ORD Expansion/Modernization

[jficke13]

I flew out of Norfolk, VA a few years ago. I was the ONLY person in TSA, ONLY person in the gate, ONLY person in the bar (outside of the bartender), it was disconcerting, but easy as hell.

[Benny B]

My home airport of RST is like that...and it's a thing of beauty when it works.  I live about 5 minutes away, and once left home 20 minutes before an on-time departure...and still made the flight with time to spare.  And when I get back after a long day of traveling, I'm home about 10 minutes after we get to the gate.

But there are plenty of downsides.  If your flight out is delayed, there is NOTHING to do.  You have to change planes to get anywhere other than MSP, DTW, ORD and ATL.  And the little planes they fly here are always the first canceled when the weather gets sketchy at a hub, so I have spent many nights in a hub city due to cancellations, or ridden many shuttle buses to MSP to catch a later flight to my destination.

Interestingly, my worst experience was in Miami too.  I lived in Chicago at the time and had a convenient nonstop from ORD to MIA.  We flew after work so it was about 10pm when we got there.  We figured we'd get out quickly at that time of the night, so had made reservations about halfway down the keys, figuring we'd get there by midnight.  But we got to the car rental counter and they were out of rental cars even though we had a reservation.  Several people were ahead of us already waiting, so we ended up having to wait a few hours until a car arrived and we got out.  Needless to say, we were kinda tired when we got to our hotel around 4 am.

God, I hate MIA.

Just 5 minutes from RST?   Geez, if you open your front door, do you hear banjos?

[mr.MUskie]

That HK train thing sounds pretty slick.

Yes it is.

[dgies9156]

I'm a 1K on United and am in ORD about once every other week going somewhere.

The clean-up of Sh*tbox Palace (Terminal 2) will be a good thing. I am concerned through that the Satellite Terminals will be in JoDavies County based on the original drawings.

For us unprofitable domestic passengers, who are treated like cattle anyway. MOOOOOOOOOO! The sad thing is that this is all about international passengers. The Terminal 2 international piece impresses me as totally unnecessary.

What I don't see are taxiways. If your flight has the misfortune to land on 28R (the most northerly of the east west runways), your taxi to the gate is about 20 minutes, no matter what airline you are on.  You follow a conga line of jets around the hangars, by the flight kitchens and finally to the gate. It's ridiculous.

I agree with  Sister Chick that the biggest problem is the amount of graft and outright corruption that will go on with this large of a project. It is inevitable that if the project is budgeted for $8.5 billion, it will cost $12 billion after  you factor in the incompetence, theft and hangers-on who will insist o their piece of the pie. Just ask Poolboy.

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree with  Sister Chick that the biggest problem is the amount of graft and outright corruption that will go on with this large of a project. It is inevitable that if the project is budgeted for $8.5 billion, it will cost $12 billion after  you factor in the incompetence, theft and hangers-on who will insist o their piece of the pie. Just ask Poolboy.

Ever see "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?



Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane, who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?)  The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.

One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovered Indian burial ground while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) despite public protests.  They feared it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal even more money.  They kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his life as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams as dirt was dumped on him.  Finally, they had a scene where their construction dumped toxins in Elk Grove/Bensenville's water supply and they showed how Kane paid off the Mayor of Bensenville and they manipulated and threated the press to keep this quiet. 

The show was filmed in Chicago and all the writers were from Chicago and they took great pains to use real-life issues.  In 2010/2011 (when the show was conceived) Daley's original O'Hare expansion was a big topic.

Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show.  Because this is how it really works.

[warriorchick]

What I don't see are taxiways. If your flight has the misfortune to land on 28R (the most northerly of the east west runways), your taxi to the gate is about 20 minutes, no matter what airline you are on.  You follow a conga line of jets around the hangars, by the flight kitchens and finally to the gate. It's ridiculous.

Not to mention the walk from the front door from the terminal to your actual gate.  I had a flight on United to Detroit once where my gate was at the one end of the far concourse, the one where you you have to walk through the disco tunnel and then you are just getting started on your hike.  While we waited to board, my co-worker remarked about the great fare we got.  I replied, "That's because they make you walk halfway to Detroit before you even get on the plane".

