MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Moonboots on June 18, 2008, 01:30:48 PM
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The fact that ESPN is even attempting to turn this into a story this summer angers me, being a diehard Packer fan. Green Bay, WI is and ALWAYS will be Titletown, U.S.A. because there is no other city/town in all of professional sports that lives through their team the way Green Bay does, past, present, and future. And that past includes an NFL record 12 world championships. To start going into different sports (especially college sports) and comparing the raw number of championships doesn't do the concept of "Titletown, U.S.A." justice.
Furthermore, something I didn't know until recently is that the term Titletown, U.S.A. is actually a registered trademark of the Green Bay Packers, which could essentially mean that they could take ESPN to court if they chose to do so.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=oi0rj9.2.10
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1, 2, 3, Favre
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ummm no, they couldn't take espn to court. they are not using the term for any financial gain. it'd be like if they took you to court for starting this thread, which is for the mere purposes of creating a discussion, which is all ESPN is trying to do.
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The fact that ESPN is even attempting to turn this into a story this summer angers me, being a diehard Packer fan. And that past includes an NFL record 12 world championships. To start going into different sports (especially college sports) and comparing the raw number of championships doesn't do the concept of "Titletown, U.S.A." justice.
Remove the green and gold sun glasses, who says they can't include multiple professional sports franchises? Just because including those drops Green Bay down near the bottom of the list where you don't want to see them doesn't mean they're wrong in doing so.
http://www.nuttyaboutsports.com/cities-of-champions.shtml
This link shows the most championships by each city and for example, NY has 32 baseball championships so if you were a Yankee fan or a Mets fan you could argue against including football championships in the equation. (Although with last year I'm sure they wouldn't)
Boston has won 17 NBA championships
Montreal has won 26 Hockey Championships
Some of these championships I would argue against like the CFL for Canadien cities but a "world" championship is still a title and should be included in the decision.
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Remove the green and gold sun glasses, who says they can't include multiple professional sports franchises? Just because including those drops Green Bay down near the bottom of the list where you don't want to see them doesn't mean they're wrong in doing so.
http://www.nuttyaboutsports.com/cities-of-champions.shtml
This link shows the most championships by each city and for example, NY has 32 baseball championships so if you were a Yankee fan or a Mets fan you could argue against including football championships in the equation. (Although with last year I'm sure they wouldn't)
Boston has won 17 NBA championships
Montreal has won 26 Hockey Championships
Some of these championships I would argue against like the CFL for Canadien cities but a "world" championship is still a title and should be included in the decision.
Where does that website get its data? Green Bay has 6 professional football championships? Yeah, if this data was taken between 1944 and 1961. Then Green Bay proceeded to win 5 in 7 years (something that STILL hasn't been replicated in the NFL) and added another in 1996.
ESPN can make news out of nothing, and find their own "TitleCity." That's fine. But Titletown, U.S.A. is Green Bay, Wisconsin and there's nothing they can ever do to change that.
It has nothing to do with Green and Gold goggles, it just has to do with a city living through its championships and past (as well as present and future) glory.
In a city with 8.2 million people, if the New York Yankees don't win the World Series or the Knicks miss the playoffs, life will go on and many people won't give a damn. Times Square will still be bustling, people will be walking the streets doing business on cell phones. It looks that way any time of year, at any time of day.
Go to Green Bay on a Sunday afternoon in autumn and try going to a mall. There's no one there. Grocery stores? Many are closed for 3 hours Sunday afternoon. Go within 5 miles of the stadium, you'll find the party, and just maybe understand that Titletown U.S.A. isn't a right or a namesake, but a lifestyle.
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ummm no, they couldn't take espn to court. they are not using the term for any financial gain. it'd be like if they took you to court for starting this thread, which is for the mere purposes of creating a discussion, which is all ESPN is trying to do.
ESPN is traveling to each of their 20 final cities in July.. do you think they little party they throw during the broadcast is just gonna be a nice little free schindig? ESPN doesn't do things if it doesn't make ESPN money. You can bet they'll cut a good sized profit resulting from this promotion.
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Trust me PX, there's more to see outside the friendly confines of Green Bay...I'm sure you love your lil' town and the culture surrounding football but, again, you're a self proclaimed packer fan so you've got a little bias towards it. There's fannatics everywhere for every team in every city. Have you ever gone to a UGA football game? Or any SEC Football game for that matter. The tailgating atmosphere is pretty amazing at those events.
And the town shutting down for each game? I know a lot of high schools that cause that same phenomenon to happen in their home town should I contact them and let them know that Green Bay wants it's culture back?
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You sound like a typical Bears fan. ;) Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Trust me PX, there's more to see outside the friendly confines of Green Bay...I'm sure you love your lil' town and the culture surrounding football but, again, you're a self proclaimed packer fan so you've got a little bias towards it. There's fannatics everywhere for every team in every city. Have you ever gone to a UGA football game? Or any SEC Football game for that matter. The tailgating atmosphere is pretty amazing at those events.
And the town shutting down for each game? I know a lot of high schools that cause that same phenomenon to happen in their home town should I contact them and let them know that Green Bay wants it's culture back?
There are towns all across the south that shut down for high school football. Friday Night Lights style. And college football in the southeast is huge as well. But Green Bay is unique in the professional sports world. Kansas City and Pittsburgh come close. The Cubs, Yankees, and Red Sox have their tradition and their following, but that's in America's pasttime. Football is America's game.
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My good friends you are forgetting one main point here. Green Bay OWNS the Packers. There is no fear of them ever being moved, having the name changed, having their colors changed etc. The city is full of owners, myself living in Milwaukee having a share.
No team, city, or school can claim the same. NO ONE. The fact that we do so much with so little is enough to call us Title town USA. Throw in the fact that we own a record 12 NFL Championships and it becomes a no brainer.
There are no "Steinbrunner's" in Green Bay and when the Packers lose, everyone in the state loses. In Chicago if the bears lose, who cares you have the cubs, white sox, black hawks, and that dumb soccer team to fall back on. In New York it is the yankees, mets, jets, giants, knicks and im sure a wnba team, but i dont know.
Basically this contest will just reveal everything that every packer fan already knew and open the eyes of the rest of the country that Green Bay really is the place to be.
If you have never been to a pre-game tailgate at lambeau field then please refreain from talking in this thread because clearly you have no idea what Titletown USA is like.
GO PACK GO
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Not that I mind the Packers, being from Green Bay, but I don't understand the need for the constant "most championships" talk. Most of the championships happened when there were like four teams. The fact that the team can't move is great as are the ties to the community. No other city lives and dies by how the team plays. Either I really don't get it after living in Green Bay for years, or "tradition" seems to be a poor excuse to explain all the things that make absolutely no sense. The "stock" thing is stupid-it might have had some validity when they issued stock in the 60's but the 90's "offering" was nothing more than a gimmick. The only incentive to being a shareholder is sitting in an an annual PR charade once a year. When they want some more money I'm sure they'll get some more people to pay $200 for a share though.
