COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[forgetful]

Gorsuch has a point though.

“It is time — past time — to make plain that, while the pandemic poses many grave challenges, there is no world in which the Constitution tolerates color-coded executive edicts that reopen liquor stores and bike shops but shutter churches, synagogues and mosques,” Justice Gorsuch wrote.

Except he doesn't, because the edicts do not block anyones right to worship or express other constitutional rights.  They simply place restrictions on the number of people allowed to be in one location at a time.

And the churches, etc. are not singled out, because of any religious grounds. It was made explicitly clear that the restrictions were placed based on a scientific risk of spread. There is no data suggesting liquor stores or bike shops are high-spread risks, so no similar restrictions.

The decision ignored lengthy precedent on allowable restrictions oriented towards saving peoples lives during health emergencies. It also explicitly placed the right to worship in any and all ways, above the right to life.

[GooooMarquette]

And the churches, etc. are not singled out, because of any religious grounds. It was made explicitly clear that the restrictions were placed based on a scientific risk of spread.

Too me, this is the key. The restrictions were based solely on a scientific risk assessment of the likelihood of spread based on the sizes of typical crowds and other relevant factors.

I think the dissent got it right. And it appears that Sotomayor wrote the relevant passage, with Kagan joining.

[MU82]

Tests aplenty for "haves" but not for "have-nots."

(Disclosure: My wife, an RN who has never been tested for COVID-19, has asked similar questions to those in this article.)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/11/27/nurses-athletes-sports-coronavirus-tests/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2d129f3%2F5fc12d5b9d2fda0efb75518d%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F71%2F5fc12d5b9d2fda0efb75518d

On her day off not long ago, emergency room nurse Jane Sandoval sat with her husband and watched her favorite NFL team, the San Francisco 49ers. She’s off every other Sunday, and even during the coronavirus pandemic, this is something of a ritual. Jane and Carlos watch, cheer, yell — just one couple’s method of escape.

“It makes people feel normal,” she says.

For Sandoval, though, it has become more and more difficult to enjoy as the season — and the pandemic — wears on. Early in the season, the 49ers’ Kyle Shanahan was one of five coaches fined for violating the league’s requirement that all sideline personnel wear face coverings. Jane noticed, even as coronavirus cases surged again in California and across the United States, that Levi’s Stadium was considering admitting fans to watch games.

But the hardest thing to ignore, Sandoval says, is that when it comes to coronavirus testing, this is a nation of haves and have-nots.

Among the haves are professional and college athletes, in particular those who play football. From Nov. 8 to 14, the NFL administered 43,148 tests to 7,856 players, coaches and employees. Major college football programs supply dozens of tests each day, an attempt — futile as it has been — to maintain health and prevent schedule interruptions. Major League Soccer administered nearly 5,000 tests last week, and Major League Baseball conducted some 170,000 tests during its truncated season.

Sandoval, meanwhile, is a 58-year-old front-line worker who regularly treats patients either suspected or confirmed to have been infected by the coronavirus. In eight months, she has never been tested. She says her employer, California Pacific Medical Center, refuses to provide testing for its medical staff even after possible exposure.

Watching sports, then, no longer represents an escape from reality for Sandoval. Instead, she says, it’s a signal of what the nation prioritizes.

[lawdog77]

There is no data suggesting liquor stores ..... are high-spread risks, so no similar restrictions.

You clearly must have missed election night and the run on buying champagne.

[GooooMarquette]

What exponential growth looks like:

* it took 98 days from the first reported case to 1 million.
* it took 6 days from 12 million cases to 13 million.

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-11-27-20-intl/h_8b80c7232519e60f3654a2e2cd4a9875

I am getting really tired of winning....

[MU82]

But, you know, "It affects virtually nobody" ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/27/covid-coronavirus-update-black-friday/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2d1902e%2F5fc281259d2fda0efb76ccc1%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F12%2F60%2F5fc281259d2fda0efb76ccc1

As daily covid-19 deaths climb to levels not seen since early in the pandemic, nine states have hit one more grim marker: more than 1 in every 1,000 people dead of coronavirus-related causes.

The list reflects the far-reaching toll of the crisis, spanning early hot spots, Southern states hit hard in the summer and rural parts of the country with increasingly strained hospitals. And it is growing.

On Friday, South Dakota became the latest state to see at least one covid-19 death for every 1,000 residents, joining New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Louisiana, Rhode Island, Mississippi and North Dakota.

Red states, blue states, COVID don't give a damn where you live or who you voted for. Good thing our "leader" declared victory over the coronavirus on April 29 -- enabling him to do nothing (except try to subvert our democratic process, hold super-spreader events, play golf and fire off deranged twits) until a vaccine that might or might not work and that people might or might not be willing to get becomes widely available.

[rocky_warrior]

This news headline caught my attention:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

But reading it jostled some brain cells that Japan generally has a high suicide rate:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/622065/japan-suicide-number/

So certainly they will likely have a slightly higher suicide number than last year, and
1) it's prudent for the government to take action to help those in need
2) But mostly, damn, they're doing great controlling Covid!

