MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: wadesworld on June 03, 2013, 10:50:23 PM
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Marquette's soccer field will be receiving an upgrade thanks almost entirely to Tom Crean's donation to the soccer program! What a Saint! He's always been all about the Marquette athletics.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/209997931.html
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Marquette's soccer field will be receiving an upgrade thanks almost entirely to Tom Crean's donation to the soccer program! What a Saint! He's always been all about the Marquette athletics.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/209997931.html
5 page thread on the merits of Crean in 3. 2. 1...
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The rendering they had of the soccer stadium was awesome. It's too bad they don't build that.
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/scan0001.jpg)
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That thing looks great. Was that ever in the plans? Where did it originally show up?
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That thing looks great. Was that ever in the plans? Where did it originally show up?
That's not the final plan. Coach Tom Crean wants something with more rafters before he hands over one thin dime.
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Can someone help with the back story? I recall a press release indicating that Crean would give some money for the field. Are people bothered with the fact that he issued the press release or did he renege or both?
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Not a press release, a "big announcement". Then the asshat split town and never ponied up the cash.
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Did he request "TC" be put in the middle of the field in small letters? ?-(
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In all fairness to TC I believe he has said he will still give $1 million when they do build it.
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In all fairness to TC I believe he has said he will still give $1 million when they do build it.
I thought it was $100,000.
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In all fairness to TC I believe he has said he will still give $1 million when they do build it.
You're kiddin', right? Take off a zero.
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Can someone help with the back story? I recall a press release indicating that Crean would give some money for the field. Are people bothered with the fact that he issued the press release or did he renege or both?
June 28, 2007:
MILWAUKEE - Marquette University's plan to build a new soccer stadium received a significant boost today from head basketball coach Tom Crean and his wife, Joani. Motivated by their admiration for the University and respect for the commitment and vision of the soccer program's head coaches, Louis Bennett and Markus Roeders, the Crean family has committed $100,000 to the campaign.
The Creans hope the gift will provide momentum to the fundraising efforts and serve as a catalyst for others to support the project.
"In years past we've tried to give back to the university, but this is our first gift to athletics," said Tom and Joani Crean. "Our athletics' programs have never been stronger and it's because they're led by quality people. Markus Roeders has proven over time that he is one of the finest coaches to ever represent Marquette University, and Louis Bennett is headed in the same direction with a promising future in men's soccer."
Crean said he will work to inform Marquette friends and supporters about the benefits of a first-class soccer facility, and will also encourage others to follow his family's lead.
The new stadium, to be constructed on the program's current home Valley Fields, will feature a top-quality natural-grass pitch, partially covered spectator seating, team locker and meeting rooms, concessions and restrooms. The cost of the new stadium, which will be funded through private gifts, will total approximately $5 million.
The Creans' $100,000 pledge is the Athletic Department's second in its campaign for a new soccer stadium. Earlier this month, KBS Construction, Inc. chairman Dennis Klein and his wife, Barbara, committed $1 million to officially launch the project. "I am delighted but in no way surprised by Tom and Joani's generosity and support of the soccer stadium project. This commitment by their family is simply another instance of the ownership they have had in this university and athletics program since that day more than eight years ago when they first stepped foot on campus. We are very fortunate to have Tom as Marquette's men's basketball coach but even more fortunate to have the Crean family as part of the Marquette family," said Interim Athletic Director Steve Cottingham.
"We are ecstatic and grateful that Tom and Joani have chosen to support our fundraising efforts to build a soccer stadium. Since they arrived at Marquette, they have always shown tremendous support for the University, athletics and the community. The Creans have always raised the bar when it comes to making things better and Tom's success with the basketball program has had a positive affect on all of our athletic teams," said Head Women's Soccer Coach Markus Roeders
Marquette University has made significant improvements to its soccer facilities in the last 12 months. Prior to last season, the university installed "Field Turf" at the practice facility adjacent to the playing field at Valley Fields. The new, state-of-the-art surface offers durability with the feel of real grass while eliminating the body burns associated with typical synthetic turf, but more importantly it allowed Marquette's soccer programs to practice on campus daily. Before this resource existed, the teams traveled up to 40 minutes one-way on a daily basis in order to practice.
"Knowing Tom just short time I have, but seeing his work ethic, drive, determination and dedication to Marquette's success both on and off the field I am honored that he would show the kind of support, vision and belief in the future of the soccer programs with such a gift. The donation is a powerful and generous statement that reflects the Creans' commitment to Marquette," said Head Men's Soccer Coach Louis Bennett.
