If Henry Stayed ...

[Tugg Speedman]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

If Henry had stayed, how much better would we be?  Would we be better?

Thoughts?

[Loose Cannon]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

If Henry had stayed, how much better would we be?  Would we be better?

Thoughts?

  WHY.

[Windyplayer]

  WHY.

Yeah, the season started. Save it for June.

[Galway Eagle]

Depends on if we still ran the offense through him or if we were playing our current style with him. Essentially if we had Henry in there instead of Katin while still doing a fantastic job distributing and playing unselfish then yes we would be better. If we still played the toss it to Henry and occasionally Luke then stand around game we'd end up with another version of last year.

[Golden Avalanche]

My thoughts are I couldn't give a good god damn crap about hypotheticals. There's enough to like on the current roster that we don't need your attention whoring to whip our heads back every day for the next three months.

Give it a rest.

[Herman Cain]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

If Henry had stayed, how much better would we be?  Would we be better?

Thoughts?

The team chemistry is much better this year. Henry was a very talented college basketball player , but also an extremely selfish player. Henry was a me first stats guy.

Hauser has a lot of talent and comes from a culture of team oriented basketball. It shows with the way he works with the other players on the team.  I think Hauser will make people forget about Henry.

Also guys like Haanif and JJJ are more able to fully express their talents without Henry around.

The only thing that Henry added to the picture was an incredible ability to rebound. He made all the rebounds look easy which is quite a skill.

Watching the teams in the Big East over the last few days, I think this years team is more equipped to compete as we offer more scoring dimensions.

[RJax55]

My thoughts are I couldn't give a good god damn crap about hypotheticals. There's enough to like on the current roster that we don't need your attention whoring to whip our heads back every day for the next three months.

Give it a rest.

Yep.

[RJax55]

The team chemistry is much better this year. Henry was a very talented college basketball player , but also an extremely selfish player. Henry was a me first stats guy.

You make me laugh. Will you still be here next year when JJJ is gone?

[rocky_warrior]

...we'd have our full allotment of 13 scholarship players!

[Loose Cannon]

Watching the teams in the Big East over the last few days, I think this years team is more equipped to compete as we offer more scoring dimensions.

So now are you changing your prediction of Wins?  Are you now "Saying  Yes to the Dress?"

[Herman Cain]

So now are you changing your prediction of Wins?  Are you now "Saying  Yes to the Dress?"

I am definitely moving in that direction. The limiting factor is not our abilities, but the performance of the other schools in the conference. Looks like the conference is going to be tough. Would like to see how everyone else performs before I change my predictions.

[Loose Cannon]

I am definitely moving in that direction. The limiting factor is not our abilities, but the performance of the other schools in the conference. Looks like the conference is going to be tough. Would like to see how everyone else performs before I change my predictions.

Would that then be half way Thur the Conference schedule?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am definitely moving in that direction. The limiting factor is not our abilities, but the performance of the other schools in the conference. Looks like the conference is going to be tough. Would like to see how everyone else performs before I change my predictions.

This is absolutely correct. We could have a dominant non-conference and still end up in the bottom half of the Big East.

Vanderbilt, Michigan, Pitt, SMU, and Georgia < Villanova, Xavier, Seton Hall, Butler, Georgetown, and Creighton

[KampusFoods]

You make me laugh. Will you still be here next year when JJJ is gone?

He has to stick around to watch Sam Hauser's Considerable Upside Potential develop.

[Herman Cain]

He has to stick around to watch Sam Hauser's Considerable Upside Potential develop.

At the risk of getting out a little too much in front of my skis , I think Hauser has the potential of being one of the top 25 players in MU history when it is all said and done.

[Galway Eagle]

At the risk of getting out a little too much in front of my skis , I think Hauser has the potential of being one of the top 25 players in MU history when it is all said and done.

Did you say the same about Duane and Haanif after their first seasons?

[MUFlutieEffect]

Also guys like Haanif and JJJ are more able to fully express their talents without Henry around.

Back in 2010, LeBron should've said, "I'm going to fully express my talents in South Beach."

[GB Warrior]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

If Henry had stayed, how much better would we be?  Would we be better?

Thoughts?

Dearest Jesse,

STOP. Full stop.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Could have been a special year.

[brewcity77]

I think this is an excellent hypothetical discussion question, but better suited for at earliest mid-January or better yet after the season.

Henry leaving led to a lot of changes. It makes Sam Hauser's role much larger than it would have been. It completely changes the way we play on offense with the 4-out-1-in. If Henry stays, Reinhardt wouldn't be here. If Henry stays, Wally likely also stays. Luke would be impacted by having less space in the middle of the paint. Everyone else would be impacted by having fewer shooting opportunities. The defense would be impacted in numerous ways, by adding a shot blocker and physically intimidating presence, but also one that was often slow on rotations and could be exploited by quicker players at his position. Rebounding would likely be worse, though I'm not entirely sure about that. Want to get more time to see how this team rebounds compared to next year, especially how well Reinhardt rebounds (through a paltry two games his defensive rebounding is a career high percentage).