And by the way, where's terminal 4?  I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.

[warriorchick]

Ever see the TV "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?



Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?)  The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.

One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovred Indian burial while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) ground despite public protests because it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal more money and kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his like as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams for life as dirt was dumped on him.

Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show.  Because this is how it really works.

That was based on a true story.  There was an old  cemetery in the way of the most recent expansion.  They had knocked down the church that the cemetery belonged to in the original construction of the airport, and at the time,  the city promised the church members that the cemetery would remain undisturbed. And, yup, they dug up those bodies and put them in another place, because progress.  In true Chicago fashion, the managed to spend $17 million in the process, or  about $12,000 per grave.  That's not counting a decade of legal fees beforehand.

[GooooMarquette]

Just 5 minutes from RST?   Geez, if you open your front door, do you hear banjos?

Ha!

Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion.  Beautiful area.  But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.

When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield.  They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.

[nyg]

Ha!

Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion.  Beautiful area.  But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.

When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield.  They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.

Like I said earlier in this thread, I went to Alden, Mn and it was well, remote and cannot fathom living there. 
You were right about airport, quickest lines in the country. 

[NorthernDancerColt]

Ever see "Boss" starring Kelsey Grammar?



Grammar played the Mayor of Chicago, with an Irish name, Tom Kane, who was entering his 22nd year in office (gee, wonder who that is modeled after?)  The show ran 2 seasons in 2011 and 2012.

One of the themes through the show was O'hare expansion and how the Kane administration worked to steal money, literally plowed under a discovered Indian burial ground while building the western terminal (yes the show got that detailed about this) despite public protests.  They feared it would stop construction and they would lose opportunities to steal even more money.  They kidnapped a corruption exposing whistleblower had a powerful scene of him begging for his life as a backhoe dug a hole and they buried him alive as you heard his final screams as dirt was dumped on him.  Finally, they had a scene where their construction dumped toxins in Elk Grove/Bensenville's water supply and they showed how Kane paid off the Mayor of Bensenville and they manipulated and threated the press to keep this quiet. 

The show was filmed in Chicago and all the writers were from Chicago and they took great pains to use real-life issues.  In 2010/2011 (when the show was conceived) Daley's original O'Hare expansion was a big topic.

Everyone that thinks O'hare expansion is a good idea should watch this show.  Because this is how it really works.

Ironically, Richard J. Daley originally supported a downstater, Clyde Choate, for House Speaker, a position which lacked the influence and cache of today. After then ill-fated governor Dan Walker objected to Choate, the Democrats chose a compromise candidate in Marquette alum Bill Redmond of Bensenville. O'Hare projects benefited from Redmond's penchant for avoiding conflict and deferring to Hizzoner. After Redmond, another ill-fated Illinois pol, (R) George Ryan,  had a stint as Speaker, but Mike Madigan was being groomed by RJD to begin a decades-long stranglehold on the Speakership as soon as  the Democrats retook the House majority.

[Benny B]

Ha!

Funny thing is that I'm in a nice neighborhood within the city limits (very southwestern edge), and just a few blocks from the old Mayowood Mansion.  Beautiful area.  But I drive two minutes south and I'm surrounded by cornfields, and next thing you know I'm at the airport.

When people I know are flying in to RST for the first time, I warn them that this very literally is the proverbial airport in the middle of the cornfield.  They chuckle as though they think I'm exaggerating...but soon realize I wasn't kidding.

We always referred to RST as Stewartville Int'l... guessing that never caught on.

[LloydsLegs]

Not to mention the walk from the front door from the terminal to your actual gate.  I had a flight on United to Detroit once where my gate was at the one end of the far concourse, the one where you you have to walk through the disco tunnel and then you are just getting started on your hike.  While we waited to board, my co-worker remarked about the great fare we got.  I replied, "That's because they make you walk halfway to Detroit before you even get on the plane".

And by the way, where's terminal 4? I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.