At the time of the Klein's announcement, Cottingham said the practice facility and campaign for a new stadium are consistent with the University's mission of excellence and will position Marquette's soccer programs in an elevated status nationally. He said the goal is to complete the fundraising efforts by the end of the calendar year and begin construction after the final home soccer match this fall.
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So does this mean the lacrosse team will now play their home games at Valley rather than Tosa' or wherever they played this year?
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They aren't installing anything like the picture. There's no new grandstand. Its just the turf and irrigation.
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In all fairness to TC I believe he has said he will still give $1 million when they do build it.
Which is what most donors usually do. Make a commitment but generally not transfer the assets until the fundraising is finalized.
But hey...why acknowledge that reality when people can take potshots at Crean instead?
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So Crean does something nice for Marquette and we still want to talk about how he's the anti-christ?
MU fans are worse about Tom Crean than Packer fans are about Favre
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Crean's biggest donation to the school was getting out of Dodge before the cupbard was completely bare. Buzz has done as well, and appears to be recruiting better, for the most part
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MU did tons more for Tom Crean, the brand, than he did over ever could do for Marquette.
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Oops. Yeah not $1 million.
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So Crean does something nice for Marquette and we still want to talk about how he's the anti-christ?
MU fans are worse about Tom Crean than Packer fans are about Favre
Bret Favre's behavior was not treacherous and cowardly. Tom Crean's was decidedly so.
(http://www.myfconline.com/journal/upload/6595_130527_20091206152840.jpg)
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Bret Favre's behavior was not treacherous and cowardly. Tom Crean's was decidedly so.
(http://www.myfconline.com/journal/upload/6595_130527_20091206152840.jpg)
What does Chewbacca have to do with this thread?
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(http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/jay-cutler-doesnt-care.png)
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Bret Favre's behavior was not treacherous and cowardly. Tom Crean's was decidedly so.
(http://www.myfconline.com/journal/upload/6595_130527_20091206152840.jpg)
He got offered more money to coach at a Blue Blood University. I would take that every time. The way he departed was....less than classy...but the Final Four and getting us to the Big East more than make up for that. His good outweighs his bad.
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LMAO.
TWITTA TRACKA
Marquette Soccer@marquettesoccer3h
Valley Fields is getting a facelift after 20 years. Nationally recognized Bush Turf to manage re-sod project http://bit.ly/ZLoiAW
Retweeted by Marquette Athletics
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Reply to @marquettesoccer @muathletics
Chevy@disco_chevy2h
@marquettesoccer @muathletics has @TomCrean sent his $100k check yet?
Expand
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#CreanIsALiar
Lets get it trending
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#Creansucks
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Yeah, this is bad in the way he put up a banner for the Alaskan shoot-out but did he do anything else wrong besides offer up $100K to see if others would pony up for the stadium? It's not like he tore up the plans to the stadium or said he is taking back his promise. As far as I know, it seems to still be on the table.
Can't pay for the kids college if he can't get in....
#Creaned
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#Creansucks
#CreantheCoward
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How much was that hyperbaric chamber?
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How much was that hyperbaric chamber?
Twitter Tracker
Tom Crea@TomCrean
The day I bought the hyperbaric chamber I knew it would pay dividends for Marquette University and it's basketball program. I am happy to say I was able to contribute such an integral part of Marquette University's run to the Elite Eight this year. Congratulations to the guy I told Marquette University to hire for the success he is having, I knew he was a high major coach.
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Does Marquette still have Crean's karate Gi? That relic belongs in Marquette's time capsule.
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This thread seems to prove there is something up with Hoopaloop.
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Twitter Tracker
Tom Crea@TomCrean
The day I bought the hyperbaric chamber I knew it would pay dividends for Marquette University and it's basketball program. I am happy to say I was able to contribute such an integral part of responsible for Marquette University's run to the Elite Eight this year. Congratulations to the guy I told Marquette University to hire for the success he is having, I knew he was a high major coach he would find success given the Sweet Sixteen ready program I built for him.
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This thread seems to prove there is something up with Hoopaloop.
rockin the pontoon brah! jetskis all around and PBRs! a little hacky sack with Mike Scocia by the campfire-ino.
