COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[mu03eng]

If another country did what Colorado just did. Our leadership would be attacking them for manipulating their numbers and lying to the world.

We are undercounting, for political reasons, this is exactly what we have criticized other nations for.

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

[GooooMarquette]

 i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Regrettably, this has become so politicized by both sides that we may never know the real numbers even in our country. The only "good" news is that any inflated numbers from states with more liberal leaders will probably cancel out (or nearly cancel out) any deflated numbers from states with conservative leaders. Even this news is cold comfort, though, as epidemiologists need to know both the "how many" and the "where" to combat a pandemic effectively.

I still think Trump had one chance - back in late January or early February - to seize public opinion on COVID in bold, Bush-like way. Just as a reminder, below is W's first address on 9/11. Note that he only uses "I" a couple of times, never refers to himself in the third person, sincerely expresses condolences to those directly affected, thanks the first responders who were risking their lives to save others, and mostly uses terms like "we," "the United States" or "the American people" when he talks about things to be done going forward.

Per Gallup, Bush's public approval went from 51% to 90% within two weeks, and stayed above 70% for nearly a year. In other words, plenty of people who had never supported Bush were moved by his leadership. By contrast, Trump's handling of this - describe it however you want - has left his numbers exactly where they were in late January to early February - they were at 49% then, and stand at 49% as of the May 1-13 poll. In short, Bush transcended politics, but Trump hasn't been able to do that. IMHO - if Trump had early and consistently addressed this in an honest, proactive way, and communicated a message of unity, empathy, thankfulness and selflessness like Bush was able to do, he too could have transcended politics...for everyone's gain.

Bush speech:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4507634/president-bush-september-11-terrorist-attacks

Bush approval ratings:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-approval-ratings-george-bush.aspx

Trump approval ratings:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

[jesmu84]

i don't know if this has been discussed somewhere previously, but colorado just adjusted their death numbers by 25%.  no deaths are ok, but i'd rather they adjusted down than up.  unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.  the overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Can you provide the answers to my questions, please?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

C'mon eng, you're not new here, you know by now that rocket is never willing or able to backup the latest talking point he regurgitates.

[MarquetteDano]

he overall death numbers have been highly inaccurate on the national level as well.  i hope this is being widely reported, because there are many people who are (no pun) scared to death to go outdoors much more than their own yards

Seems like your assertion will be very easy to prove.  What were the overall deaths recorded in March and April of 2019 versus 2020?  If you are correct,  we would see the total deaths increase year over year to be markedly less than deaths attributed to COVID.

[Pakuni]

If only there were some sort of umbrella organization that could establish reporting standards for all the states so that we could get a clear understanding of the death toll.

[tower912]

Well, if you have a nationwide standard for reporting and the numbers go up, then you have higher numbers.   

[Uncle Rico]

Well, if you have a nationwide standard for reporting and the numbers go up, then you have higher numbers.

Ugh.  If it wasn’t for testing, we wouldn’t have any cases.  Thanks, Obama

[rocket surgeon]

Can you provide the answers to my questions, please?

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

From the article. 

“ Dr. Eric France, CDPHE’s chief medical officer, said the state’s surveillance-system reporting is in line with federal guidance and matches how other states are also reporting deaths, allowing for a quick apples-to-apples comparison across states. Death certificate data also gets reported to the federal government, but it can take weeks or months for those numbers to trickle in. Having uniform surveillance definitions across states is vital for tracking the spread of the virus and allocating federal resources, France said.”

So they are using guidance provided by the federal government. 

[GooooMarquette]

From the article. 

“ Dr. Eric France, CDPHE’s chief medical officer, said the state’s surveillance-system reporting is in line with federal guidance and matches how other states are also reporting deaths, allowing for a quick apples-to-apples comparison across states. Death certificate data also gets reported to the federal government, but it can take weeks or months for those numbers to trickle in. Having uniform surveillance definitions across states is vital for tracking the spread of the virus and allocating federal resources, France said.”

So they are using guidance provided by the federal government.

A lesson on the importance of reading past the headline to the entire article.

Go figure....

[wadesworld]

Lol

[mu03eng]

So it looks like currently the death numbers are lagging by 10 days, meaning that the numbers reported this week were people infected 4-5 weeks ago.

So for us to read anything into the number of deaths as a reflection of the reopening we're looking at something 45 days from now (a week to show symptoms, a week to go to the hospital, 3 weeks to of hospitalization, then 10 days for the data to show up post death).

So bottom line, no one should be talking about the death rate reflecting the success or failure of opening up until late June.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Eng I totally agree.  Our state has a variety of metrics but the hospitalization rate is one that seems smart to track. 

I believe we all have to get to a much higher testing rate with asymptomatic/random rotation to truly trust the testing data as a leading metric. 

If you hit a peak/out of control period like we did death rate mattered to know if we were making progress but even that was crude and lagging. 

[GooooMarquette]

So it looks like currently the death numbers are lagging by 10 days, meaning that the numbers reported this week were people infected 4-5 weeks ago.

So for us to read anything into the number of deaths as a reflection of the reopening we're looking at something 45 days from now (a week to show symptoms, a week to go to the hospital, 3 weeks to of hospitalization, then 10 days for the data to show up post death).

So bottom line, no one should be talking about the death rate reflecting the success or failure of opening up until late June.

Once again...affirmative.

[forgetful]

Do you have proof of this? 1. That we are undercounting and 2. That it is being politically orchestrated? I have little doubt that on the whole we are undercounting but for you to ascribe it to some sort of intentional national effort is.....an aggressive statement. I'd like to see the proof

I guess it depends on what you call proof.