I get the whole tailgating thing and the small town pride, and even the parking on people's lawns near the stadium. That stuff sticks with you when you live in Green Bay and follow the team. But some of it just never clicked with me, like how these people will watch 3 hours of "Packer shows" Monday and Tuesday nights that consist of players saying nothing about football and "Q&A" sessions consisting of little kids asking the players if they like playing football. Only a matter of weeks until they are all glued to the TV every night for the "Training Camp Report" where you get pointless speculation on who's going to make the team, drunk guys calling in and asking idiotic questions, and you get to learn the hobbies of players that they will be further enjoying when they are unemployed after they get cut two days later. Watching this garbage isn't being a "true fan", it's a way of dealing with small town boredom.
And the last thing that bothers me is that Packer fans still hold a huge grudge against Javon Walker for wanting out of Green Bay. Every team has holdouts and is put in the same situation every year; it's the NFL's ridiculous salary structure that somehow earns praise as being the best in sports. Just because he decided to take advantage of that and not enjoy all Green Bay had to offer him is no reason to still hear fans talk about how "he had it coming" when his teammate died in his arms and now when he gets beaten unconscious.
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The fact that the greatest team accomplishment (in pro football) results in the Lombardi trophy alone proves why GB is Titletown.
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I think the next espn thing should be who is the real big apple. I mean why does NYC get a claim to this? or the next windy city.
Titletown USA is a marketing slogan that Green Bay claimed and ESPN is trying to usurp it.
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Not that I mind the Packers, being from Green Bay, but I don't understand the need for the constant "most championships" talk. Most of the championships happened when there were like four teams. The fact that the team can't move is great as are the ties to the community. No other city lives and dies by how the team plays. Either I really don't get it after living in Green Bay for years, or "tradition" seems to be a poor excuse to explain all the things that make absolutely no sense. The "stock" thing is stupid-it might have had some validity when they issued stock in the 60's but the 90's "offering" was nothing more than a gimmick. The only incentive to being a shareholder is sitting in an an annual PR charade once a year. When they want some more money I'm sure they'll get some more people to pay $200 for a share though.
I get the whole tailgating thing and the small town pride, and even the parking on people's lawns near the stadium. That stuff sticks with you when you live in Green Bay and follow the team. But some of it just never clicked with me, like how these people will watch 3 hours of "Packer shows" Monday and Tuesday nights that consist of players saying nothing about football and "Q&A" sessions consisting of little kids asking the players if they like playing football. Only a matter of weeks until they are all glued to the TV every night for the "Training Camp Report" where you get pointless speculation on who's going to make the team, drunk guys calling in and asking idiotic questions, and you get to learn the hobbies of players that they will be further enjoying when they are unemployed after they get cut two days later. Watching this garbage isn't being a "true fan", it's a way of dealing with small town boredom.
And the last thing that bothers me is that Packer fans still hold a huge grudge against Javon Walker for wanting out of Green Bay. Every team has holdouts and is put in the same situation every year; it's the NFL's ridiculous salary structure that somehow earns praise as being the best in sports. Just because he decided to take advantage of that and not enjoy all Green Bay had to offer him is no reason to still hear fans talk about how "he had it coming" when his teammate died in his arms and now when he gets beaten unconscious.
AMEN!!
This should be permanently put in the wiki and pinned to the top of the board.
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Just because GB established themselves as "Titletown" years ago doesn't mean things can't change or that the term is true. Look at WI for example: "the dairy state", yet CA produces more dairy than WI does...should CA take WI to court? GA is the “peach state” yet SC produces more peaches than GA, is there an on going litigation battle between the 2 states? No.
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Just because GB established themselves as "Titletown" years ago doesn't mean things can't change or that the term is true. Look at WI for example: "the dairy state", yet CA produces more dairy than WI does...should CA take WI to court? GA is the “peach state” yet SC produces more peaches than GA, is there an on going litigation battle between the 2 states? No.
yeah, but you dont see california calling itself the dairy state or south carolina the peach state. i hope you are intelligent enough to see this.
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yeah, but you dont see california calling itself the dairy state or south carolina the peach state. i hope you are intelligent enough to see this.
The point I'm trying to make is that CA or SC aren't that caught up in fussing over "slogans" because they've got much more going for them then some silly slogan. Lord knows nobody outside of WI cares about what's going on in GB let alone what the "city slogan" is. Good god, I never knew GB would exhibit so much crying and moaning over an idiotic ESPN installment. But I guess if the only thing you've got going for you is some silly title and a handful of championships from the 20s, 30s, and early 60s then by all means take them to court, file a petition, write your congressman, hold a rally, I mean we can really change the world 1 slogan at a time!!! ::)
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The point I'm trying to make is that CA or SC aren't that caught up in fussing over "slogans" because they've got much more going for them then some silly slogan. Lord knows nobody outside of WI cares about what's going on in GB let alone what the "city slogan" is. Good god, I never knew GB would exhibit so much crying and moaning over an idiotic ESPN installment. But I guess if the only thing you've got going for you is some silly title and a handful of championships from the 20s, 30s, and early 60s then by all means take them to court, file a petition, write your congressman, hold a rally, I mean we can really change the world 1 slogan at a time!!! ::)
Umm....CA does fuss over it, esp. with dairy. You have seen the Happy Cows ads havent you?
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Which is funny since those ads are filmed in WI. And muarmy, have you ever talked to someone from GB? They care about very little outside of the Packers. As soon as the mini camps start, people are predicting what the upcoming season will hold. It's like nothing else. GB residents cover football more than ESPN does w/ it's stupid NFL tonight coverage in March and April.
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Not that I mind the Packers, being from Green Bay, but I don't understand the need for the constant "most championships" talk.
Refresh me if I am wrong, but I do believe that TITLETOWN is the name of the comptetition so TITLES are all that matter!
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And the last thing that bothers me is that Packer fans still hold a huge grudge against Javon Walker for wanting out of Green Bay. Every team has holdouts and is put in the same situation every year; it's the NFL's ridiculous salary structure that somehow earns praise as being the best in sports. Just because he decided to take advantage of that and not enjoy all Green Bay had to offer him is no reason to still hear fans talk about how "he had it coming" when his teammate died in his arms and now when he gets beaten unconscious.
Do the Eagles still boo and gripe about T.O? yup
Do the Raiders still boo and gripe about Randy Moss? yup
Did the Phillies just boo JD Drew when he was in town because he didn't sign with them in 1997? yup
Do the Red Sox still boo and gripe about Johnny Damon? yup
care for me to go on... teams boo players that are traitors... hell look at us on here, we still gripe about Tom Crean leaving Marquette... it happens in sports.
As for ESPN trying to change Titletown... its a joke, we know who is titletown, its Green Bay, ESPN knows that...
muarmy81... your a Bears fan, and you despise everything Packers, it's like me being a Brewers fan and despising everything Cubs... thats how it goes...
The title of Titletown is the Green Bay Packers, it has been for decades... like someone has stated on here... next year are we going to decide which city is the Windy city? because I guarantee there is some town in Kansas or Iowa which will compete for being more "windy".. however people from Chicago will bitch till no tomorrow... its a name that is with the city, just like Titletown is for Green Bay.
