White Privilege at MU

[GooooMarquette]

That said, of course using "white privilege" synonymously with "racism" is stupid and counterproductive.

Agreed. Unfortunately, it often comes up during discussions of overtly racist incidents or situations, so it's easy to understand how many people would equate the two.

It's like the discussion TAMU and I had above about the concept of "safe spaces." If people mean places where open-minded people can come together and have a respectful discussion, then it's great. But I have also seen it used to describe places where white people aren't welcome.

[GGGG]

Agreed. Unfortunately, it often comes up during discussions of overtly racist incidents or situations, so it's easy to understand how many people would equate the two.

It's like the discussion TAMU and I had above about the concept of "safe spaces." If people mean places where open-minded people can come together and have a respectful discussion, then it's great. But I have also seen it used to describe places where white people aren't welcome.

Yes you are correct.  Safe spaces, as originally conceived, were literally places where people could go to be physically safe.  Mostly LGBTQ in the wake of the Mathew Shepard incident in the late 90s.

[muwarrior69]

Above is an example of why we can't have good things. We're having a conversation or debate and somebody comes on using some idiotic source as if it's authoritative.

Dreadlocks: this one was taken too far. They're not historical to just African culture

Shampoo: if it doesn't make business sense to carry a African American friendly shampoo due to the clientele I hardly blame hotels for not doing it. That being said they should have that option. Just like airlines have gluten free or vegetarian options.

Her being half black: who the hell are you to decide who or what culture a person is. I have a friend who's a quarter Mexican quarter Native American and half Italian. She embraces her Native American roots and identifies with that side of her heritage. Who the hell are you to say "you don't look that way so you aren't" that's no different than the old 1/8 blood rule from slave and him crow days.

Her voice: if it's not your style don't listen. 90% of country stars got record deals because they fit a look and can sing with a fake southern accent but you don't see lefties railing on them for being phony or whatever.

I agree with you, but tell that to Ms Barry who said this:
“We are biased in the direction of white skin color,” she elaborated. “So, even if you were talking to people of color...there’s ‘colorism’ that, like, the lightest-skinned ones are the most acceptable ones.”

Who the heck is she to speak for African Americans or anyone and say light skinned African Americans are the most acceptable ones. Perhaps she is revealing her own bias.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Who the heck is she

Who the heck are you?

See we can all do this.

[muwarrior69]

Who the heck are you?

See we can all do this.

Yes we can and it certainly does not further the discussion on improving race relations which I thought was the purpose of that campus meeting.

[theBabyDavid]

Now, Double Tree cookies ... That is privilege.

What theBabyDavid wants to know is do you reach for the Double Fudge Chocolate Chip or the White Chocolate with Macadamia Nuts??

[GGGG]

Yes we can and it certainly does not further the discussion on improving race relations which I thought was the purpose of that campus meeting.

If your point is that Marquette didn't handle the meeting 100% correctly, I would agree with you.

But that doesn't mean white privilege doesn't exist.

[Pakuni]

ESPN has a long story up today about Mike Tomlin that details  in questions of race. Here's a particularly compelling segment, IMO.

Talk to white players who play for a black coach and they will tell you that the color of their coach’s skin does not matter. Of course it doesn’t matter, why should it matter? It doesn’t matter one bit. Talk to African-American players who play for a black coach and they will tell you that the color of their coach’s skin matters deeply, powerfully, necessarily and unavoidably. Of course it matters, it has to matter, it’d better matter, you’re damn right it matters, because it matters, just for starters, to them.

And this is the insoluble paradox at the heart of the racial conversation in the United States, circa 2018: that white America speaks of race as a consideration to be transcended, and black America speaks of race as a force to be acknowledged; that white America believes that the purpose of talking about race is to one day end the conversation, and black America believes that the purpose of talking about race is to one day get the real conversation started.

http://theundefeated.com/features/mike-tomlin-pittsburgh-steelers-in-search-of-the-real-coach/

[warriorchick]

I agree with you, but tell that to Ms Barry who said this:
“We are biased in the direction of white skin color,” she elaborated. “So, even if you were talking to people of color...there’s ‘colorism’ that, like, the lightest-skinned ones are the most acceptable ones.”

Who the heck is she to speak for African Americans or anyone and say light skinned African Americans are the most acceptable ones. Perhaps she is revealing her own bias.

Who are you to say that it isn't true?  Spike Lee did an entire movie that had that subject as a major theme, School Daze. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Who are you to say that it isn't true?  Spike Lee did an entire movie that had that subject as a major theme, School Daze.

Malcolm Gladwell also wrote about the concept being a part of Jamaican culture.  I believe it was the last chapter in Outliers.

[Galway Eagle]

I agree with you, but tell that to Ms Barry who said this:
“We are biased in the direction of white skin color,” she elaborated. “So, even if you were talking to people of color...there’s ‘colorism’ that, like, the lightest-skinned ones are the most acceptable ones.”

Who the heck is she to speak for African Americans or anyone and say light skinned African Americans are the most acceptable ones. Perhaps she is revealing her own bias.

That's even ingrained in Africa from the days the Dutch went over and created different classes based on which Africans looked more European. So there's actual merit to that statement.

