MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: downtown85 on December 21, 2009, 04:28:53 AM
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I've moved on but this is interesting and makes some sense.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=5329674
If true, it is a really sad situation for Jeronne.
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Can Buzz legally kick a kid off the team because his father and AAU coach are jerks? I hate to see J-May held accountable for his dad's actions, especially if he was enjoying MU and working hard. I would have had the old man ticketed, removed his tickets, etc. but why kick J-May off the team if he wants to be here?
Looking back on things, I saw Tim Maymon sitting in front of me at an early season MU game...I sit on the opposite side of the benches. Isn't it typical for parents to sit behind the bench?
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If that's true, HUGE stones on Cottingham. HUGE.
Although I'm wondering how Tim Maymon can just wander into a building that's locked on Sunday mornings, and into either A) the arena, which is also locked when not in game use, or B) the practice gym, which means gaining access to the locked lower level.
Looking back on things, I saw Tim Maymon sitting in front of me at an early season MU game...I sit on the opposite side of the benches. Isn't it typical for parents to sit behind the bench?
Maybe it's a case of he let the university know too late that he'd be attending the game, so he got different reserved tickets.
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Story has half truths. But it misses who quit and the demands for a release. JM could have severed ties with dad, but that wasn't going to happen.
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Can Buzz legally kick a kid off the team because his father and AAU coach are jerks?
*IF* this story is true, Buzz definitely can kick a kid off the team; however I doubt he could revoke the scholarship without just cause. In this case the Maymons got their scholarship release so JM could transfer which also lets MU off the hook.
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If Jeronne really did call Buzz crying, telling him that he wanted to stay, why didn't he let him stay under certain conditions?
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Sad for all parties, but mostly for the kid.
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I don't believe it.
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I have my doubts about this story. It may have some facts, but it is clearly an editorial piece. If you're presenting all of the facts, you can let them speak for themselves, no need to analyze the story.
The story is likely not 100% right or wrong... probably somewhere in the middle. Nevertheless, when something that is not written by a professional journalist starts with "I got this from a connected source," "I have a friend who's on the inside," or something to that effect, chances are, it's probably more wrong than right.
We probably will never know all of the facts (particularly, what was said to Steve C. in his office), but I think if J-May was kicked off the team by Buzz or Steve, then Tim Maymon would have been crying about such an "injustice" from Day 1.
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I don't believe it.
I believe it.
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Assuming every word of the story is true, the between the lines read is in that meeting, Buzz probably gave TM an ultimatum along the lines of " I love your kid, but you are becoming a distraction and a detriment. If you can't back off and stop embarrassing your son and the program, we are going to have stop your association with this program" Like most stories, I am sure there are bits of truth in there, but I don't think it is the whole story.
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Guys...if it was 100% BS, John Dodds, who works for the BB program, would have removed it from his site.
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Guys...if it was 100% BS, John Dodds, who works for the BB program, would have removed it from his site.
PRN is 100% correct.
Unless...
Dodds is looking to spin it in the program's favor, and is leaving the story up as a smoke screen...doubt it.
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Parts are true, parts are pure speculation.
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i dont think things are that simple. No way he is kicked off the team for his fathers actions.
Now if this was the straw that broke the camels back i could beleive it. If there had been instances in the past where it got to the point that tim and Jerrone had been sat down and told this is the last straw and more BS and Jerrone will be aske dto leave. I would then beleive that. HArd to tell from this stroy if that was the case. This story makes it seems as if this weekend blow up was the cause of everything and jerrone was blindsided.
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If Jeronne really did call Buzz crying, telling him that he wanted to stay, why didn't he let him stay under certain conditions?
Do you think Tim would have gone along with those conditions? I don't think so.
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PRN is 100% correct.
Unless...
Dodds is looking to spin it in the program's favor, and is leaving the story up as a smoke screen...doubt it.
I still don't believe it.
I believe its very possible the incident with TM did occur, however, I don't think Buzz would make Jerrone pay for "the sins of the father".
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i dont think things are that simple. No way he is kicked off the team for his fathers actions.
Now if this was the straw that broke the camels back i could beleive it. If there had been instances in the past where it got to the point that tim and Jerrone had been sat down and told this is the last straw and more BS and Jerrone will be aske dto leave. I would then beleive that. HArd to tell from this stroy if that was the case. This story makes it seems as if this weekend blow up was the cause of everything and jerrone was blindsided.
my guess is that since Tim didn't announce where J-May was transferring to right away, that this wasn't Tim or Jeronne's decision.
