Student denied 10K on halfcourt shot contest

[NersEllenson]

Not sure if anyone saw this...but it's pretty incredible...both the sequence, and the aftermath...watch video..50 seconds long...crazy.  Feel for the kid and his family.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/student-sank-miracuous-half-court-shot-likely-won-174225756--ncaab.html

[jesmu84]

sucks. but if movies have taught me anything, it's read the fine print closely.

[Coleman]

Not sure if anyone saw this...but it's pretty incredible...both the sequence, and the aftermath...watch video..50 seconds long...crazy.  Feel for the kid and his family.


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/student-sank-miracuous-half-court-shot-likely-won-174225756--ncaab.html

Give the kid the money. The positive publicity would be 10 grand well spent

[ChicosBailBonds]

Give the kid the money. The positive publicity would be 10 grand well spent

Always easy to spend someone else's money, isn't it.   


Hell, when I was in the department all of these promotions we ran were always insured because we didn't have that kind of disposable money to pay that kind of stuff. If a kid got lucky to win tuition, or a car, the insurance company ultimately paid out (a sponsor paid for the insurance). The exception was Major Goolsbys who always refused to pay the insurance and roll the dice.  Usually it worked for them, but if I recall, twice they had to pay a semester of tuition because the kid hit it.

[rocky_warrior]

Hell, when I was in the department all of these promotions we ran were always insured because we didn't have that kind of disposable money to pay that kind of stuff.

Sounds like they did buy insurance, and that's exactly WHY the kid has no chance to get paid. 

""He only gets one shot and he knew the rules going in," Matejkvovic said. "We bought an insurance policy, so our money is gone. It's not that we don't want the kid to win the money, but the rules are pretty clear and no insurance company is going to pay up on that."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sounds like they did buy insurance, and that's exactly WHY the kid has no chance to get paid. 

""He only gets one shot and he knew the rules going in," Matejkvovic said. "We bought an insurance policy, so our money is gone. It's not that we don't want the kid to win the money, but the rules are pretty clear and no insurance company is going to pay up on that."

Sounds right.  I remember we had to video every contest as well, to make sure the ball was released in time, foot wasn't over the line, etc, etc. 

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If the kid's 16, is he legally bound by a contract in PA?  I'd think not, unless 16 is the age of majority there.

[GGGG]

Give the kid the money. The positive publicity would be 10 grand well spent

Why?  Nobody is going to remember this by the end of the week.  You can spend $10k on "publicity" much better ways than this.

[jsglow]

Contract is very clear cut, even bolded. Not happening and shouldn't.  But it'll be a fun story at his 25th college reunion.

[MerrittsMustache]

If the kid's 16, is he legally bound by a contract in PA?  I'd think not, unless 16 is the age of majority there.

The kid is 18. His sister, who was mentioned in the story, is 16.

I'd be frustrated if I was the kid's dad but the rules are pretty clear-cut. If anything, the emcee is largely to blame as he should have known the rules and never let it get to the point of a second shot.

[Coleman]

Not saying he deserves the money. Or that insurance would cover it. And it wouldn't be someone else's money. Chicos, do you really have to play that card every single time, even when it really doesn't apply?

I'm saying if I were running the university, I would cut a check. Of the university's own money. Because it would be a smart PR investment. Shows they care about students, good pub, and avoids the negative pub that they are getting now. $10K is nothing in a university marketing budget.

You can't argue no one would know, if a Marquette message board is currently talking about it....

[MerrittsMustache]

Not saying he deserves the money. Or that insurance would cover it. And it wouldn't be someone else's money. Chicos, do you really have to play that card every single time, even when it really doesn't apply?

I'm saying if I were running the university, I would cut a check. Of the university's own money. Because it would be a smart PR investment. Shows they care about students, good pub, and avoids the negative pub that they are getting now. $10K is nothing in a university marketing budget.

You can't argue no one would know, if a Marquette message board is currently talking about it....

I honestly don't see much negative pub at all. Read the comments on this thread and on the Yahoo article. Nearly everyone sides with the school. The contract was very clear.

[Benny B]

I honestly don't see much negative pub at all. Read the comments on this thread and on the Yahoo article. Nearly everyone sides with the school. The contract was very clear.

At some point in time, we've all complained about our food or the service (even if it wasn't horrible) just to see if we could get a free dessert... when people take it a few levels past that - like seeing if you can get someone to make good on $10k in a contest you clearly lost - that's a problem.  Sure it MIGHT have some good PR, but it's an ugly precedent to set.  If you signed a contract and you lose, you lose.

