"The Last Dance" open thread

[MU82]

Why?

Pippen was never the same after '98 with his back injury. His career as a star was over. Rodman was 37 and finished - he only played 35 more games in his career. Jordan was 35 and had the worst full season of his career in '98. Guys don't get better at that age.

On top of that, the team was absolutely physically and emotionally spent after the 3-peat. I think there was almost no chance that team could win another title if it had stayed together.

Totally disagree, sir.

At 38 years old and after taking 3 full years off from basketball, Jordan was averaging 25-6-5 in his first 50 games with the Wizards, playing 37 mpg, leading a bad team into the 6th position in the East, and was the popular choice for league MVP. He did suffer an injury a couple weeks later that killed their season, but I'm guessing he probably would have still been one of the league's 2-3 best players at 35 and 36.

His first year away from Chicago, at Houston, Pippen had decent stats but he and Barkley had a falling out and it ended up being a wasted year for him. The next two years, though, with Portland, he was a very good complementary player for a very good team. Had he and Jordan been re-signed for the next 3 years, he would have been even better as MJ's sidekick.

Kukoc was just entering his prime and would have been a big-time offensive player alongside Jordan and Pippen.

Harper was a valuable role player for two years with the Lakers, helping them win 2 titles.

They probably would have either talked Rodman into taking a 1-year, lowball offer or let him walk, so it would have been on Krause to find another good option the way he got Brian Williams (Bison Dele) for the '97 playoffs. Krause probably would have been able to get several good veterans to play with Jordan, Pippen and Kukoc. Jackson was arguably the best coach in league history.

Would they have won another title or two? We'll never know, but I'm quite sure they would have been favored at least in 1999 and probably 2000. They absolutely would have been top contenders.

Most franchises in most sports sell their souls just to have a legit shot at even one title. Those Bulls had the best player in the world, two outstanding sidekicks and the best coach in the world ... and they let 'em all walk rather than trying to win another title. Shame on Reinsdorf and Krause for their hubris and lack of vision.

[Jockey]

Totally disagree, sir.

........

Mike, you covered the team back then. What is your opinion of their mental/emotional state after their 3rd title of both 3-peats? Remember that they were playing 100+ games every year. When the team played 100 games, that meant Jordan played 100 games. There was no load management back in the 90s.

[MU82]

Mike, you covered the team back then. What is your opinion of their mental/emotional state after their 3rd title of both 3-peats? Remember that they were playing 100+ games every year. When the team played 100 games, that meant Jordan played 100 games. There was no load management back in the 90s.

Their mental/emotional state was spent ... but only a little bit because of the basketball itself IMHO. It was spent because they were told before the season that this was gonna be it. They had to put so much energy into ... well ... it being The Last Dance.

If instead of that, had Jackson, Jordan and Pippen all gotten 3-year contract extentions, their mental/emotional state would have been fine. They would have been plenty tired, just as they were at the end of 1996 and 1997, and just as the Warriors were at the end of each season of their recent run. But they would have been fine.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The last 2 minutes of episode 7 was something.

Dish I just watched this.  That was a human representation of leadership and striving for excellence.  While you can debate the how or the attitude, it showed that it is a lonely place out front. 

[DegenerateDish]

If the Bulls had brought back everyone in ‘99, they would have run away with the title.

The timing of the lockout was perfect. That next season doesn’t start until late January. Between the 50 game season and a lot of players showing up out of shape, Jordan would have willed that team to another title.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Loved the quote “that’s all I needed for it to become personal...”

[MU82]

If the Bulls had brought back everyone in ‘99, they would have run away with the title.

The timing of the lockout was perfect. That next season doesn’t start until late January. Between the 50 game season and a lot of players showing up out of shape, Jordan would have willed that team to another title.

Great point. They would have been rested and ready. And they would have had Michael. I'm not sure they would have "run away" with the title, as they didn't do that the previous season, but they would have been favorites. IMHO, they would have won it all.

And I was not then, nor am I now, nor have I ever been a Bulls fan.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If the Bulls had brought back everyone in ‘99, they would have run away with the title.

The timing of the lockout was perfect. That next season doesn’t start until late January. Between the 50 game season and a lot of players showing up out of shape, Jordan would have willed that team to another title.

I think they would have won the ECF, but that Spurs team was VERY good. 

[lawdog77]

I missed it, what were the 6 words Pip said to Karl Malone?

[cheebs09]

I missed it, what were the 6 words Pip said to Karl Malone?

Is this in reference to him saying “The Mailman doesn’t deliver on Sundays,” before Malone missed some key free throws?

[MU82]

Is this in reference to him saying “The Mailman doesn’t deliver on Sundays,” before Malone missed some key free throws?

That was it. You beat me to it, cheebs.

[tower912]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kevin-mchale-see-why-pistons-180701586.html


Kevin McHale weighs in.   

[wadesworld]

Now that was awesome.

[TallTitan34]

Jerry Krause’s explanation from an unpublished memoir:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jerry-krause-explains-why-bulls-dynasty-unraveled-his-words

[MU82]

Jerry Krause’s explanation from an unpublished memoir:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/jerry-krause-explains-why-bulls-dynasty-unraveled-his-words

Jordan disagreed with that narrative. And so do I.

Anyhoo ... I really enjoyed the series. A lot of fun, very well-told, brought back some great memories, provided some new insights.