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rockin the pontoon brah! jetskis all around and PBRs! a little hacky sack with Mike Scocia by the campfire-ino.
Now comes Miller Time
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VJYDO3RmKqk/SVVFnomnFRI/AAAAAAAAAlw/YWp-A7lj6Ik/S1600-R/CIMG0619.JPG)
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Now comes Miller Time
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_VJYDO3RmKqk/SVVFnomnFRI/AAAAAAAAAlw/YWp-A7lj6Ik/S1600-R/CIMG0619.JPG)
4never was there too?!
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4never was there too?!
That's a different big mouthed, Marlboro smokin, tatted up, busty broad from when I saw him walking out of the Sybaris in the Quon a few weeks ago.
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He got offered more money to coach at a Blue Blood University. I would take that every time. The way he departed was....less than classy...but the Final Four and getting us to the Big East more than make up for that. His good outweighs his bad.
Are you Chicos reincarnated?
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He got offered more money to coach at a Blue Blood University. I would take that every time. The way he departed was....less than classy...but the Final Four and getting us to the Big East more than make up for that. His good outweighs his bad.
Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend!
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Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend!
Chicos, through clenched jaw:
"....cannot....resist....creating...alternate....screen name....must....defend....total...douchebag."
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Chicos, through clenched jaw:
"....cannot....resist....creating...alternate....screen name....must....defend....total...douchebag."
LOL
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He got offered more money to coach at a Blue Blood University. I would take that every time. The way he departed was....less than classy...but the Final Four and getting us to the Big East more than make up for that. His good outweighs his bad.
Chicos?
oooops. Didn't see the other references to ChicoHoop.
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Did I miss this? Has Chicos been banned again?
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Chicos, through clenched jaw:
"....cannot....resist....creating...alternate....screen name....must....defend....total...douchebag."
As always the Nightmare's wit is spot on.
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/scan0001.jpg)
I hope they make a poster just like this saying that Valley Fields will be the future home of co-ed intramural flag football.
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co-ed intramural flag football.
Clothed or otherwise?
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Chicos, through clenched jaw:
"....cannot....resist....creating...alternate....screen name....must....defend....total...douchebag."
Rican, FTW.
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Does Chicos owns the record for most screen names?
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Crean's biggest donation to the school was getting out of Dodge before the cupbard was completely bare. Buzz has done as well
Buzz left?
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Are you Chicos reincarnated?
Nah, I'm a long time reader but new poster. On most issues I think he is a douche but I actually agree with Chicos on the Crean issue.
I of course have no way of proving I'm not Chicos....this could be another step in his plan to take over Scoop by having the most screen names....
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You just registered 5/31/13.
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You just registered 5/31/13.
Again, long time reader. New poster
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Nah, I'm a long time reader but new poster. On most issues I think he is a douche but I actually agree with Chicos on the Crean issue.
I of course have no way of proving I'm not Chicos....this could be another step in his plan to take over Scoop by having the most screen names....
You should be gettin' a backyard invite in no time
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Nah, I'm a long time reader but new poster. On most issues I think he is a douche but I actually agree with Chicos on the Crean issue.
I of course have no way of proving I'm not Chicos....this could be another step in his plan to take over Scoop by having the most screen names....
Another chair is pulled up to the table at The Orange County Backyard Summit.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/96138/thumbs/r-BEER-SUMMIT-large570.jpg)
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hey, y'all! analytical eagle here! jet skier, beer drinker, and long time lurker...
(http://bbgg.groupsite.com/galleries/photo/185355/dl/original/White%20Trash%20Party%203-27-11%20032.JPG?1301282983)
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Nah, I'm a long time reader but new poster. On most issues I think he is a douche but I actually agree with Chicos on the Crean issue.
I of course have no way of proving I'm not Chicos....this could be another step in his plan to take over Scoop by having the most screen names....
Call Walgreen's immediately and get that prescription re-filled! You're a danger to the community!
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Again, long time reader. New poster
C'mon Chico! You must think us fools. This is so desperately transparent. Please.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/61/6146/QT4G100Z/posters/whitney-darrow-jr-good-heavens-emma-i-thought-this-was-you-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
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C'mon Chico! You must think us fools. This is so desperately transparent. Please.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/61/6146/QT4G100Z/posters/whitney-darrow-jr-good-heavens-emma-i-thought-this-was-you-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
I'm right here. I've been very busy of late. No idea who Analytical Eagle is, but it certainly isn't me, nor was Hoopaloop. You guys keep trying.
