How our wins/losses are performing

[bilsu]

You keep saying this despite the fact that everyone keeps pointing out you are wrong.  Playing 200+ teams OOC   most certainly makes your resume better than 300+ teams.  And everyone plays these teams.  Your ideas about how the committee selects teams are about 30 years out of date right now.

Wisconsin plays as many cupcakes, but their top 5 is much tougher. The schedule only matters, if you are in the group battling for the last few spots. It is kind of like free throws do matter, unless you are in a close game. What you, I or anyone else cannot determine at this point is who will be the final teams that are competing against each other for the last spot. MU with this year's schedule would beat out MU with last year's schedule, but of course that cannot happen. Most likely, if we are in the last in/last out group we will be competing against teams in the power conferences and our strength of schedule is not likely to be significantly better than those teams, so it will come down to games against the top 50 and the so called eye test. Looking good late in the season in a top 50 loss can matter. One of MU's problems last year is they got stomped on by Villanova and Seton Hall and could not pass the eye test. Again this only matters for the final few spots. Late in the season you will see whose in whose out comparisons during halftimes of games where they compare resume's of unnamed teams and these rely heavily on the teams records against top 50 and top 100 teams along with number of bad losses. I cannot say this is actually what the selection committee relies on, but it is a good indicator.

[TheGym]

I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.

I think the point is the quality of cupcake, not whether we schedule them.  A 200+ team is definitely better for our RPI at the end of a season than a 300+ team.  I am of the opinion the RPI should be adjusted to eliminate from the calculation the bottom 3-5 wins in terms of RPI ranking.  Whether you beat a 200+ or 300+ team has no indication of whether you are a good team.

[Loose Cannon]

I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.

Where are the Mods when we need them?  How can Common sense posting be Permitted.

[real chili 83]

Wisconsin plays as many cupcakes, but their top 5 is much tougher. The schedule only matters, if you are in the group battling for the last few spots. It is kind of like free throws do matter, unless you are in a close game. What you, I or anyone else cannot determine at this point is who will be the final teams that are competing against each other for the last spot. MU with this year's schedule would beat out MU with last year's schedule, but of course that cannot happen. Most likely, if we are in the last in/last out group we will be competing against teams in the power conferences and our strength of schedule is not likely to be significantly better than those teams, so it will come down to games against the top 50 and the so called eye test. Looking good late in the season in a top 50 loss can matter. One of MU's problems last year is they got stomped on by Villanova and Seton Hall and could not pass the eye test. Again this only matters for the final few spots. Late in the season you will see whose in whose out comparisons during halftimes of games where they compare resume's of unnamed teams and these rely heavily on the teams records against top 50 and top 100 teams along with number of bad losses. I cannot say this is actually what the selection committee relies on, but it is a good indicator.

Nice of you to quote JB.

[Windyplayer]

MTSU 71, Vandy 48.

The Headline in the Nashville paper was 'Mighty MTSU crushes cowering Vanderbilt".

Good grief. Though to be fair, MTSU is 9-1 with a 15-point win over Ole Miss. KenPom has them at #73 (Vandy at #77)--granted, that's after the win.

Let's just hope Drew finds his footing in conference--not all that unusual.

[brewcity77]

I still believe it is who you beat that matters. Home games against teams 150+ are expected to be wins and only matter if they turn into bad losses. Generally, all road wins are good wins. That is why I argued our non conference schedule was not strong. It is tougher than last year, but I do not believe replacing 300+ teams with 200+ teams in the end makes a difference when the committee is reviewing your resume with an emphasis on your top 50 record. A loss against a top 50 team can be more favorable than a win against a 200+ team. We have Vandy, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia, Fresno St. and UW and they are not likely to be all top 50 teams. That does not compare favorably to UW playing Creighton, Georgetown, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Syracuse and at MU. The Big East schedule is a tough schedule, but we have no control over that.Wisconsin would be a top 50 win and we really need one of those at this point.

This is the college basketball equivalent of believing the world is flat.

I've belabored this with you what feels like a dozen times. It's just not worth it anymore. This is a blatantly, obviously false sentiment with no bearing in reality or acknowledgment of past history.

