JTIII Canned

[amen426]

The Big 12 is a good example. They are a great league, and all 10 teams were competitive this year, with the exception of Oklahoma - who just lost Buddy to the draft last year, and had a nice run in previous years.

Sure, they only had 6 tourny teams this year. But the only reason we got 7, was because 2 of our top 4 teams lost their PG. If Sumner and Watson don't go down, either Marquette or Providence don't make the tournament. And maybe both.

There doesn't need to be a doormat in the Big East for us to have success.

As far as Georgetown goes, if they are successful, the league is successful. They draw the most national attention out of any of our conference foes - and would give the league the most positive press if they were "back". Not to mention, people in Milwaukee will fill up the Bradley Center if Georgetown is a successful program.

You can't say the same for Providence or Seton Hall.

Look at baseball. Sure its nice when Pittsburgh goes deep into the playoffs. But when the Cubs win? Rob Manfred needs to find a new place to store his buckets of cash.

Georgetown isn't the Cubs... but their ceiling is as high as Villanova, and at their peak they are the best program in the Big East. Very few programs have 1-seed potential. But Georgetown does - and they need to make a solid hire this time around. No Patrick Ewing.

As for Depaul. I could give an eff about Depaul. But it would be nice to be like the Big 12 and not have a sub-200 RPI doormat every year. If we're a 10 team conference. It should be an extremely competitive 10-teams.

[brewcity77]

Yeah, beccause thats exactly what we've had the last three years.  A non-competitive league that isnb't very tough.

Making the argument that we are not currently challenged in the current makeup of the Big East has got to be the single most inane argument I've seen around here in years. Yet many here seem to be making just that argument.

Give me a break.  The Big East isn't competitive becuase DePaul has sucked for decades?  Or Georgetown is underwhelming? 

Have you all not noticed that the league already one of if not the toughest league in Division 1?

From the sounds of some, they think we're currently no better than the AAC, where one could legitimately make the argument that it would be nice if UConn and Memphis became powers again.

But in the current makeup of the Big East, there is absolutely ZERO need for DePaul or St. Johns or Georgetown to EVER become good again. The LEAGUE isn't going to get any more difficult--its just that someone else is going to have to be the doormat.

And every league needs its doormats, and I can't think of three better ones that St. Johns, Georgetown and DePaul. 

Just one question for all those that pine for DePaul or Georgetown to improve: Which team are you comfortable with taking their place as league doormats?

Literally no one is saying any of this. Even muguru isn't saying this, and he's kind of nuts. You could not be more off base if you tried.

[B. McBannerson]

Huh? Who said we don't have anyone competing with us? Who said the league is the MAC? Lol. Read the thread.

Buzz Williams?

[forgetful]

The Big 12 is a good example. They are a great league, and all 10 teams were competitive this year, with the exception of Oklahoma - who just lost Buddy to the draft last year, and had a nice run in previous years.

Sure, they only had 6 tourny teams this year. But the only reason we got 7, was because 2 of our top 4 teams lost their PG. If Sumner and Watson don't go down, either Marquette or Providence don't make the tournament. And maybe both.

There doesn't need to be a doormat in the Big East for us to have success.

As far as Georgetown goes, if they are successful, the league is successful. They draw the most national attention out of any of our conference foes - and would give the league the most positive press if they were "back". Not to mention, people in Milwaukee will fill up the Bradley Center if Georgetown is a successful program.

You can't say the same for Providence or Seton Hall.

Look at baseball. Sure its nice when Pittsburgh goes deep into the playoffs. But when the Cubs win? Rob Manfred needs to find a new place to store his buckets of cash.

Georgetown isn't the Cubs... but their ceiling is as high as Villanova, and at their peak they are the best program in the Big East. Very few programs have 1-seed potential. But Georgetown does - and they need to make a solid hire this time around. No Patrick Ewing.

As for Depaul. I could give an eff about Depaul. But it would be nice to be like the Big 12 and not have a sub-200 RPI doormat every year. If we're a 10 team conference. It should be an extremely competitive 10-teams.

Pretty sure Texas was a doormat in the B12 also this year.  Both them and Oklahoma were pretty dreadful.  The difference RPI wise between them and Depaul is that Texas/Oklahoma can get better buy games. 