[GGGG]

I'm saying if I were running the university, I would cut a check. Of the university's own money. Because it would be a smart PR investment. Shows they care about students, good pub, and avoids the negative pub that they are getting now. $10K is nothing in a university marketing budget.

As someone who runs a University's PR program, I can tell you two things. 

1. $10,000 is not an insignificant amount of discretionary money for marketing purposes at a smaller, public university. 

2. Cutting this kid a check would be a terribly inefficient way to use said $10,000.

[Badgerhater]

This scenario happened at MU about 15 years ago.  It was a big ESPN game against Louisville or Cincinnati (can't remember) and the place was packed.  The guy made a second half-court shot and everyone went nuts and MU won.  However, this kid knew ahead of time that he only had one shot so it wasn't a big deal afterward.

[NersEllenson]

As someone who runs a University's PR program, I can tell you two things. 

1. $10,000 is not an insignificant amount of discretionary money for marketing purposes at a smaller, public university. 

2. Cutting this kid a check would be a terribly inefficient way to use said $10,000.

Not sure I agree here - Couple things:  

1) How easy is it for West Chester University to get publicity??  I'd never heard of it before this event.  So, the kids "feat" and subsequent publicity it received due to how he sinks shot at Buzzer from halfcourt...yet by clear definition of the contract - it was a null/void make - it earned West Chester University the press.  Had they just awarded the money right away...there really isn't a story outside of West Chester University...so by not awarding it..it gained the national coverage.

2) Now, if it decides to go ahead and award the money - that move will once again gain national press and exposure...and the university comes out looking great...and how easy is it for West Chester University to get national press?

So, if the name of the game in PR is to get exposure, and to be perceived in a great light - this seems to be a perfect opportunity.  Not saying 10k isn't a lot for a small school...yet the reach/impressions/exposure value and associated goodwill from the gesture....to me would seem like a good investment...they could set up a great PR scene by not telling the kid/family they are going to award money...but call them into school admin...have news media invited for the event...get it all on camera...and watch the exposure and excitement of the moment for the kid and family...all over the internet...and MU SCOOP of course!

[Coleman]

Not sure I agree here - Couple things:  

1) How easy is it for West Chester University to get publicity??  I'd never heard of it before this event.  So, the kids "feat" and subsequent publicity it received due to how he sinks shot at Buzzer from halfcourt...yet by clear definition of the contract - it was a null/void make - it earned West Chester University the press.  Had they just awarded the money right away...there really isn't a story outside of West Chester University...so by not awarding it..it gained the national coverage.

2) Now, if it decides to go ahead and award the money - that move will once again gain national press and exposure...and the university comes out looking great...and how easy is it for West Chester University to get national press?

So, if the name of the game in PR is to get exposure, and to be perceived in a great light - this seems to be a perfect opportunity.  Not saying 10k isn't a lot for a small school...yet the reach/impressions/exposure value and associated goodwill from the gesture....to me would seem like a good investment...they could set up a great PR scene by not telling the kid/family they are going to award money...but call them into school admin...have news media invited for the event...get it all on camera...and watch the exposure and excitement of the moment for the kid and family...all over the internet...and MU SCOOP of course!

+1. Nailed it. This is a no brainer. Cut a check.

[GGGG]

You are making an assumption here Ners...

...that West Chester's goal for its PR program is to get "national press."  It isn't.  You don't build your brand  on one-shot opportunities that are feel good stories that appear on the ESPN ticker for a day or so.  Simply put, they really don't care if you don't know about them.  You live 2,000 miles away.  You aren't an alum...a student...a faculty/staff member....a prospective student...an influential community member, etc.  Those are the groups that you build your marketing/PR programs around - and that is where you invest that $10,000.

IMO, if you do what you suggest, two weeks later no one will remember it.  How have you used that $10,000 to build your brand?

[mu03eng]

Not sure I agree here - Couple things:  

1) How easy is it for West Chester University to get publicity??  I'd never heard of it before this event.  So, the kids "feat" and subsequent publicity it received due to how he sinks shot at Buzzer from halfcourt...yet by clear definition of the contract - it was a null/void make - it earned West Chester University the press.  Had they just awarded the money right away...there really isn't a story outside of West Chester University...so by not awarding it..it gained the national coverage.

2) Now, if it decides to go ahead and award the money - that move will once again gain national press and exposure...and the university comes out looking great...and how easy is it for West Chester University to get national press?

So, if the name of the game in PR is to get exposure, and to be perceived in a great light - this seems to be a perfect opportunity.  Not saying 10k isn't a lot for a small school...yet the reach/impressions/exposure value and associated goodwill from the gesture....to me would seem like a good investment...they could set up a great PR scene by not telling the kid/family they are going to award money...but call them into school admin...have news media invited for the event...get it all on camera...and watch the exposure and excitement of the moment for the kid and family...all over the internet...and MU SCOOP of course!