[RushmoreAcademy]

This is the college basketball equivalent of believing the world is flat.

I've belabored this with you what feels like a dozen times. It's just not worth it anymore. This is a blatantly, obviously false sentiment with no bearing in reality or acknowledgment of past history.

If we don't question mathematics, then who will?!?!

[Cooby Snacks]

Non-conference SOS will end up somewhere between 150-180. That's adequate. Total SOS will be top 50. Just have to win enough games.

[Windyplayer]

How dare you simplify this debate.

[vogue65]

How many years ahead do they schedule games?  Two?  How can you predict where a team will stand in out years?  Next year Wisconsin may look like Iowa, Marquette may look like Vilanova and Georgetown may look like ND.  So it then comes down to major conference teams, therefore, good enough is good enough.

[bilsu]

Non-conference SOS will end up somewhere between 150-180. That's adequate. Total SOS will be top 50. Just have to win enough games.

That is what I am saying, but no one seems to understand you have to beat some of the top teams on your schedule. Replacing 300+ wins with 200+ wins does not matter if you cannot win some top 50 games. This team could win 19 games without beating any top 50 teams and that will not get them a tournament bid no matter how strong the overall schedule is. Some of you think I am dense, but you guys are dense if you think we are going to get a bid without beating top 50 teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That is what I am saying, but no one seems to understand you have to beat some of the top teams on your schedule. Replacing 300+ wins with 200+ wins does not matter if you cannot win some top 50 games. This team could win 19 games without beating any top 50 teams and that will not get them a tournament bid no matter how strong the overall schedule is. Some of you think I am dense, but you guys are dense if you think we are going to get a bid without beating top 50 teams.

When has anyone said that you don't have to beat top 50 teams? What does that have anything to do with scheduling RPI 200 vs. 300 cupcakes?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Vanderbilt
Record: 6-6
Wins: Belmont, Norfolk State, Santa Clara, Tennessee State, High Point, Chatanooga
Losses: Marquette, Bucknell, Butler, Minnesota, @Middle Tennessee State, @Dayton

Howard:
Record: 1-8
Wins: American, 2 non-D1 opponents
Losses: @Michigan, @Marquette, @IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, @Georgetown, @Maryland, @George Washington, Jacksonville State

Michigan:
Record: 9-3
Wins: Howard, IUPUI, Marquette, SMU, Mount St. Mary's, Kennesaw State, Texas, Cental Arkansas, Maryland Eastern Shore
Losses: @South Carolina, Virginia Tech, @UCLA

Pittsburgh:
Record: 10-2
Wins: Eastern Michigan, Gardner-Webb, Marquette, Yale, Morehead State, @Maryland, Buffalo, Penn State, Rice, Omaha
Losses: SMU, Duquesne

IUPUI:
Record: 4-8
Wins: Howard, Eastern Michigan, @Ball State, 1 non-D1 opponent, @Southern Utah
Losses: @Eastern Kentucky, @Michigan, @Marquette, @SIUE, @Illinois State, @Illinois, @Miami (OH), @Northwestern

Houston Baptist:
Record: 1-5
Wins: 3 non-D1 Opponents, St. Peter's
Losses: @Texas Tech, @New Mexico, @Marquette, @Rice, @Indiana

Western Carolina:
Record: 3-7
Wins: 1 non-D1 Opponent, @Jackson State, @Appalachian State, High Point
Losses: @Miami (FL), North Carolina Central, @Marshall, @Ohio State, @Marquette, West Virginia, @UNC-Asheville

Georgia:
Record: 7-3
Wins: UNC-Asheville, George Washington, Gardner-Web, 1 non-D1 opponent, UL Lafayette, Charleston Southern, @Georgia Tech
Losses: @Clemson, Kansas, Marquette

Fresno State:
Record: 6-4
Wins: UTSA, Lamar, @Oregon State, 2 non-D1 opponents, @Drake, Cal Poly, @Pacific
Losses: Prairie View A&M, @Cal State Bakersfield, @Oregon

