They're going to let people kill golden eagles?

[chapman]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/04/9952873-feds-propose-allowing-wind-farm-developer-to-kill-golden-eagles

[beercanindasky]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/04/9952873-feds-propose-allowing-wind-farm-developer-to-kill-golden-eagles

[Bocephys]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/04/9952873-feds-propose-allowing-wind-farm-developer-to-kill-golden-eagles

I think Vanderbilt can help them formulate a game plan for that.

[Blackhat]

With all of the Golden Eagles in Wisconsin and near the Marquette Campus that should impact us immensely. 

[Ari Gold]

unnatural carnal knowledgeing wind farms are useless crap anyways
we should be tearing those things down

[Hards Alumni]

fracking wind farms are useless crap anyways
we should be tearing those things down

Hi, I'm ignorance.

Oh, I'm sorry, we've already met.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Such a substantive response from Hards. 

[ringout]

Such a substantive response from Hards. 

Hards should go live along Hwy 41 on the way to FDL.  I'm sure he'd love wind farms then.

[Hards Alumni]

Hards should go live along Hwy 41 on the way to FDL.  I'm sure he'd love wind farms then.

There are plenty more closer to home, and in far greater quantity.

I don't see the downside at all.

[GGGG]

Ya...what's wrong with wind farms?  Cheap.  Renewable.  Clean.

[MUMac]

Ya...what's wrong with wind farms?  Cheap.  Renewable.  Clean.

Except when it's in your back yard.   

[Hards Alumni]

Except when it's in your back yard.   

If I lived in the country, my home would have wind power.  Since I live in the city and there are plenty of regulations regarding such things I can't put up my own.

I guess the argument is that they are 'eye sores'?

[ATL MU Warrior]

If I lived in the country, my home would have wind power.  Since I live in the city and there are plenty of regulations regarding such things I can't put up my own.

I guess the argument is that they are 'eye sores'?

I guess none of the anti-wind folks have ever seen an oil refinery?  Not exactly picturesque.  Oh, but those are located somewhere else so I guess they are ok.

[MUMac]

If I lived in the country, my home would have wind power.  Since I live in the city and there are plenty of regulations regarding such things I can't put up my own.

I guess the argument is that they are 'eye sores'?

Not my argument.  Admittedly, playing off on the "NIMBY" response on this topic I have seen so many times.  I work with people involved in the wind power industry.  Sometimes setting up a wind farm can get irritatingly difficult because some people want it, but just don't want to see or hear it.

I would also consider some type of renewable energy for my home, if I have it built.  I would not retrofit an existing home, at this time.  Unfortunately, the cost/return/benefit makes that decision for me.

[MUMac]

I guess none of the anti-wind folks have ever seen an oil refinery?  Not exactly picturesque.  Oh, but those are located somewhere else so I guess they are ok.

As I stated in a response to Hards, it is not solely "anti-wind folks" who have that response ...

[ringout]

There are plenty more closer to home, and in far greater quantity.

I don't see the downside at all.

No downside?  Then everyone who wants windfarms should be required to live within a mile of a windfarm.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Windfarms are Cuisinarts for migrating birds, particularly Raptors. scientifically studied fact

[jficke13]

If they were actually cheap, we would source more energy from them. They are only "cheap" because of government subsidies and "1st world problems" type guilt people want to buy an indulgence for.

[shiloh26]

Sometimes setting up a wind farm can get irritatingly difficult because some people want it, but just don't want to see or hear it.

No downside?  Then everyone who wants windfarms should be required to live within a mile of a windfarm.

See: http://dailyreporter.com/2011/04/22/poll-finds-strong-support-for-wind-energy-in-wis/

Poll from April of 2011 showing that 77% of Wisconsin residents would like to see more wind energy in the state... but then when wind farms are actually proposed, they face some vehement opposition.  (See Brown County a few years ago, Manitowoc changed its zoning laws several years ago to specifically ban wind farms, the examples are endless, even just in this state).  It is definitely a NIMBY subject. 

[Hoopaloop]

Hi, I'm ignorance.

Oh, I'm sorry, we've already met.

This is why liberals rub me the wrong way.  They have a belief and if you don't agree with them, they call you stupid, ignorant, or worse.  Just have a conversation.

Wind farms have a downside, as do electric cars, hybrids, etc.  I see GM is recalling 8000 Chevy Volts now because of issues.  What do you do with the battery disposal?  All the extra electricity  needed comes from burning more coal, more hydro, etc.

