White Privilege at MU

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Y'all don't know what it's like being male, middle-class and white.

tell me about it.  from my upper class perch, I can't see the plebeians.

[Babybluejeans]

Thread seems to be on its way out so, for all you old farts, this is the talk of young folks. Worth watching the whole thing. Also, the song is as kick-ass as the video.

This is america. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY

[naginiF]

Y'all don't know what it's like being male, middle-class and white.

bought my tickets yesterday - if you've not seen him with your local symphony it's well worth whatever the ticket price is

Thread seems to be on its way out so, for all you old farts, this is the talk of young folks. Worth watching the whole thing. Also, the song is as kick-ass as the video.

This is america. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY

not all old farts are the same - this one loves him some Childish Gambino and that is a fantastic song/video

[theBabyDavid]

I don't know, but it is probably the fault of those damn, lazy firefighters.

Who said fire fighters are lazy? They do damned important work.

What's funny is there is a Marquette grad who just last week secured a $25MM capital raise to install stored energy systems into Alaska Native villages. These villages currently spend almost $1/kWH for power. This project will reduce that cost to less than $0.30/kWH.

I guess some of us put our education to work making combustion more efficient and practical. Others have an education but choose to spend their time learning out how to extinguish combustion.

There is a profound difference beteen the two. But thank God there are people willing to do both.

[theBabyDavid]

To give perspective, the typical Alaskan Native family living in an off-grid tribal community spends $1,000/head for power each month. That means a family of 5 spends about $60,000 a year for thermal and electrical energy.

Compelling new technologies are being deployed to rationalize the cost of energy while also reducing the impact of toxic emissions.

[theBabyDavid]

Gender is a social construct.

That is an opinion. Not a fact.

[Galway Eagle]

That is an opinion. Not a fact.

Just like the earth being round

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Who said fire fighters are lazy? They do damned important work.

Oh sorry, my bad.  I totally had you confused with the guy who said this stuff.

While you have been sitting in your firehouse

Now, don't get me wrong, as a fighter pilot, I was always comforted by the presence of those brave young men and women who stood at the ready on the flight line in their crash trucks. But I rather doubt that very many actually had college degrees because the job simply doesn't require it.

I presume you have a lot of free time between polishing the trucks

So, while some of us are making a real difference in clean power generation others have settled for less in life.

Fact is, your lack of professional intensity allows you more time to think about the subject though not really offering any meaningful insight.

Weird coincidence, though, that guy also claims to be into new energy technology.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Y'all don't know what it's like being male, middle-class and white.

Don't forget the burden of wearing a too tight sweater vest.

[Lennys Tap]

Just like the earth being round

An oblate ellipsoid, actually.

[WarriorDad]

To give perspective, the typical Alaskan Native family living in an off-grid tribal community spends $1,000/head for power each month. That means a family of 5 spends about $60,000 a year for thermal and electrical energy.

Compelling new technologies are being deployed to rationalize the cost of energy while also reducing the impact of toxic emissions.

Sounds like this will mean more people might move to Alaska, which I hope doesn't happen.  Love the place.  Making it too cozy will lead to some destruction of it as people move there and say it isn't so bad as costs come down.  Always a flip side of the story.

[WarriorDad]

Cheekz, no appreciation for taking the time to explain what a chicos is for you? So ungrateful. That cannot be tolerated. None of us should be tolerating that.

I wish I had a personal interpreter like the UN uses for their envoys to understand what you are saying.

[Billy Hoyle]

And yet Rachel Dolezal not only chose to be black but was hired to run the NAACP in Spokane while also teaching African American studies at a university.

No, she chose to "identify" as black.  One cannot choose to be a different race or ethnicity even if they fully immerse themselves in the traditions and ways of another race or ethnicity (anyone remember the Seinfeld episode where Elaine thought her boyfriend might be black?). African-Americans can be accused of "selling out" and "acting white" but in reality how they act will never overtake the way they look in the eyes of society. My buddy is a dentist, he's white but his last name causes patients to believe he's Korean. So, when they come in for the first time people say "oh, you don't look like I thought you would."

