Another shooting

[tower912]

So you want to rule that out.  And it cannot be stopped.  And the status quo cannot remain.

Then what do you want?  Just to scream on a message board so you feel better?

Thoughts and prayers.

[Jockey]

Hold all pols to a high standards. They are supposed to be leaders.

The Orange Creep's followers who openly voted for an admitted sexual criminal now demand Franken's scalp.

Please, please - will someone explain?

[Tugg Speedman]

If restricting people's access to certain guns, making people register their guns with the government and limiting those with mental illnesses from getting guns, is "punishment" in your eyes, so be it.

Or you can propose doing nothing and continue to watch people die.  A good guy with a gun did not prevent Vegas.  It did not prevent Texas.  It will not prevent the next.

The people who find any excuse for inaction, such as yourself, are in very much in a way responsible for the continued carnage. YOU are a toadie for the gun industry.  Despite all your supposed intellectualism, you are being lead around by a bunch of people who care only about their wallets.   Blood is on YOUR hands my friend.  YOU are part of the problem.

If restricting people's access to certain guns ... done

making people register their guns with the government ... done (we register the gun owners, not the guns themselves)

limiting those with mental illnesses from getting guns ... done

Besides proposing what has been the law for decades, what else you got? 

Or you can propose doing nothing and continue to watch people die.  A good guy with a gun did not prevent Vegas.  It did not prevent Texas.  It will not prevent the next.

Why do you say this?  Becuase it goes against your political philosophy? 

Again .. you were the guy that said the status quo cannot continue.  I'm, open to hearing what you want.

But all you propose is what is already existing law, suggesting you don't really understand the issue and reject the thing that has not been tried (good guy with a gun). 

So you have nothing and they screaming and whining.  If I wrong, tell me what you want.

[Jockey]

I support any sanctions toward politicians accused of sexual impropriety.    Of both parties.   I'm glad the floodgates have opened in Hollywood.  Bring it out into the open.  Expose the predators and hypocrites, regardless of profession or political persuasion.

Bravo.

But where it happens more is in the workplace. It is about power more than sex and victims are afraid to speak up because they are the ones who will get fired.

[GGGG]

If restricting people's access to certain guns ... done

making people register their guns with the government ... done (we register the gun owners, not the guns themselves)

limiting those with mental illnesses from getting guns ... done

Besides proposing what has been the law for decades, what else you got? 

Or you can propose doing nothing and continue to watch people die.  A good guy with a gun did not prevent Vegas.  It did not prevent Texas.  It will not prevent the next.

Why do you say this?  Becuase it goes against your political philosophy? 

Again .. you were the guy that said the status quo cannot continue.  I'm, open to hearing what you want.

But all you propose is what is already existing law, suggesting you don't really understand the issue and reject the thing that has not been tried (good guy with a gun). 

So you have nothing and they screaming and whining.  If I wrong, tell me what you want.

You’re lying.  It isn’t all existing law.

Stop being dishonest and wash the blood off your hands. History will judge you as one who sit back and philosophized yet did NOTHING.

Congrats.

[Tugg Speedman]

Hold all pols to a high standards. They are supposed to be leaders.

The Orange Creep's followers who openly voted for an admitted sexual criminal now demand Franken's scalp.

Please, please - will someone explain?

Where did he admit he was a sexual criminal?  I missed this.

And isn't Hillary more a criminal on this front?  She led the effort to destroy every one of Bill's sexual accusers.

So, the Orange Creep's voters picked the least offender of the two.

And let's go down this road you want all these people "gone" or just the ones you disagree with politically?

Trump - Gone
Roy Moore - Gone
Franken - Gone
Bill Clinton - Gone
Hillary Clinton - Gone
Bernie "everyone women wants to raped" Sanders - Gone
Joe "Handsy" Biden - Gone
HW "cop-a-feel" Bush - Gone
John Kennedy - Gone ( the worst offender of the last 50 years, pedophile)
Theodore Roosevelt - Gone (off Mt. Rushmore)
Mark Cuban - Gone

... and this is just what we know. 

So are you bi-partisan on this?

[Tugg Speedman]

You’re lying.  It isn’t all existing law.

Stop being dishonest and wash the blood off your hands. History will judge you as one who sit back and philosophized yet did NOTHING.

