Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

[goldeneagle91114]

Kolek should probably take the shot if he has time to setup well and release well.
Otherwise, him driving and dishing has been very effective.

To me, Morsell seems to be having major problems just about any time the ball touches his hands.
I don't believe he was in the last 3 minutes of regulation with the game in the balance.

Kolek: 0 Points, 8 Rebounds, 7 Assists, 3 TOs
Morsell: 8 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 4 TOs

Nothing has ever been officially stated, but a few different people on Scoop have noticed a significant limp. I believe he's banged up and just trying to play through it. I don't know if Shaka just needs to shut him down for a game or 2, but he is going to be strongly needed if we stand any chance in BEAST play.

[forgetful]

I think there are a lot of contributions to his problems shooting the ball right now, and many of them are also contributing problems to other shooters on the team.

1. Kolek is transitioning from a spot up shooter, to the man running the offense. An example would be Markus Howard, who shot 55% from 3 (on 4.8 attempt) his freshman year, when he was also getting to take many spot up shots as that is what his role dictated. When he had to handle the ball, the offense, and seek out his own shot the rest of his career, he was still an amazing shooter, but at a 40% clip not 55%. Kolek's slump/decrease in shooting efficiency is not unexpected.

2. We play a very aggressive system predicated on playing at a violent pace. This can be very effective in getting other teams uncomfortable, where they are unable to slow themselves down when needed. The problem is, that ability comes with practice. None of our guys have that practice right now, so they are also struggling with controlling their mental and physical pace on offense. Shooting/passing needs to be controlled, not violent. As the players, and Kolek (even harder when you are dictating the pace), get more accustomed to the system, they will play with still play physically violent, but their inner mental pace will be calmer/slower and shots will start falling.

3. They are all new to the system, and each other. They are all trying to find their roles. It will take time, but when they find those roles they will be far more efficient.

We just need to RELAX, and roll with the punches for now.

[tower912]

0-7 from three.
0-7 from the field overall, zero points.

Still flirts with double double.
Still talks smack to the upper deck of the octagon as game ends.

Yup yup. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Nothing has ever been officially stated, but a few different people on Scoop have noticed a significant limp. I believe he's banged up and just trying to play through it. I don't know if Shaka just needs to shut him down for a game or 2, but he is going to be strongly needed if we stand any chance in BEAST play.

Groin pull

[NCMUFan]

Coach's call whether Morsell should be in the game or a different player will produce better results.
We won, so I guess it was the right call not having Morsell in with two minutes to go.

[21Jumpstreet]

Interesting. Is this a conditioning problem? Learning curve?

This is my thought. Being the PG is work, physically and mentally, on both ends of the court. I felt this way about Carton last year. As his fitness improves and his ability to manage the point so will his shot. Kolek is a gamer.

[lawdog77]

Groin pull

This guy?

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=7536

[Stretchdeltsig]

He reminds me of Travis Diener

Right. Corner playing left handed with a broken arm. Travis could always shoot.

[TheGym]

A quick review of the NCAA website has him at #7 Freshman in 3pts made and did not qualify in the % category because he did not make 2.5 per game played.

And no, he is no Travis Diener.  I think the consensus at then end of his career will be he was very average.  Just my prediction.  I hope I am wrong.

[Shooter McGavin]

0-7 from three.
0-7 from the field overall, zero points.

Still flirts with double double.
Still talks smack to the upper deck of the octagon as game ends.

The last part is why you don’t give up on this guy.  Love the attitude.  Would love to have him be our JP Macura.  Keep shooting Tyler!

[BCHoopster]

I see a guy who is sped up when he shoots. Sloppy hand placement, particularly the guide hand. Leads to a funky release with some sidespin.

Do agree he needs to get some air under it.

Totally agree, poor form, needs to get better placement on top of the ball. Shoots a flat knuckleball with wrong spin.  I am totally shocked that his coaches have not changed his shot, until that happens he will have games like that. As a point guard which I played You get easier shots then a 2 guard.  Most of his shots are not even close.  I do not care what division in college he is, he gets open shots and basically misses.

[Lennys Tap]

I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

Kolek arrived with a history as a solid shooter (not a “great” shooter - whoever is asserting that is factually wrong) based on a legit sample size. That rep and sample size mean a longer leash re 3s. Carton arrived with the history as an uber athletic PG who rarely shot 3s because his real strengths were elsewhere. Why shoot 3s when it became clear that he was a good slasher but a poor shooter? So when he started launching (and missing) it’s not surprising people wanted him to play more to his strengths.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Kolek arrived with a history as a solid shooter (not a “great” shooter - whoever is asserting that is factually wrong) based on a legit sample size. That rep and sample size mean a longer leash re 3s. Carton arrived with the history as an uber athletic PG who rarely shot 3s because his real strengths were elsewhere. Why shoot 3s when it became clear that he was a good slasher but a poor shooter? So when he started launching (and missing) it’s not surprising people wanted him to play more to his strengths.

...Carton shot 40% from 3, averaged 1.2 3P makes a game, and 3.0 3P attempts a game as a freshman (in only 23.9 minutes a game) and was known as a good shooter in high school. He was not known as a PG "who rarely shot 3s" and a "poor shooter" when he arrived Marquette.

[MU82]

I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

DJ = Wojo.

Kolek = Shaka.

Duh!

