Malaise

[Dr. Blackheart]

Here’s a question I have for the folks here, would you take Frank Martin’s run at South Carolina, one final four since 2012 and only one tourney appearance?

I ask this because a great tournament run bought him time and now three years later, they look like a team headed for another NIT or bust season.  If Wojo has a great tournament run this year, that doesn’t portend future success per se

I don't like Frank Martin coached teams.

[Cheeks]

This is where I stand. I was basically "all in" on Wojo through mid February. I thought he and the program had turned a corner. Then came a total collapse on the court followed by one off the court. Some say the season ended "poorly". I think that's an understatement of epic proportion.

So I'm in the "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" camp. After falling for the fool's gold last year I'll be more wary this year. I think Wojo has earned that.

You were all in through mid February?   

[Goose]

Cheeks

I thought Lenny’s post was quite clear.

[shoothoops]

Who do you believe would be realistic candidates for the job if wojo were to leave/get fired?

My short answer is I don't have a I ready list today vs some names in mind. The longer version is to this point I haven't advocated Wojo's dismissal. However I do believe to please the masses he needs to make the NCAA 2nd weekend soon. That is a reasonable, fair, obvious statement. With regard to candidates.....

The challenge for MU will be getting a successful mid major type of head coach that isn't going to prefer a Power 5 school. This past season, Oats goes from Buffalo to Alabama. Musselman goes from Nevada to Arkansas. Brannen went from N Kentucky to Cincinnati. So the last one there is different. There is also the high major assistant route, and the other category such as Penny, Howard, Stackhouse etc...A good coach and fit can come from a variety of places. I am open to that.

I would have preferences, and a list if and when the time comes, yes. And we could then discuss it.

The expectation this year is making the NCAA's and having success in it. I don't see why MU couldn't do that.

It's fair to say the next 5 years, if there is 5 for Wojo needs to be a better percentage making NCAA's, a better percentage winning in NCAA's, better league finishes, better conference tourney results. If there isn't much improvement, and/or too many setbacks, I don't believe we will get to that point. I am neither a Wojo hater, nor am I a Wojo apologist.

If someone said he or she has been satisfied or happy with the first 5 year results, I would disagree. It's just basketball, just sports, just entertainment, but if MU is going to have a program, it may as well get the best results possible. I believe it is fair to say MU has underachieved thus far with Wojo. It doesn't mean Wojo can't improve that moving forward. He can't afford anymore down or rebuilding seasons any time soon. Specifically the way MU plays and in game and in season adjustments can be tweaked a bit. I, like many others will look for that this year and moving forward. I hope for a great season.

[Cheeks]

Cheeks

I thought Lenny’s post was quite clear.

I’m trying to remember the moments he was all-in....

[Cheeks]

My short answer is I don't have a I ready list today vs some names in mind. The longer version is to this point I haven't advocated Wojo's dismissal. However I do believe to please the masses he needs to make the NCAA 2nd weekend soon. That is a reasonable, fair, obvious statement. With regard to candidates.....

The challenge for MU will be getting a successful mid major type of head coach that isn't going to prefer a Power 5 school. This past season, Oats goes from Buffalo to Alabama. Musselman goes from Nevada to Arkansas. Brannen went from N Kentucky to Cincinnati. So the last one there is different. There is also the high major assistant route, and the other category such as Penny, Howard, Stackhouse etc...A good coach and fit can come from a variety of places. I am open to that.

I would have preferences, and a list if and when the time comes, yes. And we could then discuss it.

The expectation this year is making the NCAA's and having success in it. I don't see why MU couldn't do that.

It's fair to say the next 5 years, if there is 5 for Wojo needs to be a better percentage making NCAA's, a better percentage winning in NCAA's, better league finishes, better conference tourney results. If there isn't much improvement, and/or too many setbacks, I don't believe we will get to that point. I am neither a Wojo hater, nor am I a Wojo apologist.

If someone said he or she has been satisfied or happy with the first 5 year results, I would disagree. It's just basketball, just sports, just entertainment, but if MU is going to have a program, it may as well get the best results possible. I believe it is fair to say MU has underachieved thus far with Wojo. It doesn't mean Wojo can't improve that moving forward. He can't afford anymore down or rebuilding seasons any time soon. Specifically the way MU plays and in game and in season adjustments can be tweaked a bit. I, like many others will look for that this year and moving forward. I hope for a great season.

Let’s see how Penny, Howard, Stackhouse do...actual wins and losses.  Drexler crashed.  Ewing we will see.  Isaiah, Magic, McHale...not good. 

