5/28 finally official - Sam to UVA, Joey to MSU

[We R Final Four]

The sudden shift in perspective on Joey from many here is pretty hilarious. He’s now viewed as being a whiny, soft malcontent. Never heard any of those assertions before he transferred. Some of you sound like scorned lovers

Some teammates have referred to Joey as ‘Soft serve Vanilla’ that’s pretty funny and telling.

[Skip Intro]

I still think that both Sam and Joey's decisions had more to do with their NBA hopes than any particular rift with Markus, rift with Wojo, etc. 

Sam only has one year of playing left to make an impression.  Next year's MU team adds an aggressive guard who can score playing right alongside a guard who is always looking to score.  Not to mention a more confident senior Sacar, a more seasoned Bailey, and a comeback Greg Elliot.  Odds are, Sam's total ppg would have dipped next year just based on the shots going up around him (including those by his brother).  If Sam's going to the NBA, it'll be for his shooting ability alone.  A drop in production for any shooter can't look good to scouts, so his 2nd round draft odds probably would have been low.  Now, at UVa, he has drawn attention to himself - sure, he has to sit a year, but a very good coach at a very good school wanted him, and their system may allow him to score more.  Even if his scoring average stays about the same as it was at MU last year, he's built a story around himself and has proven he can play in arguably the best conference in men's hoops.  2nd round odds likely go up (I'm just assuming 1st round is out of the picture).

Joey's basically in the same boat, but obviously with more eligibility.  If playing in the NBA is truly their end goal, then this might have been their best option. 

Not saying their wasn't friction on all sides at the end of last year, but this may have been a business decision more than a personal decision.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The sudden shift in perspective on Joey from many here is pretty hilarious. He’s now viewed as being a whiny, soft malcontent. Never heard any of those assertions before he transferred. Some of you sound like scorned lovers

You weren't listening then. There were plenty bashing on Joey during the last half of the season as there always is when players go through a long slump. Some made comments about his body language though those were usually dismissed.

That being said, there are definitely some bashing him now that weren't bashing him before. Definitely a scorned lover feel to a lot of it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I still think that both Sam and Joey's decisions had more to do with their NBA hopes than any particular rift with Markus, rift with Wojo, etc. 

Sam only has one year of playing left to make an impression.  Next year's MU team adds an aggressive guard who can score playing right alongside a guard who is always looking to score.  Not to mention a more confident senior Sacar, a more seasoned Bailey, and a comeback Greg Elliot.  Odds are, Sam's total ppg would have dipped next year just based on the shots going up around him (including those by his brother).  If Sam's going to the NBA, it'll be for his shooting ability alone.  A drop in production for any shooter can't look good to scouts, so his 2nd round draft odds probably would have been low.  Now, at UVa, he has drawn attention to himself - sure, he has to sit a year, but a very good coach at a very good school wanted him, and their system may allow him to score more.  Even if his scoring average stays about the same as it was at MU last year, he's built a story around himself and has proven he can play in arguably the best conference in men's hoops.  2nd round odds likely go up (I'm just assuming 1st round is out of the picture).

Joey's basically in the same boat, but obviously with more eligibility.  If playing in the NBA is truly their end goal, then this might have been their best option. 

Not saying their wasn't friction on all sides at the end of last year, but this may have been a business decision more than a personal decision.

Uva’s System isn’t going to allow him to score more. He will only score more if there aren’t more options available. MU’s offense is much more like an NBAs offense.

[Lennys Tap]

Some teammates have referred to Joey as ‘Soft serve Vanilla’ that’s pretty funny and telling.

Pretty telling, yes. As in wrong and kinda racist. Which "teammates"?

[4everwarriors]

Wee kneed sum tutti frutti playas, hey?

[tower912]

The sudden shift in perspective on Joey from many here is pretty hilarious. He’s now viewed as being a whiny, soft malcontent. Never heard any of those assertions before he transferred. Some of you sound like scorned lovers

I was polite because he was still here.  But he was throwing his hands in the air in November when he didn't get the ball when he thought he should.  I chalked it up to freshman immaturity.  I noticed late in the year when he would get a defensive board and bring it up himself, then passing to Sam rather than passing it to Markus in stride.  And I held my tongue thinking I was imagining it and letting my previous observations affect my interpretation of what I was seeing.   His turnovers trying to pass it anywhere but to Markus.   I attributed them all to being a freshman and assumed he would grow up.    But they all happened.   Now he can grow up for Izzo.

[tower912]

Some teammates have referred to Joey as ‘Soft serve Vanilla’ that’s pretty funny and telling.

Where?  Because I would laugh out loud if that was actually said publicly.

[MU82]

Some teammates have referred to Joey as ‘Soft serve Vanilla’ that’s pretty funny and telling.

Ridiculous comment with no evidence or context.

You weren't listening then. There were plenty bashing on Joey during the last half of the season as there always is when players go through a long slump. Some made comments about his body language though those were usually dismissed.

That being said, there are definitely some bashing him now that weren't bashing him before. Definitely a scorned lover feel to a lot of it.