[rocket surgeon]

This news headline caught my attention:
https://www.foxnews.com/world/more-people-died-of-suicide-in-japan-in-one-month-than-the-entire-coronavirus-pandemic

But reading it jostled some brain cells that Japan generally has a high suicide rate:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/622065/japan-suicide-number/

So certainly they will likely have a slightly higher suicide number than last year, and
1) it's prudent for the government to take action to help those in need
2) But mostly, damn, they're doing great controlling Covid!

so they've done well with covid, but worse with the suicides...a death is a death is a death.  i wouldn't be so quick to pat anyone on the back about any of this.  and gee, china sure knows how to handle a nasty virus though, eyn'a?  86,000+ cases and only an astounding(but still tragic) death number at 4600??  i wonder how their suicide rate has been?    come on man!! 


  Dr. Ben Sobel:
I thought you were in prison?

Jelly:
It would appear not.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
How'd you get out?

Jelly:
I had a new trial. Turns out that the evidence in the first trial was tainted.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
O, I see

Jelly:
Anyway, two of the witnesses decided not to testify and the third guy, well, he commited suicide.

Dr. Ben Sobel:
How?

Jelly:
He stabbed himself in the back four times and threw himself off a bridge.
 

    just wait until all the numbers start coming out here-suicides, drug overdoses, increases in drug and alcohol usages and relapse, deaths due to neglect(purposeful or not) of all other medical issues. 

[jesmu84]

    just wait until all the numbers start coming out here-suicides, drug overdoses, increases in drug and alcohol usages and relapse, deaths due to neglect(purposeful or not) of all other medical issues.

I actually agree with you, rocket.

If the government would have done more to contain the virus and individuals would have done more to avoid spreading the virus, we would have had lower positivity rates and less hospitalizations  and therefore more resources to fight all the things that you list.

I'm sure you agree with that, right?

[rocket surgeon]

I actually agree with you, rocket.

If the government would have done more to contain the virus and individuals would have done more to avoid spreading the virus, we would have had lower positivity rates and less hospitalizations  and therefore more resources to fight all the things that you list.

I'm sure you agree with that, right?

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There is a path to containing the virus and it’s been proven in many developed countries.  You won’t eradicate it until there is mass vaccination.  That is actually on the horizon and ups the payoff for containment.

‘There is nothing we can do’ is one of the biggest falsehood of the pandemic.   

[🏀]

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it. 

No containing, but telling your mouth-breathing cult to wear a mask in March would’ve help mitigate the fallout.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus. 

Was there absolutely 100% containing it?  No.  But stop kidding yourself, the United States has done an awful job.

Look at countries like Australia.  They had eight new cases yesterday.  Their positivity rate since January is 0.3%.  They have had 924 total deaths.  And this is after they had a mini-outbreak during their winter that they managed well.  And their unemployment rate is about the same as the United States' and they now have packed sports stadiums and restaurants that are fully open.  While we are sliding backwards.

That's what a competent national response looks like.

[HutchwasClutch]

Was there absolutely 100% containing it?  No.  But stop kidding yourself, the United States has done an awful job.

Look at countries like Australia.  They had eight new cases yesterday.  Their positivity rate since January is 0.3%.  They have had 924 total deaths.  And this is after they had a mini-outbreak during their winter that they managed well.  And their unemployment rate is about the same as the United States' and they now have packed sports stadiums and restaurants that are fully open.  While we are sliding backwards.

That's what a competent national response looks like.

And it’s an island country in the far South Pacific.  Islands off Australia’s coast didn’t have their first COVID case until a couple weeks ago.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

And it’s an island country in the far South Pacific.  Islands off Australia’s coast didn’t have their first COVID case until a couple weeks ago.

Australia and the continental US are roughly the same size in land mass.  So it’s not an ‘island’ in the sense of Taiwan as an example. 

They have advantages in border control but the virus didn’t come from Mexico/Canada.  So not sure that is relevant. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Remember the narrative we should be following Europe’s response?
https://fortune.com/2020/08/05/covid-coronavirus-deaths-us-europe/amp/

And then now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/25/europe/europe-coronavirus-deaths-holidays-intl/index.html

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Actually their response to the true second wave has been ok.  Not great but better than round one.  The French model for response to the second wave should be something we study (they kept the schools open)

No one is saying that outbreaks are not going to happen. In fact it’s inevitable.  Doing nothing when they happen though is really bad and sets us up for a terrible winter.  Hospitals are already filling up.  What is happening in the Dakotas is just terrible.  Their deaths per 100k could rival early hit areas when all said and done.  That is not great considering all the medical advances between now and then.

[forgetful]

Remember the narrative we should be following Europe’s response?
https://fortune.com/2020/08/05/covid-coronavirus-deaths-us-europe/amp/

And then now:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/11/25/europe/europe-coronavirus-deaths-holidays-intl/index.html

And yet, they are still doing better than us. Despite having a much higher population density, Europes per capita cases in the current spike is still lower than in the US.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

There is a path to containing the virus and it’s been proven in many developed countries.  You won’t eradicate it until there is mass vaccination.  That is actually on the horizon and ups the payoff for containment.