I would think the moderators here could end this in a few seconds. ::)
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Which is what most donors usually do. Make a commitment but generally not transfer the assets until the fundraising is finalized.
But hey...why acknowledge that reality when people can take potshots at Crean instead?
+1
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+1
I am laughing my a$$ off right now. God Bless you, Chico!
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Chicahoopaeagle!
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I am laughing my a$$ off right now. God Bless you, Chico!
Glad I can help in that area. Peace
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Glad I can help in that area. Peace
The Backyard Summit, Interrupted
(http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/photobooth/Kamber_War0010.jpg)
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I have a confession to make. I am (also) ChicosHoopedAnEagle.
(That has a nice ring to it. I'll have to use that one when the moderators ban me for having 4 usernames.)
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I'm right here. I've been very busy of late. No idea who Analytical Eagle is, but it certainly isn't me, nor was Hoopaloop. You guys keep trying.
I would think the moderators here could end this in a few seconds. ::)
(http://mattystonecartoons.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/laurentdevil.jpg?w=468)
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I think it's pretty clear Chicos would never use "Eagle" in one of his screen names.
Unless he's trying to throw us off....
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(http://mattystonecartoons.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/laurentdevil.jpg?w=468)
this one just nailed it...good find!
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I think it's pretty clear Chicos would never use "Eagle" in one of his screen names.
Unless he's trying to throw us off....
Good point. And an Indiana alum/fan would NEVER claim to be from Purdue.
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So.....how about that soccer stadium donation?
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Any excuse to hate on Tom Crean is fully taken advantage of on this site... Get over it it was 6 years ago and MU is in great shape, and so is Tom Crean.
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Any excuse to hate on Tom Crean is fully taken advantage of on this site... Get over it it was 6 years ago and MU is in great shape, and so is Tom Crean.
If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years and nothing beyond that is in good shape and highly regarded by the IU faithful, then yeah, you're right.
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years and nothing beyond that is in good shape and highly regarded by the IU faithful, then yeah, you're right.
One cannot help but think the IU faithful have a bit of sour taste from last season. After all, many pundits had them as the preseason favorite to run the table. A Sweet Sixteen finish is the moral equivalent of a Pitino Porcini 15 second finish. Quite the build up with a rather premature finish and considerable anguish in the aftermath. The Bloomington jury is still out in the matter of Coach Tom Crean though I believe the Marquette audience can predict the denouement of this stage production.
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years and nothing beyond that is in good shape and highly regarded by the IU faithful, then yeah, you're right.
If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years is all Crean has accomplished at IU, then you don't understand the situation Crean inherited at IU and you seriously undervalue the regular season.
Also, he is pretty highly regarded by the IU faithful, but he will eventually have to show some more tourney success to stay highly regarded.
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years is all Crean has accomplished at IU, then you don't understand the situation Crean inherited and IU and you seriously undervalue the regular season.
Also, he is pretty highly regarded by the IU faithful, but he will eventually have to show some more tourney success to stay highly regarded.
His quick finish last season was noted...
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00008_Ew1M6SCTM/s/900/720/Sex-Sexism-Relationships-Cartoons-Punch-1991-01-02-23-4.jpg)
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years is all Crean has accomplished at IU, then you don't understand the situation Crean inherited...
Of course we understand. How could we not when you consider the jackass brings it up at every opportunity?
By the way, there seems to be a lot of experts around here concerning the "IU faithful." I do not consider myself an insider, but I know at least half a dozen diehard Hoosier fans and not a single one can stand they guy. I really think its only Marquette fans who can't admit they've been wrong all along who continue to defend and act like we are all simply jilted (which is a riot).
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Of course we understand. How could we not when you consider the jackass brings it up at every opportunity?
By the way, there seems to be a lot of experts around here concerning the "IU faithful." I do not consider myself an insider, but I know at least half a dozen diehard Hoosier fans and not a single one can stand they guy. I really think its only Marquette fans who can't admit they've been wrong all along who continue to defend and act like we are all simply jilted (which is a riot).
I have similar anecdotal evidence that says otherwise. My boss, another co-worker, and a couple friends are "IU faithful", and they all speak highly of Crean. They are happy to have IU back in the national spotlight, Big Ten contenders, #1 ranking, top 10 recruiting classes, and above all else a clean program.
