Golf 2021

[Uncle Rico]

Do they have steroid testing on the pga tour?  Excuse my ignorance.

I don’t believe so

[JWags85]

So by your logic Sosa and McGuire’s juicing should be ignored because it made the game fun?

And you have to concede that Tiger  (who I actively rooted against during his domination) is paying the long-term price for all the HGH and juicing he did. He’s got the spine of an 80 year old guy.

If you actively rooted against Tiger, fair play and that’s more justifiable. I just see plenty of people hating on Bryson and his distance or making steroid cracks, but they are giddy Tiger fanboys who were delighted to rave marvel at “Tiger-proofing” and gleefully at how powerful his swing was. And those people are obnoxious hypocrites

[Jables1604]

If you actively rooted against Tiger, fair play and that’s more justifiable. I just see plenty of people hating on Bryson and his distance or making steroid cracks, but they are giddy Tiger fanboys who were delighted to rave marvel at “Tiger-proofing” and gleefully at how powerful his swing was. And those people are obnoxious hypocrites

To be completely honest, my dislike of Tiger had little to do with his game. I actually loved to root for him when he broke into the professional game.

But then he became a robot. Canned responses. Trying to control who could and couldn’t interview him.

I get that the guy was living under a microscope and was under tremendous pressure. But almost all of the other guys on tour were living event or event and trying to keep their card every year. At least pretend like you appreciate all of the adulation you get. Mickelson at least acted like he was having fun. He at least acknowledged the crowd.

That’s why I actually started to take interest in Tiger’s second act. He actually seemed like he was getting some pleasure out of competing again.

And for the record, I have an acquaintance who plays on the PGA Tour who said that Tiger is actually a decent guy and that Mickelson (with the exception of Patrick Reed) is the biggest jackass on tour and almost universally disliked by other players.

[🏀]

Do they have steroid testing on the pga tour?  Excuse my ignorance.

No, they don’t even test drivers like they’re supposed to.

[JWags85]

To be completely honest, my dislike of Tiger had little to do with his game. I actually loved to root for him when he broke into the professional game.

But then he became a robot. Canned responses. Trying to control who could and couldn’t interview him.

I get that the guy was living under a microscope and was under tremendous pressure. But almost all of the other guys on tour were living event or event and trying to keep their card every year. At least pretend like you appreciate all of the adulation you get. Mickelson at least acted like he was having fun. He at least acknowledged the crowd.

That’s why I actually started to take interest in Tiger’s second act. He actually seemed like he was getting some pleasure out of competing again.

And for the record, I have an acquaintance who plays on the PGA Tour who said that Tiger is actually a decent guy and that Mickelson (with the exception of Patrick Reed) is the biggest jackass on tour and almost universally disliked by other players.

I completely agree with you actually.  Had Tiger gear and loved watching him all through the late 90s and early 2000s.  Soured on him for the same reasons.  And also then the fan effect where people were freaking out over ANYTHING he did while he walked around like an anti-social robot.  I get that he brought in tons of casual fans and people outside of normal golf fans, and that was amazing for the sport, but as an avid young golfer and fan in HS and college, it was beyond obnoxious to have people around you either lose interest immediately if Tiger wasn't leading, or worse yet get pissed about it and talk about how boring golf was if he wasn't winning.  All the while he had the on course personality of a ball retriever outside of the occasional fist pump and was the worst interview in sports.  Not to mention myriad people like our resident Tiger stan who can twist everything into why Tiger is going to win an event and how quaking in their boots every tour player is at facing him on a leaderboard.

I wasn't delirious over his Master's win for the reasons I listed above, but he's seemed refreshingly human the last 18 months or so.  From on camera stuff, to his interactions and chats with some of the younger blogs and media outlets to the father son event.  Its a nice change and has brought me back a bit.

As for Mickelson, its varied.  Ive heard similar.  My sister's BF who's mentor as a teaching pro is a legend in the industry explained it pretty well.  Phil, since he was 18-19 was THE MAN.  He was an absolute force of nature in college, just nearly unheard of production, and until Tiger, other than Jack, nobody was winning a bunch of tournaments before 25 like Phil did.  He got a huge ego and was cocky.  And wasn't a traditional quiet golf guy, hence FIGJAM (F** Im Good, Just Ask Me).  Among players who are also very good but not quite as good, its beyond annoying.

But, he also added that Phil was great to fans, staff generally enjoyed him, and as someone who loved to gamble, Phil was always good for it, unlike some.

