MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Warrior of Law on March 19, 2023, 08:45:21 PM
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When a team is struggling, you need a boost from the bench. Didn’t happen today. Likely cost them the game.
Bench: 7 points, 2-8 from the field, 6 turnovers. Chase Ross was particularly terrible and Joplin was a close second. Assuming everyone comes back, I would expect huge strides with a seamless 8-9 man rotation. Tough day but huge learning opportunity for the young players.
Reminds me of the ‘93 team that used the NCAA loss to spring board a Sweet 16 run Maturity will be big factor. Future is brighter.
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When a team is struggling, you need a boost from the bench. Didn’t happen today. Likely cost them the game.
Bench: 7 points, 2-8 from the field, 6 turnovers. Chase Ross was particularly terrible and Joplin was a close second. Assuming everyone comes back, I would expect huge strides with a seamless 8-9 man rotation. Tough day but huge learning opportunity for the young players.
Reminds me of the ‘93 team that used the NCAA loss to spring board a Sweet 16 run Maturity will be big factor. Future is brighter.
Our bench consisted of 3 freshman and a sophomore with limited playing time. Lack of experience hurt us in a big game.
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Would’ve like to see Gold get at least a few minutes in the second half. Chase has star potential written all over him.
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A year ago, most of us despaired. I had no idea what would happen in the transfer portal, but I had some optimism due to the flashes that the 6 guys who returned and were the core of the team had shown. Each had given a glimpse of what they could become this 29-7 season.
I am going to choose to remember the glimpses our bench showed during the season and remember that 3 of the 4 were freshmen. Just like Kam, Stevie, and Joplin were last year. And sometimes freshmen stink.
So, yes, today, the bench was not a positive factor. But, like everyone else, if they choose to return and continue with the process, I look forward to seeing their progress.
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Chase Ross is a player. Maybe the moment was just a little too big for him yesterday. But, I have every confidence he will be a big part of next season. Just look at the progress both Stevie and Kam made from their freshman years. Ben Gold should also take a big jump after an off-season in the weight room. David Joplin is, I think, who he is. He will continue to get better but is not likely to take a big jump - just not athletic enough. And Sean Jones has a long way to go and may decide to play at a lower level. His size doesn't have anything to do with it (just watch Nowell at KState to see how good a small pg can be), but he just did not seem to progress much during the season.
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Well the bench should be better next year Freshman become sophomores New guys come in etc. Gold and Ross look like stars, imagine if they improve like Oso, Jones, Kolek did. Sean Jones thouh, sure you can point to a guy like Markus Howard or the KSU guy but he has really shown me nothing. I think maybe a lower level is best. If I could pick who leaves it would be him. Excited to see Ellis final play. I think Itejeri can fill the five minutes a game Ben Gold role next year, really that's all you need from him next year. Gold will put on weight, come back improved and ready to rock. Rebounding must get addressed
Unless there is a new player coming in it will have to be internally. i think you could see Oso, gold, Omax together at times next season? Thoughts?...
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hoping to see a bulkier, more aggressive banging Oso at the 4 with Ben patrolling the rim
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This wasn't really a bench problem, I don't think. Tyler playing the way he did, and with foul trouble, forced a lot of people into positions that they aren't supposed to be in.
Ross is really great attacking a close out. He's not yet great creating for himself and others. When Tyler goes down, our only dominant ball handler is out, and other players that aren't supposed to create, are forced into creation roles.
When Ross could just play aggressive defense, drive into close outs, and shoot open shots he was a great role player. If we had an additional ball handler that could come in and create, he could stay in the role and shine. There are great NBA players who fit this mold as well.
Joplin is another guy who was forced into more creation.
Recruit another ball handler or two to keep people in the roles that they are really great in, and this problem goes away.
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This wasn't really a bench problem, I don't think. Tyler playing the way he did, and with foul trouble, forced a lot of people into positions that they aren't supposed to be in.
Ross is really great attacking a close out. He's not yet great creating for himself and others. When Tyler goes down, our only dominant ball handler is out, and other players that aren't supposed to create, are forced into creation roles.
When Ross could just play aggressive defense, drive into close outs, and shoot open shots he was a great role player. If we had an additional ball handler that could come in and create, he could stay in the role and shine. There are great NBA players who fit this mold as well.
Joplin is another guy who was forced into more creation.
Recruit another ball handler or two to keep people in the roles that they are really great in, and this problem goes away.
The problem yesterday had to do with Tyler Kolek being off his game. Not going to blame him though because he has gotten us to this point.
Next year if Tyler is off his game we will have a more experienced Sean Jones and high profile defensive minded PG Tre Norman to fill in.
The problem yesterday was there was no one to fill in for TK on his off day. We will have a much more versatile roster next season.