That said, both of us can only cite anecdotal evidence. If you can somehow show me a mass movement against Crean, I would concede. My guess is that you won't find it, because it doesn't exist.
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Nah, I'm a long time reader but new poster. On most issues I think he is a douche but I actually agree with Chicos on the Crean issue.
For Chicos, that is the only issue.
EDIT: OK, that's not entirely fair. I actually do appreciate his insight on the TV stuff, especially with this Fox deal.
Crean is just the majority of posts ;)
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I have similar anecdotal evidence that says otherwise. My boss, another co-worker, and a couple friends are "IU faithful", and they all speak highly of Crean. They are happy to have IU back in the national spotlight, Big Ten contenders, #1 ranking, top 10 recruiting classes, and above all else a clean program.
That said, both of us can only cite anecdotal evidence. If you can somehow show me a mass movement against Crean, I would concede. My guess is that you won't find it, because it doesn't exist.
I know both kinds of IU fans (they run about 40-60 on him). Until late March the 40% who liked him thought we were jilted lovers when we said it just wouldn't happen (3rd weekend). Now that 40% crowd is shrinking. MU continuing to rise sans TC is not helping his cause.
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Of course we understand. How could we not when you consider the jackass brings it up at every opportunity?
By the way, there seems to be a lot of experts around here concerning the "IU faithful." I do not consider myself an insider, but I know at least half a dozen diehard Hoosier fans and not a single one can stand they guy. I really think its only Marquette fans who can't admit they've been wrong all along who continue to defend and act like we are all simply jilted (which is a riot).
"I don't understand how my guy didn't win the election, every single person I know voted for him"
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For Chicos, that is the only issue.
EDIT: OK, that's not entirely fair. I actually do appreciate his insight on the TV stuff, especially with this Fox deal.
Crean is just the majority of posts ;)
It's not even a small minority of my posts.....hyperbole on your part at its best.
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Good point. And an Indiana alum/fan would NEVER claim to be from Purdue.
Goes without saying, unless you went to both schools....I actually know a guy at work that did that (a bunch that went to USC and UCLA, too). In your world it isn't possible for someone to attend UCLA and USC, yet I have 2 folks on my team alone that did that very thing and can think of at least 10 others at the office.
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years and nothing beyond that is in good shape and highly regarded by the IU faithful, then yeah, you're right.
2 Sweet 16's, a Big Ten title (first in 23 years), another top 10 recruiting class coming in, program cleaned up, academic integrity restored to one proud program, etc.
If you think that it's just 2 Sweet 16's, then yeah you're right. ::)
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His quick finish last season was noted...
So was the Big Ten title and sweep of MeatChicken and MSU. ;)
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Chicos....back with a vengeance. ;D
Welcome back hoopachiceagle.
Who needs another beer?
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2 Sweet 16's, a Big Ten title (first in 23 years), another top 10 recruiting class coming in, program cleaned up, academic integrity restored to one proud program, etc.
If you think that it's just 2 Sweet 16's, then yeah you're right. ::)
You're further proving my point. All these top 10 classes, the far and away favorite going into the season to win a National Championship, a regular season Big Ten championship, and the best you can do is Sweet 16? While the school you had "reached your ceiling" at is achieving greater things/has had a better season every single one of those 6 years (this part will not matter to IU fans/administration, just pointing this little fact out)? Yikes.
So you think Indiana fans will be happy if Tom Crean's best year in the next 4 years is a conference title and a Sweet 16? Making that a total of 10 years, I wouldn't be happy with that as a Marquette fan, and Marquette is not on the same tier as Indiana is as a program. If that's what he accomplishes there, he will not be making it to year 10.
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This thread means nothing to me besides entertainment but Crean has been at Indiana 5 seasons, not 6
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You're further proving my point. All these top 10 classes, the far and away favorite going into the season to win a National Championship, a regular season Big Ten championship, and the best you can do is Sweet 16? While the school you had "reached your ceiling" at is achieving greater things/has had a better season every single one of those 6 years (this part will not matter to IU fans/administration, just pointing this little fact out)? Yikes.
So you think Indiana fans will be happy if Tom Crean's best year in the next 4 years is a conference title and a Sweet 16? Making that a total of 10 years, I wouldn't be happy with that as a Marquette fan, and Marquette is not on the same tier as Indiana is as a program. If that's what he accomplishes there, he will not be making it to year 10.