1. There is a general scientific consensus that we have substantially more excess deaths than can be explained via current coronavirus counts and all normal death rates. That leads to a scientific consensus of there being 10's of thousands more deaths than we have counted. This in part is due to a lack of testing available.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

2. Our president, and most of those on the right side of the political spectrum have been railing about we are counting too many deaths. There are reports that Jared was advising Trump that having more testing and higher death counts would hurt the economy and advised that less testing may remedy that.

https://www.salon.com/2020/05/15/trump-wanted-less-testing-after-kushner-worried-more-positive-results-would-spook-market-report/

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-coronavirus-response-keep-stock-market-up-economy-2020-5

2b. Some states have also took hold of the message and alter their reporting.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/29/politics/florida-coronavirus-death-figures-withheld/index.html

***Now the above is as much evidence we have of other nations fudging numbers for political/economic reasons. In some regards the Trump/Kushner news is far more evidence than we have of other nations. My point was that if we are to criticize them, then we need to hold the same scrutiny on ourself. I actually have defended other nations, if you want to go through the threads, because I realize that a lot will be missed because of this being unprecedented and difficult to keep up with in real time.

But the caveat to that is the rest of the world has been adding more deaths, often suspected, with no tests, because they are trying to be more accurate. Colorado is removing deaths, even though the real count is likely even higher than the published one. And if you don't think it was based on politics, you are acting out of character, I find you to be one of the more rational individuals on here.

[pbiflyer]

Coronavirus death toll in US likely worse than numbers say

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/coronavirus-death-toll-us-worse-numbers/story?id=70018321

"There is still no formal uniform platform for reporting coronavirus-related deaths in the US,” Glatter said. “Along with a lack of test kits or even rapid antigen identification kits, the reality is that many states have been unable to categorize deaths as COVID vs. non-COVID.”

[jesmu84]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

I'm asking about these questions:

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60387.msg1242701#msg1242701

[TSmith34, Inc.]

https://coloradosun.com/2020/05/15/colorado-coronavirus-death-certificate/


 and smith, you can go suck it!!

Sure thing, right after you provide proof for your unhinged rants.  You can start with these:

Can you link to the studies (not anecdotal stories or singular cases) you found that show success?

Also, there is no way any doctor has been prescribing this "for years" for covid-19?

What were the reasons CVS refused to fill? Is there a reliable source that states the federal government told the CVS pharmacists to not fill?

Can you provide examples of doctors getting sanctioned for saying the word hydroxychloroquine?

Can you provide links that demonstrate significantly higher numbers of people dying of other conditions that are being ignored vs expected numbers in a non-pandemic situation?

Still waiting for you to tell us which doctors are breaking their oaths. Or which patients aren't being cared for that have urgent or emergent conditions

Please, for the love of God, stop this conspiracy theory madness.

"Sources"? GTFO.

Show me scientific proof/evidence. Generally, the scientists involved with research behind this disease do not believe any of this crap.

Exhibit A: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-coronavirus-did-not-come-from-a-lab-study-shows-natural-origins/#4a1034723728

[MU82]

unfortunately, these people still did die, but just not due to COVID-19.

Thought you were a dentist, not a medical examiner.

Most epidemiologists and infectious disease experts believe that the number of deaths has been under-reported by a considerable margin.

But hey, if an anonymous guy on the interwebs says otherwise ... and then gives us a link to an article that doesn't come close to proving what he was claiming ... well then, I sit corrected.

[MU82]

I am heartened by the patient, pragmatic leadership being shown by Charlotte-area religious clergy in the wake of an NC judge's ruling that our governor didn't have the right to put limitations on church services during the pandemic.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article242797901.html?

Worshipers across the state of North Carolina have been granted progressively more freedom to attend religious gatherings over the past couple of weeks, first thanks to Phase One of the state’s COVID-19 reopening plan and this weekend courtesy of a federal judge’s order.

But more than 75 Charlotte-area clergy members and faith leaders have joined together to deliver a message regarding getting back to the business of worshiping together in large groups again: Not so fast.

“We will approach the complicated process of regathering in our temples, mosques, sanctuaries and meeting halls with abundant caution and intention,” said the statement, which was addressed to “Our Communities and Neighbors.”

“Respectfully, these decisions may not align with the guidelines offered by government officials. We share the belief that all people are created in the image of God. It is the health, safety, and well-being of our communities and neighbors that motivate us towards making decisions that will care for and protect one another.”

The statement, released Friday morning, was signed by leaders of some of the city’s largest religious institutions, including Claude Alexander, senior pastor at The Park Church; Joe Clifford, senior pastor at Myers Park Presbyterian; and James Howell, senior pastor at Myers Park United Methodist Church.

The effort was spearheaded by Rev. Lori Archer Raible of Selwyn Avenue Presbyterian Church and Rabbi Asher Knight of Temple Beth El.

The goal? To get congregants to understand that how and when they reopen will be based on factors that are independent of political influence — and why they believe that’s the wisest course of action.

“It’s not a partisan statement,” Raible said. “It’s not a political statement. It’s a statement about our concern for the well-being of our community.”

“There’s a push towards the possibility of reopening,” Knight added. “But just because we can return doesn’t mean that we all should.”

[🏀]

Long way to go, but some decent news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/moderna-reports-positive-data-on-early-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial.html

[MU82]

Long way to go, but some decent news.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/18/moderna-reports-positive-data-on-early-stage-coronavirus-vaccine-trial.html

I personally have no problem with you putting this here (and I'm sure everybody is happy I say so), but FYI there is an entire thread devoted to treatments.

[🏀]

I personally have no problem with you putting this here (and I'm sure everybody is happy I say so), but FYI there is an entire thread devoted to treatments.

Yeah, I rushed and didn’t complete my work to the best of my ability.

[tower912]

Do you suppose the soaking midwest rains and Tropical Storm Arthur are just God's way of saying get your butts back inside?