[Silent Verbal]

Who do you believe would be realistic candidates for the job if wojo were to leave/get fired?

I’d advocate for TJ Otzelberger or Nate Oates.  I know those guys are in high major jobs now, but they have WI ties and we could maybe offer a pay bump from their current position.  I think there are people on this board who’ve said MU has had their eye on TJO.

I don’t know if you meant it this way, but your question, to me, makes it seem like you don’t think there are any coaches out there who could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo.  If we can’t find someone better, it would be the easiest thing in the world to find someone who’s just as good.  I think pretty much any coach could guide a program to zero NCAA Tournament wins in five seasons.

[Galway Eagle]

I’d advocate for TJ Otzelberger or Nate Oates.  I know those guys are in high major jobs now, but they have WI ties and we could maybe offer a pay bump from their current position.  I think there are people on this board who’ve said MU has had their eye on TJO.

I don’t know if you meant it this way, but your question, to me, makes it seem like you don’t think there are any coaches out there who could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo.  If we can’t find someone better, it would be the easiest thing in the world to find someone who’s just as good.  I think pretty much any coach could guide a program to zero NCAA Tournament wins in five seasons.

Yeah anyone could bug There's a huge difference between guiding Depaul to zero NCAA tournament wins in five seasons vs what Wojo has done

[Uncle Rico]

I’d advocate for TJ Otzelberger or Nate Oates.  I know those guys are in high major jobs now, but they have WI ties and we could maybe offer a pay bump from their current position.  I think there are people on this board who’ve said MU has had their eye on TJO.

I don’t know if you meant it this way, but your question, to me, makes it seem like you don’t think there are any coaches out there who could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo.  If we can’t find someone better, it would be the easiest thing in the world to find someone who’s just as good.  I think pretty much any coach could guide a program to zero NCAA Tournament wins in five seasons.

I will be watching TJ closely.  Damn good recruiter, well-respected across the country

[Silent Verbal]

Yeah anyone could bug There's a huge difference between guiding Depaul to zero NCAA tournament wins in five seasons vs what Wojo has done

Well, I named two guys I think would be viable candidates, who might accept the job at the right price.  If Thad Matta is able to coach again, he might also be interested and a good choice.  I’m sure other Scoopers can name more guys they’d like to see who aren’t Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard.  This idea that nobody could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo’s doing is wrongheaded.   

[Silent Verbal]

I will be watching TJ closely.  Damn good recruiter, well-respected across the country

He’d be the first guy I’d call if Wojo leaves or is shown the door.

[Uncle Rico]

He’d be the first guy I’d call if Wojo leaves or is shown the door.

Breathed a sigh of relief when DePaul ignored him for a retread in Leitao

[MU82]

I'm with you Mike. While Marquette basketball is one of my (and all Scoopers, I presume) big passions, our success (or lack thereof) won't cure cancer or solve the problem of world hunger. A tough loss, a bad season or a protracted "malaise" doesn't mean much compared to the health and happiness of those we love. We ALL get that. But this is a Marquette basketball website. People come here to celebrate, to commiserate and to bitch. It what fans do. You're an insightful and often extremely critical guy (on countless subjects), but when it comes to MU bball you generally check those qualities at the door in favor of a more enthusiastic approach. Doesn't make you a lesser (or better) fan. Just different. Everyone here decides how much objectivity to bring to their love and loyalty for MU. That's fine. But arguing over how much is appropriate isn't fine. It leads to arguments, baseless accusations (anyone here who knows 4ever and Goose knows they want nothing but success for MU) and enmity. We don't need to always agree on the state of our basketball program here, but it sure would be nice if we could acknowledge that disagreement doesn't equal disloyalty. Might even eliminate some of the "malaise".

We are Marquette - indeed.

We are in agreement, Lenny.

Sometimes I get a little snarky, yes, and I do admit it bugs me a little bit when a few posters don't show up after wins or after a recruiting get but can't wait to rip after a loss or a recruiting miss, but  yes, fans are fans.

FWIW -- probably not much -- I have gone from bullish on Wojo to "show me" on Wojo. I was generally pleased with the trajectory of the program and the quality of the recruits he was bringing in, and I still am to a degree. However, while I don't absolve the Hausers for Hausershima, he is the coach and the buck stops there. It was a total shyteshow, and it reflects on the coach. So probably for the first time since he's been our coach, in my eyes, the pressure is on Wojo.

I said "probably not much" because there is no "or else" for me, either real or implied. And frankly, I doubt he would be fired unless we have a total dumpster fire of a season ... and who knows, maybe not even then.

So while I personally want to see him take the next step with our program and overcome the fallout of Hausershima, I am pretty realistic.

