3 at end of regulation

[mu_hilltopper]

... the thing that had me scratching my head though was nobody telling Sacar to miss that last Ft in 2OT intentionally....

YES.  I was screaming at the TV to miss that final FT.   If the staff didn't call for it, Anim should have figured that out himself.

[Mr. Nielsen]

I think the 2nd free-throw should have been missed. My fear by missing is a foul shot, is a foul being called for over the back. Over the back by Theo. Geee, who would be shock if that did happen.

[jsglow]

YES.  I was screaming at the TV to miss that final FT.   If the staff didn't call for it, Anim should have figured that out himself.

I think it's a really tough call topper.  With a one point lead could something happen (like a foul) that puts them on the line for a win?  With a 2 point lead you are giving them the set play possibility but the only way to lose is if they drain a 3 off a full court pass and shot.

The reality is that their guy did get a decent look at an 18 footer and made a mistake.  Oh yeah, and let's not diminish Koby's sound decision to stay with his man as has been discussed elsewhere.

I do think there's room for improvement in our instinctive 'end of game' management.  We've had numerous situations this year where management in the under 10 second situation could have been better.  But look, many teams struggle.  You all know that last year's Creighton game is so bad it was almost impossible.

[mu03eng]

YES.  I was screaming at the TV to miss that final FT.   If the staff didn't call for it, Anim should have figured that out himself.

Missing that FT is less "certain" than fouling up 3 with under 6 seconds in my book. I'm fine with the play either way. Besides Sacar's FT% is 66% so he might miss even when not trying. Not telling him to miss intentionally takes the "miss everything and give them the ball OoBs and only down 1" boner off the table as well. If Cain does the right thing and instead of trying to catch it just pushes wide or to the back court this isn't even a thing we're worried about.

[jsglow]

Missing that FT is less "certain" than fouling up 3 with under 6 seconds in my book. I'm fine with the play either way. Besides Sacar's FT% is 66% so he might miss even when not trying. Not telling him to miss intentionally takes the "miss everything and give them the ball OoBs and only down 1" boner off the table as well. If Cain does the right thing and instead of trying to catch it just pushes wide or to the back court this isn't even a thing we're worried about.

Remind me Eng, on that long throw did Jamal misplay it?  I only saw it in real time.

[CTWarrior]

Word.  You can see Sy's love taps.  He'll learn from this. Kid played a gutty game when he was asked to step up bigger than ever before in his basketball life.  Like how 'bout that second free throw when his teammates told him to relax and focus?

Both he and Theo buried second FTs after missing the first badly.  Both makes were big.

[MUDPT]

Remind me Eng, on that long throw did Jamal misplay it?  I only saw it in real time.

I thought he got shoved out of the way, passer interference if you will. Jamal should have thrown it to somebody at half court after their made 3 and hopefully you get a touch and the game is over, like Creighton should have done to us last year.

[jsglow]

Both he and Theo buried second FTs after missing the first badly.  Both makes were big.

That first one by Theo looked like one of the kids trying to win Qdoba! 

[jsglow]

I thought he got shoved out of the way, passer interference if you will. Jamal should have thrown it to somebody at half court after their made 3 and hopefully you get a touch and the game is over, like Creighton should have done to us last year.

Did Jamal get his hands on it?  Not remembering that.

[Windyplayer]

For aholes like u absolutely!! True character revealed at the end of regulation trashing the coach for everything that doesnt go your way like a bratty child.  This board has been unbearable for the last month with the ignorant attacks on our coach.

Are you on drugs?

Edit: I merely questioned fouling decisions among some others without specifically referencing the end of regulation and made damn sure to acknowledge that Wojo did in fact call for a foul at that juncture. Fact of the matter is, there were other moments in the game during which Wojo made questionable decisions. Lo and behold, we can civilly discuss those while being pumped about the W. At any rate, you need to cool down. Nobody here is impressed with your over-the-top vitriol - well, maybe some who have responded on this thread, a few of which I’m surprised to see, frankly.

[mu03eng]

Did Jamal get his hands on it?  Not remembering that.

MUDPT is right that Cain was shoved as he made a play on the ball but he defintely got his hands on it and was trying to catch it. It's a tough in the moment thing but the right play is to do some form of "knock it down" or push pass it into the back court. I get that catching stops the play and he gets fouled which effectively ends the game but it's a high risk strategy in a scrum like that.