Funny enough, as mentioned before, Bryson is similar.  His approach and antics annoy a lot of pros, but he's a really good guy, generally always has time for media and fans.  Ive mentioned before here, when he was the star at SMU, the golf coach booked time with my sister's BF, who at the time had gained a name as teaching pro at one of Dallas' better clubs, and they worked together for awhile.  Well the coach stiffed him, was generally unavailable, and ghosted further conversations. BF was soured on SMU and while it wasn't directly Bryson's (still a college kid) doing, didn't view him super fondly.  Fast forward to a few years ago, Bryson had toured pro, ran into the BF at DFW.  Excitedly came up to him, called him "Mr. BF" which is funny considering they are only 6-7 years apart in age, and wanted to catch up.  BF made reference to the situation kind of jokingly, Bryson was mortified, said he'd pay everything plus interest (and had a check sent a few days later) and told him he would gladly do recos or any marketing speak for a new golf venture BF was launching, free of charge.  Changed his perspective on him totally.  Was golfing with him and my sister in the fall during the US Open and he was pumped for him following along, which is not something Ive seen him do much with golfers at all.

[MU82]

Generally - yes it's a generalization, and there are exceptions - most top pros like Tiger and tolerate/dislike Phil.

[tower912]

I got my first two rounds of the year in.   British Open weather on a flat, open course.   Inventing shots and ball flights.

Sergio with 65 for the first round of the Players.  Impressive.

[jesmu84]

When do we think tiger actually began juicing?

Also, at this point I'm a convert to the school of thinking that PGA needs to play a distance-limited ball.

[tower912]

I see courses like Sawgrass and I disagree.  Pete Dye was an evil genius.

As to Tiger, look at pictures over the years. 

[jesmu84]

I see courses like Sawgrass and I disagree.  Pete Dye was an evil genius.

As to Tiger, look at pictures over the years.

So we agree Tiger was dominant early in his career and likely wasn't using anything?

[tower912]

In the early aughts, he decided he wanted a beach body.   And started doing army ranger drills.   He got big and buff. 
He changed his swing. Ostensibly to protect his knee, which had already been operated on a couple of times.

It worked for a while.   Then his body and personal life went pfft.   I don't know if he juiced.   I know he trained harder than anybody and his body broke down.

[JWags85]

So we agree Tiger was dominant early in his career and likely wasn't using anything?

I think he was saying courses like Sawgrass make him think a distance limiting ball isn’t a good idea.

As for Tiger juicing, I’m not sure exactly when, but the way his body comp exploded and the way he broke down points to it.  A number of smart people experienced with it have written about it, especially with the breaking down of his back and joints.

[tower912]

Yes, courses like TPC Sawgrass generally neutralize distance.

[Herman Cain]

To be completely honest, my dislike of Tiger had little to do with his game. I actually loved to root for him when he broke into the professional game.

But then he became a robot. Canned responses. Trying to control who could and couldn’t interview him.

I get that the guy was living under a microscope and was under tremendous pressure. But almost all of the other guys on tour were living event or event and trying to keep their card every year. At least pretend like you appreciate all of the adulation you get. Mickelson at least acted like he was having fun. He at least acknowledged the crowd.

That’s why I actually started to take interest in Tiger’s second act. He actually seemed like he was getting some pleasure out of competing again.

And for the record, I have an acquaintance who plays on the PGA Tour who said that Tiger is actually a decent guy and that Mickelson (with the exception of Patrick Reed) is the biggest jackass on tour and almost universally disliked by other players.

I completely agree with you actually.  Had Tiger gear and loved watching him all through the late 90s and early 2000s.  Soured on him for the same reasons.  And also then the fan effect where people were freaking out over ANYTHING he did while he walked around like an anti-social robot.  I get that he brought in tons of casual fans and people outside of normal golf fans, and that was amazing for the sport, but as an avid young golfer and fan in HS and college, it was beyond obnoxious to have people around you either lose interest immediately if Tiger wasn't leading, or worse yet get pissed about it and talk about how boring golf was if he wasn't winning.  All the while he had the on course personality of a ball retriever outside of the occasional fist pump and was the worst interview in sports.  Not to mention myriad people like our resident Tiger stan who can twist everything into why Tiger is going to win an event and how quaking in their boots every tour player is at facing him on a leaderboard.

I wasn't delirious over his Master's win for the reasons I listed above, but he's seemed refreshingly human the last 18 months or so.  From on camera stuff, to his interactions and chats with some of the younger blogs and media outlets to the father son event.  Its a nice change and has brought me back a bit.

As for Mickelson, its varied.  Ive heard similar.  My sister's BF who's mentor as a teaching pro is a legend in the industry explained it pretty well.  Phil, since he was 18-19 was THE MAN.  He was an absolute force of nature in college, just nearly unheard of production, and until Tiger, other than Jack, nobody was winning a bunch of tournaments before 25 like Phil did.  He got a huge ego and was cocky.  And wasn't a traditional quiet golf guy, hence FIGJAM (F** Im Good, Just Ask Me).  Among players who are also very good but not quite as good, its beyond annoying.