Go Marquette!

[MU82]

Well, I named two guys I think would be viable candidates, who might accept the job at the right price.  If Thad Matta is able to coach again, he might also be interested and a good choice.  I’m sure other Scoopers can name more guys they’d like to see who aren’t Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard.  This idea that nobody could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo’s doing is wrongheaded.

Unless I missed it, and it's certainly possible I did, I don't know as I've seen any Scooper say (or even imply) that nobody could do a better job at MU than Wojo.

What some have said is that if you fire Wojo, you start over, most likely with either a mid-major coach, a P6 assistant or possibly a retread. And if you don't score big with the person who replaces him, you can set the program back a decade.

I'm not arguing that is a reason to avoid firing him if justified. I'm simply saying you'd better know exactly what your intentions are before you go the starting-over route.

There are no sure things. Every single Scooper, including me, was all-in on Shaka, but he has done zippo at Texas. Majerus, seen as pretty much a sure thing, was an epic failure at Marquette (for a variety of reasons).

Not a single Scooper knows if the next hire will automatically do better than Wojo. We all have opinions. Like you, I like to think we could find someone better, but it always comes back to my two favorite words in any of these situations:

We'll see.

Until any of this happens, though, I'm rooting like hell for Wojo to be the coach most of us want him to be: a long-time, successful coach who can guide us into the NCAAs pretty much every year, can win multiple Big East titles and can get us into the second weekend (and beyond) more times than not.

Again ...

We'll see.

[Silent Verbal]

Unless I missed it, and it's certainly possible I did, I don't know as I've seen any Scooper say (or even imply) that nobody could do a better job at MU than Wojo.

What some have said is that if you fire Wojo, you start over, most likely with either a mid-major coach, a P6 assistant or possibly a retread. And if you don't score big with the person who replaces him, you can set the program back a decade.

I'm not arguing that is a reason to avoid firing him if justified. I'm simply saying you'd better know exactly what your intentions are before you go the starting-over route.

There are no sure things. Every single Scooper, including me, was all-in on Shaka, but he has done zippo at Texas. Majerus, seen as pretty much a sure thing, was an epic failure at Marquette (for a variety of reasons).

Not a single Scooper knows if the next hire will automatically do better than Wojo. We all have opinions. Like you, I like to think we could find someone better, but it always comes back to my two favorite words in any of these situations:

We'll see.

Until any of this happens, though, I'm rooting like hell for Wojo to be the coach most of us want him to be: a long-time, successful coach who can guide us into the NCAAs pretty much every year, can win multiple Big East titles and can get us into the second weekend (and beyond) more times than not.

Again ...

We'll see.

When it’s suggested that Wojo be shown the door, there are a couple folks who always say, “And replace him with who?”  This question, to me, implies that the person asking it thinks there are no realistic candidates who might do a better job than Wojo.  But since I can’t recall anyone actually saying those words verbatim, I’ll stop saying it going forward.  I don’t want to get into “There are people on here rooting against the program” territory.

I’ll say this:  If Wojo misses on Davis and Garcia, I believe the number of NCAA Tournament games he wins this season should directly correlate to how long his leash is.  Win one, he gets another year.  Win two, give him two.  Zero, and like Silvio Dante said about Richie Aprile on The Sopranos, “I don’t think we got anything to gain by keeping him around.”

[Lennys Tap]

I’m trying to remember the moments he was all-in....

When memory fails, I suggest a search.

[Lennys Tap]

We are in agreement, Lenny.

Sometimes I get a little snarky, yes, and I do admit it bugs me a little bit when a few posters don't show up after wins or after a recruiting get but can't wait to rip after a loss or a recruiting miss, but  yes, fans are fans.

FWIW -- probably not much -- I have gone from bullish on Wojo to "show me" on Wojo. I was generally pleased with the trajectory of the program and the quality of the recruits he was bringing in, and I still am to a degree. However, while I don't absolve the Hausers for Hausershima, he is the coach and the buck stops there. It was a total shyteshow, and it reflects on the coach. So probably for the first time since he's been our coach, in my eyes, the pressure is on Wojo.

I said "probably not much" because there is no "or else" for me, either real or implied. And frankly, I doubt he would be fired unless we have a total dumpster fire of a season ... and who knows, maybe not even then.

So while I personally want to see him take the next step with our program and overcome the fallout of Hausershima, I am pretty realistic.

Go Marquette!

Thanks, Mike.

Go MU!

