though you were referring to only one person.

"Pig" has become the cop version of the n-word. Just don't use it. You don't need to. There's no reason.

Thank you, Mike. I will take your advice. My point was to express anger and to try to make people angry. Your response has given me a good perspective about the use of certain words (and the differing perceptions of them) - just as I would expect from you.

But I did find a lot of humor in some of the responses. Some of those who accused me of attacking all police while continuing to support a man who is trying to tear down and de-legitimize law enforcement institutions in this country were quite fascinating.

[warriorchick]

That is quite a stretch.

It's a term that is offensive to a large plurality of the group of people to whom it refers.

If you think using offensive terms about other groups is unacceptable,  why would this be any different?

[MU82]

That is quite a stretch.

The general public does not consider "pig" as inflammatory as the n-word, true, so I can see why you'd call it a stretch.

But my point is that "pig" is an unnecessary label that doesn't advance the conversation. It is base name-calling. Maybe a better analogy would have been "f-a-g" - another word that brand would never use. Not as inflammatory as the n-word, but simply not acceptable or necessary.

brand is intelligent enough to make a point without resorting to "pig." We all are.

Again, due to semantics, we're getting away from the actual subject of the thread. The cops deserve severe punishment.

[WarriorDad]

Simply wrong. I have not broadly disparaged all police in this thread. I have spoken specifically about a handful of thug cops.

But you are doing exactly what you accuse some other powerful people of doing.  Your favorite politician can also say he was only talking about some MS13 or some people from certain countries, or some people from Mexico.  Do you not recognize this?  You are doing what he does.

[StillAWarrior]

That is quite a stretch.

I agree that is a stretch.

I think a more apt comparison would be the oft-criticized reference to young black men as "thugs."  It's a very loaded term, that carries a lot of baggage and suggest an underlying bias against young black men -- not just those being referenced.  Many bristle at the use of the term -- even if describing "thuggish" behavior -- because they think it has somewhat racial undertones.  In short, it is unproductive.

I think "pig" is similar because it carries a log of baggage.  It suggests an underlying bias against all police officers -- not just those being referenced.  Many bristle at the use of the term -- even if describing "piggish" behavior.  In short, as initially said by someone a few pages ago, it's unproductive.

What these cops did was disgusting.  They could rightfully be called thugs, criminals, bullies, a**holes or even animals.

[WarriorDad]

That is quite a stretch.

Not really.  It is a major pejorative with only negative connotations with the intent to slur.  To many great men, women that wear the uniform daily to slur all because of the actions of a few.

[Pakuni]

Not really.  It is a major pejorative with only negative connotations with the intent to slur.  To many great men, women that wear the uniform daily to slur all because of the actions of a few.

Yes, really. It's a massive stretch. (sorry, MU82).

"Pig" in reference to a police officer is a pejorative and has no place in civil discourse (it is acceptable when discussing bacon and similarly delicious meatstuffs, of course).

But it is nothing close to the 'N' word. And that's because "pig" is not used in the context of centuries of murder, slavery, abuse, discrimination, rape, assault and various other forms of oppression. Cops are not a downtrodden segment of society historically held back by the power structure. They are the power structure (or at least the primary tool of the power structure).

Again, it's an insult that's better left unsaid. But it's light years from the other word, and any comparison of the two is made in utter ignorance of history.