If ESPN makes any other city Titletown, numerous letters will be sent to that station. Hey, how about we start the which station is the "world wide leader in sports" station? See how ESPN enjoys that one.
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Setanta sports would dominate. ;)
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Do the Eagles still boo and gripe about T.O? yup
Do the Raiders still boo and gripe about Randy Moss? yup
Did the Phillies just boo JD Drew when he was in town because he didn't sign with them in 1997? yup
Do the Red Sox still boo and gripe about Johnny Damon? yup
And the Brewers booed Sheffield when he returned to Milwaukee more than a decade later. But "boo and gripe" is part of hte game. Comments like "he had it coming" and "serves him right" when a player has a teammate die in his arms and when he gets beaten unconscious is need for a reality check.
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yeah, but you dont see california calling itself the dairy state or south carolina the peach state. i hope you are intelligent enough to see this.
Actually California does very heavy promotions here about being the dairy capital of the US. California Cheese, etc.
Maybe there should be some truth in advertising...shouldn't title town be some place like New York where the Yankees, Knicks, Islanders, Rangers, Mets, Giants, Jets all have titles. Or any number of other places?
I get the history...it's cute and really I don't care.....as long as we all know America's Team is in Dallas. ;D
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Actually California does very heavy promotions here about being the dairy capital of the US. California Cheese, etc.
Maybe there should be some truth in advertising...shouldn't title town be some place like New York where the Yankees, Knicks, Islanders, Rangers, Mets, Giants, Jets all have titles. Or any number of other places?
I get the history...it's cute and really I don't care.....as long as we all know America's Team is in Dallas. ;D
Chico, as a marketing professional I know you know the difference between happy cheese comes from happy cow from America's daily land. i didn't see many California cheese ad's in Scottsdale last week during my golf trip last week - yes I know hot - but I still did not see any. My point was that Wisconsin has been and always will be know America's Dairyland due historical significance and the historical weight they have gained. Its intirsic value.
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muarmy81... your a Bears fan, and you despise everything Packers, it's like me being a Brewers fan and despising everything Cubs... thats how it goes...
The title of Titletown is the Green Bay Packers, it has been for decades... like someone has stated on here... next year are we going to decide which city is the Windy city? because I guarantee there is some town in Kansas or Iowa which will compete for being more "windy".. however people from Chicago will bitch till no tomorrow... its a name that is with the city, just like Titletown is for Green Bay.
If ESPN makes any other city Titletown, numerous letters will be sent to that station. Hey, how about we start the which station is the "world wide leader in sports" station? See how ESPN enjoys that one.
I for one could care less if some other city tries to stake a claim as the "Windy City". And you do know that it was nick-named the windy city for all the politicians back in the day, (Blowing a lot of hot air) as well as during Chicago's rivalry with Cinncy during the 1860's and 1870's not necessarily for the fact that there's physically more wind in the city? I think that a lot of residents of Chicago aren't that insecure about somebody calling themselves a "Windy City". I really wouldn't think ESPN would get too worried about somebody claiming to be a "Sports Leader" because they could prove their claim through actions...showing more sports than any other station. CNN, MSNBC, Fox all claim to be the "Election Leaders" or have the "Best political Coverage" and "Experts" but that's all based on what they can deliver. Those news stations display the best coverage that they can and let the viewers decide. Similarily, ESPN was going to let other cities make their argument as "Titletown" and let viewers decide. 1 championship in the last 40 years? I guess I would be insecure about my claim to the title "Titletown" as well.
chili: Your first response to me was that CA and SC don't try and call themselves the dairy state or the Peach state and then your next response is that they do fuss over it...well, which is it? Do they care or do they not?
And to stir the pot a little more I heard ESPN refer to Boston as title town this morning on sportscenter...let's send the angry mob over to boston because how dare they take our name!!! Oh wait 17 NBA Championships, 2 World Series Championships, and actual RECENT championships in football. (3 Within the last 7 years)
And let the revolt begin....fire away guys :-*
Edit: Thanks, I did post that wrong...3 in 7
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(4 Within the last 7 years)
It is actually 3 in the last 7 years....lets get stats right before we post
The only team to win more in 7 years is the Packers....5 in 7...the only franchise to do so
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Chico, as a marketing professional I know you know the difference between happy cheese comes from happy cow from America's daily land. i didn't see many California cheese ad's in Scottsdale last week during my golf trip last week - yes I know hot - but I still did not see any. My point was that Wisconsin has been and always will be know America's Dairyland due historical significance and the historical weight they have gained. Its intirsic value.
I understand, just as Milwaukee is considered the beer capital of the US (at one point beer capital of the world) even though it's not. Chicago is still known as 2nd city even though it's not anymore.
I guess one thing to consider in your statement is the "always will be"...things change, perceptions change, realities change.
If Green Bay goes 50 years without winning another title and say another team wins 10 in that timeframe, don't you think some folks would scratch their head at a titletown claim? Perhaps. Plenty of examples of names / nicknames of places or things from long ago that no longer stick because they died off through the generations or simply became so untrue in reality that they were no longer promoted as such.
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It is actually 3 in the last 7 years....lets get stats right before we post
The only team to win more in 7 years is the Packers....5 in 7...the only franchise to do so
Boston Celtics won 8 straight championships, and 12 in 14 years.
UCLA Bruins won 7 straight championships
New York Islanders won 4 straight championships
Montreal Canadians won 5 straight championships
New York Yankees won 5 straight championships and 8 in 11 years
Etc, etc
Plenty of titletowns and great storied championship runs out there....of course most of them were way back in the day when there weren't many teams in the leagues (same benefit the Packers had), shortened playoff series, no salary caps, no free agency.
Much harder to go on those dynasty runs today or even the last few decades.
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Boston Celtics won 8 straight championships, and 12 in 14 years.
UCLA Bruins won 7 straight championships
New York Islanders won 4 straight championships
Montreal Canadians won 5 straight championships
New York Yankees won 5 straight championships and 8 in 11 years
Etc, etc
Plenty of titletowns and great storied championship runs out there....of course most of them were way back in the day when there weren't many teams in the leagues (same benefit the Packers had), shortened playoff series, no salary caps, no free agency.
Much harder to go on those dynasty runs today or even the last few decades.
I completely agree...I was just talking football franchises by the way I know about the other sports dyansties.
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The Chicago Bulls won 6 in 8 years and that is only because #23 "retired".
And to follow up on another point. Windy City has absolutely zero association with any kind of weather related wind. It has to do with the politicians and also the bragging about how great the world's fair was going to be.
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Chicago is still known as 2nd city even though it's not anymore.
Not quite sure what you mean by this. Second City is a reference to the rebuilding of the city after the Chicago Fire.
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Not quite sure what you mean by this. Second City is a reference to the rebuilding of the city after the Chicago Fire.