Posts like these are why it's hard for some of us to take the Crean haters seriously.
"All these top 10 classes": Try one in the past four years.
"Far and away favorite... to win National Championship": Hyperbole at best. In today's college bball there is rarely a far and away favorite, and even if there is, it's still extremely difficult for any team to meet that expectation.
"While the school you had "reached your ceiling" at is achieving greater things/has had a better season every single one of those 6 years": Not a fair comparison considering what Crean left behind at MU (3 amigos, Hayward), and what he inherited at IU (a few scholarship players and a bunch of walk ons). It's also arguable whether IU or MU had a better season last year.
"So you think Indiana fans will be happy if Tom Crean's best year in the next 4 years is a conference title and a Sweet 16?": No, and I'm not sure anyone is arguing that. However, based on how he brought the program back from despair, I would bet he does see year 10 in that scenario.
You, and many others are so eager to see Crean fail that you play fast and loose with the facts. Tom Crean was a successful coach at MU, and thus far he has been successful at IU. I don't think that is really debatable.
I, like many others, appreciate what Crean did for our program. I was unhappy when he left for IU, and I was concerned that our program would take a step back. That said, I am now happy that he left, and I wouldn't trade Buzz for Crean at this point. If nothing else, we should all appreciate the fact that Crean had the sense to bring Buzz to MU, which put him in position to take the head job when Crean left.
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So was the Big Ten title and sweep of MeatChicken and MSU. ;)
When is he hanging the banners for the two sweeps?
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If you think 2 Sweet Sixteens in 6 years and nothing beyond that is in good shape and highly regarded by the IU faithful, then yeah, you're right.
Crean inherited the worst situation in college basketball, potentially in history. He had 1 returning player who was WALK ONNN his first year. He won the big ten this year and fell short in the tourney because they came up against a terrible matchup, who also suffocated MU by the way. They fact that you think he has not accomplished much tells me you have very little knowledge of college basketball. Grow up Crean moved onto a Blueblood program where he is lined up to have years of success. Not to mention he left MU with the cupboard as full as possible with the big three as seniors and lazar as a junior. Coaches leave places all the time, its time for you to stop being bitter.
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I know both kinds of IU fans (they run about 40-60 on him). Until late March the 40% who liked him thought we were jilted lovers when we said it just wouldn't happen (3rd weekend). Now that 40% crowd is shrinking. MU continuing to rise sans TC is not helping his cause.
I grew up a huge MU fan and went to Indiana, graduated in 2010. THERE IS NO WAY 40% of people want Crean out. He has had 3 straight top 10 recruiting classes and two straight top 5. The only people who see him as this evil jackass are living in the city of milwaukee.
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You're further proving my point. All these top 10 classes, the far and away favorite going into the season to win a National Championship, a regular season Big Ten championship, and the best you can do is Sweet 16? While the school you had "reached your ceiling" at is achieving greater things/has had a better season every single one of those 6 years (this part will not matter to IU fans/administration, just pointing this little fact out)? Yikes.
So you think Indiana fans will be happy if Tom Crean's best year in the next 4 years is a conference title and a Sweet 16? Making that a total of 10 years, I wouldn't be happy with that as a Marquette fan, and Marquette is not on the same tier as Indiana is as a program. If that's what he accomplishes there, he will not be making it to year 10.
Doesn't prove your point at all, in fact it does the opposite. Do I think they will be happy in 4 years with those results, probably not. That's not what you were talking about...you were talking about the initial years, not the next 4 years. So why are you now moving the goal posts?
You were the one that talked about what had been accomplished, and you left a ton of stuff out. Nothing about the future, now you want to change the argument to the future....big difference.
Decide what it is you want to talk about....stick to it
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Doesn't prove your point at all, in fact it does the opposite. Do I think they will be happy in 4 years with those results, probably not. That's not what you were talking about...you were talking about the initial years, not the next 4 years. So why are you now moving the goal posts?
You were the one that talked about what had been accomplished, and you left a ton of stuff out. Nothing about the future, now you want to change the argument to the future....big difference.
Decide what it is you want to talk about....stick to it
QFT
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Posts like these are why it's hard for some of us to take the Crean haters seriously.
"All these top 10 classes": Try one in the past four years.
"Far and away favorite... to win National Championship": Hyperbole at best. In today's college bball there is rarely a far and away favorite, and even if there is, it's still extremely difficult for any team to meet that expectation.