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The "true story" post does not jibe with what J. Butler said at last Thursday's presser. Either the players were indeed really shocked, or nobody on the team speaks to Jimmy.
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The "true story" post does not jibe with what J. Butler said at last Thursday's presser. Either the players were indeed really shocked, or nobody on the team speaks to Jimmy.
There's another option there, one that is incredibly common. The players and coaches were coached by the PR team about what to say and how to say it.
Look back at the players that have left the team in recent years. If you do enough digging, you'll find a pretty large difference in the story told to the media and the stories that those involved were telling off the record.
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my guess is that since Tim didn't announce where J-May was transferring to right away, that this wasn't Tim or Jeronne's decision.
I'm willing to bet that they (Tim) never thought Buzz/Cottingham/MU would call their bluff. I'm sure they (Tim) thought Jeronne would be moved to the three, and the rest of the line-up be shuffled to accomodate them.
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There's another option there, one that is incredibly common. The players and coaches were coached by the PR team about what to say and how to say it.
Look back at the players that have left the team in recent years. If you do enough digging, you'll find a pretty large difference in the story told to the media and the stories that those involved were telling off the record.
And frankly, part of becoming a true "team" is taking that "what happens here, stays here" approach.
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There's another option there, one that is incredibly common. The players and coaches were coached by the PR team about what to say and how to say it.
Look back at the players that have left the team in recent years. If you do enough digging, you'll find a pretty large difference in the story told to the media and the stories that those involved were telling off the record.
Was just about to post the same thing. There is always more to the story than what is talked about in press conferences. I would imagine the Sports Information Department coached all of our guys up on what to say, and what not to say.
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There's another option there, one that is incredibly common. The players and coaches were coached by the PR team about what to say and how to say it.
Look back at the players that have left the team in recent years. If you do enough digging, you'll find a pretty large difference in the story told to the media and the stories that those involved were telling off the record.
Happens all the time in business. At my previous employer, we were fed verbatims we were expected to recite to specific questions, and for any other questions we were taught how to use the verbatims to answer those too.
To avoid any slander/libel accusations from TM, I'm sure the MU legal team helped put together specific talking points for all the players to learn.
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs.
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I wonder if all this is mitigated if we beat the Badgers? Were the Maymons so embarrassed in their hometown that the frustration spilled over into other areas? And then they just lost it?
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The "true story" post does not jibe with what J. Butler said at last Thursday's presser.
Actually while I don't believe the entire "true story" most of it does jibe with what went down. There have been a lot of rumors on the net but the one that has appeared consistent is that Tim at one point in time, did have a meeting with Buzz, voicing his displeasure of how Buzz was using Jeronne. Now did it go down exactly as the so called "true story" I dont know.
Also, I do believe that when Tim said he didn't know anything about Jeronne leaving, that that could probably be 100% true. Could he have been shocked that MU was forcing his hand? It makes sense reading the story.
Next thing is, MU put out a presser very quickly and early in the process. They didn't wait around on wishing him the best and hoping things work out for him.
Next, Jimmy says Jeronne looked and acted the same from beginning to end. He was shocked that Jeronne was quitting because he showed no indication of leaving. Sure sounds like it was not Jeronne's idea to leave.
Next, Buzz waits until Thursday to make formal comments. My guess is to possibly square away the logistics of what they were doing.
Finally, in listening to how Buzz responds, he truly has strong feelings for Jeronne and it is obvious he does not have a beef with Jeronne and kind of implies that Tim is the one who is the problem in all of this.
It is interesting.
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs.
FWIW, and probably not much, the posted story is very similar to what I was told by someone who works in the athletic department. In fact, I bet there's 10-12 people who regularly post here that have heard most of these details. There is truth to it.
Details may be murky for some but we can all agree that someone was blindsided when they shouldn't normally be in this situation.
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on. Why would he be fine, if he knew Jeronne was leaving. Sure looks like MU might have forced his hand on the matter.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up Again, based on that, sure looks like Jeronne was happy and didn't want to leave.
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs. This is the part of the story I don't believe 100% but there have been a lot of consistent rumors that Tim has voiced his displeasure to Buzz about Jeronne's role on the team. And my guess is, he did find a way to get into the building one way or another on Sunday and that might have been the last straw to an ultimatum
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs.
Unless the doors to the arena were open. They could have been in there or he can gain access. We both know those doors are always open.
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Unless the doors to the arena were open. They could have been in there or he can gain access. We both know those doors are always open.
The doors to the arena are swipe entry.
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Yowza. Reading the story there appears to be some editorializing, but it would seem more truth than fiction. Not good. You have to feel for Jeronne reading that story.