Wisconsin:
Record: 10-2
Wins: Central Arkansas, Chicago State, Tennessee, Georgetown, Prairie View A&M, Syracuse, Oklahoma, Idaho State, @Marquette, UWGB
Losses: @Creighton, North Carolina

St. Francis (PA):
Record: 2-8
Wins: 1 non-D1 opponent, Longwood, @American
Losses: @St. Bonaventure, @Duquesne, @NJIT, Binghamton, @Lehigh, Stony Brook, @Marquette, @Texas A&M

SIU Edwardsville:
Record: 4-8
Wins: @Hawaii, Florida Atlantic, IUPUI, @Grand Canyon
Losses: Texas State, Southern Illinois, @Arkansas State, @Indiana, Stetson, 1 non-D1 opponent, @Saint Louis, @UWGB, @Marquette

[Lennys Tap]

So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.

[MUBigDance]

So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.

I agree. Mild disappointment but a nonconf record we can live with. Pitt  win would make a 9-9 BE passible but now 10-8 or better needed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Vanderbilt
Record: 8-6
Non Con: 6-6
Conference: 2-0

Howard:
Record: 3-12
Non Con: 3-11
Conference: 0-1

Michigan:
Record: 11-4
Non Con: 10-3
Conference: 1-1

Pittsburgh:
Record: 12-3
Non Con: 11-2
Conference: 1-1

IUPUI:
Record: 7-8
Non Con: 6-8
Conference: 1-0

Houston Baptist:
Record: 5-7
Non Con: 4-6
Conference: 1-1

Western Carolina:
Record: 5-10
Non Con: 5-8
Conference: 0-2

Georgia:
Record: 9-5
Non Con: 8-4
Conference: 1-1

Fresno State:
Record: 10-5
Non Con: 8-4
Conference: 2-1

Wisconsin:
Record: 13-2
Non Con: 11-2
Conference: 2-0

St. Francis (PA):
Record: 4-9
Non Con: 3-8
Conference: 1-1

SIU Edwardsville:
Record: 5-10
Non Con: 5-9
Conference: 0-1

Howard has turned into a real bummer. Its not their fault. James Daniel, the leading scorer in D1 last season, is still out with an ankle injury. Not sure if he will come back at all. Howard better hopes he does otherwise that has grad transfer written all over it. Their second best player James Miller aggravated an injury that kept him out all of last season and he's missed half their games too.They had a good chance to win the MEAC this year but they can't seem to catch a break.

[vogue65]

So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.

The best home court advantage is a band box or being in a one horse town like Dayton, Blacksburg or Omaha.

[GoldenDieners32]

We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice

[CTWarrior]

We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice

That would make us 12-6 in the Big East.  I don't think we have to do quite that much to get an NCAA Bid.  I would like to find a way to take 2 of 4 at home against Xavier, Creighton, Villanova and Butler.  Do that and otherwise what you said and I think we are solidly in.

[KampusFoods]

We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice

We aren't going to, nor do we have to.

[Badgerhater]

We don't need this debate if MU would win games like Pitt and Seton Hall rather then lose them.

[Galway Eagle]

We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice

To get 3rd in the big east yes we need to do that

[Golden Avalanche]

We don't need this debate if MU would win games like Pitt and Seton Hall rather then lose them.

Doubly so if we would win games like Michigan and Wisconsin.

[bilsu]

Doubly so if we would win games like Michigan and Wisconsin.

That is what is wrong with the schedule debate, The schedule does not get you in the tournament. Winning games is what gets you in the tournament. Last year's schedule would of got us in the tournament, if we would of won 25(?) games. This year's schedule will take less wins, but the wins are tougher to come by. We were not good enough to win enough games last year. While it is true a tougher schedule requires less wins, it is still the wins that matter.

[KampusFoods]

That is what is wrong with the schedule debate, The schedule does not get you in the tournament. Winning games is what gets you in the tournament. Last year's schedule would of got us in the tournament, if we would of won 25(?) games. This year's schedule will take less wins, but the wins are tougher to come by. We were not good enough to win enough games last year. While it is true a tougher schedule requires less wins, it is still the wins that matter.

The worst, this is.