For wind farms, they have pros and cons, but they are not a slam dunk case.  If it's not windy, do you realize they turbines have to be powered by outside sources and actually produce a carbon footprint?  If it's too windy, they shut them down.  They do a wonderful job of killing birds in some parts of the country and some scientists have recently presented research that the wind farms are causing medical problems in some people.

From an efficiency perspective, they are horrible unless you have a huge subsidy from good old Uncle Sam.  They can't stand on their own and be profitable to build and run no different than electric cars can.  The subsidies are what drives them.  Also some heavily cooked up numbers that some journalists worth their salt have started to publish.  In the UK recently, it was shows that wind farms are generating 22% of what the actual megawatts they were supposed to yield and pitched to the citizenry.  This has led much of the industry to counter that the wind farms were built in the wrong places.  Part of that is NIMBY, which isn't surprising.   Much like trains and light rail.  They are loved by one portion of society and over promised to the hilt in terms of passenger ridership, cost to build and overall benefits, but that never stops the lying to get those boondoggles built as saviors of the planet.

[ringout]

See: http://dailyreporter.com/2011/04/22/poll-finds-strong-support-for-wind-energy-in-wis/

Poll from April of 2011 showing that 77% of Wisconsin residents would like to see more wind energy in the state... but then when wind farms are actually proposed, they face some vehement opposition.  (See Brown County a few years ago, Manitowoc changed its zoning laws several years ago to specifically ban wind farms, the examples are endless, even just in this state).  It is definitely a NIMBY subject. 

77% of residents favoring something does not make it the right thing to do.  My question remains.  Would you choose to live in a wind farm?

[ringout]

This is why liberals rub me the wrong way.  They have a belief and if you don't agree with them, they call you stupid, ignorant, or worse.  Just have a conversation.

Wind farms have a downside, as do electric cars, hybrids, etc.  I see GM is recalling 8000 Chevy Volts now because of issues.  What do you do with the battery disposal?  All the extra electricity  needed comes from burning more coal, more hydro, etc.

For wind farms, they have pros and cons, but they are not a slam dunk case.  If it's not windy, do you realize they turbines have to be powered by outside sources and actually produce a carbon footprint?  If it's too windy, they shut them down.  They do a wonderful job of killing birds in some parts of the country and some scientists have recently presented research that the wind farms are causing medical problems in some people.

From an efficiency perspective, they are horrible unless you have a huge subsidy from good old Uncle Sam.  They can't stand on their own and be profitable to build and run no different than electric cars can.  The subsidies are what drives them.  Also some heavily cooked up numbers that some journalists worth their salt have started to publish.  In the UK recently, it was shows that wind farms are generating 22% of what the actual megawatts they were supposed to yield and pitched to the citizenry.  This has led much of the industry to counter that the wind farms were built in the wrong places.  Part of that is NIMBY, which isn't surprising.   Much like trains and light rail.  They are loved by one portion of society and over promised to the hilt in terms of passenger ridership, cost to build and overall benefits, but that never stops the lying to get those boondoggles built as saviors of the planet.

This is a great summary.  Too bad the proponents of windfarms will not give it any credence.

[Hards Alumni]

This is a great summary.  Too bad the proponents of windfarms will not give it any credence.

Actually, its a lot of conservative think tank drivel, but you, being a conservative would think that way.

I'm not sure what Chevy Volt has to do with wind farms, but hey if he wants to make a point that's fine I guess.

I don't see why it is a bad thing that wind farms are subsidized by the US government.  Most conventional forms of energy are highly subsidized as well.  Its a moot argument. 

My guess is "Hoopaloop" is taking his notes from my old friend who had a lengthy debate about global warming with me in PMs.

Personally, I'm done with this conversation since it has probably creeped into the 'no politics' area.

[ATL MU Warrior]

77% of residents favoring something does not make it the right thing to do.  My question remains.  Would you choose to live in a wind farm?

Where would you rather live?  Next to an oil refinery or next to a windfarm? 

Of course "neither" is the easy answer but if you had to pick one which would it be?

[Hards Alumni]

They do a wonderful job of killing birds in some parts of the country and some scientists have recently presented research that the wind farms are causing medical problems in some people.

What do you define as a 'wonderful' job?

They kill less than cars, windows, or even power lines.  Orders of magnitude less.  I mean, there are stupid arguments, and then there is this argument.