G- Kolek, Jones
G- Kam, Norman
G- Stevie, Ross, Lowery
F- OMax, Joplin, Amadou
F- Oso, Gold
Final spot to Ellis or Itejere
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Would’ve like to see Gold get at least a few minutes in the second half. Chase has star potential written all over him.
So does Gold.
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Can't blame anyone in particular. It was a team fail.
But we appreciate the great season they provided.
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Any chance Amadou gets RS next season?
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Any chance Amadou gets RS next season?
Probably not. They'll take all the size they can get.
If there is a Redshirt I'd say Lowery is a better bet. Amadou has stretch 4/5 potential with a nice ability to block shots at the basket.
He'll almost certainly add 10 to 15 pounds with Todd Smith between now and opening tipoff.
Al is very O-Max-like in his size and skills. He's more sturdy on his feet and at the rim defensively which could allow the staff put him behind Oso at the 5 rather than behind OMax at the 4.
Going from Oso to Al in the pick and roll would be nasty. Al has a really nice jump shot for his size.
https://youtube.com/shorts/fN1VRaL3WqA?feature=share
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When a team is struggling, you need a boost from the bench. Didn’t happen today. Likely cost them the game.
Bench: 7 points, 2-8 from the field, 6 turnovers. Chase Ross was particularly terrible and Joplin was a close second. Assuming everyone comes back, I would expect huge strides with a seamless 8-9 man rotation. Tough day but huge learning opportunity for the young players.
Reminds me of the ‘93 team that used the NCAA loss to spring board a Sweet 16 run Maturity will be big factor. Future is brighter.
Joplin played very well in big East tournament. We were hard to beat when he is having a good game.
We would have beat Michigan St., if he was hitting threes. We would beat Michigan St, if Kolek played his usual game. We could not survive both not playing well.
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Joplin played very well in big East tournament. We were hard to beat when he is having a good game.
We would have beat Michigan St., if he was hitting threes. We would beat Michigan St, if Kolek played his usual game. We could not survive both not playing well.
We made 11 3s and 9 2s. The issue was Mich St defense controlling our elite 2 pt %.
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We made 11 3s and 9 2s. The issue was Mich St defense controlling our elite 2 pt %.
We only made 5 2pt field goals in 2007 last time against them so that’s some improvement I guess.
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We made 11 3s and 9 2s. The issue was Mich St defense controlling our elite 2 pt %.
Some scoopers think Izzo had zero to do with the loss…..when in fact he had a great deal to do with it.
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Some scoopers think Izzo had zero to do with the loss…..when in fact he had a great deal to do with it.
Surprised he didn’t have better game plans throughout the course of the season
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Ask AL about Sean Jones and he would mention something about an 11am mass at a seaside resort 🏖 🏀.
When Sean harnesses his ⚡️ speed, and makes better decisions after he beats his man off the dribble, LTFO! I hope he’s not going anywhere. I don’t want to hear about his height. That 5 ft nothing FDU guard ran circles around his defenders. Sean’s burst off the bench is an invaluable part of Shaka’s system.
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Some scoopers think Izzo had zero to do with the loss…..when in fact he had a great deal to do with it.
I think Hank, I mean Wojcik, had something to do with it. Izzo is AL, without the big personality.
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Surprised he didn’t have better game plans throughout the course of the season
Mr March not Mr December
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Mr March not Mr December
Masterful game plan pushing marquette into all of those unforced turnovers and missed open layups.
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Masterful game plan pushing marquette into all of those unforced turnovers and missed open layups.
Except they weren’t completely unforced and those weren’t true layups. Beyond his thumb, Tyler was made uncomfortable. So were Chase and Jop. Give credit where it is due. Wojcik is a pro level scout.
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Except they weren’t completely unforced and those weren’t true layups. Beyond his thumb, Tyler was made uncomfortable. So were Chase and Jop. Give credit where it is due. Wojcik is a pro level scout.
I can't wait until the tournament is over so I can re watch just to point out the three or four straight possessions where chase turned the ball over with some poor decision making and Kolek tried to make a globetrotters no look across court pass. But, but, but Izzo in March !
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panda
I was as frustrated watching it in real time as you were. I’ve never been one of those “izzo in March” guys. Just saying, how often have you heard coaches talk about the difficulty of simulating what other teams do in practice?
I think Izzo delegates almost all of scouting and much of the Xs and Os to his assistants, and is similar to Al in that he just watches the “party on the court”, except it is a generally a lot of bad dancing that often somehow results in having a good time.
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panda & GoFast
Now that season is over, I will voice my opinion on the players. Real quickly, I am not as sold on Sean Jones, love Mitchell as a person and think there are better options down the road. I would like to see a team that Mitchell is getting Sean type minutes next season. There are 4-5 guys that I 100% hope are back and not going to worry if several guys test the free agent market.