[Dr. Blackheart]

MUDPT is right that Cain was shoved as he made a play on the ball but he defintely got his hands on it and was trying to catch it. It's a tough in the moment thing but the right play is to do some form of "knock it down" or push pass it into the back court. I get that catching stops the play and he gets fouled which effectively ends the game but it's a high risk strategy in a scrum like that.

See Whitehead, Jay.

[#UnleashSean]

Players not executing because of a high pressure situation 3/4 of the way through a season, one being  a 5th year senior, should fall back on who coached them.

[wadesworld]

Players not executing because of a high pressure situation 3/4 of the way through a season, one being  a 5th year senior, should fall back on who coached them.

Yeah.  Wojo sucks.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Players not executing because of a high pressure situation 3/4 of the way through a season, one being  a 5th year senior, should fall back on who coached them.

Please.  No one is perfect.  And the guy who made the biggest mistake was on the floor in an end game situation for the first time in his college career. 

[jsglow]

MUDPT is right that Cain was shoved as he made a play on the ball but he defintely got his hands on it and was trying to catch it. It's a tough in the moment thing but the right play is to do some form of "knock it down" or push pass it into the back court. I get that catching stops the play and he gets fouled which effectively ends the game but it's a high risk strategy in a scrum like that.

Okay, makes sense.

[MU82]

In an ideal world, up 1 with less than 3 seconds left, if I were coach I'd have told Sacar to miss the second FT, with Theo and whomever the other rebounder was being told to absolutely not foul (you put them there, with hands up, to make the rebound a little less easy).

It's very, very unlikely that X would have been able to scramble to get in position to take any kind of make-able 2-pointer. They almost surely would have had to take a desperation 3 -- which, if it miraculously goes in, would have beaten you whether you led by 1 or 2.

By making the FT, as others have said, you give them time to set up a play they have practiced for just such situations, and as it turns out they got a pretty good look from Jones, who simply froze and didn't take an open 18-footer. (Wow ... can you imagine a good college basketball player, who wasn't coached by Wojo, making the wrong decision? Crazy!) 

I said "in an ideal world" because we see that basketball players -- even well-coached ones -- don't always do everything they are told to do. Wojo could have told Theo 10,000 times not to foul on the rebound, but instincts kick in and he goes over the back. Or maybe Symir reaches in during the scramble and gets called for a cheap foul.

So while I think missing there is the best strategy, I'm not "Oh, how stupid to make it!" or anything. I'm happy (and a little relieved) to have won with it having played out just as it did.

And while we're talking late-game strategy ...

The one I still don't get is why did Cain try to foul up 4? Haven't seen or heard a reasonable explanation for that one. By fouling, you set up the possibility of a make, an intentional miss, a rebound, a pass out for an open 3, and an instant tie. Makes no sense to me.

BTW, I think discussing strategy like this doesn't have to be a sign that one is unhappy with the coach. There are hundreds of little decisions that go on in a basketball game, and I find it interesting to discuss them, especially since I started coaching basketball myself.

For example, Wojo again went to a zone after a time-out by the opponent -- a strategy that had worked and been praised in earlier games. This time, X shredded the zone for an easy basket. So does that mean the strategy was "bad" this time? No, not in my eyes.

[mu03eng]

Players not executing because of a high pressure situation 3/4 of the way through a season, one being  a 5th year senior, should fall back on who coached them.

This is a take, I'll give you that.

It's not exactly settled science that having Sacar miss the second FT is the right move. There is an argument to be made both ways so that takes Sacar off the table for "fault by coaching". Cain could have done something different but also has never been in that position nor has just about anybody on that roster AND he was shoved with no foul call so that's a bit of a stretch for "fault by coaching". Additionally, Koby was disciplined and stayed with his man instead of ball watching which prevented an easy lay-up to tie so I guess there is some "fault by coaching" there, but in a positive way. Plus Koby played both OTs with 4 fouls and was critical to the win but we wouldn't want to give any of that to the coaching staff so........

[Windyplayer]

Settled science? No.  Does the missed fee throw give us a better chance to win? Unequivocally yes.

[mu03eng]

And while we're talking late-game strategy ...

The one I still don't get is why did Cain try to foul up 4? Haven't seen or heard a reasonable explanation for that one. By fouling, you set up the possibility of a make, an intentional miss, a rebound, a pass out for an open 3, and an instant tie. Makes no sense to me.