Yes, that's one reference but not the only one....I was referencing the version of 2nd city as in importance, population, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_city#United_States
[edit] United States
(March 2008)
In the United States, the term has long been a nickname for Chicago, which has a history as the largest urban area second to New York City. However, in the 1980s, Chicago was displaced by Los Angeles as the second largest city in the United States (if considering the metropolitan area, it could be argued that this had taken place a decade earlier). Chicago has embraced its "Second City" moniker and has widely accepted it as a shorthand name for the city; this is the origin of the name of The Second City comedy troupe. Sometimes the nickname has been used derisively, as when the New York Mets overcame the Chicago Cubs 9 1/2 game lead in 1969, and New York's mayor, John Lindsay, stated that, "Chicago is still the second city."
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Not that I mind the Packers, being from Green Bay, but I don't understand the need for the constant "most championships" talk. Most of the championships happened when there were like four teams. The fact that the team can't move is great as are the ties to the community. No other city lives and dies by how the team plays. Either I really don't get it after living in Green Bay for years, or "tradition" seems to be a poor excuse to explain all the things that make absolutely no sense. The "stock" thing is stupid-it might have had some validity when they issued stock in the 60's but the 90's "offering" was nothing more than a gimmick. The only incentive to being a shareholder is sitting in an an annual PR charade once a year. When they want some more money I'm sure they'll get some more people to pay $200 for a share though.
I get the whole tailgating thing and the small town pride, and even the parking on people's lawns near the stadium. That stuff sticks with you when you live in Green Bay and follow the team. But some of it just never clicked with me, like how these people will watch 3 hours of "Packer shows" Monday and Tuesday nights that consist of players saying nothing about football and "Q&A" sessions consisting of little kids asking the players if they like playing football. Only a matter of weeks until they are all glued to the TV every night for the "Training Camp Report" where you get pointless speculation on who's going to make the team, drunk guys calling in and asking idiotic questions, and you get to learn the hobbies of players that they will be further enjoying when they are unemployed after they get cut two days later. Watching this garbage isn't being a "true fan", it's a way of dealing with small town boredom.
And the last thing that bothers me is that Packer fans still hold a huge grudge against Javon Walker for wanting out of Green Bay. Every team has holdouts and is put in the same situation every year; it's the NFL's ridiculous salary structure that somehow earns praise as being the best in sports. Just because he decided to take advantage of that and not enjoy all Green Bay had to offer him is no reason to still hear fans talk about how "he had it coming" when his teammate died in his arms and now when he gets beaten unconscious.
+1,000,000
Thank you for writing that so I didn't need to. Grew up about 30 minutes from Lambau Field. Never became a Packers fan because the cultish obsession with Brett Favre of attention-starved Northern Wisconsin residents grated on me.
The only thing I would amplify is that this BS about "12 world championships" really is pretty sad. The idea of a "world championship" only came about when the NFL and AFL began playing one another in what would be known as the "Super Bowl."
Sorry kids, but the Packers only have 3 world championships. You can try to make it otherwise by utterly obnoxiously putting each year you won the 8-team NFL end-of-season percentage ranking in your stadium, but it doesn't change the truth.
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+1,000,000
Thank you for writing that so I didn't need to. Grew up about 30 minutes from Lambau Field. Never became a Packers fan because the cultish obsession with Brett Favre of attention-starved Northern Wisconsin residents grated on me.
The only thing I would amplify is that this BS about "12 world championships" really is pretty sad. The idea of a "world championship" only came about when the NFL and AFL began playing one another in what would be known as the "Super Bowl."
Sorry kids, but the Packers only have 3 world championships. You can try to make it otherwise by utterly obnoxiously putting each year you won the 8-team NFL end-of-season percentage ranking in your stadium, but it doesn't change the truth.
http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/team/championships
The NFL tends to disagree with you, and I'll take their word as a governing body in this situation over yours. I'd argue that your anti-Packer bias is just as strong as my pro-Packer bias, by the way you talk with disgust about your fellow cheeseheads (and LambEau Field). It's true that you may have an agenda. It's also true that I may have one. The NFL, on the other hand, does not. They say Green Bay has 12 world championships. The record stands.
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Can you read? God, this is why I can't stand Packer fans.
It says NOWHERE on the link you provide that they are "WORLD CHAMPIONS."
It makes about as much sense as saying the Packers were "INTERGALACTIC CHAMPIONS."
It befits the football intelligence of the average Packer fan that you can't even accept that the first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the SUPERBOWL, something that didn't start until 1967.
You're right, "the record stands": 3 world championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_wins_by_team).
Worse than the San Francisco 49ers. Worse than the Dallas Cowboys. Worse than the Pittsburg Steelers. And the same as the Raiders, Redskins, Patriots and Giants.
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how many other countries have players in the NFL? so world champions in general is kind of misleading since there are only about 5 other countries in the world that give a rat's @ss about throwball. league champs 12 times. ok, so in the sport, they are the champs more times than any other team. enough said. you two are arguing about an insignificant little detail, world vs league. who cares? back to the real football for me. Come on Netherlands!!
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The United States is full of themselves everytime we make these "world" claims. It's stupid. World Series...really? I don't see any other countries playing in it. World champions of football or baseball or basketball.
Lame.
The Packers have 12 championships...end of story. Though I think those that argue that the players were split into the AFL or the old All American Football Conference have a legit beef. Just as I think UW-Madison's basketball national title when there were only 8 teams invited is not anywhere close to a title of today...some would argue the same about some of the Packers, Lions, Browns, Bears titles when every few teams existed.
Oh well....everyone has an opinion. For my money, there are two periods in pro football. Pre merger and post merger. Pre merger it was the Packers...post merger it's been dominated by 3 teams (Cowboys...8 title appearances and 5 championships, 49ers 5 championships, Steelers 6 title appearances and 5 titles). Then there are a entire slew of teams like the Giants, Packers, Patriots, Broncos that come in at the second tier in the post merger era.
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Can you read? God, this is why I can't stand Packer fans.
It says NOWHERE on the link you provide that they are "WORLD CHAMPIONS."
It makes about as much sense as saying the Packers were "INTERGALACTIC CHAMPIONS."
It befits the football intelligence of the average Packer fan that you can't even accept that the first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the SUPERBOWL, something that didn't start until 1967.
You're right, "the record stands": 3 world championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_wins_by_team).
Worse than the San Francisco 49ers. Worse than the Dallas Cowboys. Worse than the Pittsburg Steelers. And the same as the Raiders, Redskins, Patriots and Giants.
That's why you can't stand Packer fans? How about the NFL? Any football historian? You clearly fail to realize that those early Packer teams were some of the most stacked in league history, both sides of the ball littered with hall of famers.
You can continue to pick and choose your championships. The rest of the league will continue to acknowledge the Packers' accomplishments, both past and present.
There is no possible way I can disagree with Chicos. The Packers are in the second tier of the post merger era in the NFL. The Steelers, Cowboys, and 49ers are in the first. That's fine. But championships are championships, and you can't just decide that some count and some don't, based on your own scale of importance. The NFL's opinion is the one that matters, and they say 12.
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That's why you can't stand Packer fans? How about the NFL? Any football historian? You clearly fail to realize that those early Packer teams were some of the most stacked in league history, both sides of the ball littered with hall of famers.
