New Arena Site and Financing Plan to be Unveiled by January

[mu03eng]

I guess I was inefficient in explaining my issues with TIF districts and the jock tax, only one of which are the fact that they are deceptive.

Why does Northwestern Mutual get a TIF district and a "Financier" tax to pay for its new building? Why doesn't GE Healtchare get a TIF district and an "MRI" tax to pay for improvements to its facilities? Both companies have a huge positive economic impact on the city, state, and region. Both would LOVE it if they could capture all of the tax revenue generated by their business activity and use it to exclusively better their circumstances.

I was under the (obviously mistaken) impression that we pay taxes to improve the society generally. The Jock Tax and TIF districts are thinly-veiled corruption for well-connected developers.

Somebody noted that the benefit of the stadium is likely to be mostly localized around the area it is built, plus some spillover for people who can access the facility as fans (e.g. the 5-county area). Why spread the tax burden to people in Vilas County who may or may not even know that there is a professional basketball team in Milwaukee? The Miller Park sales tax worked and built a very nice stadium. The only reason that's not on the table is because it cost politicians their jobs and politicians number 1 priority is keeping their jobs.

Right, but you are completely ignoring the fact that its dead money either way.  And the jock tax and a TIF district should be treated differently....moving a team is a lot easier than moving a fortune 500 company.

The jock tax is dead money if a stadium isn't built, there is no scenario where a new stadium is not built and the Bucks are still here in 2019.  So we either use that dead money to retain the possibility of future revenue for the jock tax or we have to come up with new revenue when the Bucks leave.  Both scenarios change the revenue picture for the next 10 years, one provides a long term positive, one does not.

And your spread the tax burden over the state is a false argument for the jock tax.  The revenue is generated locally(Milwaukee) so why should Vilas county get to use the revenue for a team they may or may not be aware of?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

1.  Market forces are at work.  Seattle and St. Louis would kill for a team.  They'd probably foot the entire bill for a $600 million stadium.

2. The State if WI and Milwaukee are getting a great deal.  They only have to spend one quarter to one third of what other cities would willingly pay.

3. I'm not a huge believer in the ancillary economic benefit of sports teams.  Downtown restaurants would suffer but that's about it.  It's more of a quality of life thing.

[4everwarriors]

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what ya got 'til it's gone, aina?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Exactly.  If the Bucks are going to do this, they are going to do it right.  They aren't training at the Al.

But that doesn't mean they won't share a space with Marquette

[🏀]

But that doesn't mean they won't share a space with Marquette

Now why would MU want to move out of The Al?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Now why would MU want to move out of The Al?

Not saying they would. But I could see mutual benefits to both parties if they worked together on some things.

[🏀]

Not saying they would. But I could see mutual benefits to both parties if they worked together on some things.

Outside of sharing the arena, I don't see much of a benefit for either parties working together.

MUBB gets plenty of NBA exposure from the visiting teams anyway at The Al.

[WarhawkWarrior]

Albeit most undesirable, I believe it is destined for the vacant land north of the BC.  Unless the City sees some way to create new space for its Entertainment District (Panther Arena, Milw Theater and the Exposition Center) nothing else is imminent.  Tom Barrett needs to envision a two car garage for his street cars in the midst of the district.  

Other sites like the Grand Avenue and even the Journal building have the hopes of rejuvenating a dull area.  This could really be a win for downtown but I fear the City will take the path of least resistance.

[dgies9156]

Back in 1965, the Milwaukee Braves moved to Atlanta. Anyone over the age of 55 remembers the heartbreaking implication that had for Milwaukee and the community at large. The region fell in love with the Braves and the Braves rewarded Milwaukee with a World Series in 1957. But fans were fickle and the team did not sustain its championship success after 1960 and attendance was inadequate to make up for the huge radio and television market that existed at that time in Atlanta.

Milwaukee was very fortunate to have Bud Selig work to re-establish baseball in Milwaukee in 1971. That's a once-in-a-lifetime "reset" that's unlikely to happen here in a  basketball sense without a new arena.

Without the Brewers, Milwaukee would have been a backwater AAA and maybe a AA city when it comes to image (and, yes, cheeseheads, image matters in deciding where one intends to locate factors of production). Without the Bucks, the city probably is AAA rather than major league. As much as I HATE the idea of a new arena, it's a necessity if Milwaukee intends to be a major league city. Look no further than Nashville, which was barely a AA city 25 years ago. It's built a major league arena and attracted a successful NHL franchise. The city built an NFL football stadium, which attracted the Titans. They're even building a new, high-quality minor league baseball park.

Also, pay close attention to what Nashville did with the lower Broadway neighborhood, which is now one of the hottest entertainment districts in the south. Milwaukee has done NOTHING comparable to most of this (apart from Miller Park, which it did kicking and screaming).

With the Bucks gone, Milwaukee's quality of life will not be as strong. Corporations like NML, Baird and a number of money managers who make Milwaukee their corporate headquarters will have moderately greater amounts of difficulty recruting top talent, especially when compared to cities that have the NBA, MLB and high-quality entertainment.

Yes, I think the idea of replacing a very nice, gifted 25 year old arena is both bizzare and mistaken priorities. But I also think Milwaukee and Wisconsin has too much working against it in the "real" economic world to allow an asset like the Bucks to get away.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Albeit most undesirable, I believe it is destined for the vacant land north of the BC.  Unless the City sees some way to create new space for its Entertainment District (Panther Arena, Milw Theater and the Exposition Center) nothing else is imminent.  Tom Barrett needs to envision a two car garage for his street cars in the midst of the district.  

Other sites like the Grand Avenue and even the Journal building have the hopes of rejuvenating a dull area.  This could really be a win for downtown but I fear the City will take the path of least resistance.

Putting the new arena in Grand Ave would be great for Wisconsin Ave, but then you'd have a giant hole in the city where there is nothing. That's redistribution, not growth, we all need to keep that in mind.

If you want actual growth, you have to lay out a long term plan on how it's all going to work. Building a new arena and getting 5 new restaurants is not growth. We shouldn't be fooled into thinking that.

[mu03eng]

Albeit most undesirable, I believe it is destined for the vacant land north of the BC.  Unless the City sees some way to create new space for its Entertainment District (Panther Arena, Milw Theater and the Exposition Center) nothing else is imminent.  Tom Barrett needs to envision a two car garage for his street cars in the midst of the district.  

Other sites like the Grand Avenue and even the Journal building have the hopes of rejuvenating a dull area.  This could really be a win for downtown but I fear the City will take the path of least resistance.

The city doesn't necessarily have a say in this.  The city wants them to use the Park East corridor but for reasons discussed before that's a very expensive proposition.  If they can secure the Journal building the dominoes like Frank Gimbel will fall and there will be a new stadium in that area.  If that doesn't happen I think it more likely to be Grand Ave than Park East.

[Texas Western]

Putting the new arena in Grand Ave would be great for Wisconsin Ave, but then you'd have a giant hole in the city where there is nothing. That's redistribution, not growth, we all need to keep that in mind.

If you want actual growth, you have to lay out a long term plan on how it's all going to work. Building a new arena and getting 5 new restaurants is not growth. We shouldn't be fooled into thinking that.

My interest is strictly Marquette. I think what is best for us is Grand Avenue. Makes it practically on campus. For as long as I can remember the guys running Milwaukee have had no vision ( biggest example the lakefront) . Based in personal experience, I believe Lovell is the kind of guy that the new bucks owners would prefer to deal with.