I'm hopeful Kolek will work out of this slump, if that's what it is. He hasn't let it affect the other parts of his game, which sounds like it would be easy to do but it's not. And I have little doubt that Shaka has told him to keep shooting when open. He's gonna have a fine career but I'll hold off on the Diener comparisons until I see him carry us to victory in an NCAA tournament game.

I'm more concerned (if that's the right word) about Morsell. Talk about a reversion to mean. Look at Darryl's stats in 4 years -- not games, but YEARS -- at Maryland and his stats these last 6 games. Very similar ... except even less efficient this season. Not sure what happened to the first-4-games Darryl Morsell, but I miss him!

[Dr. Blackheart]

I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

[MU82]

If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

DJ had tremendous potential, and under Shaka he very well might have been our best player and an all-conference guy.

But for our situation, I'm actually glad DJ decided to leave because we would have gotten one more year out of him, tops. Kolek gets to play and improve here for 3-4 years. He already does a lot of things well; in a year or two, he actually might earn comparisons to some stars from the past.

[Lennys Tap]

...Carton shot 40% from 3, averaged 1.2 3P makes a game, and 3.0 3P attempts a game as a freshman (in only 23.9 minutes a game) and was known as a good shooter in high school. He was not known as a PG "who rarely shot 3s" and a "poor shooter" when he arrived Marquette.

Whether or not he was “known as a good shooter in high school” is beside the point. He had a good % in a small sample size and a lousy % (28.2%) the following year in a sample size almost 3x larger. Which is more meaningful? I’d say the latter.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Whether or not he was “known as a good shooter in high school” is beside the point. He had a good % in a small sample size and a lousy % (28.2%) the following year in a sample size almost 3x larger. Which is more meaningful? I’d say the latter.

Except the conversation we're having is about how Scoop reacted to Carton's shooting slump early in the season vs. Kolek's, so the sample size we are talking about isn't all of last season but the first few games of last season.

[Pakuni]

If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

But he will earn up to $85K in Greensboro, which may be more important than being the starting PG for a college team.

[MU82]

In 7 G League games, Carton is shooting 37% from the floor, including 23% from 3-point range. He's averaging 2.1 assists and 0.9 turnovers, a 2.33 A/TO ratio).

In 10 games for Marquette, Kolek is shooting 28% from the floor, including 22% from 3-point range. He's averaging 5.5 assists and 2.7 turnovers, a 2.04 A/TO ratio.

Those are simply stats. I'm not "concluding" anything from them.

My opinion is that DJ would have excelled on this team playing with these teammates and in Shaka's system. But as I said, long-term, Kolek will provide far more value to the program because he's likely to be around much longer.

[BrewCity83]

But he will earn up to $85K in Greensboro, which may be more important than being the starting PG for a college team.

Soooooo......he's making about 1/7 of what he could've made had he stayed in college and transferred to UNC?

[Lennys Tap]

Except the conversation we're having is about how Scoop reacted to Carton's shooting slump early in the season vs. Kolek's, so the sample size we are talking about isn't all of last season but the first few games of last season.

Maybe a conversation would be easier if you were a little less vague. What actually was “Scoop’s” reaction? When exactly did Scoop start reacting? IOW, source please. If people criticized Carton for taking too many 3s early in the season all we can say is that they proved prescient. By season’s end, DJ led the team in attempts despite the fact that his “make %” among the starters was (by a good margin) the worst. That seems like a demonstrably flawed strategy. When teams underperform as badly as last year’s team did those flaws are magnified.

[MU82]

Maybe a conversation would be easier if you were a little less vague. What actually was “Scoop’s” reaction? When exactly did Scoop start reacting? IOW, source please. If people criticized Carton for taking too many 3s early in the season all we can say is that they proved prescient. By season’s end, DJ led the team in attempts despite the fact that his “make %” among the starters was (by a good margin) the worst. That seems like a demonstrably flawed strategy. When teams underperform as badly as last year’s team did those flaws are magnified.

OK. By the same standards, Kolek is taking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many 3s.

But his coach has told him to keep shooting 'em -- just as DJ's coach did. Perhaps demonstrably flawed strategies on everybody's part!

FWIW ... I agree with Shaka that Kolek needs to shoot when he's wide open, even if he's missed 5 in a row. Generally speaking. If we need a 3 and he's been ice cold and has absolutely no confidence, he needs to drive and find the hot hand. But for the most part -- say, 9 minutes into the game or 3 minutes into the second half -- I want him to shoot if he's open. I wanted DJ to shoot in those situations, too.

[Lennys Tap]

OK. By the same standards, Kolek is taking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many 3s.

But his coach has told him to keep shooting 'em -- just as DJ's coach did. Perhaps demonstrably flawed strategies on everybody's part!

FWIW ... I agree with Shaka that Kolek needs to shoot when he's wide open, even if he's missed 5 in a row. Generally speaking. If we need a 3 and he's been ice cold and has absolutely no confidence, he needs to drive and find the hot hand. But for the most part -- say, 9 minutes into the game or 3 minutes into the second half -- I want him to shoot if he's open. I wanted DJ to shoot in those situations, too.

If, at the end of the season, Kolek leads the team in 3 point attempts and his % of makes is far worse than everyone else in the starting lineup you’ll have a point.

Until then, I’ll trust Shaka to make adjustments as he sees fit - something he looks pretty good at so far and something that was never our previous coach’s strong point.