You can continue to pick and choose your championships. The rest of the league will continue to acknowledge the Packers' accomplishments, both past and present.
There is no possible way I can disagree with Chicos. The Packers are in the second tier of the post merger era in the NFL. The Steelers, Cowboys, and 49ers are in the first. That's fine. But championships are championships, and you can't just decide that some count and some don't, based on your own scale of importance. The NFL's opinion is the one that matters, and they say 12.
Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.
Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!
I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?
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Has anyone discussed this with Freeway?
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Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.
Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!
I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?
So you grew up 30 minutes from Lambeau and your football education was far better than the rest us. Ok I got that part. The argument you make seems to reflect more of a Dallas we are America's Team rather than Green Bay is or isn't Titletown. If your league says the team with the best record is the champion are you the champion if you have the best record? If that same league says if you win the final game whatever you call it and you do are you the champion? The point is you can only beat the teams in your league as the league is set up. Would you have liked the Packers to play the Yankees in a football/baseball battle royal before the word "Superbowl" was invented?
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So you grew up 30 minutes from Lambeau and your football education was far better than the rest us. Ok I got that part. The argument you make seems to reflect more of a Dallas we are America's Team rather than Green Bay is or isn't Titletown. If your league says the team with the best record is the champion are you the champion if you have the best record? If that same league says if you win the final game whatever you call it and you do are you the champion? The point is you can only beat the teams in your league as the league is set up. Would you have liked the Packers to play the Yankees in a football/baseball battle royal before the word "Superbowl" was invented?
HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.
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HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've got are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.
You did grow up near Green Bay, didn't you? (so did I) People from that area can't seem to discuss anything without yelling (or unnecessarily capitalizing words) at each other. Relax.
Back to the discussion, though... is it "unendingly nauseating" to hear a Yankees fan refer to their 26 World Championships? Or is it just an "attention-starved" Wisconsin thing?
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HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.
I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.
Thanks for saying hello warrior07. If you would like to pay for a ticket I would consider taking you to a game. Then you may see what the hype is all about. They are good seats fifty yard line eight rows up. You do seem to take this very personal. Is this part of your dislike of Favre?
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Thanks for the invitation, but I've been to about 6 or 8 games already. I wouldn't know that the Packers obnoxiously display "WORLD CHAMPIONS" along with 12 dates in Lambeau without having been there.
And I actually don't dislike Favre or most of the Packer players. Just 99% of the fan base. I can hate a cult without hating the thing a cult revers.
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Thanks for the invitation, but I've been to about 6 or 8 games already. I wouldn't know that the Packers obnoxiously display "WORLD CHAMPIONS" along with 12 dates in Lambeau without having been there.
And I actually don't dislike Favre or most of the Packer players. Just 99% of the fan base. I can hate a cult without hating the thing a cult revers.
I don't disagree with everything you said. I just think they only could play the teams the league put on the field.
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Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.
Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!
I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?
If they were to change the name from "Super Bowl" to "World Championship" in 5 years would people have to discount any "League Championship" and "Super Bowl" won by any team? We would just start out as whoever won the first "World Championship" has 1 championship and the rest of the league has 0 and that's all that counts? Obviously that won't happen, but I'm just wondering what your take on that would be.
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Isn't Green Bay on the list? Don't they have a good chance of being voted #1 and then GB will have further validation? When someone says "titletown" I automatically think of GB because that has just been said for so many years on national tv and other media.
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If they were to change the name from "Super Bowl" to "World Championship" in 5 years would people have to discount any "League Championship" and "Super Bowl" won by any team? We would just start out as whoever won the first "World Championship" has 1 championship and the rest of the league has 0 and that's all that counts? Obviously that won't happen, but I'm just wondering what your take on that would be.
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but the point is, in 1967 a bigger, more intense playoff competition began in the arena of American football that joined together two existing leagues, the NFL and the AFL. At this point, they decided to call it the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" and (I believe 1-2 years later) changed that to the "Superbowl." Given that the name "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the specific name of the NFL-AFL competition (or the NFC-AFC competition, if you prefer), it is simply not the same thing to claim that, for instance, the Packer's first three NFL "championships" (I think I'm being slightly generous in claiming that winning by percentage ranking in a 8-10 game league is a championship) are the same thing as the latter "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" as advertised by the Packer's organization and fan base. The name of the competition does not matter. The aura of importance created by the name does.
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Warrior07, you effort to invalidate the accomplishments of the Packers are pitiful. Your agenda is plain as day. You've sunken to using semantics to validate your already-shaky point.
If you really have a problem with the phrase "world" championship and how we use it, then so be it. In reality, the term "world" championship didn't even fit in 1967, nor does it fit today. It's an American sport. But if you're really going to establish a difference between the term "championship" (pre-merger) and "world championship" (post-merger) you're barking up the wrong tree.
The point is, a championship is outlasting whatever competition stands in your way at any given time and excelling past all obstacles. The Packers have been champions 12 times (World Champions, League Champions, NFL Champions, Champions of Professional Football, I don't care how you want to look at it, just don't play this semantics game with me, it's pointless). That is more championships than any other team. Something we're proud of, and continue to be proud of.
You've put the "aura of importance" on the name yourself. Your semantics game holds no weight in the grand scheme of NFL history, but Packer championships stand the test of time.
As far as attacking the self esteem of Green Bay natives, Wisconsinites, and Packer fans everywhere, it's been said that those who lack self esteem tend to take it out on others, so you may want to take a long look in the mirror before challenging the collective self esteem of an entity that spans areas all across the globe. The only person here who seems to be lacking self esteem or starving for attention is you.
I've freely admitted, as will many Packer fans, that in the post merger era of the NFL, Dallas, San Francisco, and Pittsburgh are the collective king. Where we disagree is that you somehow feel that invalidates Packer championships or somehow makes them less worthy.
It's all about being on top of the competition in whatever era you play. The Packers were on top of the football "world" in the early 30's, the mid 30's, again in the 60's, and most recently in 1996.
(http://images.packers.com/images/history_2004/champions_top.jpg)
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Ok, thanks for playing.
You don't want to look at any history. You don't want to look at anything that's been published. You don't know a damn thing about football or history. YOU are the one OBSESSED, even ADDICTED to semantics. You live by it. You die by it. You own a billion articles of clothing that proclaim it. You've designed your home to reflect it. I understand the weight of importance you've placed in this imaginary universe somehow being true. Trust me, it's the world I and every person I knew who could fled. I know how hard you cling to it.
You can't admit that winning a Superbowl -- a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in the words of the then-NFL and AFL, which you refuse to accept -- is simply not the same thing as winning what would now be a conference title while an entire other league exists, as did in the 1960's before the merger, or winning by percentage default in the 1920's-30's. These are NOT my words, they are those of the NFL. To argue with that is to argue with the NFL. Again, you know no history.
It's you who have a sad, sad problem with the word "WORLD." That's what the NFL has used to describe the Superbowl. That is not what anyone - ANYONE - used to describe anything before. They are simply not the same.