Congrats.

Here we go ... I have blood on my hands ... you do want to blame owners of guns, not the people that pull the trigger.  here comes the undirected primal scream!

Again, what part of this is not currently the law.  Please correct me.

If restricting people's access to certain guns ... done

making people register their guns with the government ... done (we register the gun owners, not the guns themselves)

limiting those with mental illnesses from getting guns ... done

[Hards Alumni]

Where did he admit he was a sexual criminal?  I missed this.

And isn't Hillary more a criminal on this front?  She led the effort to destroy every one of Bill's sexual accusers.

So, the Orange Creep's voters picked the least offender of the two.

And let's go down this road you want all these people "gone" or just the ones you disagree with politically?

Trump - Gone
Roy Moore - Gone
Franken - Gone
Bill Clinton - Gone
Hillary Clinton - Gone
Bernie "everyone women wants to raped" Sanders - Gone
Joe "Handsy" Biden - Gone
HW "cop-a-feel" Bush - Gone
John Kennedy - Gone ( the worst offender of the last 50 years, pedophile)
Theodore Roosevelt - Gone (off Mt. Rushmore)
Mark Cuban - Gone

... and this is just what we know. 

So are you bi-partisan on this?

You must have missed the part where he said:

Hold all pols to a high standards. They are supposed to be leaders.

I do love your whataboutism... So can you denounce the POTUS's sexual misconduct as well?  No?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

So you want to rule that out.  And it cannot be stopped.  And the status quo cannot remain.

Then what do you want?  Just to scream on a message board so you feel better?

Who's screaming?  Why do you feel the need to speak in absolutes?  What I want is something, anything to be done. 

No, not all mass shootings can be stopped.  However, I strongly believe steps can be taken to both reduce the amount of them and magnitude of the carnage.  Those steps have been covered here many times before. 

Sure, a good guy with a gun can potentially help in such a situation.  Or such an individual can harm other bystanders.  To rely on that as a solution is idiotic.   

You're a real piece of work. 

[tower912]

How many mass shootings in Australia since they bought back the guns?

How many in Japan, which has an incredibly
High education and licensing threshold?

[Tugg Speedman]

Who's screaming?  Why do you feel the need to speak in absolutes?  What I want is something, anything to be done. 

No, not all mass shootings can be stopped.  I strongly believe steps can be taken to both reduce the amount of them and magnitude of the carnage. 

Sure, a good guy with a gun can potentially help in such a situation.  Or such an individual can harm other bystanders.  To rely on that as a solution is idiotic.   

You're a real piece of work.

Ok, all you have is to scream "do something."  For the third time, what part of what I said is existing law is wrong? 

But now you seem to be coming around to my idea about a "good guy with a gun."  I guess that is progress.

I strongly believe steps can be taken to both reduce the amount of them and magnitude of the carnage. 

Ok, and for the fourth time ... what?

[Tugg Speedman]

How many mass shootings in Australia since they bought back the guns?

Impossible to tell and we are too different to replicate here.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths-mass-shootings/

Did Australia and Great Britain’s reforms prevent mass shootings? It’s hard to say, simply because mass shootings are relatively rare. In the post-buyback period, Great Britain has had one massacre with guns while Australia has had none. It’s hard to calculate how many would have been expected without a ban. Australia looks more successful in this regard, because it had more frequent mass shootings before the ban (averaging about two mass shootings every three years from 1979 to 1996.) Mass shootings in Great Britain, prior to the ban, were rarer. Prior to 1996, there hadn’t been a widely covered mass shooting in Britain since 1987.

It’s hard even to calculate how successful the bans were at getting powerful guns out of private hands. Neither Great Britain nor Australia had a registry of guns before the new laws, so, although the governments can report how many guns they collected, it’s difficult to estimate how many guns people kept when they were supposed to turn them in. In Australia, estimates of the share of guns collected range from 40 to 80 percent of the guns sought. It is difficult to find any estimate of what percentage of guns Great Britain managed to recover; instead most reports cite the raw numbers of guns turned in.

...