The same scenario you are postulating can happen on a foul when up three play as well, except a two will tie and a 3 wins. That's the risk side of an equation. Is it sound strategy to foul up 4 with 7 seconds left, not sure but the logic for why you do it is very similar to up 3, until you are up by 6 there is risk that if the opponent makes 3s while you are shooting FTs they can close that gap in less than 10 seconds. The whole point of the strategy up 3 is to A) kill some clock and B) make the other team go 94 feet for a tying or winning shot as opposed to have the tying/winning shot from 30 feet.

Would I have done it, no....but then again I haven't played in 3 games in the last two weeks where fouling the other team while you have the lead/tied has become such a prominent part of the games. No way to prove it but if the fouling up 3 hadn't come up so frequently of late, but I'm 100% confident the fouling up 4 strategy doesn't show up.

[Aughnanure]

There are about 3 pages of teeth gnashing and tantrums as to how Coach Wojo did not instruct his players to foul.  They were instructed to foul as soon as the ball crossed mid court.  Symir screwed up and love tapped his guy a few times and clearly hesitated.  Just as bad, Sacar went under the screen when the only shot that mattered was a 3. In an incredibly high pressure situation in an atmosphere where the players can barely hear themselves think a 18 year old and a 5th year senior both screwed up.  You documented jackasses with your posts on pages approx. 7-10 are ignorant petulant brats.  Foul was called in the TO, wojo was screaming it, the kids failed to execute it.  Things are not always what they seem, Wojo coached his balls off tonight and our Warriors left it all on the floor.

This is correct. Jamal and Symir tried. Refs refused to give it to them or the foul wasn't hard enough, but it wasn't Wojo not calling for it.

[mu03eng]

Settled science? No.  Does the missed fee throw give us a better chance to win? Unequivocally yes.

Do you know what unequivocally means? That it's settled, there is no room for doubt, so.....

That aside, it's about probabilities and when you factor all the probabilities:
-likelihood that Sacar misses even if trying to make
-likelihood that Sacar tries to miss and misses everything
-likelihood of hitting a 3 off an inbounds play with 2.3 seconds left
-likelihood of hitting a 2 off an inbounds play with 2.3 seconds left
-likelihood of hitting any shot off a missed FT
-likelihood of a foul on the missed FT/scramble
-likelihood of a foul on the inbounds play

There just isn't a 100% clear cut answer to say you should definitely do something. Given everything, I agree with the not missing the FT intentionally. Is it open for debate, absolutely, but it is far from an unequivocal decision.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

About to lift off for Miami and I find myself agreeing with SandKnit on almost everything tonight.... Twilight Zone.  LOL.

If plane goes down, know that I died with Ian Ziereg on board from 90120...spoke to him last 15 minutes...my life is now complete.

Sharknado - He's got (or had) family in West Haven, CT and was occasionally spotted here.

[Pakuni]

I wanted Sacar to miss that second free throw, but I don't think that strategy is as obvious as some seem to think.
The biggest risk is that your team gets called for a soft foul on the rebound  - definitely not beyond the realm of possibility with the combination of Theo on the floor and that officiating crew last night. That puts Xavier on the line with a chance to at least tie and possibly win the game.
I can't remember the teams involved, but I believe this exact scenario played out in a game earlier this season.
You also run the risk of Sacar missing so badly that he fails to hit the rim at all, and Xavier gets the ball out of bounds anyhow only down 1 (and yes, even in that scenario, it's better to be up 2 than 1).

I still was calling for the miss, but there's logic behind letting him shoot to make and take your chances with that.

[Windyplayer]

Do you know what unequivocally means? That it's settled, there is no room for doubt, so.....

That aside, it's about probabilities and when you factor all the probabilities:
-likelihood that Sacar misses even if trying to make
-likelihood that Sacar tries to miss and misses everything
-likelihood of hitting a 3 off an inbounds play with 2.3 seconds left
-likelihood of hitting a 2 off an inbounds play with 2.3 seconds left
-likelihood of hitting any shot off a missed FT
-likelihood of a foul on the missed FT/scramble
-likelihood of a foul on the inbounds play

There just isn't a 100% clear cut answer to say you should definitely do something. Given everything, I agree with the not missing the FT intentionally. Is it open for debate, absolutely, but it is far from an unequivocal decision.

I said “unequivocally” with regard to a “better chance” to win. I firmly believe, hence the unequivocally, that we had a better chance to win by missing the FT. You are absolutely right, it’s about probabilities. We had a higher probability to win with a missed FT.