If you have something based on actual HISTORY, I'd love to discuss it. Otherwise, I'd suggest you and your fellow fans get a life.
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Let me ask you this, PBI.
If winning the NFL championship is the same thing in the 1920's as in the post merger era, so much so that they can both be called by their post-merger name (such as you and all other Packer fans do), "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS," do you believe that the NFL should retroactively apply the term Superbowl to the beginning of the NFL and then simply renumber the post-merger Superbowls? They are the same thing, right?
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Let me ask you this, PBI.
If winning the NFL championship is the same thing in the 1920's as in the post merger era, so much so that they can both be called by their post-merger name (such as you and all other Packer fans do), "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS," do you believe that the NFL should retroactively apply the term Superbowl to the beginning of the NFL and then simply renumber the post-merger Superbowls? They are the same thing, right?
No.... typically speaking, the full description of the Packers Championship prowess is "12 World Championships including 3 Super Bowls." I think that does it justice. The game wasn't called a Super Bowl until after the merger. You're correct. But the NFL is and was the highest level of football available at the time (as displayed by the domination of Lombardi's Packers both before and after the merger). By competing and winning at the highest level of American Football, you are the world champion at that sport.
The spot where weakness remains in my argument is that the Packers didn't defeat the champion of a competing league for the 1961, 1962 and 1965 championships. Now, on a side note, you may agree with me that it would be reasonable to assume that Green Bay likely would have defeated the AFL champion in those years, but obviously nothing is for certain. That 1962 team is considered one of the top 5 teams of all time.
As far as the championships before that, does the fact that those teams were not asked to win in a playoff format discount what they did? I mean, what do you call it? There was no football team in the world at the time capable of beating them to the point of having a better record over a 14 game season, the criteria that was judged at that time.
As far as this argument is concerned, I apologize for getting a bit heated in my last post. I never wanted this to get personal, and I still don't. I actually enjoy this debate a lot, because I'm quite passionate about the Packers, and I'd really like it to continue. Especially in a friendly manner. So no hard feelings?
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The United States is full of themselves everytime we make these "world" claims. It's stupid. World Series...really? I don't see any other countries playing in it. World champions of football or baseball or basketball.
I guess the "World Series" title technically belongs to Japan, since they won that joke of a "World Baseball Classic" two years ago. Speaking of which, do they really need to have that again next year and make a bunch of star players stink at the beginning of the year because they missed spring training?
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ummm no, they couldn't take espn to court. they are not using the term for any financial gain. it'd be like if they took you to court for starting this thread, which is for the mere purposes of creating a discussion, which is all ESPN is trying to do.
Just to bring this back to the forefront, voting starts tonight on this abomination of a contest.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/titletown/index
And to address what I have quoted here, I will once again remind everyone that "Titletown U.S.A." is trademarked by the Green Bay Packers.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=h9mmu4.2.12
Contrary to what the above post says, ESPN's "Titletown U.S.A. brought to you by Dick's Sporting Goods" sounds suspiciously like corporate sponsorship to me, and I'm surprised that the Packers HAVEN'T taken them to court for it yet. This is clearly just a publicity stunt and ESPN IS making a buck off of it.
If this is anything like Click for Cans, it won't even be a contest.
Go Titletown. Go Pack.
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Will this thread ever die?
Since you've gotten so worked up over this meaningless issue I think I'm going to vote for Boston just so GB doesn't win this worthless "contest".
Hugs and Kisses... :-* ;D
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Will this thread ever die?
Since you've gotten so worked up over this meaningless issue I think I'm going to vote for Boston just so GB doesn't win this worthless "contest".
Hugs and Kisses... :-* ;D
Good luck with that... the Packers don't lose online voting contests.
http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansResults.aspx
That's 5 years in a row now.
This is merely a matter of retaining what is already ours. Even if we were to lose, Titletown U.S.A. is still Green Bay, WI, but that won't be an issue. Trust me.
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And to address what I have quoted here, I will once again remind everyone that "Titletown U.S.A." is trademarked by the Green Bay Packers.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=h9mmu4.2.12
Contrary to what the above post says, ESPN's "Titletown U.S.A. brought to you by Dick's Sporting Goods" sounds suspiciously like corporate sponsorship to me, and I'm surprised that the Packers HAVEN'T taken them to court for it yet. This is clearly just a publicity stunt and ESPN IS making a buck off of it.
Assuming you're talking about the only one that I could find (it appears the trademark office doesn't allow direct links to entries), it only applies to apparel. Unless ESPN is selling hats, the Pack would lose said lawsuit in the blink of an eye.
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Good luck with that... the Packers don't lose online voting contests.
http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansResults.aspx
That's 5 years in a row now.
This is merely a matter of retaining what is already ours. Even if we were to lose, Titletown U.S.A. is still Green Bay, WI, but that won't be an issue. Trust me.
i agree with everyone that the titletown contest was dumb in the first place, espn does this in the summer because they need something else to talk about other than baseball and nfl training camp. but man, is it sweet to see a packer fan eat his words
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Good luck with that... the Packers don't lose online voting contests.
http://www.chunky.com/ClickForCansResults.aspx
That's 5 years in a row now.
This is merely a matter of retaining what is already ours. Even if we were to lose, Titletown U.S.A. is still Green Bay, WI, but that won't be an issue. Trust me.
Valdosta Georgia is the winner. Thank God!
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glad this espn farce is over.
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glad this espn farce is over.
I'm going to forever refer to Valdosta as TITLETOWN USA
:o
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I wonder what percent of ESPN visitors knew there was a Valdosta, GA before this contest began.
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FYI: Wisconsin is still #1 in cheese production and will continue to be for awhile.
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/pf/story.jsp?related=1&idq=/ff/story/0001/stand/farmscene.htm
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Just to stir things up a little more....
My dad (packer fan), brothers and me (educated MU Bear fans) went to GB for the Bears game in 1998. We've have season tiks to the Bears, and always arrive at Soldier Field to tailgate by 7:30 or so. We arrived in GB the Saturday before game, stayed in a hotel that night, and arrived at the stadium about 8:00 on Sunday morning. We were astonished that the parking lots didn't even open until 9:00. We ended up in the Packer HOF parking lot, the 1st car there. We set up all our Bears chairs, flags etc right on the sidewalk so all could see.
Tailgating in Chicago is much more intense, starts earlier and ends longer. The food is also much better...
Take that!!!!
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Come on... Everyone is blowing this out of proportion. Do Packers fans need to chill? Yes; this ESPN crap doesn't change a thing. But do they have a legitimate gripe? Yeah, they do.
Nicknames and semantics are incredibly important to the self-perception of any sports franchise. Think of the uproar in New York if ESPN had a contest for current baseball players to be voted on as the next Great Bambino. Or think if another NFL franchise tried to create a fan section called the Black Hole. It just isn't right. These nicknames are a part of the tradition in their respective hometowns.
I think the contest is dumb, and no one is going to remember that some dinky southern high school won it, so I think people should relax. But I do think that the idea that the nation can vote on a nickname already used for decades is silly.
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Just to stir things up a little more....