"While the school you had "reached your ceiling" at is achieving greater things/has had a better season every single one of those 6 years": Not a fair comparison considering what Crean left behind at MU (3 amigos, Hayward), and what he inherited at IU (a few scholarship players and a bunch of walk ons). It's also arguable whether IU or MU had a better season last year.
"So you think Indiana fans will be happy if Tom Crean's best year in the next 4 years is a conference title and a Sweet 16?": No, and I'm not sure anyone is arguing that. However, based on how he brought the program back from despair, I would bet he does see year 10 in that scenario.
You, and many others are so eager to see Crean fail that you play fast and loose with the facts. Tom Crean was a successful coach at MU, and thus far he has been successful at IU. I don't think that is really debatable.
I, like many others, appreciate what Crean did for our program. I was unhappy when he left for IU, and I was concerned that our program would take a step back. That said, I am now happy that he left, and I wouldn't trade Buzz for Crean at this point. If nothing else, we should all appreciate the fact that Crean had the sense to bring Buzz to MU, which put him in position to take the head job when Crean left.
Well said, so many fun flaws with his comments.
One, he has been there 5 years, not 6.
Talks about all these top 10 classes as if there were 5 of them, hardly. I believe there have been two that actually got to campus and they have gone to a Sweet 16 and a Big Ten title with them. A third arrives on campus this year.
Two, they weren't the favorite, let alone the overwhelming favorite. The odds based on Vegas had Louisville winning it all, so only in his mind were they the overwhelming favorite...pretty funny. Louisville at 9 to 2 was the favorite. There was no OVERWHELMING favorite as a bunch of teams were clustered after Louisville at 7 to 1 and 8 to 1 (which, by the way, none of the four teams that were 7 or 8-to-1 even made the Final Four).
This is especially true in a one and done tournament. We have people here predicting the Heat would win the title 10 times out of 10 and they get best of 7 series and they are needing everything in their bag of tricks to make it happen, and they still might not.
He starts off discussion about what few accomplishments he's had, now he pivots to make it a future state article after being show he actually had accomplished a lot.
(http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/goalposts_moving-back.bmp)
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When is he hanging the banners for the two sweeps?
Just hanging a Big Ten championship banner....how long before Meatchicken has to pull their banner down again and roll it up into the archives?
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Goes without saying, unless you went to both schools....I actually know a guy at work that did that (a bunch that went to USC and UCLA, too). In your world it isn't possible for someone to attend UCLA and USC, yet I have 2 folks on my team alone that did that very thing and can think of at least 10 others at the office.
I don't think anyone would suggest it's not possible to attend UCLA and USC, IU and Purdue, USC and Notre Dame (I have a friend with that profile) or any other combination of schools. It's the idea of rooting for both teams in a heated rivalry that's downright odd.
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I grew up a huge MU fan and went to Indiana, graduated in 2010. THERE IS NO WAY 40% of people want Crean out. He has had 3 straight top 10 recruiting classes and two straight top 5. The only people who see him as this evil jackass are living in the city of milwaukee.
Yep.
I live in Indiana and have a lot of friends who are IU fans and they are very happy with Crean.
However if he doesn't get further along in the tournament over the next five years, I am pretty sure those feelings will change.
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I know both kinds of IU fans (they run about 40-60 on him). Until late March the 40% who liked him thought we were jilted lovers when we said it just wouldn't happen (3rd weekend). Now that 40% crowd is shrinking. MU continuing to rise sans TC is not helping his cause.
I also know both kinds of IU fans. The more casual ones love him and think he saved the program. The ones who follow things more closely are often embarrassed by his behavior and see serious limitations in his coaching abilities. Similar to how MU fans felt by year 6.
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Well said, so many fun flaws with his comments.
Two, they weren't the favorite, let alone the overwhelming favorite. The odds based on Vegas had Louisville winning it all, so only in his mind were they the overwhelming favorite...pretty funny. Louisville at 9 to 2 was the favorite. There was no OVERWHELMING favorite as a bunch of teams were clustered after Louisville at 7 to 1 and 8 to 1 (which, by the way, none of the four teams that were 7 or 8-to-1 even made the Final Four).
