Wojo's Leash

[Spotcheck Billy]

Both Dean Smith and Coach K were burned in effigy on their respective campuses in their early years.

For now R-E-L-A-X.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'm kind of surprised he hasn't resurfaced here under an assumed name.  That shows more self-restraint than I thought possible.

Maybe not Ners, but this thread has a definite Texas Western type feel to it.

[1SE]

I do not believe he has underperformed.   I looked at last year's talent and predicted 10-14 wins.   I thought he squeezed ever bit he could have out of that team.  I looked at this year's team and saw 17 wins, with progress, as to accept as a given the notion that freshmen and a few guys left from a bad team is going to magically morph into world beaters is simply unreasonable.   

Yes, I understand that if you set low expectations you aren't going to be disappointed.  I also at no point have said I expect this team to be world beaters.  I do expect them to be on the bubble (so either in the NCAA or well-situated in the NIT).  That could (and hopefully) will still happen.  I'm just saying IF that doesn't happen (and these first two games have been shaky enough - in terms of coaching - for that to be a legitimate worry), that fan base should be reasonably agitated.  I also hope Wojo is thinking that if that doesn't happen the fan base will be reasonably agitated.  E.g. his "leash" is tight enough in that we get to the post-season or the seat starts to become warm.   

[tower912]

Realistic expectations.   Not low.   Looking at the sizes, abilities, experience of the players and trying to figure out what you would predict if it didn't say Marquette on the jersey.    And if I looked at any other high major team returning 4 players off of a bad team, one transfer who never played at his old high major school, and a top 10 class, I would be generous to predict more than a 17-15 season.    Unless the coach is a different maker and there are precious few of them.  Wojo will be fine, but he can't yet spin gold out of straw.  Next year. 

[Marcus92]

Reasons to be optimistic:

As a point guard at Duke, Wojo was known as a leader, hard worker and consummate team player. He made the absolute most of his limited ability, being named Defensive Player of the Year and honorable mention All-American. Sounds like a pretty good mindset and resume for a head coach.

Wojo served for 15 years on the coaching staff at Duke, one of college basketball's top 5 programs, alongside a head coach who belongs on the sport's Mount Rushmore. This guy knows what coaching at the highest level is all about.

While at Duke, Wojo coached the front court players. This includes Jabari Parker and Mason Plumlee (both 1st round NBA draft picks). This suggests he understands how to help players at any position, not just guard.

Oh yeah, he was also on the coaching staff of 2 Olympic gold medal teams. Teams that included Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant and Chris Paul, among others. He's worked with the best basketball players in the world.

Even with all that experience, he's still young — just 39. His best days as a head coach are ahead of him.

He hit the ground running at Marquette, landing a Top 10 recruiting class in his very first season. You can't win without talent. So at least that part of the equation seems to be set.

Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future results. Great assistants don't automatically make great head coaches. But I'm definitely excited about where Marquette basketball is headed.

BTW, that same head coach at Duke went 38-47 in his first 3 seasons there. No NCAA appearances. Best finish in the ACC: 5th. In fact, he didn't make the Big Dance until his 9th season as a head coach.

[MerrittsMustache]

Exactly.  Despite the immediate dumpster fire created by Buzz, Wojo inherited an incredibly well-respected, well-finances program sitting on over a decade of recent success.  He did not come to DePaul.  He did not come to MU circa 1964 with a team that had only been to 5 post-seasons in the previous 15 years. There is no reason why Marquette should be a 4-year rebuilding project which is what the ole' sages here seem to want to grant.

Being at "an incredibly well-respected, well-finances program sitting on over a decade of recent success" doesn't mean much when a coach takes over an "immediate dumpster fire" created by the previous coach.

Last year's team had no BE-caliber PG, one big man (who was coming off an injury and wasn't even eligible until the ninth game), a post-grad volume scorer, an undersized frosh shooting guard, a rebounder with bad knees, a frosh shooter, an underachieving soph, Juan Anderson, and two guys who transferred out. In summary, Wojo didn't have many pieces in place who were going to help the program going forward. Last season was ugly, but what exactly were you expecting from that group?