My dad (packer fan), brothers and me (educated MU Bear fans) went to GB for the Bears game in 1998. We've have season tiks to the Bears, and always arrive at Soldier Field to tailgate by 7:30 or so. We arrived in GB the Saturday before game, stayed in a hotel that night, and arrived at the stadium about 8:00 on Sunday morning. We were astonished that the parking lots didn't even open until 9:00. We ended up in the Packer HOF parking lot, the 1st car there. We set up all our Bears chairs, flags etc right on the sidewalk so all could see.
Tailgating in Chicago is much more intense, starts earlier and ends longer. The food is also much better...
Take that!!!!
Maybe if there were more bear fans like you they would have a 50 year waiting list to get season tickets like the packers do. Instead, the Bears continue to be near the bottom rung in terms of stadium capacity for NFL home games. :D
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Come on... Everyone is blowing this out of proportion. Do Packers fans need to chill? Yes; this ESPN crap doesn't change a thing. But do they have a legitimate gripe? Yeah, they do.
Nicknames and semantics are incredibly important to the self-perception of any sports franchise. Think of the uproar in New York if ESPN had a contest for current baseball players to be voted on as the next Great Bambino. Or think if another NFL franchise tried to create a fan section called the Black Hole. It just isn't right. These nicknames are a part of the tradition in their respective hometowns.
I think the contest is dumb, and no one is going to remember that some dinky southern high school won it, so I think people should relax. But I do think that the idea that the nation can vote on a nickname already used for decades is silly.
I'll have to remember that the next time a Packers fan tries to tell me they are America's Team. ;)
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Touche, good sir. :D
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Maybe if there were more bear fans like you they would have a 50 year waiting list to get season tickets like the packers do. Instead, the Bears continue to be near the bottom rung in terms of stadium capacity for NFL home games. :D
Huh? That made no sense. What does stadium capacity have to do with anything?
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I'm trying to figure that out as well
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Huh? That made no sense. What does stadium capacity have to do with anything?
Sorry, should have reread that and went back and clarified. Over the last 5 years (as far back as I looked) the Bears have been in the bottom of the nfl in terms of attendance as a % of stadium capacity.
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Sorry, should have reread that and went back and clarified. Over the last 5 years (as far back as I looked) the Bears have been in the bottom of the nfl in terms of attendance as a % of stadium capacity.
To be fair, does that include when they had to play in Champaign? That probably didn't help but I can remember if that was in the time period.
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The Bears have one of the smallest stadium capacities in the NFL. What difference does that make though? It has nothing to do with the amount of people that want to go to Bears games.
You're foolish if you don't think the Bears (along with the Redskins, Cowboys) have one of the largest fan bases in the NFL. There's a reason a mediocre Bears time is on in primetime as much as they are this year.
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The Bears have one of the smallest stadium capacities in the NFL. What difference does that make though? It has nothing to do with the amount of people that want to go to Bears games.
You're foolish if you don't think the Bears (along with the Redskins, Cowboys) have one of the largest fan bases in the NFL. There's a reason a mediocre Bears time is on in primetime as much as they are this year.
You're right the Bears do have one of the smallest stadiums in the NFL, which makes it all the more embarrassing that they can't fill it.
2005 (Super Bowl Year): Solder Field was 92.8% full for the year, 5th worst
2006 (Year after Super Bowl); Solder was 92.9% full for the year, 3rd worst
The numbers have been about as bad each year since 2002.
For the record, the Packers have led every year since 2002.
2005
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Seriously, are you clueless? In the history of internet posts, this is one of the most moronic things I've ever heard someone argue.
EVERY game has been a sell out. Every....single....one. I implore you to come out for the opener against Tampa and show me all these empty seats. As a former employee of the team and a current season ticket holder, your stats are useless and have ZERO foundation.
I can't even believe I'm arguing this, that's how dumb this is.
Is the green and gold Kool Aid not on ice today?
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Seriously, are you clueless? In the history of internet posts, this is one of the most moronic things I've ever heard someone argue.
EVERY game has been a sell out. Every....single....one. I implore you to come out for the opener against Tampa and show me all these empty seats. As a former employee of the team and a current season ticket holder, your stats are useless and have ZERO foundation.
I can't even believe I'm arguing this, that's how dumb this is.
Is the green and gold Kool Aid not on ice today?
Well you better call Stats Inc. then because they provide the numbers for ESPN and thats what they say.
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If you're going to make an argument, at least know what the hell you're talking about. I called my old pals at the Bears and figured I was correct.
The Bears will always be around the 92.0-92.6% mark of capacity. Every year. All tickets sold.
The team does not take fans with purchased "seats" on the Miller Lite Party Deck, sideline passes, charitable suite passes, as figured into seat capacity. These people are paid customers accounting for paid attendance, but won't have a seat to fill. Therefore the Bears do not include them in capacity %.
If you're going to rely on some random espn.com attendance site, know what you're talking about first. Don't make some ridiculous comment trying to make it seem like one of the most popular teams in the NFL doesn't support their team.
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If you're going to make an argument, at least know what the hell you're talking about. I called my old pals at the Bears and figured I was correct.
The Bears will always be around the 92.0-92.6% mark of capacity. Every year. All tickets sold.
The team does not take fans with purchased "seats" on the Miller Lite Party Deck, sideline passes, charitable suite passes, as figured into seat capacity. These people are paid customers accounting for paid attendance, but won't have a seat to fill. Therefore the Bears do not include them in capacity %.
If you're going to rely on some random espn.com attendance site, know what you're talking about first. Don't make some ridiculous comment trying to make it seem like one of the most popular teams in the NFL doesn't support their team.
I didn't mean to anger you Dish as much as I have seem to have done, my initial point was simply to reply to sigep80's dig against the green and gold.
I'll admit when I'm beaten, obviously you have more knowledge than I on this subject, but I don't think espn.com is exactly a random site. Although it does seem weird to me that the Bears would report their attendance different that other teams I'll take your word on it since you seem to be in the know. I just figured the difference in capacity was due to no-shows or unused suite allotments.
The Bears are a popular team (usually finish somewhere around 8 or 9 in Harris interactive poll of team popularity) but they have a long way to go in catching the Pack ;D
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No anger, I just can't tolerate too much ignorance.
The NFL doesn't count official attendance as any type of formal statistic, so those numbers you see on espn.com are misleading to a large degree.
The Bears don't count attendance any differently than anyone else. You see some teams count at over 100% capacity. Logically speaking, this should seem impossible, but these teams choose to count SRO's as above capacity (which is fine). The NFL doesn't care, as long as butts are in the seats and eyes are watching at home. The Jags can cover 10,000 seats, not sell them, and still have a "sell out".
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No anger, I just can't tolerate too much ignorance.
The NFL doesn't count official attendance as any type of formal statistic, so those numbers you see on espn.com are misleading to a large degree.
The Bears don't count attendance any differently than anyone else. You see some teams count at over 100% capacity. Logically speaking, this should seem impossible, but these teams choose to count SRO's as above capacity (which is fine). The NFL doesn't care, as long as butts are in the seats and eyes are watching at home. The Jags can cover 10,000 seats, not sell them, and still have a "sell out".