[muguru]

Shaka to Georgetown wouldn't surprise me..in fact, it makes a ton of sense.

[The Equalizer]

Literally no one is saying any of this. Even muguru isn't saying this, and he's kind of nuts. You could not be more off base if you tried.

Essentially everyone who suggests that things would be better if only doormats in the Big East improved is saying this.

Someone else in this thread brought up Gonzgaga. Someone else brought up the AAC. People always bring up leagues like this as the examples of why we need DePaul or St. Johns or (in this case) Georgetown to be strong teams--completely ignoring that we don't send one or two teams to the tourney--this year we sent seven.

So WHY do we need DePaul or Georgetown to improve?

Lets say for argument's sake that both DePaul and Georgetown were just a bit better this year.  They manage to eke out 2 more wins each--each getting one more win over us and one over Xavier.  We're 8-10, Xavier is 7-11 and neither makes the tourney.

Is 5 NCAA teams better than 7?  Because that's the practical result of DePaul and Xavier improving.

Do you really think anyone is going to give the league credit because 4-14 DePaul or 7-11 Georgetown had a pretty good non-conference?

People constantly ignore the current state of the Big East and make statements about how much better the league would be "if only DePaul were better" or "if only Georgetown were dominant again."  Those are the people that couldn't be more wrong.

Not only is this a zero sum game, but there is a point at which increasing competitiveness harms the league.

[Galway Eagle]

Essentially everyone who suggests that things would be better if only doormats in the Big East improved is saying this.

Someone else in this thread brought up Gonzgaga. Someone else brought up the AAC. People always bring up leagues like this as the examples of why we need DePaul or St. Johns or (in this case) Georgetown to be strong teams--completely ignoring that we don't send one or two teams to the tourney--this year we sent seven.

So WHY do we need DePaul or Georgetown to improve?

Lets say for argument's sake that both DePaul and Georgetown were just a bit better this year.  They manage to eke out 2 more wins each--each getting one more win over us and one over Xavier.  We're 8-10, Xavier is 7-11 and neither makes the tourney.

Is 5 NCAA teams better than 7?  Because that's the practical result of DePaul and Xavier improving.

Do you really think anyone is going to give the league credit because 4-14 DePaul or 7-11 Georgetown had a pretty good non-conference?

People constantly ignore the current state of the Big East and make statements about how much better the league would be "if only DePaul were better" or "if only Georgetown were dominant again."  Those are the people that couldn't be more wrong.

Not only is this a zero sum game, but there is a point at which increasing competitiveness harms the league.

I think this argument about nonconference is stupid. Every penny counts and even if it means one of the lowest three teams making the NIT that's still more exposure and more credits that gets shared amongst the conference. Also playing one less RPI drag like DePaul may have bumped us a seed to 9 or made it so that a .500 BE team could get in.

Next you asked who would anyone rather have in the basement than Georgetown St Johns or DePaul, I would say just about anyone in the conference. That's the two largest schools in the biggest markets and the most recognizable brand. I'd personally say those three being good would be more beneficial than any combination of Providence Seton Hall Creighton Butler or Xavier.

[GGGG]

Essentially everyone who suggests that things would be better if only doormats in the Big East improved is saying this.

Someone else in this thread brought up Gonzgaga. Someone else brought up the AAC. People always bring up leagues like this as the examples of why we need DePaul or St. Johns or (in this case) Georgetown to be strong teams--completely ignoring that we don't send one or two teams to the tourney--this year we sent seven.

So WHY do we need DePaul or Georgetown to improve?

Lets say for argument's sake that both DePaul and Georgetown were just a bit better this year.  They manage to eke out 2 more wins each--each getting one more win over us and one over Xavier.  We're 8-10, Xavier is 7-11 and neither makes the tourney.

Is 5 NCAA teams better than 7?  Because that's the practical result of DePaul and Xavier improving.

Do you really think anyone is going to give the league credit because 4-14 DePaul or 7-11 Georgetown had a pretty good non-conference?

People constantly ignore the current state of the Big East and make statements about how much better the league would be "if only DePaul were better" or "if only Georgetown were dominant again."  Those are the people that couldn't be more wrong.