In Australia, homicides declined after the ban and buyback, but homicides had already been falling, according to a 2003 analysis by criminologists Peter Reuter and Jenny Mouzos. The share of robberies and suicides committed with a gun declined, but the researchers found that the overall data was “consistent with a story of substitution” — meaning people used other weapons for homicide and suicide. Through 1998, the number of suicides (normalized by age) remained nearly constant, and the share of suicides using a firearm fell by the same rate it had been falling before the ban. Armed robberies increased through 2000, though fewer were conducted with a gun. Causing criminals and potential suicide victims to reach for a different weapon could be a partial victory for a buyback program. Most alternative weapons are less lethal than a firearm. But if that happened, it didn’t appear to change the overall trend for violent deaths.

...

Any success Australia and Great Britain had reducing gun deaths would be hard to replicate in the U.S., because of how it differs from those places before their bans. One of the most obvious differences is that these other nations are islands. Smuggling in illegal guns is harder in places like Australia and Great Britain because they don’t have land borders. The U.S. also has far more guns already within its borders; as of 2009, the Bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco estimated there were more than 300 million guns in America.

There’s another important difference between the U.S. and other countries when it comes to guns. Neither Britain nor Australia has anything like the Second Amendment, so many parts of their reforms, from total bans to requiring a reason for gun ownership, might not survive judicial review in the U.S. — if there were ever the political will to make them laws in the first place.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Ok, all you have is to scream "do something."  For the third time, what part of what I said is existing law is wrong? 

But now you seem to be coming around to my idea about a "good guy with a gun."  I guess that is progress.

I strongly believe steps can be taken to both reduce the amount of them and magnitude of the carnage. 

Ok, and for the fourth time ... what?

I'm not coming around to anything.  A good guy with a gun is not a viable solution in regards to reducing the occurrence of mass shootings and the amount of lives lost.  Anyone who thinks that is the best course of action is not particularly bright.   

The steps have been covered with you ad nauseum, including in this thread by Sultan, so I'm not going to waste my time listing them out for you again. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The 538 article Heisy posted is not wrong. It is impossible to know how many mass shootings were stopped by Australia's gun buyback. You can't prove a negative.....but it's also hard to argue with those results.

I agree that a buyback here wouldn't stop all gun violence. But I think it could make a significant impact. In fact, I think it would make the biggest impact in places like Chicago which is often the first thing pro-gun folks bring up after mass shootings.

[Tugg Speedman]

The 538 article Heisy posted is not wrong. It is impossible to know how many mass shootings were stopped by Australia's gun buyback. You can't prove a negative.....but it's also hard to argue with those results.

I agree that a buyback here wouldn't stop all gun violence. But I think it could make a significant impact. In fact, I think it would make the biggest impact in places like Chicago which is often the first thing pro-gun folks bring up after mass shootings.

Chicago has had several buybacks.  They never work as the majority of guns are either broken or collecting dust in someone's basement.  No bad guys sell their gun.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Where did he admit he was a sexual criminal?  I missed this.

I believe he is referring to both the admitted "wet hairy cat grabbing" which he dismissed as locker talk and the comments about going into the dressing room of the miss universe pageants when the contests were naked. Both of these things, which at one point he claimed to do, could be considered sex crimes if the stories were true.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Chicago has had several buybacks.  They never work as the majority of guns are either broken or collecting dust in someone's basement.  No bad guys sell their gun.

I'm sure they have. Make them bigger. Offer more. Make it a part of a nationwide effort. While some people hold that our views on guns will never change, I don't believe that. I think with every mass shooting, more and more moderates are starting to believe that gun control is the answer to gun violence. The extremes may be getting more polarized, but I think the moderates on this topic are starting to shift in favor of gun control.

[Tugg Speedman]

I believe he is referring to both the admitted "wet hairy cat grabbing" which he dismissed as locker talk and the comments about going into the dressing room of the miss universe pageants when the contests were naked. Both of these things, which at one point he claimed to do, could be considered sex crimes if the stories were true.

When did locker room talk become a crime.  (if he actually did it, or tried, it would be.  Has any actress ever come out and claim he did, or tried?)

Regarding the Miss Universe Locker Room, was he the only Man that did that?  I thought the locker rooms were like Grand Central during those pageants and many did that (stagehands, other producers etc.)

Again ... I'm not defending Trump, I asking Jockey (latest of numerous falsehoods) that Trump to show where Trump is an admitted sexual criminal.  Not true.