[buckchuckler]

Sex and gender are not synonymous.

Well,

From Websters...

a : sex, the feminine gender

Those are words that have always been synonyms.

[GGGG]

Well,

From Websters...

a : sex, the feminine gender

Those are words that have always been synonyms.

Actually words don't have static meanings, so they haven't "always" been synonyms.  The word "gender" was almost primarily about the masculine and feminine forms of nouns in languages rather than having anything to do with biological sex.  It didn't primarily become a synonym for sex until the 1900s.

Anyway, here is the current definition according to the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."

[muwarrior69]

Actually words don't have static meanings, so they haven't "always" been synonyms.  The word "gender" was almost primarily about the masculine and feminine forms of nouns in languages rather than having anything to do with biological sex.  It didn't primarily become a synonym for sex until the 1900s.

Anyway, here is the current definition according to the Oxford English Dictionary:

"Either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female."

So the word has no meaning or could mean whatever you want it to mean. When we cannot agree on the meaning of a word we lose all basis for having a discussion.

[GGGG]

So the word has no meaning or could mean whatever you want it to mean. When we cannot agree on the meaning of a word we lose all basis for having a discussion.

Uh...where did I say that a word "has no meaning or could mean whatever you want it to mean?"

What I said that the meanings of words change over time.  For instance, if I said "I am gay" today, it would mean something completely different than it did 100 years ago.  So the meaning of the word "gender" can change so it is different than "sex."

[muwarrior69]

Uh...where did I say that a word "has no meaning or could mean whatever you want it to mean?"

What I said that the meanings of words change over time.  For instance, if I said "I am gay" today, it would mean something completely different than it did 100 years ago.  So the meaning of the word "gender" can change so it is different than "sex."

I am so delighted that you are happy.

[Pakuni]

Well,

From Websters...

a : sex, the feminine gender

Those are words that have always been synonyms.

You accidentally forgot to include the full definition, the rest of which is
"the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex."

Your oversight is forgiven.

[forgetful]

Well,

From Websters...

a : sex, the feminine gender

Those are words that have always been synonyms.

The discussion brought up by the new incarnation of Keefe was in regards to science. 

In science (and sociology), gender and sex are not synonymous. 

Sex is defined genetically.  Typically Male (XY) and Female (XX) are defined by their chromosome arrangement.  Contrary to what Keefe implied, it is not a hard and fixed rule.  There are XX males, typically due to the presence of an active copy of the SRY gene that results in the formation of testes. 

They can also be XX-male and not have a functional copy of the SRY gene, but other mutations on the X chromosome.

It is even more complicated because XXY, and other chromosome arrangements do occur in nature. 

Gender on the other hand is by definition a social construct.  It is a construct that differentiates Masculine vs Feminine traits as defined by society. 

By people that are not scientists, the two words are often misconstrued, and used interchangeably, but scientifically they have distinct and separate meanings. 

And as science often does, our definition of sex has evolved as we have developed a better understanding of genetics.  Thus, sex is not a dichotomy, but a fluid continuum. 

Race on the other hand, as people have noted, can not be defined genetically, and is regarded in science as a sociological trait...like gender.

[21Jumpstreet]

Saw an interview with Kareem Abdul Jabar last night, and he was addressing this type of stuff and I thought he really made a good point. When issues like this are brought up he thought it important that those who bring it up not do so as if its an accusation and those being informed not receive it as an accusation. It was a very insightful point about how you deliver/receive a message being almost as important as the message itself.

Read the book Leadership and Self Deception or more simply start every conversation respecting the other person and being genuinely curious in what they have to say.

[theBabyDavid]

Sounds like this will mean more people might move to Alaska, which I hope doesn't happen.  Love the place.  Making it too cozy will lead to some destruction of it as people move there and say it isn't so bad as costs come down.  Always a flip side of the story.