[mu03eng]

ESPN has a long story up today about Mike Tomlin that details  in questions of race. Here's a particularly compelling segment, IMO.

Talk to white players who play for a black coach and they will tell you that the color of their coach’s skin does not matter. Of course it doesn’t matter, why should it matter? It doesn’t matter one bit. Talk to African-American players who play for a black coach and they will tell you that the color of their coach’s skin matters deeply, powerfully, necessarily and unavoidably. Of course it matters, it has to matter, it’d better matter, you’re damn right it matters, because it matters, just for starters, to them.

And this is the insoluble paradox at the heart of the racial conversation in the United States, circa 2018: that white America speaks of race as a consideration to be transcended, and black America speaks of race as a force to be acknowledged; that white America believes that the purpose of talking about race is to one day end the conversation, and black America believes that the purpose of talking about race is to one day get the real conversation started.

http://theundefeated.com/features/mike-tomlin-pittsburgh-steelers-in-search-of-the-real-coach/

I think the only thing I struggle with in that piece is the concept of starting the real conversation. Even in my limited time on the planet, it feels like we've been "having a conversation" on race. If we haven't even to start to have the real conversation I'm gonna need a minute to rest up. If we were putting metrics on progress, do we even know what the real conversation is and what success looks like? I get the concept that the conversation is never over, it can't be because there is always something more that can be discussed, etc. but how do we even know if we're making progress if we don't have "an end point" to measure it?

[muwarrior69]

Who are you to say that it isn't true?  Spike Lee did an entire movie that had that subject as a major theme, School Daze.

Perhaps the exception to the rule.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/05/02/before-michelle-barack-obama-asked-another-woman-to-marry-him-then-politics-got-in-the-way/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.195a42ed00ee

[Jockey]

This is as good an example of WHITE PRIVILEGE as you will see.

According to the story in The Washington Post, here is how things went down:

Three young teen black boys shopped at your Brentwood, MO Nordstrom Rack, two of whom were looking for items for their prom. Employees followed them around the whole time, which they found unacceptable, so they left. One old white woman shopping at that same store had a problem with them being there...which becomes clear when they return to retrieve a hat one of them forgot (he'd taken it off to try on a shirt.) She assumed they were "bums"and shoplifting, and verbally assaulted them as they tried to pick up the hat.

“Now they’re confronted by an elderly white woman in the store who says to them, ‘Would your parents and grandparents be proud of what you’re doing?’ ” Pruitt said. The woman also referred to them as “a bunch of bums,” according to Pruitt.

The boys asked to see a manager, and were told by employees they could not. They left a second time. Once outside a manager flagged them down, and they returned and told him their problem. They have money to spend. They aren't bums. Manager invites them back in, they shop, get in line to pay. As they are paying for their items - paying for their items!!! - they hear an employee on the phone to the police reporting them for shoplifting.

In the meantime, old shriveled up racist Miss Daisy is waiting in line behind them, which is apparently unacceptable because Mr. Manager opens up another register just to check her out so she can leave. He also takes the trouble to walk her to her car. Don't worry. I'm gonna get back to that.

The three kids go outside, wait for the police to arrive, and when they do, show the cops their purchases, their receipts, and the cops say they are free to go.

Story gets press, Nordstrom brings in boys and their families to apologize, and promise new training for employees. Of course, their *policy* is not to have employees call the police unless it's an emergency, and in this case, the employee did not adhere to the policy. The boys would like the situation resolved by Nordstrom doing good deeds for other kids. Because they are good people despite the fact that white people are trash to them 24/7. is as good a definition of WHITE PRIVILEGE as you will ever see.

[Jockey]

Perhaps the exception to the rule.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/05/02/before-michelle-barack-obama-asked-another-woman-to-marry-him-then-politics-got-in-the-way/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.195a42ed00ee

I was wondering who would be the first to feel the need to bring drag Mr. Obama into the conversation.

There were only 2 choices in my mind - you or surgeon. You two never, ever disappoint when the conversation turns to race.

[StillAWarrior]

This is as good an example of WHITE PRIVILEGE as you will see.

A personal example of white privilege...from the other side (i.e., focusing more on the "privilege" part).

A couple of years ago, my wife and I were in another city for a day trip.  We had several hours to kill downtown while we waited for our daughter and her friends.  We'd already eaten dinner, the stores were closed, and we were trying to figure out how to spend the time.  We could have gone to a bar, I suppose, but that's not really our scene.  So, we went to a Hilton and sat in the lobby for 2.5 hours and watched Golden State play Oklahoma City.  We weren't guests at the hotel, and didn't buy anything in the bar nearby.  Even as we were sitting there watching the game, I was aware of the fact that we probably could not have gotten away with that if we were not white (or if we looked "poor," I suppose).  I strongly suspect we'd have been approached and asked if we were guests at the hotel.  This has stood out to me as an example of white privilege.

[muwarrior69]

I was wondering who would be the first to feel the need to bring drag Mr. Obama into the conversation.

There were only 2 choices in my mind - you or surgeon. You two never, ever disappoint when the conversation turns to race.