When it is all said and done, it is about winning. IMO, MU sucked on Sunday but some of the lack of individual talent was exposed. Did Shaka run a gimmick defense, and offense, maybe he did. But, I think it was a masterful job of making everyone better. Possibly, some new blood with higher talent levels changes everything in a positiveway.
Basically, this team was awesome and we all enjoyed it. As we sit here today, I would not be concerned if one of my nine favorites player left, provided it was not that guys with the most to offer next season. That said, if everyone is back, I would expect upside improvement across the board.
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panda & GoFast
Now that season is over, I will voice my opinion on the players. Real quickly, I am not as sold on Sean Jones, love Mitchell as a person and think there are better options down the road. I would like to see a team that Mitchell is getting Sean type minutes next season. There are 4-5 guys that I 100% hope are back and not going to worry if several guys test the free agent market.
When it is all said and done, it is about winning. IMO, MU sucked on Sunday but some of the lack of individual talent was exposed. Did Shaka run a gimmick defense, and offense, maybe he did. But, I think it was a masterful job of making everyone better. Possibly, some new blood with higher talent levels changes everything in a positiveway.
Basically, this team was awesome and we all enjoyed it. As we sit here today, I would not be concerned if one of my nine favorites player left, provided it was not that guys with the most to offer next season. That said, if everyone is back, I would expect upside improvement across the board.
Pretty horrible take on Stevie IMO, but everyone is entitled to their own.
Stevie is absolutely a must for this team and that was shown by just how dominant Marquette's starting lineup was all season. One of the best in America from start to finish using the eyeball and metrics.
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Golden
Just curious, if MU had a team with a talent level that Stevie played 12-14 minutes, wouldn't that be a good thing?
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Golden
Just curious, if MU had a team with a talent level that Stevie played 12-14 minutes, wouldn't that be a good thing?
He could also take a big jump next year
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He could also take a big jump next year
Yeah if he fixes the jumper it's gonna be even tougher to keep him off the floor.
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I can't wait until the tournament is over so I can re watch just to point out the three or four straight possessions where chase turned the ball over with some poor decision making and Kolek tried to make a globetrotters no look across court pass. But, but, but Izzo in March !
They are not mutually exclusive, as it seems you want it to be. When you go back and e the game, look at the gap defense that MSU played to start the game. We had no plan for that. When you have to do things….with personnel that isn’t used to doing it…bad things happen. But don’t give Izzo any credit
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Golden
Just curious, if MU had a team with a talent level that Stevie played 12-14 minutes, wouldn't that be a good thing?
They do have that talent, right now. They just can't keep him off the floor because he's so good.
Norman will be a very similar player with a better jumpshot so it will be interesting to see how they mesh.
This team is absolutely LOADED in the backcourt. I'd go as far as to say maybe the best Matquette has ever seen.
Our player of the year in the league isn't even the best scorer or defender of the bunch and they have depth behind each position.
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panda & GoFast
Now that season is over, I will voice my opinion on the players. Real quickly, I am not as sold on Sean Jones, love Mitchell as a person and think there are better options down the road. I would like to see a team that Mitchell is getting Sean type minutes next season. There are 4-5 guys that I 100% hope are back and not going to worry if several guys test the free agent market.
When it is all said and done, it is about winning. IMO, MU sucked on Sunday but some of the lack of individual talent was exposed. Did Shaka run a gimmick defense, and offense, maybe he did. But, I think it was a masterful job of making everyone better. Possibly, some new blood with higher talent levels changes everything in a positiveway.
Basically, this team was awesome and we all enjoyed it. As we sit here today, I would not be concerned if one of my nine favorites player left, provided it was not that guys with the most to offer next season. That said, if everyone is back, I would expect upside improvement across the board.
Shaka has repeatedly stated that he wishes he a team of 5 Stevie Mitchells. He loves the way SM plays. He loves Sm’s approach to life on and off the court. I think the best we can hope for is Stevie to become a real threat from the corner 3 and stronger finisher at the rim.
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Final Four
I cannot say one bad thing bad about Stevie as a person and very little as a player. My point is simple, if Norman, Ross, Jones or someone else took minutes away from Mitchell that would be a positive, not a negative. I hope Mitchell is at MU for his entire career. That said, I do not want to say guys should get minutes because I like them. Like everyone on here, I hope Mitchell is an a better version of himself next year and the next year.
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Except they weren’t completely unforced and those weren’t true layups. Beyond his thumb, Tyler was made uncomfortable. So were Chase and Jop. Give credit where it is due. Wojcik is a pro level scout.