WBEZ did a curious City answering this - you can sign up for the podcast or look in the WBEZ archives for it- funny story:

https://www.wbez.org/shows/curious-city/ohares-ghost-whatever-happened-to-terminal-4/435a5763-6693-49a6-8cae-24bfcaf40aa9

[GooooMarquette]

We always referred to RST as Stewartville Int'l... guessing that never caught on.

l

Never heard that one!

[🏀]

And by the way, where's terminal 4?  I bet if you look on the books, Chicago actually paid someone to build it at some point.

Someone was paid for Terminal 4, because it did exist. Hilarious.

[Benny B]

Terminal 4 is still at ORD; it's just not called Terminal 4 anymore... it's the bus/shuttle center in the parking garage. 

Which is apropos considering that if you were taking an int'l flight from T4 back in the day, after you checked in, you had to take a bus to the plane.

[dgies9156]

Terminal 4 is still at ORD; it's just not called Terminal 4 anymore... it's the bus/shuttle center in the parking garage. 

Which is apropos considering that if you were taking an int'l flight from T4 back in the day, after you checked in, you had to take a bus to the plane.

Yes, I used that hellhole a few times.

The "new" international terminal actually is quite pleasant. But it is a long people-mover ride from Terminal 5 to United Terminal 1. And if you arrive on United or American and are connecting onward, you have to re-clear security at Domestic Terminal 1 or 3, which United and American don't like.

What I am bothered about with this international expansion is the notion that "build it and they will come." Given Illinois' economic and political woes, can anyone legitimately imagine that there is dramatically more demand for air service into and out of ORD than there is today? 

I'm unnerved a bit by the fact that in many communities to where I travel, goofy locals tend to badly overbuild airports in lure of traffic and larger jets that never materialize.

Incidentally Chick, it seems like every time I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I somehow end up with a flight parked at C29 at United, even though there is about 50 or so gates open. It's how I get my exercise!

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes, I used that hellhole a few times.

The "new" international terminal actually is quite pleasant. But it is a long people-mover ride from Terminal 5 to United Terminal 1. And if you arrive on United or American and are connecting onward, you have to re-clear security at Domestic Terminal 1 or 3, which United and American don't like.

What I am bothered about with this international expansion is the notion that "build it and they will come." Given Illinois' economic and political woes, can anyone legitimately imagine that there is dramatically more demand for air service into and out of ORD than there is today? 

I'm unnerved a bit by the fact that in many communities to where I travel, goofy locals tend to badly overbuild airports in lure of traffic and larger jets that never materialize.

Incidentally Chick, it seems like every time I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I somehow end up with a flight parked at C29 at United, even though there is about 50 or so gates open. It's how I get my exercise!

There is a huge demand for international flights into/out of  O’hare.

It’s not about Chicagoans going to far flung places, it’s about getting international passengers to a major hub in the center of the country so the can easily connect to their final destination.  It’s about making it easy for Americans anywhere in the country to connect through O’hare to get to their international location.

Right now terminal 5 is such a bad design (being so far away and having to go through security again) that Chicago is losing out.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Don't overlook the fact ORD is one of the largest US airports for cargo shipments, is the expansion possibly related to that in some way?

[rocky_warrior]

The HK airport train is probably the most convenient airport train in the world.

Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security. 

[jsglow]

Actually I don't like the Denver airport at all.  It's too far out of town if you are flying there.  Switching planes there is fine if your gates are close.  Otherwise you're walking miles to get anywhere.

Denver's darn tough.  Fine as a transfer but I'm pretty sure it's actually in Nebraska!

[jsglow]

Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security.

News to me and a big step in the right direction.

[GooooMarquette]

Y'all need to try the new DEN train to/from downtown. Drops you off an escalator ride from security.

Sounds like the light rail stop at MSP.

[Herman Cain]

It's one of the options.

Just curious, where would you live if you moved to the Milwaukee Area? There are lots of nice places available.

[warriorchick]

Just curious, where would you live if you moved to the Milwaukee Area? There are lots of nice places available.

Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Not sure. Part of me would love to live in the 3rd Ward, but then again, They are putting up some pretty nice lakeside condos in Oconomowoc.

Just had dinner in the 3rd Ward tonight.  I drove through the Ward this afternoon and noticed all the new contemporary luxury apartment buildings just outside the Summerfest gates