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm sure they have. Make them bigger. Offer more. Make it a part of a nationwide effort. While some people hold that our views on guns will never change, I don't believe that. I think with every mass shooting, more and more moderates are starting to believe that gun control is the answer to gun violence. The extremes may be getting more polarized, but I think the moderates on this topic are starting to shift in favor of gun control.

Bad guys don't sell their guns back.

[#TheThing]

Failure of gov't if you look at it.

In the Texas shooting the laws were in place to prevent him from buying a gun because he was dishonorably discharged, but the gov't screwed up by not putting him into the database to prevent it.  So the cure is to penalize all of us that are legally using guns the correct way?

Laws were in place, but failed.  The same is true in California where the killer stabbed someone earlier this year and was not able to buy guns. Instead, he built his own.  The solution is to penalize the 99.9999% of us that respect people, guns, practice safety?

For those of us that own guns we are deeply troubled by the crazies that commit crimes, but when we hear someone say we have to do more what does more mean?  What we already do doesn't work because gov't fails at enforcement.  Which is why so many of us believe the true intentions is total ban, which the gun control lobby denies, but is very much on their minds. Boston Globe opined to confiscate all guns. https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2017/11/10/hand-over-your-weapons/6IxJLanMKGak7RvCLipwbN/story.html     

And yes, thoughts and prayers are never a bad thing.  The failure of govt to enact the laws passed should not penalize others through additional gov't action that they will also fail at.  Only law abiding people are hurt by this.

[buckchuckler]

Good guys with guns is not the solution.

Umm.  Just watched the first episode of Punisher.  I have to disagree. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Bad guys don't sell their guns back.

I'm sure most don't.  But I think some do and would.  Every little bit helps.

Ultimately,  the solution to the gun violence problem in the US is a culture change. It's not necessarily about getting guns away from bad people now.  It's about making sure the future generation don't believe in gun violence in the first place.

[#TheThing]

The sexual assault and harassment stuff has been a time bomb since Clinton.  When the National Organization for Women refused to do anything and stayed quiet it was one of the great disappointments to the women's movement.  Terrible path to take.  Enabled the actions with double standards.  Only now is he finally being condemned and his accusers believed.  Decades were lost.  The left now saying he should have resigned rings hollow decades later.  If he had done it then, imagine how far ahead we would be with this?

The most powerful man in the world taken down by those actions, but not to be.  It would have woke people.  Now Hollywood and other people of power are getting theirs, though it has also become weaponized.  The carnage will be wide. 

[jesmu84]

Where did he admit he was a sexual criminal?  I missed this.

And isn't Hillary more a criminal on this front?  She led the effort to destroy every one of Bill's sexual accusers.

So, the Orange Creep's voters picked the least offender of the two.

And let's go down this road you want all these people "gone" or just the ones you disagree with politically?

Trump - Gone
Roy Moore - Gone
Franken - Gone
Bill Clinton - Gone
Hillary Clinton - Gone
Bernie "everyone women wants to raped" Sanders - Gone
Joe "Handsy" Biden - Gone
HW "cop-a-feel" Bush - Gone
John Kennedy - Gone ( the worst offender of the last 50 years, pedophile)
Theodore Roosevelt - Gone (off Mt. Rushmore)
Mark Cuban - Gone

... and this is just what we know. 

So are you bi-partisan on this?

Hello there, false equivalencies. One has nothing to do with the other

Quite frankly, most people in here have said throw all the violators out.

I noticed you have made no such statement.

[jesmu84]

The sexual assault and harassment stuff has been a time bomb since Clinton.  When the National Organization for Women refused to do anything and stayed quiet it was one of the great disappointments to the women's movement.  Terrible path to take.  Enabled the actions with double standards.  Only now is he finally being condemned and his accusers believed.  Decades were lost.  The left now saying he should have resigned rings hollow decades later.  If he had done it then, imagine how far ahead we would be with this?

The most powerful man in the world taken down by those actions, but not to be.  It would have woke people.  Now Hollywood and other people of power are getting theirs, though it has also become weaponized.  The carnage will be wide.

Fine. It was washed over in the past (as lots of issues have been before and will be in the future).

So do the right thing today. With everyone. Everywhere. Regardless of political party or position or power or wealth.

Agree?