Not only is this a zero sum game, but there is a point at which increasing competitiveness harms the league.

Well I agree with you here.  The BE doesn't need any particular teams to be better.  They just need good teams to make the NCAAs and have deep runs.  It doesn't matter if it is DePaul, Georgetown or Seton Hall.  However I don't want this conference to turn into a one bid league, or a two or three bid league like the A10. 

[WarriorFan]

Time to change the subject.

Who - besides Patrick Ewing - are the GTown alums with college coaching experience?

[GGGG]

Time to change the subject.

Who - besides Patrick Ewing - are the GTown alums with college coaching experience?

Not many that I can tell.  There is one current college coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horace_Broadnax

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Time to change the subject.

Who - besides Patrick Ewing - are the GTown alums with college coaching experience?

I was just going to post that I heard Patrick Ewing is a candidate.  His son is currently an assistant for Georgetown.

[warriorchick]

I was just going to post that I heard Patrick Ewing is a candidate.  His son is currently an assistant for Georgetown.

I think that Georgetown needs to be careful to avoid the whole Al/Hank/Rick Lombardi/Starr/Gregg thing.

Just because a person was a part of the high point of the team's history doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best choice, or the best choice at that point in that coach's career.

[brewcity77]

Essentially everyone who suggests that things would be better if only doormats in the Big East improved is saying this.

No one is saying the Big East isn't challenging. No one is saying the Big East isn't competitive.

Personally, I don't care who is at the bottom as long as it isn't Marquette. I'd happily have two teams at the bottom that go 1-17 each year with their two wins coming head-to-head. That would allow the rest of the league an easier path to the tourney and give us a viable chance at 8 bids.

But no one is saying this isn't a good league because of Georgetown or DePaul or whomever.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think that Georgetown needs to be careful to avoid the whole Al/Hank/Rick Lombardi/Starr/Gregg thing.

Just because a person was a part of the high point of the team's history doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best choice, or the best choice at that point in that coach's career.

Curious - how often has the same coaching family continued the work of a legend at the same or higher level?  Maybe Roy Williams at UNC?  The facts show you need to find a new star coach -- the success really just gives you the cachet to recruit them.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The Big East needs to add St. Bonaventure and Fordham in order to increase yearly tournament bids.  If they say no, then add Canisius and Fairfield.

[Dawson Rental]

I still don't understand why all of you want these BE programs to not lose coaches, and be great all the time. Yeah yeah, prestige. So what? All a better Gtown, Better DePaul etc do is make it harder for MU to win conference championships etc. When this new BE was formed..I was hoping/wanting it to be a conference MU ran roughshod over every year..ala Memphis in CUSA not long ago.

I think all of us here would take being the Gonzaga of the BE. I sure as hell would.

Whatever makes it easier for MU to make the dance every year..I'm all for. If that means a lessor BE overall, so be it.

Great players want to play against the best.  A strong league helps recruiting and increases the chances that Marquette can actually do something when it get to the NCAA tournament.  Remember the Gonzaga tournament disappointments.  I sure as hell don't want that.

[Dawson Rental]

You need to clear that cache every once in awhile.   

I'm always happy to pick up any excess cache that anyone needs cleared out.

[Dawson Rental]

Absolutely not...no one is understanding what I'm saying..and maybe I didn't explain it clearly enough..I by no means want MU to be part of a one bid league(and the BE will NEVER be that), what i do want is for them to be the Gonzaga of the BE...run roughshod over it year after year after year, I want them to be dominant enough for that to occur. And If that means there are a few cellar dwellars every year, so be it..therer's always going to be anyway. The more REALLY good teams the conference has..the harder it would be for MU to run roughshod regularly...that's all I'm saying.

It's a lot like being a Packer fan, and wanting the rest of the NFC North to be good, or having success in the post season because "it makes the conference look better". Nonsense, I care about one team and one team only in the conference...the rest are enemies(unless they are playing UW).

Maybe you should have said that you wanted marquette to be the Villanova of the Big East.