Wow, Dish... Relax. It's just a discussion, no need to get so angry. JM brings up an interesting point and provided reliable statistics to back it. Questioning the validity of the statistics is fine, and so is disagreeing... but tone down the anger and defensiveness. I don't think he was attacking you, just starting a discussion.
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I appreciate the concern, I'm really not angry at all. It's Bears/Packers talk, that's all there is to it.
The statistic was bogus, the NFL admits as much, it was a silly point to even bother bringing up I thought. My only point is if you're going to argue with a statistic, make sure it's something valid.
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Wow, Dish... Relax. It's just a discussion, no need to get so angry. JM brings up an interesting point and provided reliable statistics to back it. Questioning the validity of the statistics is fine, and so is disagreeing... but tone down the anger and defensiveness. I don't think he was attacking you, just starting a discussion.
How do you keep the weight off? I mean, you've posted at least 10 times but still have 0 posts attributed to you....I need that diet. ;)
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And the tailgating at Soldier Field is much better than in GB. Better defined as starting earlier, lasting later and a more diverse menu. Granted, I've only been to one game in GB, but I'd always heard about what great tailgating there was in GB, and what I saw of it was weak.
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I just try to watch my carb intake...
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And the tailgating at Soldier Field is much better than in GB. Better defined as starting earlier, lasting later and a more diverse menu. Granted, I've only been to one game in GB, but I'd always heard about what great tailgating there was in GB, and what I saw of it was weak.
Yeeaahhh, I'm gonna have to go ahead and, ah, disagree with you on that one. Granted, I've only been to one game at Soldier Field (Packers-Bears New Years Eve 2006. Great game. Great night), but I guess my experience at Soldier Field was much like yours at Lambeau.
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How do you keep the weight off? I mean, you've posted at least 10 times but still have 0 posts attributed to you....I need that diet. ;)
I think the moderators set the site so posts at the Superbar don't count towards your total # of posts.
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I appreciate the concern, I'm really not angry at all. It's Bears/Packers talk, that's all there is to it.
The statistic was bogus, the NFL admits as much, it was a silly point to even bother bringing up I thought. My only point is if you're going to argue with a statistic, make sure it's something valid.
Next time I post a statistic I'll go ahead and email the provider to make sure its valid, I mean who reads espn.com anyways? :D
Also, just wanted to note that the Bears are about as half as popular as the Packers are!!!
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And the tailgating at Soldier Field is much better than in GB. Better defined as starting earlier, lasting later and a more diverse menu. Granted, I've only been to one game in GB, but I'd always heard about what great tailgating there was in GB, and what I saw of it was weak.
*snort*
Lambeau Field is the tailgating capital of the WORLD. I was up there today for TRAINING CAMP and the entire parking lot on the side of the Oneida Gate was completely full of tailgaters, many with full tent setups, multiple grills (both propane and charcoal) and a wide variety of goodies, ranging from t-bone steaks to brats to lamb chops. And this is on a non-game day. You must not have been looking in the right places. Was there a driving rain storm or something?
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*snort*
Lambeau Field is the tailgating capital of the WORLD. I was up there today for TRAINING CAMP and the entire parking lot on the side of the Oneida Gate was completely full of tailgaters, many with full tent setups, multiple grills (both propane and charcoal) and a wide variety of goodies, ranging from t-bone steaks to brats to lamb chops. And this is on a non-game day. You must not have been looking in the right places. Was there a driving rain storm or something?
Did you happen to catch the classy Packers fans with the "Hey Rodgers-Break A Leg!" and other signs that only "great" fans would bring to training camp?
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Did you happen to catch the classy Packers fans with the "Hey Rodgers-Break A Leg!" and other signs that only "great" fans would bring to training camp?
You've been watching to much ESPN. They love this drama, and you're buying it. There was 9 or 10 guys walking around with a boom box playing a song called "We Love Brett Favre" and handing out fliers for the Brett Favre rally today before Family Night. The other 13,000 people who showed up for practice yesterday were concerned and passionate about the 80 men on the roster, as they should be.
Just a typical day during the football season in Green Bay, WI.
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You've been watching to much ESPN. They love this drama, and you're buying it. There was 9 or 10 guys walking around with a boom box playing a song called "We Love Brett Favre" and handing out fliers for the Brett Favre rally today before Family Night. The other 13,000 people who showed up for practice yesterday were concerned and passionate about the 80 men on the roster, as they should be.
Just a typical day during the football season in Green Bay, WI.
I was in Green Bay on Saturday. I saw the signs in person at training camp, and found it disgusting.
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I was in Green Bay on Saturday. I saw the signs in person at training camp, and found it disgusting.
There's no denying the fan base is split, currently. You can bet once September rolls around the focus will be on winning football games, which this team will be plenty capable of doing.
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PXIL, what difference would the weather make? Are you saying that if it's raining the packer fans wouldn't be tailgaiting?
I'll stand by my earlier post. We went to the packers/bears game in early Dec., arrived at 8:00 am and found the parking lot's don't even open until 9:00. We parked at the packer HOF lot, and were the first car in. We were already eating breakfast by the time and the packer fans started showing up.
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CAn anyone explain to me why the winner, Valdosta (?) GA, won this pathetic, waste of time, we-needed-something-to-fill-empty-time-slots segement. I never did hear/see why this place was titletown.
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PXIL, what difference would the weather make? Are you saying that if it's raining the packer fans wouldn't be tailgaiting?
I'll stand by my earlier post. We went to the packers/bears game in early Dec., arrived at 8:00 am and found the parking lot's don't even open until 9:00. We parked at the packer HOF lot, and were the first car in. We were already eating breakfast by the time and the packer fans started showing up.
How long ago was this game? Just curious. The Packers HOF has been housed inside Lambeau Field since 2003. In any case, the lot does not open until 9, you are correct. Tailgating usually starts around 6 AM (in some cases, I've seen earlier) in local church or grocery store parking lots as well as the back yards of most local residents, sometimes up to a few miles away from the stadium. They gradually grow closer, and by 9 AM, the entire town is in some sort of tailgate mode, and that doesn't JUST encompass those with parking passes for the Lambeau lot. It's a legitimate city wide tailgate. If you're JUST in the general vicinity of the stadium (as you would have been by going to the Packers HOF lot), you're missing the broad scope of how large the tailgate actually is. The diehards with parking passes don't show up at Lambeau until 9 because they're aware that's when the lot opens, and it's completely feasible that they're at a pre-tailgate tailgate not too far from the stadium.
I wish I still had a picture from Super Bowl XXXII. It's of about a thousand Packer fans who braved the Lambeau parking lot during a snow squall to tailgate and watch the game (in San Diego) on TV via generator. It's one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
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CAn anyone explain to me why the winner, Valdosta (?) GA, won this pathetic, waste of time, we-needed-something-to-fill-empty-time-slots segement. I never did hear/see why this place was titletown.
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3508790
and
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/titletown/index
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Thank you Chico.