While MSU did play hard on defense, I'm glad they schemed not to make Oso, OMax, or Kam uncomfortable.
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Mitchell is pretty irreplaceable and crucial to what Shaka wants to do. A little offensive confidence and he’ll be the complete package.
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Nickel
Not trying to be argumentative, but the best of my memory Stevie played the least minutes of any starter on average. Hey, I hope he comes back better and stronger next season and knocks it out of the park. IMO, my expectation of his ceiling is obviously different than the rest of your opinions. Trust me, I hope I am 100% wrong and was just offering my thoughts.
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Stevie’s defense is incredible. 2 points prevented are as good as 2 points scored. He brings great energy and enthusiasm to the floor. If he loses some minutes that would be a good thing for MU as it indicates more strong guards on the roster. I hope Stevie has great offensive development in the offseason.
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Judge
Agree across the board, especially if he loses any minutes it is a good thing for the program. It is impossible not to like Stevie and I hope he comes back a more confident offensive player next season.
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They are not mutually exclusive, as it seems you want it to be. When you go back and e the game, look at the gap defense that MSU played to start the game. We had no plan for that. When you have to do things….with personnel that isn’t used to doing it…bad things happen. But don’t give Izzo any credit
The reason we lost were turnovers. Not turnovers forced by a brilliant scheme from Izzo. Unforced, uncharacteristic, self inflicted turnovers.
Schematically, Izzo didn’t do anything differently than most opposing coaches tried to do to us. It makes a game plan look much better when Marquette plays far and away their worst game of the year and the point guard who spreads the floor incredibly well is injured and can’t execute in a way he has for the entire season.
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Nickel
Not trying to be argumentative, but the best of my memory Stevie played the least minutes of any starter on average. Hey, I hope he comes back better and stronger next season and knocks it out of the park. IMO, my expectation of his ceiling is obviously different than the rest of your opinions. Trust me, I hope I am 100% wrong and was just offering my thoughts.
It’s a healthy debate. Someone(s) will have a big summer. It’s not outlandish to think Ross (or others) has a higher ceiling than Mitchell and has a good chance to make a big jump next year. Mitchell may also have a great summer. It’s all a win for us. I have faith the team will understand their roles come next November, whatever they end up being. Expectations will be through the roof.
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It’s a healthy debate. Someone(s) will have a big summer. It’s not outlandish to think Ross (or others) has a higher ceiling than Mitchell and has a good chance to make a big jump next year. Mitchell may also have a great summer. It’s all a win for us. I have faith the team will understand their roles come next November, whatever they end up being. Expectations will be through the roof.
This is a great problem to have. Agree 100% Goose
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Well, unless MSU's defensive scheme was "stand right there until MU passes it to you". If so, it was quite effective
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Stevie’s defense is incredible. 2 points prevented are as good as 2 points scored. He brings great energy and enthusiasm to the floor. If he loses some minutes that would be a good thing for MU as it indicates more strong guards on the roster. I hope Stevie has great offensive development in the offseason.
2 points prevented and 2 points scored is even better... seems most love the team as is than the team getting even better...
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2 points prevented and 2 points scored is even better... seems most love the team as is than the team getting even better...
You don’t think if all the core guys came back the team wouldn’t get even better?
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Final Four
I cannot say one bad thing bad about Stevie as a person and very little as a player. My point is simple, if Norman, Ross, Jones or someone else took minutes away from Mitchell that would be a positive, not a negative. I hope Mitchell is at MU for his entire career. That said, I do not want to say guys should get minutes because I like them. Like everyone on here, I hope Mitchell is an a better version of himself next year and the next year.
agreed
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While MSU did play hard on defense, I'm glad they schemed not to make Oso, OMax, or Kam uncomfortable.
Good call, Tony. I shouldn’t have singled anyone out.
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Final Four
I cannot say one bad thing bad about Stevie as a person and very little as a player. My point is simple, if Norman, Ross, Jones or someone else took minutes away from Mitchell that would be a positive, not a negative. I hope Mitchell is at MU for his entire career. That said, I do not want to say guys should get minutes because I like them. Like everyone on here, I hope Mitchell is an a better version of himself next year and the next year.
I think Shaka is in agreement with you, and will continue to make Stevie the best version of himself that he can be. However, I wouldn’t expect his minutes to decrease.
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The reason we lost were turnovers. Not turnovers forced by a brilliant scheme from Izzo. Unforced, uncharacteristic, self inflicted turnovers.
Schematically, Izzo didn’t do anything differently than most opposing coaches tried to do to us. It makes a game plan look much better when Marquette plays far and away their worst game of the year and the point guard who spreads the floor incredibly well is injured and can’t execute in a way he has for the entire season.
I agree with this analysis.