Agree largely with this. Many Scoopers were advocating for Bailey (and even Cain) to get more of Joey's PT down the stretch, and some were even saying he should be benched. I seem to remember that all having to do with production, however, and not bad body language.

The fact is that Joey did disappear the last month or two. Unable to contribute offensively, he was a net negative because he couldn't play defense. None of which means he can't develop into an excellent player at MSU, just as I believe he would have developed into an excellent player at Marquette.

The later "Joey Sucks And Is Whiny" narrative shouldn't have been bought hook, line and sinker by as many Scoopers as did, but there were parts of it that seemed logical and helped fill in the holes that were part of the "Wojo Is The Worst Ever" narrative. As is almost always the case, the middle ground made the most sense to me.

[NickelDimer]

You weren't listening then. There were plenty bashing on Joey during the last half of the season as there always is when players go through a long slump. Some made comments about his body language though those were usually dismissed.

That being said, there are definitely some bashing him now that weren't bashing him before. Definitely a scorned lover feel to a lot of it.

Meh. I saw an occasional gripe about his body language and many complaints (with merit) about his D, but there’s straight revisionist character assassination going on ONLY because he transferred 

[tower912]

Meh. I saw an occasional gripe about his body language and many complaints (with merit) about his D, but there’s straight revisionist character assassination going on ONLY because he transferred

Yes, if he had stayed, most would have held their tongues and hoped he grew up.    He didn't stay.    Now the repressed gripes are coming out.   

[NickelDimer]

Yes, if he had stayed, most would have held their tongues and hoped he grew up.    He didn't stay.    Now the repressed gripes are coming out.   

Yeah that’s not what this is in my opinion (not referring to you). Some of the venomous posts are strongly influenced by scorned lover syndrome

[bilsu]

I think we need to recognize that Joey was a freshmen playing out of position.
Joey would of been playing out of position one more year, if the Hausers stayed at MU or ended up at the same school.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think we need to recognize that Joey was a freshmen playing out of position.
Joey would of been playing out of position one more year, if the Hausers stayed at MU or ended up at the same school.

He wasn’t playing out of position. Positions are interchangeable in basketball these days.

[willie warrior]

Uva’s System isn’t going to allow him to score more. He will only score more if there aren’t more options available. MU’s offense is much more like an NBAs offense.

WTF? MU's offense is much more like an NBA's offense?

[willie warrior]

Wee kneed sum tutti frutti playas, hey?

Wee kneed sumore playas of the Kalibre of Sam and Joey tu replace whut Wojo lost.

[willie warrior]

Kinda funny that almost erevrybody that posts about Hausergate blame Joey and his antics. Rarely does ny body recognize that Wojo could have prevented this, but it is easier to blame the young turncoat than the man making the huge bucks.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

WTF? MU's offense is much more like an NBA's offense?

Yeah. The four out pick and roll offense is a staple of nba teams.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yeah. The four out pick and roll offense is a staple of nba teams.

You telling me the NBA doesn't employ The Swing offense? 

[Uncle Rico]

Kinda funny that almost erevrybody that posts about Hausergate blame Joey and his antics. Rarely does ny body recognize that Wojo could have prevented this, but it is easier to blame the young turncoat than the man making the huge bucks.

What did you want Wojo to do?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Kinda funny that almost erevrybody that posts about Hausergate blame Joey and his antics. Rarely does ny body recognize that Wojo could have prevented this, but it is easier to blame the young turncoat than the man making the huge bucks.

As the days have gone on, more people are targeting Joey as the cause. But I'd still guess if you broke down the % of posts, most of the criticism would have been directed at Wojo. Whose most right? Who knows?

[tower912]

Turn head coaching duties over to Willie or the Hausers.  Resign.  Commit ritual suicide for the dishonor he had brought.

[Nukem2]

As the days have gone on, more people are targeting Joey as the cause. But I'd still guess if you broke down the % of posts, most of the criticism would have been directed at Wojo. Whose most right? Who knows?

Not rearly a criticism of Joey.  Had he gone to MSU or UW, would this have happened?  Reality is that they are basically the same player and that did not work out long term in MUs system and probably not elsewhere.  That’s probably reflective of why they are not together any more?  Food for thought.

[willie warrior]

What did you want Wojo to do?

I have answered that for you previously. Wojo did not do enough to handle this situation. It appears that he did very little. So ho ahead with your blinders and keep defending a guy that is obviously in over his head.

[MU82]

As the days have gone on, more people are targeting Joey as the cause. But I'd still guess if you broke down the % of posts, most of the criticism would have been directed at Wojo. Whose most right? Who knows?

This.

Wojo took considerable more heat than Joey did, even after the "Crybaby Joey" narrative came out. Hell, I had been what joyless willie would call a "Wojo slurper," and I place the lion's share of blame on Wojo. I'd guess the ratio of Blame Wojo's to Blame Joey's was at least 2-to-1. At least. With a few Blame Markus & Wojo's thrown in. Very few Blame Sam's, though.