"The Last Dance" open thread

[cheebs09]

The subject's "passion" has nothing to do with anything. I'm pretty sure most athletes, coaches and GMs in all sports have "passion" for what they do. Does that mean all of them should beyond criticism? If Tom Brady decided to give up football to play basketball, and if he was horrible at basketball, should nobody criticize him because basketball is his "passion"? Does the fact that Wojo is passionate about Marquette basketball mean that Scoop shouldn't even exist?

I have no problem with SI's writer doing an opinion piece - which is exactly what that was - and there is absolutely no "unwritten rule" that a writer doing such an article talk to the subject. I mean, I wrote many a "Wannstedt has to go" and "Jauron has to go" and "McNown has to go" columns without asking Wannstedt, Jauron and McNown about it every time. Then again, none of those clowns was Michael Jordan, and sure, it would have been classy for the SI writer to talk to him before writing it.

I disagree with Sultan that Jordan had no chance at the majors; I firmly believe that if the 1995 season had played out as scheduled, without the lockout, Jordan would have stayed in baseball and Reinsdorf would have made sure he was brought up to Chicago that September. The 1995 White Sox sucked, and they often had trouble convincing 20K people to watch them. Jordan would have guaranteed many sellouts, both at home and on the road, in what otherwise turned out to be a month to completely ignore.

Now, whether Jordan actually would have earned such a promotion, and whether he would have been good enough ever to be more than a September cup-of-coffee call-up, those are entirely different issues. I certainly agree that it is highly unlikely Jordan would have been good enough to make a big-league ballclub out of spring training.

As for all the gambling suspension stuff, especially with the links to James Jordan's death, I remember thinking back then that it was handled extremely poorly by many members of the media. Particularly TV outlets, but also unfortunately some sportswriters, even guys who weren't considered hacks. I wasn't surprised to see it from the likes of the NY Post and National Enquirer, but I was disappointed that so many members of the legitimate media piled on. Such poor judgment gives people like rocket - who blindly excuses and justifies the daily atrocities of his favorite politician - permission to stamp all "journalists" with one "enemy of the people" label.

I don’t know if it’s painting a rosier picture 25 years later, but it sounds like people thought Jordan had the talent to make it to MLB. Hitting .200 after not playing since high school, is pretty impressive for that level. People also said the amount he improved from the beginning to end of season was incredible. In Fall League, he hit .250.

I also would be surprised if Jordan did this to just check the box. He doesn’t seem to do anything to just check a box.

[wadesworld]

I enjoyed this series, but hoped for a mention of the two NBA championships of my Houston Rockets ...but, alas,  I have come to accept I live not in Clutch City but rather in Asterisk Town:

93/94 NBA Houston Rockets * (the Bulls/MJ simply were on a break)

2017 MLB Houston Astericks * (MLB didnt need to take the trophy away--everyone else, including history, already has)

1982-83 NCAA Houston Cougars, a/k/a Phi Slamma Jamma * (Not even a champ, thanks to Jimmy V's NC State)

1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 WBNA Houston Comets* (Its the "Womens" NBA, not even the jv or even frosh level, hello)

1960, 1961 AFL Houston Oilers* (seriously, did the AFL even exist pre color TV?)

Our Htown population may soon approach No. 3 Chicago but rest assured  for sports fandom success Chitown will always be better Congrats to the Bulls-- that was a great run

At least your Rockets can always put the asterisk on the Warriors with the internal audit the Rockets ran on the Western Conference Finals that they claim to have really won.

[rocket surgeon]

Again, who cares if its his dream?  He is a professional athlete playing a sport pretty poorly.  Here is the article.  It's harsh, but I don't think it's unfair.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1994/03/14/err-jordan-try-as-he-might-michael-jordan-has-found-baseball-beyong-his-grasp

Sure he didn't talk to SI again, but that's just what he did to get fired up.

you're right fluff-who cares?  well, i don't.  mj evidently did or he would have spoken to SI post article.  Si i'm sure cared but accepted the consequences.   i don't think i was faulting either one.  SI writes stories to sell and mj can do what he wants.  just saying SI burned a bridge to the most populat athlete at the time...again...who cares, just saying that's all

[rocket surgeon]

           "legitimate media "


 

If anyone knows "hot takes that backfire for $800, Alex," it's this guy right here.

bwahahaahahaha  bwhahahah haha ha hahah ah ha

[MU82]

I don’t know if it’s painting a rosier picture 25 years later, but it sounds like people thought Jordan had the talent to make it to MLB. Hitting .200 after not playing since high school, is pretty impressive for that level. People also said the amount he improved from the beginning to end of season was incredible. In Fall League, he hit .250.