In the grand scheme of awareness, this is comparable to your existence on the planet compared to the overall age of the universe...virtually nothing.  If you polled college age students a week from now, the number that remember this will be infinitesimally small.

Besides its in the rules, no upside.

Does anyone remember when a student hit a half court shot at an MU game like 6 years ago but his foot was across the line so he didn't get it?  If you did prior to me mentioning it or googling it, congrats but you are the rare breed.

[NersEllenson]

You are making an assumption here Ners...

...that West Chester's goal for its PR program is to get "national press."  It isn't.  You don't build your brand  on one-shot opportunities that are feel good stories that appear on the ESPN ticker for a day or so.  Simply put, they really don't care if you don't know about them.  You live 2,000 miles away.  You aren't an alum...a student...a faculty/staff member....a prospective student...an influential community member, etc.  Those are the groups that you build your marketing/PR programs around - and that is where you invest that $10,000.

IMO, if you do what you suggest, two weeks later no one will remember it.  How have you used that $10,000 to build your brand?

I'd agree that perhaps West Chester's goal isn't National Press - yet it can hold up its handling of the situation as a university (if it were to award the money) that cares about its students, tries to meet its students halfway - perhaps you give the kid 5k.

In my view 10k doesn't buy you a whole lot these days in the way of media exposure...to me it is a perfect opportunity to make a splash, create goodwill, and drive discussion locally and perhaps nationally for a few weeks.  A basic advertisement in the local newspapers, a few TV spots, etc., none can compete with the talk value of this act/opportunity.  OF course P.R., is different than advertising in that it isn't "paid for," it is earned...donating perhaps 5k would straddle both sides of the advertising/PR game for the university..

[Coleman]

If this story gets a few thousand people to Google the university to see where it is, what are its strongest programs, etc., then it is probably worth it.

[GGGG]

If this story gets a few thousand people to Google the university to see where it is, what are its strongest programs, etc., then it is probably worth it.

Why?  What good does that do?  I Google stuff everyday....and forget about it a week later.

[GGGG]

I'd agree that perhaps West Chester's goal isn't National Press - yet it can hold up its handling of the situation as a university (if it were to award the money) that cares about its students, tries to meet its students halfway - perhaps you give the kid 5k.

In my view 10k doesn't buy you a whole lot these days in the way of media exposure...to me it is a perfect opportunity to make a splash, create goodwill, and drive discussion locally and perhaps nationally for a few weeks.  A basic advertisement in the local newspapers, a few TV spots, etc., none can compete with the talk value of this act/opportunity.  OF course P.R., is different than advertising in that it isn't "paid for," it is earned...donating perhaps 5k would straddle both sides of the advertising/PR game for the university..

One more thing and then I am just going to let it go..."media exposure" may not be their goal either.  The time and effort I spend on media exposure is dinky compared to what it was a decade ago. 

[Coleman]

Why?  What good does that do?  I Google stuff everyday....and forget about it a week later.

You can't attend a school if you don't know it exists.

[Coleman]

If you know anything about viral marketing, this is exactly the type of situations where it is done.

[GGGG]

You can't attend a school if you don't know it exists.

But again, I can come up with many, many better ways to make students *who are likely to attend West Chester* know of its existence with $10,000.

[GGGG]

If you know anything about viral marketing, this is exactly the type of situations where it is done.

Apparently I know more about it than you do, because this is pretty much the opposite of viral marketing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The kid is 18. His sister, who was mentioned in the story, is 16.

I'd be frustrated if I was the kid's dad but the rules are pretty clear-cut. If anything, the emcee is largely to blame as he should have known the rules and never let it get to the point of a second shot.

My bad, read the last paragraph wrong.

[wardle2wade]

This scenario happened at MU about 15 years ago.  It was a big ESPN game against Louisville or Cincinnati (can't remember) and the place was packed.  The guy made a second half-court shot and everyone went nuts and MU won.  However, this kid knew ahead of time that he only had one shot so it wasn't a big deal afterward.

Yep, that MU game was the first thing I thought of when I head this.  It was the MU-Wake Forest game during the 2003 final four campaign.  It was a rare February non-conference Sunday game and was well-attended.  The student hustled after making the layup, ft, and three, and managed to get off a second half-courter which went in.  The Bradley went nuts, and everyone assumed he won until word spread the next few days.  I believe the prize was a car.

