COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[StillAWarrior]

She has no hesitation, however, about going in every day to care for these folks, and I am very proud of her.

As you should be. Thank her for all of us.

[WarriorDad]

That is absolutely damning.

"Mr. Trump was walking up the steps of Air Force One to head home from India on Feb. 25 when Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, publicly issued the blunt warning they had all agreed was necessary.

But Dr. Messonnier had jumped the gun. They had not told the president yet, much less gotten his consent.

On the 18-hour plane ride home, Mr. Trump fumed as he watched the stock market crash after Dr. Messonnier’s comments. Furious, he called Mr. Azar when he landed at around 6 a.m. on Feb. 26, raging that Dr. Messonnier had scared people unnecessarily."


FEBRUARY 25!!!!

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Yep.  Gaslighting all the way. 

And Fauci has already said that he underestimated certain aspects of this.  But there was still plenty of time after person to person transmission was confirmed.

[WarriorDad]

Well, the excess (above $1B each) for the US billionaires is $2.6T. That is roughly 12% of the entire US GDP. It would amount to $8k for every single American.

Also, I didn't mean "literally long enough to wait out a vaccine/cure". But it could buy 3-4 months.

Wall Street Journal this week an article about billionaires and specifically Bill Gates.  The question was if Warren (whom I would not have voted for if she won the nomination) and others pushing wealth tax had their way what would happen to the generosity and commitment of billionaires?  The paper honed on the vaccine push he is self funding in parallel with what world governments are doing.  The argument may me that the money would go to the government to fund more research, but sometimes you need an outside view without government bureaucracy to obtain an outcome.  I support the idea of public and private push for a vaccine, would that be possible if some policies presented were enacted years ago? 

Billionaires have their uses. https://www.wsj.com/articles/billionaires-have-their-uses-11586301710

[rocky_warrior]

Why is this thread listed under "child boards"? What that mean

COVID-19 board is a child of the superbar, which is it's parent board, which naturally must be similar to the Komodo dragon - it can have virgin births.

[WarriorDad]

Wow ... lots here, rocket.

1. Elections Have Consequences. Totally agree. So let me ask you this ... Did the 2018 election also have consequences? You know, the one in which suburban women were so repulsed by the president that they showed up in droves to turn House districts that had been Republican for decades over to the Dems. Which, of course, led to the impeachment that you so often decry. Don't like it? Tough! Elections have consequences!

As for the consequences of the 2016 election, we're certainly seeing them now. We as a country elected a man who ran on a platform of science denial, who spent years appointing unqualified people to important jobs (and firing them and hiring the next group of unqualified hacks), who was uniquely unprepared for the presidency, and who cares only about himself. Tens of thousands dead, and probably more, not to mention all those scarred for life physically, financially and emotionally.

Do you believe someone else would have handled differently in an election year? I do not, from either party.  In my view they would have waited as long when WHO and CDC said nothing to worry about in late January.

In 2010 our side lost heavily in the midterms.  Was it due to repulsion by suburban women?  The President’s party suffers in the midterms normally.  Reagan, Clinton, Obama, Trump, LBJ, Grant, Carter, Taft.  This is normal.

2018 saw an increase in the Senate for his party, that has happened only seven times in history where a president saw a gain in either the House or Senate.  Bush was the one exception that saw a gain in the House and Senate in 2002.  That had only happened twice in history. 

[GooooMarquette]

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Perhaps that will be his argument, and perhaps people will buy it. I suspect some will.

But how can he rationalize not getting the CDC out on the tip of the spear right now? The CDC was formed specifically for the purpose of disease control and prevention, and only it is uniquely qualified to do and/or coordinate the large-scale testing and contact tracing that will be required to reopen the economy. (See the links I posted earlier describing CDC’s Mission Statement, it’s accomplishments in the H1N1 outbreak, and the NYT description of what CDC is capable of.) The fragmented system we now have - the result of CDC sitting on the sidelines - clearly isn’t getting it done fast enough.

How can he rationalize that away?

[WarriorDad]

Might be true in Germany, but the US of A has wayyyyy more fat pepole, diabetic people, and people with heart disease than Germany. No way our mortality rate is that low.

3% is certainly high (mild/asymptomatic cases being undercounted), but I'd be very, very surprised if USA's mortality rate is under 1%.

Fauci suggests it may be considerably less than 1% in late February before major actions were taken.  He is the CDC and a scientist.  These are the people the administration listens to.  When we say here listen to the scientists it sounds as though that has happened and their opinions keep changing.  The models do, too.

Now, he still says low at 60000 total US deaths as a result of actions taken.  Confusing?  It leads me to believe the scientists do not really know and this has been a reaction based answer from the start.  Watching his interviews today strengthens that belief.  We all want our scientists and medical people to have the answers.  As he said today, they didn’t and this continues to evolve and the prediction games are nothing but games.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/926089

[forgetful]

Fauci suggests it may be considerably less than 1% in late February before major actions were taken.  He is the CDC and a scientist.  These are the people the administration listens to.  When we say here listen to the scientists it sounds as though that has happened and their opinions keep changing.  The models do, too.

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

[wadesworld]

We know. We get it. China lied. The doctors believed him. The administration acted as quickly as possible and couldn’t have handled it any better.

 

[WarriorDad]

In all honesty, both of them concern me because they would be in their mid-80s by the end of a second term. That said, I would take a good man in decline over the current occupant of the office.

And FWIW - if Biden or Bernie were elected and then lost it, I am confident they would have the grace to willingly hand the reins over to their VP.