[DegenerateDish]

I don’t mean this as criticism of the doc, the filmmakers did a great job, especially to rush by 3 months to get this out early.

These are just little things I wish would have got either air time or more air time. I fully realize there’s only so many ways they could go and only so much time.

-I don’t think Ron Harper got any airtime outside of his non guarding of Jordan in ‘89. He was a popular teammate and changed his game to be an integral part of those teams.

-Bison Dele (to me) would have been a fascinating segment to dive into. Dele arguably better than Rodman that year, and the mystery around his death is a story worth telling.

-I think Pippen got shortchanged. I don’t know how that narrative should have got fixed though.

-Plenty of fabled stories left out, from Hue Hollins in 94, “Mailman don’t deliver on Sunday’s”, Jordan being iced out of the ASG.

These are just nitpicks, I give the producers a ton of credit for rushing this up. What they left on the cutting room floor could probably be its own 5 part series.

[Warrior Code]

I don’t mean this as criticism of the doc, the filmmakers did a great job, especially to rush by 3 months to get this out early.

These are just little things I wish would have got either air time or more air time. I fully realize there’s only so many ways they could go and only so much time.

-I don’t think Ron Harper got any airtime outside of his non guarding of Jordan in ‘89. He was a popular teammate and changed his game to be an integral part of those teams.

-Bison Dele (to me) would have been a fascinating segment to dive into. Dele arguably better than Rodman that year, and the mystery around his death is a story worth telling.

-I think Pippen got shortchanged. I don’t know how that narrative should have got fixed though.

-Plenty of fabled stories left out, from Hue Hollins in 94, “Mailman don’t deliver on Sunday’s”, Jordan being iced out of the ASG.

These are just nitpicks, I give the producers a ton of credit for rushing this up. What they left on the cutting room floor could probably be its own 5 part series.

And I'd sign up to watch it in a heartbeat

[BM1090]

If Reinsdorf didn't agree with Krause's strategy he could have fired him at anytime. It's odd to me that he's escaped criticism.

[dgies9156]

Imagine for a moment that any of us had a boss who said in February or March, "your job is over at the end of the year."

If there's no reason for it, other than the boss wants to reconfigure, OK. That's his right. But I'm amazed the Bulls had enough pride to push to the championship one more time.

Krause was a good general manger. But he was an idiot for the way he handled Phil Jackson and Jordan as well as the team. You had a group of guys who were the best in their business and he was so full of himself that he was convinced he could build another Bulls. He was nuts. Michael Jordan comes around once in a generation. And, the talent and coaching he had around Jordan comes around less frequently than that. You stick with it as long as you can.

As for Scottie, he should have found a way to open and extend the contract and reward Pippin for uncharacteristically strong contributions to the franchise. Maybe a bonus for what he had accomplished.

[GBPhoenix1993]

After watching the final episodes, I am convinced Michael Jordan is probably the only person alive who could say "F you bitch!" to Larry Bird and not have Larry Bird beat the living crap out of him. It was just done in fun but I don't think there's more than a handful of people in the world who could talk that way to Bird and have Bird just walk away with a slight smile on his face.

[WarriorFan]

Great documentary.  A different era, a different style of basketball, but for my lifetime MJ will always be the GOAT.

I was a little disappointed as well that there wasn't more about Ron Harper.  He was an integral piece of the puzzle and - before his injury - had jordan-esque athleticism.  His body changed his game after the injury and he was never more than 80% of his young self but to take that and still play a major role on title teams is important.

I'm waiting for the next 10 episodes!!!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Great documentary.  A different era, a different style of basketball, but for my lifetime MJ will always be the GOAT.

I was a little disappointed as well that there wasn't more about Ron Harper.  He was an integral piece of the puzzle and - before his injury - had jordan-esque athleticism.  His body changed his game after the injury and he was never more than 80% of his young self but to take that and still play a major role on title teams is important.

I'm waiting for the next 10 episodes!!!

Wonder if Harper didnt want to be seen with his speech issues (which i believe he corrected with speech therapy later, but was an issue when he was with the Bulls.

[MU82]

If Reinsdorf didn't agree with Krause's strategy he could have fired him at anytime. It's odd to me that he's escaped criticism.

I wouldn't say Reinsdorf escaped criticism at all. He was criticized quite heavily back in the late-90s and into the aughts for his role in the Bulls going from champions to laughingstocks.

And in Ep 10, Jordan looked into the camera and criticized his fellow NBA owner.

[cheebs09]

Seeing a lot of doubting about the Food Poisoning story. Many seem to think Jordan was hungover.

Which is a little interesting because the opposite was the reaction for the thought his first retirement being a suspension. Everyone called that theory ridiculous and his father being killed due to his gambling was offensive.

Granted, what it would mean if each were true is far different scales, but just interesting to see the differences in reaction to different theories.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Seeing a lot of doubting about the Food Poisoning story. Many seem to think Jordan was hungover.

Which is a little interesting because the opposite was the reaction for the thought his first retirement being a suspension. Everyone called that theory ridiculous and his father being killed due to his gambling was offensive.

Granted, what it would mean if each were true is far different scales, but just interesting to see the differences in reaction to different theories.

I think it was either food poisoning or a 24 hour bug.

The food poisoning angle allows Jordan to feel he has to overcome something did to him by someone else.  Similar to how turns any slight into a motivation tactic.