I found the box score although it says it was played at the US Cellular, it was at the Bradley of course.  http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230400269

[CreightonWarrior]

Yep, that MU game was the first thing I thought of when I head this.  It was the MU-Wake Forest game during the 2003 final four campaign.  It was a rare February non-conference Sunday game and was well-attended.  The student hustled after making the layup, ft, and three, and managed to get off a second half-courter which went in.  The Bradley went nuts, and everyone assumed he won until word spread the next few days.  I believe the prize was a car.

I found the box score although it says it was played at the US Cellular, it was at the Bradley of course.  http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=230400269

The worst part of that Marquette game?
Officials: Jim Burr, Mike Kitts, Mike Wood

[Coleman]

Apparently I know more about it than you do, because this is pretty much the opposite of viral marketing.

I'm listening

[wardle2wade]

Haha I saw that about Burr too.  Even in 11-year old box scores, he still commands our attention.  

[GGGG]

I'm listening

Viral marketing is generally a low-cost alternative where you actually use your customers to pass along your marketing message to people they know...by sharing on Facebook, retweeting on Twitter, etc.

What Ners suggested, having a press conference to announce that they are going to give him the money, isn't viral.

AND I JUST REALIZED...that's not what you were commenting about.  That this is the type of situation that *could* go viral.  My bad.  I don't agree with you, but I misunderstood what you were saying.

[Coleman]

Viral marketing is generally a low-cost alternative where you actually use your customers to pass along your marketing message to people they know...by sharing on Facebook, retweeting on Twitter, etc.

What Ners suggested, having a press conference to announce that they are going to give him the money, isn't viral.

AND I JUST REALIZED...that's not what you were commenting about.  That this is the type of situation that *could* go viral.  My bad.  I don't agree with you, but I misunderstood what you were saying.

Right. By this point, the opportunity is lost. I was saying if they cut the kid a check, in that moment, the attention it is getting now would have been that sort of publicity.

[jesmu84]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/pizza-hut-offers-west-chester-u-half-court-shot-bro-10k-and-free-pizza-for-a-year/

[ChicosBailBonds]

As someone who runs a University's PR program, I can tell you two things. 

1. $10,000 is not an insignificant amount of discretionary money for marketing purposes at a smaller, public university. 

2. Cutting this kid a check would be a terribly inefficient way to use said $10,000.

You stole my thunder

[Benny B]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/super-page/pizza-hut-offers-west-chester-u-half-court-shot-bro-10k-and-free-pizza-for-a-year/

The most Pizza Hut has accomplished with this move, economically, is that they have probably won over a small contingent of people in PA with lasting results.  The rest of us won't care a couple weeks from now (as has been previously mentioned).  Do something good, and it's quickly forgotten.  But do something stupid, and you can be immortalized into someone's memory.

The stupidity here is the negative consequence of emboldening this kid's father, i.e. encouraging others in the future to complain until you get something that doesn't belong to you.  That's not the lesson I want my kids to grow up with; so adios, Pizza Hut... I'm sure you won't care about losing me as a customer, especially since I probably should have abandoned you a long time ago.  Good luck with your bottom line once you've converted your entire customer base to whiny, entitled freeloaders.

Imagine if this kid's last name were Maymon.  Would you still give him the $10,000 after his dad made a ruckus?

[GGGG]

West Chester taking down the video is really, really weak. 

[Coleman]

The most Pizza Hut has accomplished with this move, economically, is that they have probably won over a small contingent of people in PA with lasting results.  The rest of us won't care a couple weeks from now (as has been previously mentioned).  Do something good, and it's quickly forgotten.  But do something stupid, and you can be immortalized into someone's memory.

The stupidity here is the negative consequence of emboldening this kid's father, i.e. encouraging others in the future to complain until you get something that doesn't belong to you.  That's not the lesson I want my kids to grow up with; so adios, Pizza Hut... I'm sure you won't care about losing me as a customer, especially since I probably should have abandoned you a long time ago.  Good luck with your bottom line once you've converted your entire customer base to whiny, entitled freeloaders.

Imagine if this kid's last name were Maymon.  Would you still give him the $10,000 after his dad made a ruckus?

Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Now he has ten grand and unlimited 'Za. Can't hold that against him.

[MU82]

The thing that jumped out at me in the story was the final quote from the kid's father:

"It would help, that's all I'm going to say. We've struggled the last five years. My wife and I both work full time and we're struggling like everyone else to make ends meet. Financially it would be a huge help."

Wow. Really? Both parents work full time? That is such a rarity. Hell, give them $50,000!

[Benny B]

Squeeky wheel gets the grease. Now he has ten grand and unlimited 'Za. Can't hold that against him.

When my wheel squeaks, I grease it myself.  I don't go crying a tale of woe in the town square because I can't figure out how to work a can of WD-40.