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Parts are true, parts are pure speculation.
From what I've seen on this board, BMA seems to have a lot of credible, inside information. So, we should take his above comment and take it for what it is worth. One point I'd like to have 100% clarified is: Did Jerrone actually call the coaching staff, players, etc. to try to get back on the team/Is it 100% true that Jerrone did not want to quit/leave MU?
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The doors to the arena are swipe entry.
Shenanigans! I always could open those doors and go underneath.
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From what I've seen on this board, BMA seems to have a lot of credible, inside information. So, we should take his above comment and take it for what it is worth. One point I'd like to have 100% clarified is: Did Jerrone actually call the coaching staff, players, etc. to try to get back on the team/Is it 100% true that Jerrone did not want to quit/leave MU?
100% clarification is impossible unless you get to talk to Buzz.
Maymon did call, but I've heard conflicting things about what the call was about from people who would know. Some say he called trying to get back on the team, some say he called everyone to apologize for his father's behavior.
I should clarify that when I say part was speculation, I'm talking about the part where Buzz kicked him off the team. This story is floating around different parts with a couple different endings, ranging from Buzz kicking him off the team to Tim dragging Jeronne out of practice with him.
There are some close to the team who are adamant that Jeronne was not kicked off the team and that he did not leave because he wanted to leave.
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U really think Buzz Williams would go along with kicking a talented, by all accounts, nice kid off a team because his father is a jackass? I highly doubt that. And if this is true, I feel nothing but sympathy for J may, and nothing but disgust for the basketball staff. Your grown men, handle this guy. Too kick a kid off a team because they couldn't handle his father is embarrassing. Thats something that goes on at CYO leagues, not here.
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There are some close to the team who are adamant that Jeronne was not kicked off the team and that he did not leave because he wanted to leave.
Well, that leaves it at the feet of one person...just as we suspected. I mean, it really isn't relevant if he quit or was kicked off, and the true story will likely never be known. Obviously it was a conflict that escalated throughout the season and came to a boil last Sunday.
But I think it is safe to say that if Jeronne didn't have Tim Maymon as a father, he'd still be on the team. And that makes me feel bad for not only the team, but mostly for Jeronne.
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U really think Buzz Williams would go along with kicking a talented, by all accounts, nice kid off a team because his father is a jackass? I highly doubt that. And if this is true, I feel nothing but sympathy for J may, and nothing but disgust for the basketball staff. Your grown men, handle this guy. Too kick a kid off a team because they couldn't handle his father is embarrassing. Thats something that goes on at CYO leagues, not here.
If you have a father that is berating athletic department officials, barging into practice, demanding to meet with the coach and/or AD at a moments notice, you may have no choice if it is affecting team chemistry.
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I dont know if these have been posted but these just confirm TM is crazy.
These are from his facebook.
Someone: "Okay, Tim, what am I going to do with all the Marquette tickets I bought????? GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!"
TM: "i dont know , maybe still go to the games or sell them? they did him wrong and he wanted out..they did not want him to shoot the ball,so he asked to tranfer..that was it nothing else..
Another post had someone predicting the badgers 76, mu 70 and he wrote back, "who can stop my son not u or any of ur badgers*****"
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Well, that leaves it at the feet of one person...just as we suspected.
Tom Crean! ;D
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100% clarification is impossible unless you get to talk to Buzz.
Maymon did call, but I've heard conflicting things about what the call was about from people who would know. Some say he called trying to get back on the team, some say he called everyone to apologize for his father's behavior.
I should clarify that when I say part was speculation, I'm talking about the part where Buzz kicked him off the team. This story is floating around different parts with a couple different endings, ranging from Buzz kicking him off the team to Tim dragging Jeronne out of practice with him.
There are some close to the team who are adamant that Jeronne was not kicked off the team and that he did not leave because he wanted to leave.
Well, if he wasn't kicked off and he didn't WANT off....sounds like either a) Tim Maymon removed him personally from the team b) Tim Maymon gave MU an ultimatum and MU called his bluff or c) MU gave Tim Maymon an "or else" and he chose "or else".
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There's probably some truth to that story, but I don't believe for a second that Buzz kicked him off the team. Buzz's job is to win basketball games. With an already undersized team that lacks depth, there's just no way that he'd boot a talented, big-bodied player who's seeing decent minutes. It's just not plausible.