The sexual assault allegations are coming out now and serve as the vehicle to remove him.  In my opinion some of these are coming from within the party as they want Biden out.  His mental acuity is troubling. This is how it will be done if I had to guess.  He will not make it to August.  He will be exposed in the debates and heavy scrutiny of a campaign.  Cannot hose him that long.  That will leave the party with a recruitment of Cuomo or Newsome, or maybe someone more moderate like Klobuchar. 

[Jay Bee]

Govt is just trying to delay the inevitable rioting, looting, etc that will occur. The world is at its end. Good night and God bless.

[HutchwasClutch]

The world is at its end. Good night

🙄

[Jay Bee]

🙄

What makes you believe otherwise? Naive.

[rocky_warrior]

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

You keep mentioning January. Leaving out things said in Feb & early Mar. The CDC sounded the alarm bells on Feb 25, the prez didn't like their message, so imposed his will on them. See a few posts back.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1231926#msg1231926

[injuryBug]

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

I will agree we do not have actual numbers on the cases or deaths.  That said I would say the number of cases is far beyond the number of deaths we do not know and thus pushes the number down rather than up.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is scary in and of itself (meat processors rife with virus or supply shock to the food chain).

However it stresses why we need the system Goooo has been advocating.  There is no ‘open’ or ‘closed’ choices. Plants across the country are facing versions of this (sick closures or absenteeism) when the virus spreads uncontrolled and untracked.

  https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html

[forgetful]

I will agree we do not have actual numbers on the cases or deaths.  That said I would say the number of cases is far beyond the number of deaths we do not know and thus pushes the number down rather than up.

We are in agreement. The post I was replying to was highlighting how wrong Fauci was for saying the death rate might be below 1%. Highlighting that even the scientists got it wrong. But, Fauci was referring to the true mortality rate, if all cases and all deaths were known.

The original post was not understanding the science, and the data, and how they differ. I actually believe he did understand it, but was ignoring it to push an agenda.

[Jay Bee]

the prez didn't like their message, so imposed his will on them.

No politics, hey?

What a disgrace.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Govt is just trying to delay the inevitable rioting, looting, etc that will occur. The world is at its end. Good night and God bless.

[pbiflyer]

Coronavirus Florida: The last human being I touched was exactly one month ago

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200411/coronavirus-florida-last-human-being-i-touched-was-exactly-one-month-ago

Article in the Palm Beach Post from one of their writers, a Marquette grad.

I didn’t think much of it at the time, other than it might make a good Facebook picture and get some laughs online.

It was the night of Wednesday, March 11. I had flown from West Palm to New York City that day for the Big East Tournament to watch my alma mater, Marquette, for the four-day basketball extravaganza in front of sold-out crowds at Madison Square Garden.

[Jockey]

His reaction is damning and often is because he wants to be in charge.  The question whether anything should have been done sooner based on the real information given to him is the actual question. 

Here is what the argument will be to his supporters.  Fauci, a scientist, said Americans should not be worried in January. He was interviews this morning and confirmed. WHO, scientists and health officials, in January said this is animal to human only, not human to human. 

On March 1st the US had one death.  By the time the US shut down travel to China, a position opposed by significantly powerful voices at the time, other powerful nations had not done so.  They have scientists and spies, too.  The Navarro memo said a huge number could die, it also said the number could be zero.  It wasn’t a range of 100k to 500k, but nothing to a high number.  The worst kind of advice because it is so extreme.

My son sent this to me today, this is exactly the playbook he will run.  Sharing this to illustrate how that side will argue their case.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1249372642454515712?s=21

Just make sure you forget to mention that all he had to go on was the Chinese data which was at best unreliable - at worst, a coverup. I suppose he could have talked to our people in China who were there solely to investigate possible pandemics ... oh wait, Trump fired them all.

Fauci has followed the data right from the start. As data increased and evolved, so did his recommendations.


I understand the right is trying to deflect blame from our utterly incompetent leaders, but most people know better. I mean we still have people on this board who say "everyone who wants a test can get a test".
Admittedly, it's guys like ziggy and rocket brain, which says a lot, but they are part of the "I take no responsibility at all" cabal. My guess is that you are part of that group as well.

[Eldon]

I think the bigger problems are that people don't understand science, and then misreport on what science says.

There is a difference between the "actual" mortality rate being less than 1%, and the reported US mortality rate being higher. The former is independent of anything, and is an intrinsic aspect of the disease. It assumes that proper healthcare is accessible, and the demographics of a nation follow normal distributions.

The latter is extremely dependent on testing. We are nowhere near accurate in the reported number of cases, or the total number of deaths.

I think you are well aware of this, but are intentionally ignoring these aspects to push your agenda. That is the biggest problem, people intentionally distort science to push political agendas. That simultaneously decreases peoples trust in science, and increases the lack of science literacy in our nation.

Forecasting mortality rates is a science?  News to me.

Epidemiology is an inexact science, not all that different than weather forecasting--or, dare I say it, economic forecasting. 

Scientists, and those who posture as one, should learn some humility.

[Johnny B]

COVID-19 board is a child of the superbar, which is it's parent board, which naturally must be similar to the Komodo dragon - it can have virgin births.

Makes sense to me

[🏀]

Wonder what Chicos thinks about all of this. All quarantined up in California. Sitting on the porch, washing his manly F-150 and watering his lawn.

Definitely not on Scoop at all with all this free time.

Does he name drop to the children or the dog? Send texts to Peyton and Eli?