Actually, we are focused on improving the quality of life for the thousands of off-the grid Alaska Natives who reside in ancestral communities. We are pivoting them from running old marine diesels 24 hours a day at >40% efficiency to stored energy systems combined with CoGen platforms fueled by H2-enriched CH4, C3H8 and even C12H23.     

Not only do we reduce the cost of thermal and electrical power by two thirds but we also slash emissions of GHG to almost negligible amounts - especially NOx, SOx, and CO.

The only place I can think white people might intrude would be some of the Chugach communities in the south. There are already lots of gweilo in the ARNC communities on the North Slope but they are there only to pull more hydrocarbons out of the earth.

[theBabyDavid]

No, she chose to "identify" as black.  One cannot choose to be a different race or ethnicity even if they fully immerse themselves in the traditions and ways of another race or ethnicity (anyone remember the Seinfeld episode where Elaine thought her boyfriend might be black?). African-Americans can be accused of "selling out" and "acting white" but in reality how they act will never overtake the way they look in the eyes of society. My buddy is a dentist, he's white but his last name causes patients to believe he's Korean. So, when they come in for the first time people say "oh, you don't look like I thought you would."

I am stymied by yet another profound contradiction of contemporary American society: If, as you say, one may choose to identify as being a member of another race why then is half the country outraged when a teenage girl in Utah buys a second hand cheongsam to wear to prom?

People who accept "racial identification" as a meritorious principle will turn around and fume and rage over a Caucasian wearing a dashiki, cheongsam, serape, fez, or kebaya.

Now I get that one must not wear a police uniform in an attempt to hoodwink the public but a teenage girl wearing a cheongsam is neither a crime nor an insult.

The misplaced outrage of many is not just absurd but dangerous to a free, democratic society.

[Galway Eagle]

I am stymied by yet another profound contradiction of contemporary American society: If, as you say, one may choose to identify as being a member of another race why then is half the country outraged when a teenage girl in Utah buys a second hand cheongsam to wear to prom?

People who accept "racial identification" as a meritorious principle will turn around and fume and rage over a Caucasian wearing a dashiki, cheongsam, serape, fez, or kebaya.

Now I get that one must not wear a police uniform in an attempt to hoodwink the public but a teenage girl wearing a cheongsam is neither a crime nor an insult.

The misplaced outrage of many is not just absurd but dangerous to a free, democratic society.

Saying half the country is a pretty broad stroke of the left. I think that is a vocal reactive group that wants everyone to be guilty of something.

[theBabyDavid]

The discussion brought up by the new incarnation of Keefe was in regards to science. 

In science (and sociology), gender and sex are not synonymous. 

Sex is defined genetically.  Typically Male (XY) and Female (XX) are defined by their chromosome arrangement.  Contrary to what Keefe implied, it is not a hard and fixed rule.  There are XX males, typically due to the presence of an active copy of the SRY gene that results in the formation of testes. 

They can also be XX-male and not have a functional copy of the SRY gene, but other mutations on the X chromosome.

It is even more complicated because XXY, and other chromosome arrangements do occur in nature. 

Gender on the other hand is by definition a social construct.  It is a construct that differentiates Masculine vs Feminine traits as defined by society. 

By people that are not scientists, the two words are often misconstrued, and used interchangeably, but scientifically they have distinct and separate meanings. 

And as science often does, our definition of sex has evolved as we have developed a better understanding of genetics.  Thus, sex is not a dichotomy, but a fluid continuum. 

Race on the other hand, as people have noted, can not be defined genetically, and is regarded in science as a sociological trait...like gender.

I defer to your actual expertise in genetics. My knowledge in that field does not extend much beyond knowing who Mendel was and how to use Punnett Squares!

I am, however, neighbors and friends with a Fred Hutch geneticist who was part of Lee Hartwell's Nobel-winning team.

Since we drink beer together I invoke the Scoop Rule of Competence which states that if one has  acquaintance (however slight) with an expert one then shares in the master's skill, proficiency, and accomplishment.