[Eldon]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-georgetown-to-consider-patrick-ewing-for-head-coaching-position-062037157.html

[brewcity77]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-georgetown-to-consider-patrick-ewing-for-head-coaching-position-062037157.html

I really think Ewing would be a bad hire. I get that he has NBA pedigree and history with Georgetown, but he's already been pursuing NBA head coaching gigs, so you can't really feel he would be completely committed. Further, the problem GT has ran into the past year is they couldn't fire JT3 because of his daddy. So the answer is to bring in another guy that would be hard to fire because of his connection to Big John and the history of the program?

If they were Smart, they would go after someone else. Hurley, Miller, Kelsey, there are plenty of candidates out there. Pretty much anyone outside the family would be a better call.

[Eldon]

The Big 12 is a good example. They are a great league, and all 10 teams were competitive this year, with the exception of Oklahoma - who just lost Buddy to the draft last year, and had a nice run in previous years.

Sure, they only had 6 tourny teams this year. But the only reason we got 7, was because 2 of our top 4 teams lost their PG. If Sumner and Watson don't go down, either Marquette or Providence don't make the tournament. And maybe both.

There doesn't need to be a doormat in the Big East for us to have success.

As far as Georgetown goes, if they are successful, the league is successful. They draw the most national attention out of any of our conference foes - and would give the league the most positive press if they were "back". Not to mention, people in Milwaukee will fill up the Bradley Center if Georgetown is a successful program.

You can't say the same for Providence or Seton Hall.

Look at baseball. Sure its nice when Pittsburgh goes deep into the playoffs. But when the Cubs win? Rob Manfred needs to find a new place to store his buckets of cash.

Georgetown isn't the Cubs... but their ceiling is as high as Villanova, and at their peak they are the best program in the Big East. Very few programs have 1-seed potential. But Georgetown does - and they need to make a solid hire this time around. No Patrick Ewing.

As for Depaul. I could give an eff about Depaul. But it would be nice to be like the Big 12 and not have a sub-200 RPI doormat every year. If we're a 10 team conference. It should be an extremely competitive 10-teams.

IMO, this is it.  This is why Georgetown is special in a way that the other conference members are not.

I like having a couple of doormats, but I would hate for one of those to be Georgetown.  They are a historic powerhouse program.  The name and the face of the Big East, as it were.  I would prefer to keep DePaul as a doormat along with maybe a team like Providence or Seton Hall.

[warriorchick]

If they were Smart, they would go after someone else. Hurley, Miller, Kelsey, there are plenty of candidates out there. Pretty much anyone outside the family would be a better call.

I see what you did there with the caps.   

Shaka 2 GT

[MUMountin]

IMO, this is it.  This is why Georgetown is special in a way that the other conference members are not.

I like having a couple of doormats, but I would hate for one of those to be Georgetown.  They are a historic powerhouse program.  The name and the face of the Big East, as it were.  I would prefer to keep DePaul as a doormat along with maybe a team like Providence or Seton Hall.

Not to mention, I think Georgetown would be the easiest team for all of us to hate if they (1) had a good, tough coach and (2) were more successful. 

The one thing I feel the BE is currently lacking is a team and coach that is both successful but also vexing enough to fire up the teams/fan bases, a la Duke or Kentucky (or UConn/Louisville/Syracuse in the OBE).  Nova/Wright are just too likeable to fill that role, and no one else really has the capacity to take on that role.   

If Georgetown had a guy like Hurley or Crean who were good but also easy to dislike (if they aren't your coach), they are the team that could be the easiest to dislike and build some good rivalries across the conference. 

[wadesworld]

Not to mention, I think Georgetown would be the easiest team for all of us to hate if they (1) had a good, tough coach and (2) were more successful. 

The one thing I feel the BE is currently lacking is a team and coach that is both successful but also vexing enough to fire up the teams/fan bases, a la Duke or Kentucky (or UConn/Louisville/Syracuse in the OBE).  Nova/Wright are just too likeable to fill that role, and no one else really has the capacity to take on that role.   

If Georgetown had a guy like Hurley or Crean who were good but also easy to dislike (if they aren't your coach), they are the team that could be the easiest to dislike and build some good rivalries across the conference.

Hopefully Wojo and Marquette fills that void.

[brewcity77]

I see what you did there with the caps.   

Shaka 2 GT