MLB 2023-2024 Offseason

[Uncle Rico]

What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He’s made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.

He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they’ve made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that’s 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.

To spend like the Padres and win as much as they do

[GB Warrior]

What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He’s made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.

He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they’ve made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that’s 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.

To recognize windows of opportunity with homegrown talent and spend like you want to maximize it vs hope for positive variance.

I don't have any problem with them bottoming out payroll in exchange for not trotting out a AAA offense when you have elite pitching.

[MU82]

From Yahoo Sports:

23 years ago today ...

Alex Rodriguez signed a 10-year, $252 million contract with the Texas Rangers. At the time, it was by far the largest contract in team sports history.

According to sportrac, that is now "only" the 18th-largest contract in MLB history.

[CreightonWarrior]

What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He’s made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.

He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they’ve made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that’s 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.

Mark is worth roughly $700 million per google. Ideally I'd like for him to liquidate all his assets and go out and get Ohtani...not much to ask really.

[wadesworld]

To recognize windows of opportunity with homegrown talent and spend like you want to maximize it vs hope for positive variance.

I don't have any problem with them bottoming out payroll in exchange for not trotting out a AAA offense when you have elite pitching.

I think he has.  Early on, the Brewers had a chance to make the Playoffs for the first time in decades and he went out and got CC.  Same story, but this time to win a division and he went out and got Greinke, who still had an extra year on his contract.  CC walked, and they traded Greinke before he walked.  Would it be cool to spend to sign those guys to long term contracts?  Sure.  But with no payroll, teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can pay twice what the Brewers can.  They just can't keep those guys, or Burnes or Woody.  It's just not realistic.

In 2018 they went out and got guys like Mike Moustakas, Jonathan Schoop (didn't work out, but he was good before the trade).  Then got Yasmani Grandal the next year.

When it looks like there's a chance, Mark takes it.  When they're multiple moves away (the last 2 years), it's tough to fill multiple holes at one trade deadline.

Now he's got a time to rebuild the roster fairly quickly.

[4everwarriors]

And that's why ya lose managers like Craig too, aina?

#alsoran

[Uncle Rico]

And that's why ya lose managers like Craig too, aina?

#alsoran

You wanted Craig fired

[4everwarriors]

Don't put words in my mouth. I stated he would not be back. That's exactly what happened, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Don't put words in my mouth. I stated he would not be back. That's exactly what happened, aina?

You’ve been whining about Counsell the last 2 years like you whine about all coaches and managers

[4everwarriors]

Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?

OOooooo....  slick burn there.

[Uncle Rico]

Not as much as you bitched about Rodgers, hey?

Probably true, but as true as you wanting Counsell dumped

[DegenerateDish]

What a slick move by Ohtani & the Dodgers. I can’t believe there’s no interest on those deferrals.

[jficke13]

He’s either going to do the C-Suite thing or taking loans against future earnings or watch him roll deferred earnings into a post-retirement buy in to an ownership stake.

[JWags85]

He’s either going to do the C-Suite thing or taking loans against future earnings or watch him roll deferred earnings into a post-retirement buy in to an ownership stake.

I saw some interesting tweets speculating that it was about rolling forward potential tax sheltering/mitigation, which would at least seemingly explain the losses on interest and time value of money.

[MUBurrow]

Holy crap do I hate it.  That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.

[WhiteTrash]

Holy crap do I hate it.  That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.

Kicking the can down the road has worked for the USA, right?

[MUBurrow]

Kicking the can down the road has worked for the USA, right?

Allowing teams to reduce the luxury tax hit with deferrals is just so unnecessary on every level. To the extent baseball writers thought Ohtani’s free agency had import for the sport, this is legit worse than the worst possible outcome. “What if the highest payroll team in the league drums up a payment scheme that is impossible for the average fan to understand AND that allows them to escape the luxury tax consequences of signing a generational player on the open market?”

[GB Warrior]

Holy crap do I hate it.  That's the kind of thing I think is actually bad for the sport.

Terrible for the sport. They'll sign Yamamoto just to top it off. Not that less wealthy franchises have any say (and half of them don't compete in good faith) but if I were say the Padres, I'd be livid at this

[MU82]

Reportedly, it was Ohtani's idea. He wants the Dodgers to have all the capital they need to build a superteam around him.

As for it being bad for the sport, we'll see. So many things have happened in the last 50 years that supposedly were going to permanently damage MLB - from free agency to the 1994 lockout to steroids to others - but none of them did.

Could this? Perhaps. We'll see.

[tower912]

He thought Bobby Bonilla was a forward thinking trend setter.

[Pakuni]

Terrible for the sport. They'll sign Yamamoto just to top it off. Not that less wealthy franchises have any say (and half of them don't compete in good faith) but if I were say the Padres, I'd be livid at this

Why? What would prevent the Padres from doing something similar?
If anything - and I may be mistaken, as I'm not an expert on financing - but wouldn't being able to defer payments benefit a less cash-rich franchise?

[MUBurrow]

Why? What would prevent the Padres from doing something similar?
If anything - and I may be mistaken, as I'm not an expert on financing - but wouldn't being able to defer payments benefit a less cash-rich franchise?

I don't disagree with this in principle.  Especially since as 82 mentions, Ohtani was the one who was looking for a bigger dollar figure in exchange for deferrals because he is earning so much in endorsements.  My issue is twofold. 

One is that the more convoluted the bookeeping, the more difficult for fans to track and care about the hot stove and to accurately be able to judge their own teams/owners.  Money gets moved around in the NFL too, but with payrolls more or less equivalent due to the salary cap, that doesn't really reflect on an owner's willingness to pay players to be competitive.  In the MLB its different because of the luxury tax structure and payroll discrepancies - adding in tons of deferred money only further clouds that and distances the fans from the product.

The second issue is downstream, which is that while deferred money could theoretically help smaller market teams - it won't.  I think that if Milwaukee, Tampa, Cleveland, Miami, or Kansas City were adding $680M in deferred comp to their books, the MLB would have a conniption.  Those teams can't reasonably carry that type of liability without materially affecting the value of the franchise and the stability of the ownership group.  As a loose comparison, look at how the Jeter group had to sell off all of Miami's good players after buying the team from Loria because they were so leveraged to come up with the purchase price.  So while deferred money can help small market teams when used sparingly, only the franchises most immune from financial turbulence can actually use it to maintain spending flexibility while signing top players. 

[Jockey]

Yes, people. Capitalism sucks.

[WhiteTrash]

MUBurrow, I'd also add the deferred money is intended to help only those teams going over the cap/into the tax. That is not a situation the small market teams deal with.

While I agree this is a strategy to circumvent the tax and thus reduce revenues to small markets, I think you have to recognize the Dodgers have made a very big bet on Ohtani's health. The "experts" after his injury were guessing on a $300M-$400M deal and the Dodgers went about double. How often does that happen? Tip of the cap for having 'onions'.