‘There is nothing we can do’ is one of the biggest falsehood of the pandemic.

Yup. The new right-wing talking point being dutifully repeated by the trained seals is that no one could possibly have done anything, despite verifiable facts to the contrary.

Facts and evidence don't matter and are conveniently ignored. The important part is to ensure Agent Orange and conservative dogma don't take the blame. "Liberate!"? Not their fault. Anti-maskers? Didn't have an impact. Keeping bars open? Nothing could be done you see.

[GooooMarquette]

Fauci expecting 'a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in' due to Thanksgiving travel:

Fauci says Christmas and New Year’s restrictions will be necessary due to holiday coronavirus wave

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/29/coronavirus-fauci-says-christmas-and-new-years-restrictions-will-be-necessary.html

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said on Sunday that the U.S. is heading into a difficult period of the coronavirus pandemic and said current restrictions and travel advisories will be necessary for the Christmas holiday season.

“What we expect, unfortunately, as we go for the next couple of weeks into December, is that we might see a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in,” Fauci said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press”. “I don’t want to frighten people, except to say it is not too late to do something about this.”

[GooooMarquette]

And yet, they are still doing better than us. Despite having a much higher population density, Europes per capita cases in the current spike is still lower than in the US.

Yep - people keep ignoring population density when comparing the US and EU.

Communicable diseases are inherently more difficult to fight when hosts are more densely packed. According to population density data from The World Bank, population density in the EU (111 people/square km) is 3 times as great as in the US (36 people/sqaure km)...so the EU's Covid numbers should be dramatically worse than ours. The US would be a dramatic failure even if the numbers were comparable...so the fact that our numbers are even worse than the EU's puts us in a category of failure beyond comparison...

[MU82]

  jesmu, as this virus was so new in many different ways coupled with the fact that the chinese did not play nice and it was an election year, no one really knew how to go about attacking this virus.  there was NO CONTAINING this virus.   

    what we did with this pandemic is monumental.  the speed at which our bio sciences are coming up with antidotes, vaccines, anti-virals, antibodies, etc. is a testament to our dedicated research.  in the past, the average time to get a vaccine out was multiples of years, not months.  but you are wrong about "containing" it.   this virus is not going to go away until most everyone gets it in some form or another, herd immunity is developed and/or the vaccines are effective and distributed in an efficient way.  everyone's body handles it differently, but very few (if any) were immune to it.

Totally false narrative.

I and some others here have agreed that the first couple of months were problematic for numerous reasons. And although Trump shouldn't have lied about it non-stop, he mostly followed the experts' advice re lockdowns, masks, etc.

However, by mid-April, the science was clear. On April 16, your emperor announced guidelines based on benchmarks. On April 17, he encouraged mask-less, gun-toting, domestic-terrorist thugs to storm the capitol to "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" even though that state was nowhere near having achieved the guidelines he himself had laid out a mere 18 hours earlier.

He also twitted out to LIBERATE MINNESOTA and LIBERATE VIRGINIA even though those states hadn't met his own guidelines. And then the free-for-all -- and total abdication of leadership and responsibility -- began.

By the end of April, Jared had claimed that his sugar daddy had scored a decisive victory over the coronavirus. Only about 250K Americans have died from it since.

Then came the mocking of people wearing masks, the demanding states to re-open fully despite experts saying otherwise, the deadly super-spreader rallies (RIP Herman Cain), the White House super-spreader events (almost RIP Trump), the claims that the virus "affects virtually nobody," the total and reckless disregard for human life.

You're right that it was "monumental," rocket -- a monumental eff-up, the biggest failure to keep Americans safe in the history of the presidency.

And ultimately, his horrific response cost him his job.

[tower912]

If you never actually try, you can't say you failed.

[Marquette Fan]

Fauci expecting 'a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in' due to Thanksgiving travel:

Fauci says Christmas and New Year’s restrictions will be necessary due to holiday coronavirus wave

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/29/coronavirus-fauci-says-christmas-and-new-years-restrictions-will-be-necessary.html

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said on Sunday that the U.S. is heading into a difficult period of the coronavirus pandemic and said current restrictions and travel advisories will be necessary for the Christmas holiday season.

“What we expect, unfortunately, as we go for the next couple of weeks into December, is that we might see a surge superimposed on the surge we are already in,” Fauci said in an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press”. “I don’t want to frighten people, except to say it is not too late to do something about this.”

Telling people not to travel at Christmas might not have much of an impact though.  Tons of people ignored advisories about travel and gatherings at Thanksgiving and I expect the same thing at Christmas unfortunately.

[rocky_warrior]

so they've done well with covid, but worse with the suicides...a death is a death is a death.  i wouldn't be so quick to pat anyone on the back about any of this. 

Japan has done a great job with covid. Pat them on the back for that. They've done a horrible job with suicides every year. This year isn't much worse than average for them - if you happen to actually look at the numbers.

But hey, keep going on tangential rants. You be you.