Volvo is Eliminating Internal Combustion Engines By 2019 (Going Electric)

[Spotcheck Billy]

It will likely never be simple to swap out depleted batteries for fully charged ones. The batteries are the heaviest component so they are located under the floor for stability.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And if you do that, it says they are coming much faster than you think.  This was such important point that the title was ...

When Will Electric Cars Go Mainstream? It May Be Sooner Than You Think

But 4to5 is saying that is not the point at all.  Around the 20th paragraph is offered some caveats so that means none of this is happening.

Well I can't believe any of this. It was written by a journalist and they have no value!

[tower912]

Which is why I say it is several generations of battery technology away.  Which, unless some other rapid charge method is found, will relegate electric cars to second-car or boutique status for the foreseeable future.  A coworker owns a Leaf and a Prius.  His wife refuses to drive the leaf because of range anxiety.  Every day at work, I hear this debate about adequate range and range anxiety playing out.   It is the hurdle electric cars must overcome.

[Tugg Speedman]

Well I can't believe any of this. It was written by a journalist and they have no value!

They have no monetary value, not worth paying for, and no one does.

Does not mean they are wrong.

[mu03eng]

They have no monetary value, not worth paying for, and no one does.

Does not mean they are wrong.

Firstly, I consume your content for free, does that mean you have no value?

Secondly, there are plenty of news organizations that are making money that you have to pay for. If you want to argue that journalists are terrible at business, I'm fine with that, but their inability to monetize is not a direct correlation to the value they provide.

[Tugg Speedman]

So it goes 90 miles less than my 2005 Altima goes on a tank of gas...for a road trip that means at least one extra stop for any trip over 600 miles.

How many time is a year this a problem?  Studies show only a small fraction of drivers is this an issue.

[Tugg Speedman]

Firstly, I consume your content for free, does that mean you have no value?

Secondly, there are plenty of news organizations that are making money that you have to pay for. If you want to argue that journalists are terrible at business, I'm fine with that, but their inability to monetize is not a direct correlation to the value they provide.

Would you pay for it?  If not, then it has no value.  I would not pay for you either.

To your second point ... not really.  They exist because rich people like Carlos Slim (New York Times) and Jeff Bezos (Washington Post) are de facto patrons that keep them alive.  They have non-monetary motivations for doing it.

[mu03eng]

How many time is a year this a problem?  Studies show only a small fraction of drivers is this an issue.

At least 4 or 5 times a year, and it's exacerbated by the fact that more frequent stops means you have to have charging/swapping stations at least as frequently as current gas station which is a huge amount of infrastructure to build. It then becomes a chicken or egg thing.....do you build the infrastructure assuming that the mass of cars able to use it will come as a result or do you have to get the mass of cars on the road so the infrastructure will follow? And keep in mind that the cost of putting of an electric charging station is going to be significantly more expensive in the short and medium term than are gas stations.

[mu03eng]

Would you pay for it?  If not, then it has no value.  I would not pay for you either.

To your second point ... not really.  They exist because rich people like Carlos Slim (New York Times) and Jeff Bezos (Washington Post) are de facto patrons that keep them alive.  They have non-monetary motivations for doing it.

I'm really glad your world view isn't reality, that world would suck.

[Pakuni]

Would you pay for it?  If not, then it has no value.  I would not pay for you either.

Well, at least you admit your posts have no value.
It's a start.

Of course, the notion that the only things of value in this world are the things one pays for is kind of pathetic.
Besides being obviously false.

[MarquetteDano]

One other note, I'm still waiting for the exposes on how dirty(environmentally) the battery industry is. Current battery technology requires metals that are far more rare then oil, so that might also limit mass adoption.

Fair point but if we are talking about economic externalities,  what is the true cost of a gallon of gas?  Given that we have consistently relied on foreign sources for decades what do we spend as tax payers on securing oil all throughout the planet?  The advantage of electric cars isn't just environmental but reducing our reliance on foreigners to run our economy.

[mu03eng]

Fair point but if we are talking about economic externalities,  what is the true cost of a gallon of gas?  Given that we have consistently relied on foreign sources for decades what do we spend as tax payers on securing oil all throughout the planet?  The advantage of electric cars isn't just environmental but reducing our reliance on foreigners to run our economy.

If it was 1985, I'd completely agree with you but between shale oil, natural gas, alternative generation sources, etc US is very close to achieving energy independence.

Further, the majority of the rare earth metals needed for battery production are found in China....feels like would be trading one bad actor for another.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Which is why I say it is several generations of battery technology away.  Which, unless some other rapid charge method is found, will relegate electric cars to second-car or boutique status for the foreseeable future.  A coworker owns a Leaf and a Prius.  His wife refuses to drive the leaf because of range anxiety.  Every day at work, I hear this debate about adequate range and range anxiety playing out.   It is the hurdle electric cars must overcome.

I also am curious of the effects of our cold winters regarding range anxiety.

[🏀]

We all have our opinions, nothing wrong with that.  You may not agree with my opinions, but to say it makes little sense is not accurate.