This year, the team added 5 freshmen and a transfer who has 62 minutes of D1 experience. Yes, the recruiting class is as good a class at MU in a long, long time...but they're still freshmen. Ideally, most of them would be role players seeing 8-12 minutes a game. Instead, they're playing big minutes, ready or not. There are going to be a lot of ups and downs with a team like that but, at season's end, you hope to see overall improvement heading into next season.

Turning around a "dumpster fire" isn't a 1-2 year process.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes, I understand that if you set low expectations you aren't going to be disappointed.  I also at no point have said I expect this team to be world beaters.  I do expect them to be on the bubble (so either in the NCAA or well-situated in the NIT).  That could (and hopefully) will still happen.  I'm just saying IF that doesn't happen (and these first two games have been shaky enough - in terms of coaching - for that to be a legitimate worry), that fan base should be reasonably agitated.  I also hope Wojo is thinking that if that doesn't happen the fan base will be reasonably agitated.  E.g. his "leash" is tight enough in that we get to the post-season or the seat starts to become warm.   

Wojo shouldn't give two sh!ts about the fanbase's level of agitation.

[GGGG]

Texas Western showed up on the game chat the other night. Did ners actually say that about needing him on that wall?

No.  I was just providing context.

[dgies9156]

Stop, just stop.

The: year before Al arrived MU was 5-21. His trajectory from season #1 was straight up:

Year 1 : 8 wins (+60%)

Year 2 : 14 wins (+75%)

Year 3 : 21 wins (+50%)

Year 4 -13 : Seashells and Balloons


Wojo so far:

Year 1 : 13 wins (-23.5%)

Way too early to judge Wojo, but any suggestion a) that Scoopers would have been disappointed with Al's immediate turning around of the program or b) Wojo's start looks anything like Al's are fiction.

Lenny:

You can play with statistics all you want to, but here are the facts:

1) The team was so bad the year before Al came that we fired our head coach. Al was playing with crap. So was Wojo. Plus, Wojo had only eight guys to work with in an era that was far different than anything Al coached in. We forget quickly how depleted our bench was last year and how several teams beat us by wearing us down.

Trust me, I try to forget last year as much as I can. It keeps sneaking into my nightmares more than I would like.

2) Al went and recruited his first five-star, George Thompson, just as Wojo did in Henry Ellenson. The jury is still out on what Wojo does with Henry but you do not put the guy on a short leash over two games, one of which was not won! There's a lot of coaching and work left to be done on Henry.

3) As Al once said, "the best thing about freshmen is they become sophomores!"

4) If the Internet existed in 1967 and the team had the following it does today, YES, AL WOULD BE ON THE HOT SEAT WITH THE SCOOP CROWD. I don't want to think what this group would have done when we went to the NIT (even though, in those days, the NIT title meant something bigger than today). This group would have roasted Al on a spit on Wisconsin Avenue many times over!

[1SE]

Reasons to be optimistic:

Listen - I want to be optimistic - I really do.  I sat through all of last season listening to the reasons to be optimistic.  One of the biggest was "wait until next year, when he has his guys, when they're in his system".  I guess this is why I posted this after only two games.  It does not sound like there "structural break" from last year - same shoddy defense, same poor decision making.  Why aren't "Wojo's guys" playing like "Wojo's guys"?  A concern is that maybe last year they were playing like "Wojo's guys" and this is his brand of ball.  I realize that nothing would indicate that SHOULD be his brand of ball but what happens on the court speaks for itself.  Maybe we see "Brand Wojo" by season's end - I hope so.  But if that doesn't happen let's put him on the seat eh?

[1SE]

Wojo shouldn't give two sh!ts about the fanbase's level of agitation.

Are you kidding?  What pays his salary?  What supports the program.  This isn't some abstract purist pursuit - this a business.  If your shareholders aren't happy you get a new CEO!

[mu-rara]

Just don't want him to be majerus 2.0 where all the tremendous success comes after his time here.

Amen.

[MerrittsMustache]

Are you kidding?  What pays his salary?  What supports the program.  This isn't some abstract purist pursuit - this a business.  If your shareholders aren't happy you get a new CEO!

If shareholders were as impatient and irrational as fans, there would be a lot more CEO turnover.