I also would be surprised if Jordan did this to just check the box. He doesn’t seem to do anything to just check a box.

Yessir. The guy did drive in 50 runs in AA after not touching a bat for years. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that, with continued improvement, he could have made it. Highly unlikely, IMHO, because big-league pitchers would have been brutal on him, but not impossible.

And totally agree with your second paragraph. Michael didn't just want a walk in the park.

If anyone knows "hot takes that backfire for $800, Alex," it's this guy right here.

Dribble.

           "legitimate media "


 

bwahahaahahaha  bwhahahah haha ha hahah ah ha

I'm willing to debate the role of the media with you all day long, rocket, but I'd rather not let you ruin this thread as you seem to be trying to do. I want to keep this on topic, about The Last Dance and related things.

So either PM me, or take your barely coherent ramblings over to one of the wild-west threads on the COVID board.

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Also, no one came off looking better in tonight’s episodes than Hue Hollins.

I went the entire decade of the 90's without thinking about Scott Burrell as much as I did last night.

[wadesworld]

Am I the only one who was shocked when they showed Jud Buechler as a forward for the Bulls during his interview?  I would've sworn he was a journalist and not a player.

[MU82]

The two things I liked most about last night's episodes:

1. Kerr and Jordan recounting the details of their fist-fight. Back then, in real time, they had denied that anything happened, but of course details leaked out pretty quickly.

2. Jordan laughing out loud when Payton's comments were relayed. It was cocky, "get that shyte outta here" Michael at his finest.

The thing I liked least:

Jordan saying Payton's defense had absolutely nothing to do with Jordan's less-effective play in Games 4 and 5, suggesting instead that he was thinking of his dad even though Father's Day was still several days away.

Occasionally, MJ actually was outplayed, even when he was in his prime. It rarely happened for more than a game or two, and he usually got revenge big-time, as he did in Game 6. But to claim that he didn't play well in Game 4 on June 12 because he was thinking about Father's Day, which was two games and four days away ... 

For a guy who prided himself on being able to tune out all distractions and destroy his opponent like an assassin, that seemed a lame excuse.

+++

Related ...

Steve Kerr was not much more than an afterthought when the Bulls signed him before the 1993-94 season. He was seen as eventually replacing Paxson, but he wasn't as good as Paxson.

We lived near Lane Tech and on a Saturday afternoon in the fall of 1995 Kerr appeared at the Dominick's right down the street to sign autographs. My son, who was 8 years old, found a Kerr basketball card and begged me to take him, so we walked over there. There were no fans there when we arrived, nor did anyone else show up as he talked with my son for about 10 minutes (very, very nice of him BTW), nor was anyone else coming up to see him as we left the store.

He might as well have been Jud or Dickey.

Obviously, he ended up having some big moments for the Bulls after Michael returned, including a title-clinching shot. Michael eventually made him a ton of money, as Kerr got a way-too-big contract from San Antonio. And of course Kerr has gone on to be a great coach, and he was an outstanding announcer, too.

But for 15+ minutes in 1995, nobody gave a rat's rump that Steve Kerr was signing autographs for free at Dominick's. Had he done the same even a year later, when everybody associated with Michael & The Bulls achieved rock-star status, there probably would have been a line out the door.

[TallTitan34]

Batting .202 in Double A after not playing 14 years at age 31 is remarkable to me.  95% of players start in Rookie ball or A ball around age 20 or so.

With his work ethic I think he would be more than able to adjust to the pitchers.  The biggest obstacle to him making the majors in my opinion would have been his age.  Baseball players tend to decline around age 33.

[TallTitan34]

I went the entire decade of the 90's without thinking about Scott Burrell as much as I did last night.

I love the amount of disrespect in this clip.

[jesmu84]

Batting .202 in Double A after not playing 14 years at age 31 is remarkable to me.  95% of players start in Rookie ball or A ball around age 20 or so.

With his work ethic I think he would be more than able to adjust to the pitchers.  The biggest obstacle to him making the majors in my opinion would have been his age.  Baseball players tend to decline around age 33.