[Cheeks]

Well, I named two guys I think would be viable candidates, who might accept the job at the right price.  If Thad Matta is able to coach again, he might also be interested and a good choice.  I’m sure other Scoopers can name more guys they’d like to see who aren’t Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard.  This idea that nobody could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo’s doing is wrongheaded.

There is always someone, somewhere that can do a better job.  Then you have to factor in how they are doing it, are they here for a sip of coffee, or long term, etc. 

Or more importantly, would they come here in the first place.

Imagine a scenario where Wojo wins a few NCAA games next few years and leaves, then kills it at his next stop, same type of players, same system, but catches a few breaks, is a bit wiser having done the gig longer...meanwhile his replacement shats the bed.

Guess what, that is also something that can happen and isn’t wrongheaded.

[Cheeks]

When memory fails, I suggest a search.

Oh I have...and the data isn’t supportive. 

And when you say through mid February when exactly did it start, because it doesn’t appear you were all in from the start and certainly not now, maybe you help some of us when it started to shorten the window.

[Cheeks]

When it’s suggested that Wojo be shown the door, there are a couple folks who always say, “And replace him with who?”  This question, to me, implies that the person asking it thinks there are no realistic candidates who might do a better job than Wojo.  But since I can’t recall anyone actually saying those words verbatim, I’ll stop saying it going forward.  I don’t want to get into “There are people on here rooting against the program” territory.

I’ll say this:  If Wojo misses on Davis and Garcia, I believe the number of NCAA Tournament games he wins this season should directly correlate to how long his leash is.  Win one, he gets another year.  Win two, give him two.  Zero, and like Silvio Dante said about Richie Aprile on The Sopranos, “I don’t think we got anything to gain by keeping him around.”

Uhm, no.  When we say who are you going to replace him with doesn’t at all mean he is the best person out there.  It is an honest question of who, how, what kind of coach.  You don’t just get to go to the coaching store and select one off the shelf.

[wadesworld]

Nobody has said there’s not a single person in the world who would come to Marquette who could do a better job than Wojo. The issue is finding that person. There is no sure fire, can’t miss guy out there, in my opinion. A guy like Nate Oates isn’t going to leave the big pay day he just got after 1 season to take over for a guy who will probably have just made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances and got run out of the building. Nor is Nate Oates clearly a guy who would kill it at Marquette. He had a nice final 2 years at Buffalo, with some guys who were holdovers from the previous coach. Shaka was much closer to a “can’t miss, will kill it at the next level” and he can’t get it done at Texas, which should be easier to win at than Marquette.

I am confident a guy like Tony Bennett would kill it at Marquette. I’m also confident Tony Bennett would never even have his administrative assistant send a phone call from Marquette through to him.

Chris Beard got the Texas Tech job after a single season of coaching D1 college basketball. It has obviously worked out for them. But it was just as likely that it’d turn out to be a failure. That’s the kind of guy we could get at Marquette.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not thinking you can do better is never a reason to keep an employee who isn't getting it done.  This is a big year for Wojo.  I have no doubt that he will get another year after this one regardless, but the year after next is no guaranty.

[Lennys Tap]

Nobody has said there’s not a single person in the world who would come to Marquette who could do a better job than Wojo. The issue is finding that person. There is no sure fire, can’t miss guy out there, in my opinion. A guy like Nate Oates isn’t going to leave the big pay day he just got after 1 season to take over for a guy who will probably have just made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances and got run out of the building. Nor is Nate Oates clearly a guy who would kill it at Marquette. He had a nice final 2 years at Buffalo, with some guys who were holdovers from the previous coach. Shaka was much closer to a “can’t miss, will kill it at the next level” and he can’t get it done at Texas, which should be easier to win at than Marquette.

I am confident a guy like Tony Bennett would kill it at Marquette. I’m also confident Tony Bennett would never even have his administrative assistant send a phone call from Marquette through to him.

Chris Beard got the Texas Tech job after a single season of coaching D1 college basketball. It has obviously worked out for them. But it was just as likely that it’d turn out to be a failure. That’s the kind of guy we could get at Marquette.

Agree 100%. We struck silver with Crean and gold with Buzz but there are no guarantees. That said, IF it's determined that Wojo's not the guy the sooner you gamble on the next guy you think might be the better.

[Cheeks]

Agree 100%. We struck silver with Crean and gold with Buzz but there are no guarantees. That said, IF it's determined that Wojo's not the guy the sooner you gamble on the next guy you think might be the better.

Fool’s gold...

[StillAWarrior]

FWIW -- probably not much -- I have gone from bullish on Wojo to "show me" on Wojo.

Go Marquette!

This pretty accurately sums up my feelings.  I do admit to still having a touch of optimism.