[1SE]

To clarify.  NOT saying Wojo should be fired now (even if that were realistic.  NOT saying Wojo's seat is even warm now.  AM saying that if we miss the post season this year his seat SHOULD be warm.  AM saying that given the very small sample of these first two games missing the post-season doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.  That's it!

That being said - beat Iowa and all's forgiven. 

[1SE]

Jaysus - how much more trolling do I have to do to get beyond "walk on"?

[MerrittsMustache]

To clarify.  NOT saying Wojo should be fired now (even if that were realistic.  NOT saying Wojo's seat is even warm now.  AM saying that if we miss the post season this year his seat SHOULD be warm.  AM saying that given the very small sample of these first two games missing the post-season doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.  That's it!

That being said - beat Iowa and all's forgiven. 

That might be what you're saying, but what it sounds like is "I'm an impatient, irrational fan who wants a bad, talent-deprived team turned into a sure-fire Tourney team in 20 months and 1 recruiting class or else the coach should be concerned about his job status."

[mu-rara]

I guarantee Coach Pitino or Izzo would have our current  team playing at a very high level. Look at Coach Izzo last year , he took a team only slightly more talented than ours to the final four. The biggest disappointment is the defense. Considering Coach Wojos background I thought that would be our strength .

Beat Iowa and all is forgiven .....for a while at least

50 years of coaching experience.  Not a good comparison.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

That being said - beat Iowa and all's forgiven. 

Maybe you should watch this one

[brandx]

Ah yes.  So why this silly thread is going on perhaps you, me, chick, brandx, mu82, rocket and willie should go argue poiltics for awhile.  We'll accomplish more.   

C'mon, Glow. It's good to have basketball back so I can spend most of the time here.

[mu-rara]

I never cease to be amazed at the level of stupidity of some posts on Scoop. This topic is one of them.

Look, I'm a perpetual optimist and even I didn't think we were going to be a Top 5 school with a 1 or 2 seed and a legitimate shot at a national title. But if I read some of these posts in here, there is utter disgust that we have growing pains and that our freshman-laden team isn't 2-0, heavily favored against Iowa and ranked.

It has been noted before that God only knows what would have happened if Scoop existed when Al was head coach here. Yikes!

Be patient folks. I promise Wojo will make more mistakes. I promise our freshmen will look like, well, freshmen. We're not Duke (yet) and Coach Wojo is not Coach K (yet). Give him time. He deserves the same chance Al got.

Al would reach into the computer and punch the idiot.

[rocky_warrior]

Jaysus - how much more trolling do I have to do to get beyond "walk on"?

You're only at 26 posts!  Hell Chicos and Sultan could do that in an hour or less.

[jesmu84]

Yes, I understand that if you set low expectations you aren't going to be disappointed.  I also at no point have said I expect this team to be world beaters.  I do expect them to be on the bubble (so either in the NCAA or well-situated in the NIT).  That could (and hopefully) will still happen.  I'm just saying IF that doesn't happen (and these first two games have been shaky enough - in terms of coaching - for that to be a legitimate worry), that fan base should be reasonably agitated.  I also hope Wojo is thinking that if that doesn't happen the fan base will be reasonably agitated.  E.g. his "leash" is tight enough in that we get to the post-season or the seat starts to become warm.   

What, exactly, about this roster makes you think they should be on the bubble? Any historic comparisons?

Give him 4 years. Unless he does something illegal/NCAA-illegal.

Organizations that have continuity tend to have continued success. Look at the packers, steelers, etc. A long term plan is necessary. Turning over coaches frequently is rarely a recipe for success.

[mu-rara]

Are you kidding?  What pays his salary?  What supports the program.  This isn't some abstract purist pursuit - this a business.  If your shareholders aren't happy you get a new CEO!

I think most MU fans have a better understanding of what it takes to build success.

[warriorchick]

AMEN. I would like Wojo to work out as well, but quite frankly, I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired.

We've only been a bad team for 2 years.  It's too early to tell regarding this season.  Have some patience, FFS.

Do you realize how spoiled we have been as fans?

[keefe]

It should be noted we probably would've won a couple more if Carlino hadn't had a concussion.

And we would have been in the NCAA Tournament if we had one of either Dean Meminger, Lloyd Walton, or Sam Worthen at the point.