What I would believe is that Tim told Buzz that he'd take Jeronne elsewhere if he didn't use him how Tim believed he should be used, followed by Buzz telling him to do exactly that. Reversing that, I could see Buzz telling Tim something to the effect of, "If you want Jeronne to play more minutes at the 3, send him somewhere else" and Tim deciding to pull the plug. Either of these scenarios could be churned through the rumor mill and come out as "Buzz kicked him off the team."
(Just to reiterate, these are just my own thoughts based on the "true" story previously posted)
However it went down, I truly believe that it was Tim, not Jeronne, who made the final decision. In Tim's mind, his son wasn't being utilized correctly, wasn't playing enough minutes, and the coach wasn't giving in to his demands. Strikes one, two and three!
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c) MU gave Tim Maymon an "or else" and he chose "or else".
I hate love it when they choose "or else."
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs.
I can usually agree with most of the stuff you post, but I completely disagree here.
First point. Just because TM was cheering on MU doesn't really mean anything... why would he openly cheer against his son's team... Even if JM was about to leave the team?
Secondly. As other posters have said, the players were coached what to say... for legal reasons, and the obvious reasons.
Who is to say that TM didn't get the number or have a card to gain access to the arena? It isn't unreasonable to think that both are possible.
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Who is to say that TM didn't get the number or have a card to gain access to the arena? It isn't unreasonable to think that both are possible.
Generally speaking, parents of athletes either come in with their child or are escorted in by staff.
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Another post had someone predicting the badgers 76, mu 70 and he wrote back, "who can stop my son not u or any of ur badgers*****"
Tim Maymon can
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100% clarification is impossible unless you get to talk to Buzz.
Maymon did call, but I've heard conflicting things about what the call was about from people who would know. Some say he called trying to get back on the team, some say he called everyone to apologize for his father's behavior.
I should clarify that when I say part was speculation, I'm talking about the part where Buzz kicked him off the team. This story is floating around different parts with a couple different endings, ranging from Buzz kicking him off the team to Tim dragging Jeronne out of practice with him.
There are some close to the team who are adamant that Jeronne was not kicked off the team and that he did not leave because he wanted to leave.
Thanks for the clarification BMA - I think we can all take this RED area above as the ultimate truth..and realize this was 100% on Tim Maymon. I posted earlier that while his Dad maybe overbearing, etc., he is entitled to his opinion..and if he felt it was best for J-May to work on his craft elsewhere - so be it..and JMay going along with his father's counsel, could be him being a respectful son..and also hard for an 18-year old to completely turn his back on his father. Think about that for a minute. I really hope wherever JMay goes, he goes far away from his Dad, is it would probably be best for his development and chances for ultimate success. Sad story, anyway you look at it.
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I don't think it is unreasonable that Tim could find a way in. Yes, techincally he couldn't gain access but maybe he was let in the first part and came in when a coach was leaving or followed someone in. Who knows, he could've been acting completely rational and someone let him in to watch and wait for practice to end before he actually snapped.
Outsiders guess:
Tim is kicked out and told never to come back. Tim tells Jeronne to come with him with and Buzz said he would be kicked off the team if he left with his dad. Thus he was kicked off and quit at the same time.
Otherwise to kick him off the team because of his dad only doesn't make sense. Just ban his dad. Only other explanation would be Buzz would be looking to get an additional Schollie since it didnt work out. But that seems too much of a stretch.
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Tim Maymon can
Good one!
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There are enough people at the AL with the code including managers that would let an insisting Tim M into the carded area so it likely could be done. Knock on the locker room door and manager or trainer answer etc and u are essentially in.
If Buzz did essentially kick him off the team and would not let him back despite his calls then it reflects very badly on the him and the program including the AD who supported it. If he set ground rules for Tim and he violated then it is a different story.
In any event if the player was willing to separate himself from his Dad and wanted back and Buzz would not do that, then it reflects badly on the coach. I think if this is true and Buzz would not take him back then this will be a larger ongoing distraction for the players (who know the truth) than having to deal with Tim who could and should be dealt with strategically to have him back down.
If this is true and now Maymon is pissed and the like then this will have some degree of impact on what is on VanderBlue's mind and could be the beginning of a bad run for the program.
I hope this is not true and assuming it is not, that the rumor's are squelched before the entire program is tainted by it.
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There are several doubts I have with the story:
- When this all happened several posters said Tim Maymon seemed fine at the UW game supporting MU and cheering them on.
- Like the previous poster said Jimmy said he just had a normal conversation with Jerrone and they didn't bring it up
- To get to the lower level of the AL you need either a card to swipe in or know the code on the doors. I'm guessing Tim Maymon knows neither of these. While a staff member could have let him in the building to meet with the AD, Tim couldn't simply run into practice from upstairs.
