MLB 2023-2024 Offseason

[MUBurrow]

Its kind of hard for me to have an opinion on the deal becuase it just means that MLB payrolls/luxury tax are fake. $60M or whatever this deal will count against the tax each year is objectively crippling, even for Ohtani, if the luxury tax is serious or has a role in a team's spending decisions.  But if you're the Mets or the Dodgers now or soon the Yankees or whoever, none of it matters and ownership has just priced in paying the tax and repeater penalties forever (or fighting those in the next CBA), so good for them, I guess?

[HutchwasClutch]

Its kind of hard for me to have an opinion on the deal becuase it just means that MLB payrolls/luxury tax are fake. $60M or whatever this deal will count against the tax each year is objectively crippling, even for Ohtani, if the luxury tax is serious or has a role in a team's spending decisions.  But if you're the Mets or the Dodgers now or soon the Yankees or whoever, none of it matters and ownership has just priced in paying the tax and repeater penalties forever (or fighting those in the next CBA), so good for them, I guess?

Baseball is a joke in that respect, a luxury tax so weak apparently none of the uber wealthy teams/owners care at all about and no salary cap.  The other three major American sports leagues all have to heavily weigh what they’re spending into their player personnel decisions.  (That’s how I understand hockey being as well, but admittedly don’t follow it very closely.)

Baseball though it truly is Monopoly money for the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc. 

And I have no confidence in Manfred and owners collectively to come together and do anything to restore a little order to this. It’s not good for the game.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Because the players have no interest in a salary cap or other form of compensation restriction. The owners can't unilaterally do this.

[HutchwasClutch]

Because the players have no interest in a salary cap or other form of compensation restriction. The owners can't unilaterally do this.

Yeah, of course. I get that.  I’d just like Manfred to show some leadership and he and the owners fight back a little and not be so pathetically weak always against the players union.  Not saying it will be easy or that I expect sweeping changes, but show a backbone for once.  This is important for long term health of the game. 

[TallTitan34]

Damn it sounds like Ohtani’s agents fed Morosi the fake flight information to get the Dodgers to up the offer.

I get that their job is to get their client as much money as possible but doing it at the expense of a reporter’s credibility is something.

[MU82]

Yeah, of course. I get that.  I’d just like Manfred to show some leadership and he and the owners fight back a little and not be so pathetically weak always against the players union.  Not saying it will be easy or that I expect sweeping changes, but show a backbone for once.  This is important for long term health of the game.

The owners have willingly shut down chunks of seasons - even canceling a World Series once - but the players simply have the means and public support to outlast them.

They’d have to be willing to cancel an entire season, maybe more, and that probably would hurt them more both financially and public-relations-wise than the status quo would.

[HutchwasClutch]

The owners have willingly shut down chunks of seasons - even canceling a World Series once - but the players simply have the means and public support to outlast them.

They’d have to be willing to cancel an entire season, maybe more, and that probably would hurt them more both financially and public-relations-wise than the status quo would.

I don’t know why you assume it’s probable public sentiment will take the players side and owners would be hurt more in PR than the players?  We just saw a guy sign one contract for $170M more than Lebron James entire projected career earnings will be ($700M - $530M). Good luck to the players union getting the public to feel empathy for their plight against a salary cap and/or much more impactful luxury tax implications when we have exhibit A of this ludicrous contract to show why changes are needed. 

Players also have a lot to lose with canceled games and threat of a canceled season too.  These owners are all billionaires.  What’s going on with salaries is likely unsustainable unless they take a stand soon.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oh come on. Unsustainable? They’ve been saying that for 50 years.

[HutchwasClutch]

Oh come on. Unsustainable? They’ve been saying that for 50 years.

What’s the end game, especially with no salary cap?  There’s a good reason all three other major professional sports have one.  For crying out loud, the NBA has max contacts with their cap. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What’s the end game, especially with no salary cap?  There’s a good reason all three other major professional sports have one.  For crying out loud, the NBA has max contacts with their cap. 

If teams have revenue to cover their costs, why does it matter? I understand concerns over competitive balance, but why are you making the assumption that these contracts are “unsustainable?” Every time I have heard someone say something similar over the past three decades, it ends up being quite sustainable.

[HutchwasClutch]

If teams have revenue to cover their costs, why does it matter? I understand concerns over competitive balance, but why are you making the assumption that these contracts are “unsustainable?” Every time I have heard someone say something similar over the past three decades, it ends up being quite sustainable.

You do understand revenue means BEFORE costs, right?  Costs and expenses exceeding revenue means a net loss. 

[4everwarriors]

Poor Marky, his team will just haveta bea content wit bitin' da forbidden apple, aina?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You do understand revenue means BEFORE costs, right?  Costs and expenses exceeding revenue means a net loss. 

? I said "If teams have revenue to cover their costs..."  What don't you think I understand?

[HutchwasClutch]

? I said "If teams have revenue to cover their costs..."  What don't you think I understand?

Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be.  Revenue is mostly an unknown.  You’re making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on “why does it matter?”

And we’re discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term.  Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues.  The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be.  Revenue is mostly an unknown.  You’re making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on “why does it matter?”

And we’re discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term.  Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues.  The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now.

Ummm attendance was high as its been since 2017

[HutchwasClutch]

Ummm attendance was high as its been since 2017

Yes, undoubtedly due to finally speeding games up.  And a good attendance year after many down years.  It’s not like I’m breaking news baseball has been less and less popular for awhile now.

[PGsHeroes32]

Yes, undoubtedly due to finally speeding games up.  And a good attendance year after many down years.  It’s not like I’m breaking news baseball has been less and less popular for awhile now.

It was at its lowest right after Covid. Greatly increased. Then increased again. Its on a good track.

And for a guy like Ohtani which I assume is the basis of this discussion the revenue he will generate is clear. Jerseys and ticket sales will make the contract worth it by June.

There are entire asian sections at Target field when Ohtani comes to town. Much less LA.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Could revenues fall? Sure. But I think it’s doubtful considering media revenues continue to rise.

[Pakuni]

Teams know what a business cost of players salaries will be.  Revenue is mostly an unknown.  You’re making an assumption in that statement teams revenues will continue to cover their costs, especially tacking on “why does it matter?”

And we’re discussing player salaries being out of control and not sustainable imo long term.  Baseball cannot assume anything with revenues.  The sports popularity among the general public has mostly been in decline for years now.

Owning a professional sports team is a virtual guarantee of a massive windfall when you decide to sell.
Mark Cuban bought the Mavs for $285 million and is selling for a reported $3.5 billion.
The Wilpons and Doubledays bought the Mets for about $81 million and sold the team for $2.4 billion.
Jeffrey Loria bought the Marlins for $158.5 million and sold the team for $1.3 billion.

With that kind of expected ROI, owners - all billionaires to begin with - can bear occasional operating losses. If you aren't willing to spend to create a competitive roster, don't buy a team.


As for declining popularity, both attendance last year was the highest since 2017 and TV ratings were up as well.

[HutchwasClutch]

Could revenues fall? Sure. But I think it’s doubtful considering media revenues continue to rise.

Fair enough.  I stated an opinion that I know has many nuances to it and I may be on the wrong side.

[HutchwasClutch]

Owning a professional sports team is a virtual guarantee of a massive windfall when you decide to sell.
Mark Cuban bought the Mavs for $285 million and is selling for a reported $3.5 billion.
The Wilpons and Doubledays bought the Mets for about $81 million and sold the team for $2.4 billion.
Jeffrey Loria bought the Marlins for $158.5 million and sold the team for $1.3 billion.

With that kind of expected ROI, owners - all billionaires to begin with - can bear occasional operating losses. If you aren't willing to spend to create a competitive roster, don't buy a team.


As for declining popularity, both attendance last year was the highest since 2017 and TV ratings were up as well.

All good points.  And especially about windfalls when they decide to sell and if they’re not willing to spend to be competitive, don’t buy a team are the very issues we have as Brewers fans. Attanasio wants to profit way more than win. Both on a year to year and big picture whenever he decides to sell the team. 

I just think it’s a ridiculous advantage organizations like the Dodgers have on just about everyone and nothing is being done to attempt to level the playing field somewhat.  Their absurd local television deal just dwarfs almost all the rest of MLB teams and that’s the major reason why they can spend and fear nothing along the way. Many owners are not like Attanasio and are doing what they can to compete for championships. 

And I still don’t see what the end game is without a real mechanism to control player salaries.  There’s a point where national media deals, merchandise sales, ticket sales, etc just cannot keep up I fear. But we’ll see.

[HutchwasClutch]

It was at its lowest right after Covid. Greatly increased. Then increased again. Its on a good track.

And for a guy like Ohtani which I assume is the basis of this discussion the revenue he will generate is clear. Jerseys and ticket sales will make the contract worth it by June.

There are entire asian sections at Target field when Ohtani comes to town. Much less LA.

I think there is a reason to be optimistic attendance will continue to do well with the rules changes that were overwhelmingly well received. 

[PGsHeroes32]

I think there is a reason to be optimistic attendance will continue to do well with the rules changes that were overwhelmingly well received.

Yeah that was clearly the key. Same with viewership. People are much more inclined to spend there summer watching 2-2.5 hours of baseball instead of 3.5-4 hours.

[wadesworld]

What do Brewers fans want from an owner? Mark has been great for the city of Milwaukee and the Brewers. He’s made the Milwaukee freaking Brewers relatively consistent NL Central contenders and Playoff teams.

He bought the Brewers before the 2005 season. They had made 1 postseason in over 20 years prior to that. Since then, they’ve made 7 postseasons. If you take away the first 3 years he owned the team to build it up, that’s 7 postseasons in 16 years. And 5 of the last 6 postseasons, with the only miss being a pretty bad collapse.

[Jockey]

I’ve got no problem with Mark.