To All Of The Crean Bashers Out There. . .

[rocky_warrior]

my contention is, raise the bar, just making the NCAAs anymore doesn't cut it, you have to win and move on, and do it yr after yr.  going to the Elite 8 or another Final Four and then having another 3-4 year drought of first round NCAA/NIT exists won't cut it either.  win and be consistent in following seasons.

I've stayed out of this, but wait a second.  Even "elite" programs miss the NCAA occasionally.  See UCONN this year.  They didn't even make the NIT!  1st round exits don't mean that you've gone in the crapper either.  See Kansas the past few years.

If crean can build up a *little* more, make the NCAAs approx 6 of 8 years, and have a nice little run a couple of those 6 years, then I think we're doing VERY well. 

It's impossible to make the sweet 16 every year.  IMPOSSIBLE.  So if that's what you mean by consistency, then your expectations are too high.  And I don't just mean they're too high for Marquette, I mean they're too high for ANY NCAA school.  Nobody can do it.  Raise the bar too high, and you're destined for failure.

Ok, my last (and first?) post in this thread.  We're *almost* where we need to be.  Just enjoy what we've got.  A pretty good program right now.

[muPARTY]

i can never resist a good argument 

Less to rebuild?  Deane's teams went from a second round NCAA exit, to an embarrassing first round exit where he was suspended for the next NCAA game he would coach, to an NIT season to a 14-15 losing record.  Wrong direction.

look at your facts, in 6 of the 7 seasons before Crean took over MU had 20+ wins with 4 NCAA and 2 NITtrips
in the 7 seasons before Self at Oral Roberts: 11-17, 8-21, 8-20, 36-6, 29-6, 10-18, 5-22.  oh yeah, those two seasons of 36 & 29 wins came were in the NAIA
which one was worse to inherit again ?

...TC is being compensated very nicely because under his tenure we reached a Final Four, he has recruited NBA players that provide our basketball program great exposure and has elevated this program to a level where we are no longer a stepping stone program. Furthermore, his success here has helped fund the AL, increased attendence at our basketball games and has positioned us to make the NCAA's for a possible 3 and 4 years in a row(something we have not seen here since Hank Raymonds was coach).  That is the measuring stick you should be guaging.  Where were we as a program in March 1999 and where are we now.  We went from a team trending towards a perinneal NIT team to a team that is on the verge of going back-to-back-to-back-to..........of the NCAA tourny.  We went from me being able to buy a ticket to a game against Cincy the night before the game to having weekend games sellout.  We went from not being mentioned by anyone in TV to turning on any basketball broadcast and having a good chance that Marquette would be mentioned at some point in time.  

i've never called into doubt his contributions to MArquette and never will.  but all i  hear is "better than it used to be".  that's all in good right now, but for how long can you say a program is re-establishing itself?  i feel like the next step to reestablishment comes from winning, tournament winning.  and as i've pointed out 5 opening round losses in 7 tries.

You want to compare TC's salary to other coaches but you can't argue that statement logically.  First of all none of those coaches would come to MU for the amount of money that (a) TC initially received and (b) currently makes.  You think we can hire Matta and all of a sudden get the next Oden, Durant or OJ Mayo?    

i compared the salaries for the purpose of comparing salary/accomplishments.  i never said the recruiting thing was problem, except when it came to post players.  to (a) and (b), i don't know what his hiring salary was and his current salary, was basically established after the Final Four when many of those other coaches signed at new schools.  hire Matta they come?  nope, but something made Oden go to a school that was very recentlyunder NCAA suspention.... but i say let OSU keep Matta

MU is not in a position where we can select recruits and I don't see who would be willing to come here that would change that perception.

i thought Dominic, Wes, and Jerel changed that perception.  heard some good things about this Trevor Mbakwe fella too.  but, to play devil's advocate, how would they get tot he point of being able to select recruits?  win... in let's say the tournament?  maybe do it year after year?  but it's probably not the (here's that stat again) 2-7 in opening round games is it?
 

I guess I just can't believe that everyone can't see that this program is in a better position now than it has been in the last 10 to 20 years.      

i guess I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE that everyone sees where the program is now, where is was (and for some reason accepting that going back to the 70s would be setting the bar too high  ???  so they only look back as far as the 80s) and are content.  i ran down Wisconsin Ave to the lake in '03 to see back to back 19 win seasons and 2 NITs (with one being a loss at home, in the first round to western michigan ), to find people saying it was better than it was 10-20 years ago.  then came 10-6 in the Big East and some talented freshmen, and while '06 didn't end exactly on top, all i could think of was how good '07 would be. then '07 came with some good wins, and bad losses, and then nothing.  no improvement, no taking it to the next level.  still, everyone says "better than it used to be". 

come '07-'08 i'll still be cheering for the team, putting all i have into supporting them, and believing they can go all the way.... and hoping for someone to raise the bar from the 80s to the 70s and say "they're not better than they used to be, let's see if they can"

***ok, enough of me trying to pick a fight    i like crean as a coach, him at Marquette is very good, for both, but my expectations are higher than "better than it used to be"

[muPARTY]

If crean can build up a *little* more, make the NCAAs approx 6 of 8 years, and have a nice little run a couple of those 6 years, then I think we're doing VERY well. 

...We're *almost* where we need to be.  Just enjoy what we've got.  A pretty good program right now.

hit the nail on the head of what i was trying to convey.  and to answer your question, the consistency is, if they make a run to Sweet 16, Elite 8, etc, then have an opening round win in one of those couple of years following the run.  not a 4yr drought between seeing the round of 32.  that was all.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

2002mualum, i absolutly get what you're saying.  Tom Crean has made this program (overall) the best it's been since Al, if he left now it would be a step backward, and there's no way any of those 9 other coaches are coming here if TC was to leave.

the question i was orginally getting at, back whatever number of posts ago, is "To keep his job, what's the minimum from TC/MU that people expect?"

i just get the feeling around here (MU fanbase) is that all TC needs to do is win 20 games and make the NCAA and anything after that (tournament wins) is gravy, because it's better than it used to be.  he's 2-7 in opening round games for the NCAA/NIT (1 NCAA and 1 NIT).  my contention is, raise the bar, just making the NCAAs anymore doesn't cut it, you have to win and move on, and do it yr after yr.  going to the Elite 8 or another Final Four and then having another 3-4 year drought of first round NCAA/NIT exists won't cut it either.  win and be consistent in following seasons.

I understand that we don't want just "accept" things, I guess I personally feel like patience is important. There is a lot of talent here and coming in, so lets see how the next few years go.

It's going to be a fun couple of years watching the current group develop.