I'm looking into the ticket office issue right now, I have people that work in that department. Will let you know if it is True in the next day or two.
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How it exactly went down that day is kind of irrelevant. What is clear that it’s not one person making the decision to cut ties with Maymon. Outside looking in, it appears this has been going on for a while and that this was a decision made by everyone from the AD, head coach, assistant coaches, etc. Hell Dick Strong probably had a say in it after having to sit near that d-bag Tim Maymon at the games. Whether he was warned or not is the bigger question.
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How it exactly went down that day is kind of irrelevant. What is clear that it’s not one person making the decision to cut ties with Maymon. Outside looking in, it appears this has been going on for a while and that this was a decision made by everyone from the AD, head coach, assistant coaches, etc. Hell Dick Strong probably had a say in it after having to sit near that d-bag Tim Maymon at the games. Whether he was warned or not is the bigger question.
Just speculating, but if Buzz was careful enough to involve Cottingham, et al. I'm sure he had previous, documented, conversations with TM regarding distractions and what that would mean to Jeronne.
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FWIW, I just got back from the Al, and the arena doors were wide open. I saw no less than 10 people go in/out of the arena without a question, mainly because nobody was at the front desk.
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Guys...if it was 100% BS, John Dodds, who works for the BB program, would have removed it from his site.
Depends if it was on a blog or not....that's what determines if it is removed. ;D
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If you have a father that is berating athletic department officials, barging into practice, demanding to meet with the coach and/or AD at a moments notice, you may have no choice if it is affecting team chemistry.
The sad thing is that this should not have been a surprise to anyone. Go on this very message board a year ago and look at the comments from people saying this was going to be a problem.
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The sad thing is that this should not have been a surprise to anyone. Go on this very message board a year ago and look at the comments from people saying this was going to be a problem.
True but there were also alarmists after Matthews signed his LOI and it turned out to be bunk. I think it ended up being a "boy who cried wolf" type of thing. Only this time, the wolf showed up.
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The sad thing is that this should not have been a surprise to anyone. Go on this very message board a year ago and look at the comments from people saying this was going to be a problem.
In fairness Chicos, what has been disclosed today goes far beyond any meddling that MAY HAVE been anticipated by your omnipotence.
I agree that it was well known that Buzz was in for parental interference from TM, but if you tell me that you knew it would go this far, I call BS on you.
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True but there were also alarmists after Matthews signed his LOI and it turned out to be bunk. I think it ended up being a "boy who cried wolf" type of thing. Only this time, the wolf showed up.
I honestly don't remember the Matthews thing at all. Maymon was very very visible all the time, constantly being a problem. I don't think the same could ever be said about Wes' mom. Perhaps I just don't remember it that well, but the rep with TM was through the roof.
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FWIW, I just got back from the Al, and the arena doors were wide open. I saw no less than 10 people go in/out of the arena without a question, mainly because nobody was at the front desk.
You also went to the Al on a weekday when all of the employees are there. The doors are open because business is going on upstairs. On a Sunday everything is locked.
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In fairness Chicos, what has been disclosed today goes far beyond any meddling that MAY HAVE been anticipated by your omnipotence.
I agree that it was well known that Buzz was in for parental interference from TM, but if you tell me that you knew it would go this far, I call BS on you.
First off, I can't read the story anyway since it's on Dodds site. So how far it went, I don't know based on whatever is written over there.
No one is clamiing to be "omnipotent" or to say it would turn out like it has....but what many people did say was this guy is a complete nutjob and there was SIGNIFICANT reason why Crean and Ryan didn't go after him. How do the two biggest programs and coaches in the state not go after the the Wisconsin basketball player of the year without knowing something? Common sense.
I think a lot of people just wanted to look the other way and pretend it wasn't going to come up or wasn't a big deal.
Unfortunately, that was naive thinking.
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How do the two biggest programs and coaches in the state not go after the the Wisconsin basketball player of the year without knowing something? Common sense.
Has this been confirmed somewhere? Not to say that it isn't true, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Tom and Bo completely dismissed the thought of a scholarship offer to J-May from day 1.
It would be more plausible to me that an offer was made by one or both coaches with the understanding that there would be certain conditions on Tim Maymon's access and involvement and TM, unhappy with said conditions, told them to go "blank" themselves. Maybe TM didn't want J-May to be at MU or UW to begin with and only opened up J-May to MU when he saw a new coach that he thought he would be able to push around.
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Has this been confirmed somewhere? Not to say that it isn't true, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Tom and Bo completely dismissed the thought of a scholarship offer to J-May from day 1.