Pros and Cons to mileage tax. Fair article.  https://www.mileiq.com/blog/mileage-tax-gas-tax/


Libertarian point of view against  http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/04/dont-track-me-bro-glenn-reynolds-on-mile

Bad economic policy  http://economics.about.com/od/taxesandeconomicgrowth/a/mileage_tax.htm

US Rep from CT has his view   http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2017/02/21/ray-dunaway-an-argument-against-the-mileage-tax/

The arugment against it is based upon how to track it. I said it's the most sensible, but least likely. It's least likely because of the tracking, but most sensible because it is a true user fee.

[Jockey]

Would you pay for it?  If not, then it has no value.  I would not pay for you either.

To your second point ... not really.  They exist because rich people like Carlos Slim (New York Times) and Jeff Bezos (Washington Post) are de facto patrons that keep them alive.  They have non-monetary motivations for doing it.

Minor things like freedom.

[forgetful]

Regardless of what one thinks timeline wise for conversion to an electric economy, a wise investment is in property with mineral rights in areas that have/may have lithium deposits.

[MarquetteDano]

If it was 1985, I'd completely agree with you but between shale oil, natural gas, alternative generation sources, etc US is very close to achieving energy independence.

Further, the majority of the rare earth metals needed for battery production are found in China....feels like would be trading one bad actor for another.

We have increased production which is great but to think we will not need foreign actors for a long time is not being realistic.  We still import 8 million barrels today with all of shale, natural gas, alternatives, etc. included.

I also don't believe most car companies use rare earths on their batteries.  I am sure they use them on electronics within the car but gas powered use those too.

[mu03eng]

We have increased production which is great but to think we will not need foreign actors for a long time is not being realistic.  We still import 8 million barrels today with all of shale, natural gas, alternatives, etc. included.

I also don't believe most car companies use rare earths on their batteries.  I am sure they use them on electronics within the car but gas powered use those too.

Electric vehicles use permanent magnets that need neodymium, praseodymium and dysprosium as well as Graphite (not rare either). Also electric car batteries use Lithium as a cathode which, while not rare earth doesn't come in readily accessible quantities, is very dirty to mine, and China is the largest supplier to date.

[MarquetteDano]

Electric vehicles use permanent magnets that need neodymium, praseodymium and dysprosium as well as Graphite (not rare either). Also electric car batteries use Lithium as a cathode which, while not rare earth doesn't come in readily accessible quantities, is very dirty to mine, and China is the largest supplier to date.

Okay. We are.not going to agree on this. So  you are stating that EVs do us no good because importing foreign oil is better than or no worse than whatever components  we have to  import to make electric vehicles and  EVs cause just as much damage to the environment as the oil does.

The electric car must be a total joke in your eyes.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Okay. We are.not going to agree on this. So  you are stating that EVs do us no good because importing foreign oil is better than or no worse than whatever components  we have to  import to make electric vehicles and  EVs cause just as much damage to the environment as the oil does.

The electric car must be a total joke in your eyes.

without tax subsidies from the government, EV and Hybrids are a joke from a cost perspective

[MarquetteDano]

without tax subsidies from the government, EV and Hybrids are a joke from a cost perspective

Well Koch Industries (my client) gets a lot of subsidies in the oil business. Plus what is the externality cost of securing oil all throughout the planet. That costs tax $$ too.

[mu03eng]

Okay. We are.not going to agree on this. So  you are stating that EVs do us no good because importing foreign oil is better than or no worse than whatever components  we have to  import to make electric vehicles and  EVs cause just as much damage to the environment as the oil does.

The electric car must be a total joke in your eyes.

Do you have one of these at your computer?


I never said they were equally bad or that I'm anti-EV in any way. My point was about the number of issues that need to be resolved or mitigated prior a mass adoption and the elimination of the current paradigm. You'll note (or maybe you didn't since you used your mat) that I said that EV will be the standard in 20 years, hardly the viewpoint of someone who finds the vehicles to be a joke.

[MarquetteDano]

Do you have one of these at your computer?


I never said they were equally bad or that I'm anti-EV in any way. My point was about the number of issues that need to be resolved or mitigated prior a mass adoption and the elimination of the current paradigm. You'll note (or maybe you didn't since you used your mat) that I said that EV will be the standard in 20 years, hardly the viewpoint of someone who finds the vehicles to be a joke.

My apologies.  I do agree it is going to take 15+ years for them to be feasible on a large scale.  Though  I think RIGHT NOW the environmental and foreign reliance advantages are there.  Whether most consumers are willing to adopt (given range issues and other factors) will be interesting.

[B. McBannerson]

Do you know how to read the newspaper?  Because they typical counter-points you cite is not the point of the article.  It is the title and the first several paragraphs shown above.

Do you read MU basketball articles like this, pulling out every negative counter-point mentioned and conclude we are the worst team in D1 ball?

I read basketball articles the same as I did your article, with balance.  MU has negatives and positives.  This article says MAY come sooner than you think with electric, but explains in some detail why it MAY not.  Matt Velasquez will write about our solid shooting, or hustle, but could also talk about a porous defense.  That's how I read, the entire thing without cherry picking.

[B. McBannerson]

How many time is a year this a problem?  Studies show only a small fraction of drivers is this an issue.

Say something catastrophic happens. An earthquake in California, power is out for weeks, you need to evacuate.  Which car do you wish you had?  A rare occurrence, but so is the need for using a gun at home, or practicing CPR on someone.  Electric has a place in the mix, but I would never be solely reliant on it.  I would always have a gasoline vehicle.

What are we doing with all the disposed of batteries and the enviro problems they cause?