I thought we were discussing white privilege not race where the incident with our former president seemed to run counter to white privilege or where whiteness is more acceptable..

[mu03eng]

This is as good an example of WHITE PRIVILEGE as you will see.

According to the story in The Washington Post, here is how things went down:

Three young teen black boys shopped at your Brentwood, MO Nordstrom Rack, two of whom were looking for items for their prom. Employees followed them around the whole time, which they found unacceptable, so they left. One old white woman shopping at that same store had a problem with them being there...which becomes clear when they return to retrieve a hat one of them forgot (he'd taken it off to try on a shirt.) She assumed they were "bums"and shoplifting, and verbally assaulted them as they tried to pick up the hat.

“Now they’re confronted by an elderly white woman in the store who says to them, ‘Would your parents and grandparents be proud of what you’re doing?’ ” Pruitt said. The woman also referred to them as “a bunch of bums,” according to Pruitt.

The boys asked to see a manager, and were told by employees they could not. They left a second time. Once outside a manager flagged them down, and they returned and told him their problem. They have money to spend. They aren't bums. Manager invites them back in, they shop, get in line to pay. As they are paying for their items - paying for their items!!! - they hear an employee on the phone to the police reporting them for shoplifting.

In the meantime, old shriveled up racist Miss Daisy is waiting in line behind them, which is apparently unacceptable because Mr. Manager opens up another register just to check her out so she can leave. He also takes the trouble to walk her to her car. Don't worry. I'm gonna get back to that.

The three kids go outside, wait for the police to arrive, and when they do, show the cops their purchases, their receipts, and the cops say they are free to go.

Story gets press, Nordstrom brings in boys and their families to apologize, and promise new training for employees. Of course, their *policy* is not to have employees call the police unless it's an emergency, and in this case, the employee did not adhere to the policy. The boys would like the situation resolved by Nordstrom doing good deeds for other kids. Because they are good people despite the fact that white people are trash to them 24/7. is as good a definition of WHITE PRIVILEGE as you will ever see.

Not to get technical on you, but that's actually a demonstration of racism and/or situational bias, not privilege. White privilege would actually be that if the three kids were white they wouldn't have to have that experience. Those kids, based on the story, handled themselves admirably but that shouldn't be the default because white kids wouldn't have to worry about handling that situation.

[Pakuni]

I thought we were discussing white privilege not race where the incident with our former president seemed to run counter to white privilege.

Who knew muwarrior69 viewed having a romantic relationship with Barack Obama as such a privilege.

I don't think what you cited is an example of any kind of privilege. But that said, if your position is that one example where being white is disadvantageous proves there's no such thing as white privilege, that's a bad take.

[Galway Eagle]

Perhaps the exception to the rule.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/05/02/before-michelle-barack-obama-asked-another-woman-to-marry-him-then-politics-got-in-the-way/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.195a42ed00ee

What is your point here? She was mixed race. He's mixed race. It doesn't really relate to white priveledge or the color of ones skin being more acceptable

[muwarrior69]

What is your point here? She was mixed race. He's mixed race. It doesn't really relate to white priveledge or the color of ones skin being more acceptable

The article states the she was a political liability in furthering his political ambitions and would not have been acceptable in the black community. I thought Ms. Barry stated that increased degrees of whiteness even in the colored communities were considered more acceptable. I would hope in 2018 that the color of ones spouse would not factor into ones political aspirations but if Ms Barry is correct, a minority candidate would be in a more advantageous position and acceptable with a spouse who is more white even in districts where the minority is in the majority.

Now if I am conflating race, racial bias and white privilege maybe I am. Trying to separate race and racism from white privilege is like trying to separate or eliminate the sound of a good song from its melody, it can't be done.

[4everwarriors]

Tyme ta lock dis sob two, aina?

[theBabyDavid]

Tyme ta lock dis sob two, aina?

Smells like a political discussion to me.

[Herman Cain]

Tyme ta lock dis sob two, aina?

Before the lock I just want to throw my two cents in.

My philosophy in life is to make the best of the situation I am in. I had no choice in the matter and was not born white. 

Rather than use my minority circumstance as an excuse, I did everything in my power to avoid the stereo types that people associate with people of my race. That is not to say I have not been pulled over for driving while black , asked why I was in  a hotel bar watching a sporting event ( can I help you sir lol?) or endured countless jokes about p+7%4is  size( it gets old after a while especially when you want to be noted for the size of your brain instead) . I just moved on and tried to make myself a better person.  I am probably in the minority ( no pun intended) who take this live and let live approach but it has served me well. At the end of the day I built my business without things like minority set asides and never asked for one. I wish more  in my community would take the up from the boot straps approach I did. 

I can't really speak to what MU should and shouldn't do. The environment is so polarized they are criticized either way. I do wish Lovell had more backbone, I am sure he is trying his best but would be delighted if he didn't cave so quickly.

[brewcity77]

By and large this discussion has been perfectly acceptable and kept from being political. Seems some people want to turn that tide now. Let's keep it to the topic at hand, which is white privilege and tangentially how it relates to Marquette, rather than diving down a political rabbit hole.