Bottom line, close the thread until next year, there's no real discussion to be held until we have some actual data.

[tower912]

KR probably would not be here.  The offensive ball movement would be slower.  Rebounding would be less of an issue.  Defense might not be as good.  Wally would still be here.

[Bocephys]

...we'd have our full allotment of 13 scholarship players!

We'd oversign by one, actually.  Wally doesn't get cut if Henry stays.

[MU82]

Before Henry arrived, I was rooting for Marquette.

If Henry stayed, I'd be rooting for Marquette.

Now that Henry's gone, I'm still rooting for Marquette.

There. That was easy.

Go Warriors!

[4everwarriors]

If BeeJay were a broad, he'd be F*ckin', hey?

[Lennys Tap]

Before Henry arrived, I was rooting for Marquette.

If Henry stayed, I'd be rooting for Marquette.

Now that Henry's gone, I'm still rooting for Marquette.

There. That was easy.

Go Warriors!

Right. This isn't a discussion board, it's a "rooting" board. We almost went off the rails. Thanks for getting us back on track.

[Lighthouse 84]

Yes, let's play the "what if" game.

What if Butch, Bo and The Dream were all in this team, and Al was the coach? 

HE is not on this team.  HE Is gone. The time to move on has passed, Heisy. 

[wadesworld]

Yes, let's play the "what if" game.

What if Butch, Bo and The Dream were all in this team, and Al was the coach? 

HE is not on this team.  HE Is gone gowne. The time to move on has passed, Heisy.

FIFY.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I don't think its a crazy question but maybe too soon to call.

I can't really think of a scenario where we would be worse, because what college team would be worse with an NBA player added to it.  I would have loved to have seen HE with the level of guard talent we have this year. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, let's play the "what if" game.

What if Butch, Bo and The Dream were all in this team, and Al was the coach? 

HE is not on this team.  HE Is gone. The time to move on has passed, Heisy.

Why do the MU fans who don't want to play this "what if" game feel the need to criticize those MU fans who think it's an interesting thing to contemplate? Aren't interested in the topic? Fine. Don't participate. Butt out and let interested parties have a discussion. Sheesh.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Would be interesting to see if Reinhardt would have still come and if someone besides Wally would have left.

I think Henry would make this a top 25 team easy. The success would depend on how his three point shooting improved and if he would accept a lesser role. I don't think last year's strategy of give the ball to Henry and see what he can do would be right for this team.

I also don't understand the hand wringing about this topic. It's an interesting what if.

[Lennys Tap]

 I don't think last year's strategy of give the ball to Henry and see what he can do would be right for this team.

I agree with your entire post but especially this part - I don't think it was right for last year's team either.

[wadesworld]

People get upset about the topic because there was quite literally never a chance that Hank was around for this year.  If it was something like the Vander situation where chances were he wasn't getting drafted but still could've played at MU, then sure it's an interesting topic.  But talking about what the team would look like had Hank stayed would be like talking about what the 2003-2004 team would've looked like had Wade stuck around and recruited LeBron to join him for a year at Marquette.  Never was going to happen.

[BubbaWilliams]

  If it was something like the Vander situation where chances were he wasn't getting drafted but still could've played at MU, then sure it's an interesting topic. 

That one still hurts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

People get upset about the topic because there was quite literally never a chance that Hank was around for this year.  If it was something like the Vander situation where chances were he wasn't getting drafted but still could've played at MU, then sure it's an interesting topic.  But talking about what the team would look like had Hank stayed would be like talking about what the 2003-2004 team would've looked like had Wade stuck around and recruited LeBron to join him for a year at Marquette.  Never was going to happen.

[MU82]

People get upset about the topic because there was quite literally never a chance that Hank was around for this year.  If it was something like the Vander situation where chances were he wasn't getting drafted but still could've played at MU, then sure it's an interesting topic.  But talking about what the team would look like had Hank stayed would be like talking about what the 2003-2004 team would've looked like had Wade stuck around and recruited LeBron to join him for a year at Marquette.  Never was going to happen.

I'm not the least bit "upset" about the topic. It's just silly and so unrealistic that we might as well discuss a hypothetical about what if Hank had stayed and played while riding a unicorn.

I like the Wade/LeBron analogy, wades. Spot on.

[GGGG]

I'm not the least bit "upset" about the topic. It's just silly and so unrealistic that we might as well discuss a hypothetical about what if Hank had stayed and played while riding a unicorn.

Depends.  Is it a unicorn that poops rainbows or candy?