It would be more plausible to me that an offer was made by one or both coaches with the understanding that there would be certain conditions on Tim Maymon's access and involvement and TM, unhappy with said conditions, told them to go "blank" themselves. Maybe TM didn't want J-May to be at MU or UW to begin with and only opened up J-May to MU when he saw a new coach that he thought he would be able to push around.
You never dismiss anything in the murky business of recruiting but both Crean and Ryan had been around long enough before Maymon matured as a player to know what would be involved in his recruitment. Both clearly decided against an active recruitment.
Also remember that both were riding pretty successful horses at that time. They weren't down in the dumps and they didn't need to build quickly so they were still in a position to decide how to proceed based on hindrance rather then sheer desire to win.
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Has this been confirmed somewhere? Not to say that it isn't true, but I find it extremely hard to believe that Tom and Bo completely dismissed the thought of a scholarship offer to J-May from day 1.
It would be more plausible to me that an offer was made by one or both coaches with the understanding that there would be certain conditions on Tim Maymon's access and involvement and TM, unhappy with said conditions, told them to go "blank" themselves. Maybe TM didn't want J-May to be at MU or UW to begin with and only opened up J-May to MU when he saw a new coach that he thought he would be able to push around.
The other thing to think about from MU's perspective is that Crean was most likely going to land Jamil Wilson until he got the Indiana job. In Crean's mind here probably wasn't a need to go after Maymon.
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FWIW, I just got back from the Al, and the arena doors were wide open. I saw no less than 10 people go in/out of the arena without a question, mainly because nobody was at the front desk.
Mid afternoon on Monday is different than Sunday morning.
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I have no information what happened at MU. However I can tell you that another school was asked to funnel money to an aau program for access to Maymon and another player. To my knowledge it is not illegal. The school in question refused. Maymon committed to MU shortly after this occurred.
There was so many things wrong with this entire situation from the outset. Maymon should have went to school a million miles away from his dad and aau coach. Buzz should have recognized that as well.
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I have no information what happened at MU. However I can tell you that another school was asked to funnel money to an aau program for access to Maymon and another player. To my knowledge it is not illegal. The school in question refused. Maymon committed to MU shortly after this occurred.
There was so many things wrong with this entire situation from the outset. Maymon should have went to school a million miles away from his dad and aau coach. Buzz should have recognized that as well.
Absolutely agree on the miles away part. Also agree on Buzz should have known, but in a way I think he did but was hoping it would work out. Risk and reward. Buzz needed to land a big, in-state recruit to show his recruiting prowess. He obviously felt the risk was worth it. This is why Crean and Ryan weren't going there, they had been established already and didn't need the headache. Tough spot for Buzz, but the outcome is not surprising.
You nailed this one Denny, back in May of 2008.
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Link at the start of this thread just went down the memory hole. Perhaps he is coming back. :o
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Link at the start of this thread just went down the memory hole. Perhaps he is coming back. :o
It went something like this:
Got this from a really connected guy (Aurianthal was is AAU coach, FYI)
So Tim Maymon shows up at the Kohl Center on Saturday night and goes over to the Marquette will call desk to get his tickets. The woman at the desk (who works for the Marquette ticket office) hands him his four tickets. Tim says there must be a mistake because he said he need a total of 20 tickets and demands his 16 other tickets. The woman tells him that even if she had 20 extra tickets, which she doesn't, she couldn't give him 20 tickets because NCAA Regulations only allow for 4 tickets per player.
Tim says: "Listen here, you ____ ____ (worst you can say to a woman). I don't give a sh!! about NCAA regulations. Just give me my f-ing tickets."
The woman is basically in tears, so one of the other people at the table calms everyone down, says he'll see what he can do, and ushers Tim and family off into the game (with him bitching all the way).
We all saw or heard about Tim's antics during the game. Evidently, he was talked to by an assistant coach at some point and told very politely that he needed to tone it down. He didn't like hearing that and basically ignored it. Obviously, Marquette officials behind the bench were not pleased.
On to Sunday morning… Marquette had a practice at the Al McGuire center. As it's beginning, the doors fly open and Tim Maymon and Hennessey Auriantal come walking in. Tim is swearing up a storm again about his son playing the wrong position, not getting the ball, etc. Buzz calms him down and ushers him out and tells him that they'll talk after practice. The two go off to either the AD or assistant AD's office (who has already been briefed on the antics of Saturday night) and tear that guy a new a-hole for an hour. Finally, the AD has enough and walks the 2 back to practice. He pulls Buzz over in front of the team and says "Buzz, this has gone on long enough. If it's OK with you, I'm throwing these guys out of the building and I don't want to see them ever again." Buzz says fine and they tell Tim and Hennessey if they don't leave immediately, campus police will be called and they'll be arrested for trespassing. Buzz tells Jeronne to shower-up and head home… he's off the team.