There was a lot of chatter from current/former baseball players on twitter last night stating that Jordan's baseball stats were definitely impressive, all things consideres.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

BTW, I saw Dickey Simpkins last night and got a shudder down my spine.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

BTW, I saw Dickey Simpkins last night and got a shudder down my spine.

Liar.  You got a hashtag shudder down your spine.

[TallTitan34]

BTW, I saw Dickey Simpkins last night and got a shudder down my spine.

Was really hoping he'd be the target of MJ.  Dickey was always my least favorite Bull haha.

[DegenerateDish]

Dickey Simpkins and Brad Sellers are two Bulls players who couldn't handle the MJ pressure. I'm sure I'm missing a few more.

[jesmu84]

I paused the tv for about five minutes after episode 7. The culmination of his father’s death to how that episode ended was heavy. The series could have ended right there. I’ll be curious to see how they end it next week, because the last two minutes of episode 7 was near perfect.

Notice that when the Bulls are running suicides at the beginning of the end of that episode, Jordan is dominating the sprint.

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1259824027515879425?s=20



https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2421916/the-end-of-episode-7-of-the-last-dance-will-be-my-lasting-image-of-michael-jordan

"Michael Jordan is very well aware of the fact that Mike Jordan from Wilmington, North Carolina is dead and that Michael Jordan killed him."

Episode 7 was by far my favorite.

[rocket surgeon]

Yessir. The guy did drive in 50 runs in AA after not touching a bat for years. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that, with continued improvement, he could have made it. Highly unlikely, IMHO, because big-league pitchers would have been brutal on him, but not impossible.

And totally agree with your second paragraph. Michael didn't just want a walk in the park.

Dribble.

I'm willing to debate the role of the media with you all day long, rocket, but I'd rather not let you ruin this thread as you seem to be trying to do. I want to keep this on topic, about The Last Dance and related things.

So either PM me, or take your barely coherent ramblings over to one of the wild-west threads on the COVID board.

   82  i agree with you that jordan had the athletic ability and drive to very possibly make it to the show.  his work ethic and competitive spirit was 2nd to none plus the draw of MJ would have been business no brainers

ruin thread??  one little bomb toss and i'm ruining a thread?  and you've locked down how many in just the past 6-12 mos?  fresh air man.  more fluids and social distancing

[MU82]

   82  i agree with you that jordan had the athletic ability and drive to very possibly make it to the show.  his work ethic and competitive spirit was 2nd to none plus the draw of MJ would have been business no brainers

ruin thread??  one little bomb toss and i'm ruining a thread?  and you've locked down how many in just the past 6-12 mos?  fresh air man.  more fluids and social distancing

None. But otherwise, I'll give you the last word.

[wadesworld]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAEFSmiBQ_o/?igshid=m86tqbed2l7o

The internet is still undefeated.

[Lennys Tap]

I found it a bit hypocritical Reinsdorf paid Jordan his Bulls contract while he played baseball, but wouldn’t renegotiate Pippen’s deal. He even said some of the reasoning was due to Jordan being underpaid.

I don’t see it as hypocritical. Reinsdorf also paid Jay Williams after he fell off a motorcycle his contract said he shouldn’t be driving. Deciding to be generous to guys not playing is different than renegotiating a contract that you counseled a player against signing but who demanded it. That’s a precedent he didn’t want to set.

[rocket surgeon]

i forgot how much of a jerk krause was...and he thought he was the coolest kid on the block

[Lennys Tap]

i forgot how much of a jerk krause was...and he thought he was the coolest kid on the block

Actually, rocket, Krause knew he was uncool as it gets - but he was a good scout and desperately wanted his “due”. And he alienated Phil and the players trying to get it at what seemed like their expense.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah from all indications he was a nice guy. Just had a Napoleon complex.

[jesmu84]

https://youtu.be/e0Dlc1NYMIE

Pretty incredible. The last few minutes of episode 7 took place during the first day of interviews for the documentary. And just minutes after discussing/having a laugh about the early bulls cocaine use.

[Jockey]

I think 1995-96 was the top of the hill.  They definitely were trending down (age, injuries) but I think they had one more title run in them.

Why?

Pippen was never the same after '98 with his back injury. His career as a star was over. Rodman was 37 and finished - he only played 35 more games in his career. Jordan was 35 and had the worst full season of his career in '98. Guys don't get better at that age.

On top of that, the team was absolutely physically and emotionally spent after the 3-peat. I think there was almost no chance that team could win another title if it had stayed together.