But, he also added that Phil was great to fans, staff generally enjoyed him, and as someone who loved to gamble, Phil was always good for it, unlike some.

Funny enough, as mentioned before, Bryson is similar.  His approach and antics annoy a lot of pros, but he's a really good guy, generally always has time for media and fans.  Ive mentioned before here, when he was the star at SMU, the golf coach booked time with my sister's BF, who at the time had gained a name as teaching pro at one of Dallas' better clubs, and they worked together for awhile.  Well the coach stiffed him, was generally unavailable, and ghosted further conversations. BF was soured on SMU and while it wasn't directly Bryson's (still a college kid) doing, didn't view him super fondly.  Fast forward to a few years ago, Bryson had toured pro, ran into the BF at DFW.  Excitedly came up to him, called him "Mr. BF" which is funny considering they are only 6-7 years apart in age, and wanted to catch up.  BF made reference to the situation kind of jokingly, Bryson was mortified, said he'd pay everything plus interest (and had a check sent a few days later) and told him he would gladly do recos or any marketing speak for a new golf venture BF was launching, free of charge.  Changed his perspective on him totally.  Was golfing with him and my sister in the fall during the US Open and he was pumped for him following along, which is not something Ive seen him do much with golfers at all.

Generally - yes it's a generalization, and there are exceptions - most top pros like Tiger and tolerate/dislike Phil.

Just to add my perspective and amplify on Phil to those above. We had a non golf related business relationship with Phil for many years that was profitable. However, I would agree with these posts above. Phil not the easiest guy to be around. However, he was generous with stuff like letting us hang around and take pics  with the Claret Jug that he won etc. 

[jesmu84]

I think he was saying courses like Sawgrass make him think a distance limiting ball isn’t a good idea.

As for Tiger juicing, I’m not sure exactly when, but the way his body comp exploded and the way he broke down points to it.  A number of smart people experienced with it have written about it, especially with the breaking down of his back and joints.

I understood the Sawgrass stuff.

I also understand tiger's body morph.

I was simply saying that Tiger was dominant early with a "normal" body.

[Uncle Rico]

Sawgrass mitigates distance because the driver goes too far on many holes.  Pete Dye didn’t have that in mind when he built the course.

[JWags85]

I understood the Sawgrass stuff.

I also understand tiger's body morph.

I was simply saying that Tiger was dominant early with a "normal" body.

I never implied that steroids were the reason he dominated. It arguably hurt him more in the long run than it helped him

[jesmu84]

I never implied that steroids were the reason he dominated. It arguably hurt him more in the long run than it helped him

We're on the same page.

All good, fam.

[RJax55]

In the early aughts, he decided he wanted a beach body.   And started doing army ranger drills.   He got big and buff. 
He changed his swing. Ostensibly to protect his knee, which had already been operated on a couple of times.

It worked for a while.   Then his body and personal life went pfft.   I don't know if he juiced.   I know he trained harder than anybody and his body broke down.

After the Tiger Slam, Tiger wanted to be seen by the public as an athlete, not a golfer. But, he didn't have the look. So began his workout regime. And, it worked. Unfortunately, it also killed his body and shorten the prime of his career.

Rory has done the same thing. Luckily so far, his body has held up. But, his game isn't better.

[tower912]

It will be interesting to see if Bryson's back and body are able to stand up to the changes he has made and how hard he swings.

[RJax55]

It will be interesting to see if Bryson's back and body are able to stand up to the changes he has made and how hard he swings.

I doubt it.

That said, the game is changing. Both Rory and Jason Day have talked about how younger guys will likely have shorter careers. Guys will go harder and faster in their primes and accept the trade-off. With the cash available, there's no reason for the top guys to have to grind it out year after year on the Tour.

[🏀]

The Tour absolutely should be using a ball that spins more.

There’s no argument against it that is valid.

[Chili]

After the Tiger Slam, Tiger wanted to be seen by the public as an athlete, not a golfer. But, he didn't have the look. So began his workout regime. And, it worked. Unfortunately, it also killed his body and shorten the prime of his career.

Rory has done the same thing. Luckily so far, his body has held up. But, his game isn't better.

Rory admitted he played terrible last week - still finished T10. He & DJ essentially just make the game to damn easy.

[Chili]

I doubt it.

That said, the game is changing. Both Rory and Jason Day have talked about how younger guys will likely have shorter careers. Guys will go harder and faster in their primes and accept the trade-off. With the cash available, there's no reason for the top guys to have to grind it out year after year on the Tour.

It's not only that but the speed game that coaches like GG preach puts a lot more force on the wrist and back. It's going to shorten a lot of careers.

[Chili]

The Tour absolutely should be using a ball that spins more.

There’s no argument against it that is valid.

Bifurcation is the answer but the big manufactures don't want that obviously.