On Sunday night into Monday, Jeronne calls everyone from Buzz, to the assistants, to his teammates and is basically in tears, saying that he doesn't want to leave the team. Buzz stands firm and basically spends the day Monday meeting with Marquette legal council and sports info to make sure that everything is in order. They put out the press release Monday night.
Gotta hold Buzz accountable for appeasing the Maymons for as long as he has...sucking minutes out of players who play a foot higher than J-May just to either A) get the delusional dad to settle down, or B) prove his first big signee was indeed, actually a stud, or C) prove he wasn't naive to believe things would change. Strikes 1, 2, and 3. Lesson learned.
I guess all the "J-May is too unselfish for his own good" talk from Buzz meant Jeronne was not standing up to his dad.? Who knows on that count... But, 9 games and out crushes any either notion: the unselfish thing or standing up to pappy.
Anyway...Fulce comes out and plays well aganst NF (and, granted it's but one game) and it's like Buzz has to justify why he had buried this springy, team-first cat who has been, let's face it...easier to screw to this point. So Buzz backpedals by insulting the kid (who he, of course, loves). "Joe don't know the difference between and zone or man to man," as well as the 'ain't I quotable' thing about Joe's shot selection; the colorful "ten toes to the rim" bit. (Is Stockhole syndrome the goal here, or what?)
Yes, there's context, of course but....
I do agree, however, that J-May would have been valuable over the next few years if he could've accepted his 19 to 23 minutes, albeit having to do some of the same things that made him quit in the first place. (Talking about the real reasons.) As it is... the team will be way better off not having to deal with the collateral Make Room for Daddy crap.
That said, Buzz's comments to the press have been well crafted and repackaged from the high road, you know, up where Fulce lives...and I'm sure he's looking out for J-May here, but it makes me wonder where the truth lies when, as Buzz so often says "I will always tell you the truth." I suppose some willful ommission here and there is the go-to out-clause here and can be dumped into the the "best interest of the kid" bucket...I mean, there's always ways out of these things...
Ultimately, I think Buzz is learning, and I'm nevertheless glad we have him finding talent and, for the most part, getting the "12 sons" to buy in.
Onward and upward.
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Well done PRN, I was just looking for it in my cache, but it must be on my home computer.
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The "true story" post does not jibe with what J. Butler said at last Thursday's presser. Either the players were indeed really shocked, or nobody on the team speaks to Jimmy.
One does not speak "to" The Jimmy. One respectfully requests permission to speak in the presence of The Jimmy.
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There's another option there, one that is incredibly common. The players and coaches were coached by the PR team about what to say and how to say it.
Look back at the players that have left the team in recent years. If you do enough digging, you'll find a pretty large difference in the story told to the media and the stories that those involved were telling off the record.
Jimmy Butler's comments at the presser weren't simply a spin of facts. They blatantly contradicted what was posted in the original story (that PRN transcribed above).
I've been thinking about this... it's one thing for the PR dept. to do some coaching of players, but it's another thing to get them to out and out lie to the media (or perpetuate a fabrication). What happens if the media catches the student-athlete in a lie or something that has been (or is later) proven to be false? Now you have a player who now has to defend himself in front of the media, likely unprepared to do so, and probably unable to smooth-talk his way out of the situation.
So I ask, what is worse... the "secrecy" of what went on behind closed doors in this situation or the integrity of your player(s)?
I understand the delicate balance that exists in PR, but I don't think the MU PR machine would risk throwing an 18-22 year old kid under the bus (maybe at Louisville, Memphis or UK... but not MU) in this situation and as such, I do not think that Jimmy Butler was "coached" into saying that the team had no idea when it was announced to them that J-May had quit the team. Therefore, I believe that the team honestly had no idea, or at the very least confirmation, that J-May had quit the team until Buzz talked to them on Monday.
I agree with you BMA that the PR machine is well-oiled at MU and elsewhere, but in this case, I think Jimmy was telling the truth at the presser about the team's knowledge of the situation.
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My guess is that JB was telling the truth.
I believe that the Sunday AM incident took place about as reported. Following the ejection of TM and the AAU coach, Jeronne was told to shower up and leave.