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not the least bit "upset" about the topic. It's just silly and so unrealistic that we might as well discuss a hypothetical about what if Hank had stayed and played while riding a unicorn.

I like the Wade/LeBron analogy, wades. Spot on.

Post #2 on why (you think) the topic doesn't deserve any discussion.

There are literally scores of topics brought up on Scoop that I have no interest in and I think are a waste of time. So I don't waste my time on them. Simple, no?

[BM1090]

I loved watching Henry last year. I am thankful for his contributions.

That said, I already am having more fun watching this year's team than I did at any point last year

[real chili 83]

Depends.  Is it a unicorn that poops rainbows or candy?

Real Chili.

[MU82]

Post #2 on why (you think) the topic doesn't deserve any discussion.

There are literally scores of topics brought up on Scoop that I have no interest in and I think are a waste of time. So I don't waste my time on them. Simple, no?

Yeah ... but it's fun crapping on 'em sometimes.

Guilty as charged.

[slack00]

All we really know is that if Henry Ellenson stayed he would have earned less money playing basketball in the 2016-17 season than he is this year.  There are too many variables to make any argument as to whether this MU team would be better or worse, whether Henry would have a better NBA career, or whether Henry would make more money in his career.

[MUDPT]

Fortunately SI ran the projections, we would be pretty good.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/11/04/what-if-omari-spellman-villanova-allonzo-trier-arizona

[GB Warrior]

Fortunately SI ran the projections, we would be pretty good.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/11/04/what-if-omari-spellman-villanova-allonzo-trier-arizona

"THAT SETTLES IT"

-No Scooper ever

[Class71]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

If Henry had stayed, how much better would we be?  Would we be better?

Thoughts?

I don't think about history or what ifs.

[Lennys Tap]

Yeah ... but it's fun crapping on 'em sometimes.

LOL. Point taken.

[Lennys Tap]

Fortunately SI ran the projections, we would be pretty good.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/11/04/what-if-omari-spellman-villanova-allonzo-trier-arizona

Several Scoopers have cancelled their SI subscriptions for wasting their time on silly what ifs!

[MU82]

Several Scoopers have cancelled their SI subscriptions for wasting their time on silly what ifs!

Wait ... SI still exists?

[brandx]

It seems that we lost a first round pick and got better.  The reason appears to be we are a better shooting team with the new additions.

Thoughts?

Or maybe cuz we have 3 seniors in the starting lineup and last year we had 3 freshmen in the starting lineup much of the time.

[Lennys Tap]

Wait ... SI still exists?

Hangin' on by its fingernails (like most print media). Maybe clever, insightful and interesting articles like their "What if" college BB piece (the stats and insight/opinion were actually a nice departures from old news recaps and People type bios they now feature) will save them!

[Loose Cannon]

I don't think about history or what ifs.

Yep
 
The "What ifs"  about the Future events are interesting and might be graded and Might actually happen for all to see.  But "What ifs" regarding the Past may be nice to fill time, but no chance of them happening.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't understand the hate by so many people I've seen talk about "what if Al didn't get tossed in 74" "what if Chones didn't leave early" "what if DJ hadn't broken his foot" "what if we hadn't gotten those BS calls against Ohio state" he'll even "what if vander hadn't left early"

It seems like it's ok for everybody to say those what ifs but if it's "what if Henry had stayed" then people lose their sh*t about that imaginary concept?

[Benny B]

I can pretty much guarantee that whatever all y'all's answer to this question is, you're wrong because, you know, butterfly effect and all.

Leave it to Jesse to start a thread where everyone that answers is going to be wrong.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Things would have been going great until Wojo started his mind games and nailed the unicorn to the bench.  After that Henry had to ride around on Wally's shoulders and it just wasn't the same.

[MU82]

Things would have been going great until Wojo started hid mind games and nailed the unicorn to the bench.

Thank goodness the Loch Ness Monster has made up for the unicorn's lost scoring while getting fewer fouls. Uni kept getting called for spearing.

I'm cracking up about folks saying peeps are "upset" about this thread or are "haters." It's just a silly thread and some of us are having fun with its silliness. I'm seeing no hate or vitriol at all.

Now carry on and talk about situations that never were going to happen, if it floats your boat!

Although I'll mostly be returning to Scoop to chat about this year's actual team -- one that is very fun to watch and seems quite talented -- I'll check back into this thread occasionally to see how we would have fared had Wojo successfully recruited Bigfoot and Yoda.

[GGGG]

Things would have been going great until Wojo started hid mind games and nailed the unicorn to the bench.

[GoldenDieners32]

Last year the offense had to go around Ellenson and now that hes not here it can be anyone. Thats why i think we look better

[Lighthouse 84]

Yeah ... but it's fun crapping on 'em sometimes.

Guilty as charged.

My thought as well.  I was sorta expecting a poll by Heisy to go with the question.