At that time he may not yet have been dismissed from the team. Just that in the interests of keeping the peace, he had had been asked to leave practice rather than have him stay and risk further disturbance from his father and the AAU coach. Dismissal may have come subsequently on Sunday.
Again, I'm just guessing the team found out about the dismissal after the fact, from Buzz so they really had no chance to discuss it at length with Jeronne, as JB stated.
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The big problem that I have with the story is chances are they didn't practice Sunday after a late afternoon game Saturday. Buzz usually gives them the day off of practice after games. Now Monday, that I could see.
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I understand the delicate balance that exists in PR, but I don't think the MU PR machine would risk throwing an 18-22 year old kid under the bus (maybe at Louisville, Memphis or UK... but not MU)
Why would you think that MU would be different? I'm not saying that JB was coached or not, but I think it is incredibly naive to think that MU's PR operation would be different than any others.
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The big problem that I have with the story is chances are they didn't practice Sunday after a late afternoon game Saturday. Buzz usually gives them the day off of practice after games. Now Monday, that I could see.
Unless, of course, they just got done sucking for two hours in a nationally televised game in which the regular plan may have been altered.
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The big problem that I have with the story is chances are they didn't practice Sunday after a late afternoon game Saturday. Buzz usually gives them the day off of practice after games. Now Monday, that I could see.
They were practicing free throws ;)
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Should be pretty easy to check. Anyone able to confirm that there was/wasn't practice Sunday morning?
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I see it far more likely this all went down on Monday, not Sunday.
FWIW, on the Scout board, Dodds said the team didn't practice at the AL on Sunday.
It would have been easier for them to get into the AL on Monday.
The story says they went to the ADs office, would there even be anyone in the ADs office on Sunday morning?
That jives with Buzz's story of everything happening Monday, the meeting with the administration, and then meeting with him. It also jives with Jimmy's version, team doesn't see meetings with administration and Buzz, team is then told J-May is gone, which is a surprise to them.
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Why would you think that MU would be different? I'm not saying that JB was coached or not, but I think it is incredibly naive to think that MU's PR operation would be different than any others.
I was partially making a dig against those three schools, but I was also implying that basketball is not the end all, be all at MU (contrary to what some of us here may believe). If you think that a Jesuit institution like MU would allow the athletic PR dept. to risk throwing Jimmy Butler under the bus in order to "cover up" something as irrelevant as the timing behind when the team was notified, then who is the one being naive here?
There is no scandal. This was a kid who left the basketball team (regardless of who made that decision) because his dad is a freak show. Not a big deal, and definitely not worthy of a massive cover-up.
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I see it far more likely this all went down on Monday, not Sunday.
FWIW, on the Scout board, Dodds said the team didn't practice at the AL on Sunday.
Interesting that OP said Sunday. Seems trivial but it shows how minor facts can lead to completely different conclusions. If it happens Monday, Buzz's statement of potentially knowing it was going to happen but still being suprised makes sense. If it is Sunday, then Buzz's statement seems like a half-truth at best.
This is just like journalism. You can have 90% of a story correct, but that 10% that is not fact can lead you to different conclusions. It is quite nefarioius since 90% of the story is true, it makes the story teller appear very credible.
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I was partially making a dig against those three schools, but I was also implying that basketball is not the end all, be all at MU (contrary to what some of us here may believe). If you think that a Jesuit institution like MU would allow the athletic PR dept. to risk throwing Jimmy Butler under the bus in order to "cover up" something as irrelevant as the timing behind when the team was notified, then who is the one being naive here?
Yes, because lord knows that a Catholic institution is above that kind of stuff and would never allow basketball to overwhelm its values.
C'mon...again, I didn't say it *did* happen, but to dismiss it out of hand is ridiculous.
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I honestly don't remember the Matthews thing at all. Maymon was very very visible all the time, constantly being a problem. I don't think the same could ever be said about Wes' mom. Perhaps I just don't remember it that well, but the rep with TM was through the roof.
Pam Moore was a problem for Wisconsin only after Wesley decided on MU. After the commit, Badgers did not like Wesley or Pam. Go figure.
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C'mon...again, I didn't say it *did* happen, but to dismiss it out of hand is ridiculous.
I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, and I do agree with you to an extent.
All I'm saying is that I believe MU holds itself to a higher standard then some other schools whose focus may be elsewhere. Not to say that the MU is the pinnacle of transparency, but I do think that the mission and values of a Jesuit institution would cause the PR machine to operate a bit differently at MU than it does elsewhere.
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Guys...if it was 100% BS, John Dodds, who works for the BB program, would have removed it from his site.
So was it BS then? It's been removed.
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It's true.