You're both a little bit right and a little bit wrong. Indiana was the favorite to win the NC entering (and for most of) the season. Louisville became the ever so slight favorite entering the tournament with their strong play down the stretch. IU was not, however, in a cluster of teams at 7-1 or 8-1 behind Louisville. They were clearly the 2nd favorite at 5-1 (behind the Cards at 9-2). Nate Silver also gave a slight edge to 'Ville, but it was close to a statistical tie. With both Vegas and Silver, the gap between Louisville and Indiana was much smaller that the one between Indiana and whoever was #3.
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The F*uck You handshakes are embarrassing enough, but the psychotic behavior Too Tan Tommy exhibited following the Michigan game is a very poor expression of his total fabric. His AD should have publically reprimanded him. Won't be much longer before the IU faithful have heard enough of his hollow rhetoric and pass judgment on this used car salesman, who calls himself, Coach.
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Yep.
I live in Indiana and have a lot of friends who are IU fans and they are very happy with Crean.
However if he doesn't get further along in the tournament over the next five years, I am pretty sure those feelings will change.
Bingo.
As long as he wins, it's all good.
But, "winning" at IU isn't like "winning" at other places.
The pressure is going to crank up, but obviously the pay-off of winning at IU is pretty great.
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I grew up a huge MU fan and went to Indiana, graduated in 2010. THERE IS NO WAY 40% of people want Crean out. He has had 3 straight top 10 recruiting classes and two straight top 5. The only people who see him as this evil jackass are living in the city of milwaukee.
You're right, the 40% number was those who liked him. I will say, my sample is alums who live in Chicago - some who because of family, friends or proximity know about him from MU.
Additional I have a very good friend who went to IU and is from Louisville and now lives in MKE. He has a 2 MU 5 packs to make sure he catches the Cards. He was not happy at all when IU got Crean.
The facts are Crean is a pretty good coach for MU. He's a very average coach for Indiana.
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I think it's pretty clear Chicos would never use "Eagle" in one of his screen names.
Unless he's trying to throw us off....
He's crazy like a fox!
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You're right, the 40% number was those who liked him. I will say, my sample is alums who live in Chicago - some who because of family, friends or proximity know about him from MU.
Additional I have a very good friend who went to IU and is from Louisville and now lives in MKE. He has a 2 MU 5 packs to make sure he catches the Cards. He was not happy at all when IU got Crean.
The facts are Crean is a pretty good coach for MU. He's a very average coach for Indiana.
Go to an Indiana website and post your theory that 40% of the fan base is in support of crean. I'm sure I know a lot more people that are IU basketball fans than you and know that the support for crean is very high. He's not a perfect coach by any means but to suggest 40% of IU fans are in favor of him is absolutely ridiculous.
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I also know both kinds of IU fans. The more casual ones love him and think he saved the program. The ones who follow things more closely are often embarrassed by his behavior and see serious limitations in his coaching abilities. Similar to how MU fans felt by year 6.
Both of these perspectives are correct; they aren't mutually exclusive.
He did save their program, he does act like a jackass at times, and he certainly has limitations. It is possible to recognize Crean's flaws AND his accomplishments. Many of the Crean haters refuse to do that.
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Ahem
Joe=chic=eagle=aloop
Oh, Canada ;D. Three hours from the border.
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Both of these perspectives are correct; they aren't mutually exclusive.
He did save their program, he does act like a jackass at times, and he certainly has limitations. It is possible to recognize Crean's flaws AND his accomplishments. Many of the Crean haters refuse to do that.
Things are cyclical. A blue blood program that has bottomed but that still has the resources and commitment to succeed is the easiest buy low scenario you'll ever find. The more precipitous the decline the better. Tom Crean did not SAVE Indiana basketball. He coached it through what was its inevitable (barring a death penalty offense) bounce back to normalcy.
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Just hanging a Big Ten championship banner....how long before Meatchicken has to pull their banner down again and roll it up into the archives?
Isn't one of IU's proud traditions to list Conference Championships on a collective banner? Crean pays a lot of lip service to honoring an institution's storied past. Living up to those cherished conventions, rituals and lore is where he falls dreadfully short. Character is practiced rather than preached.
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Isn't one of IU's proud traditions to list Conference Championships on a collective banner? Crean pays a lot of lip service to honoring an institution's storied past. Living up to those cherished conventions, rituals and lore is where he falls dreadfully short. Character is practiced rather than preached.
Explain how he has not lived up so far. Big ten championship in year 5 with 3 circumstantially bad years to start it all.
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Explain how he has not lived up so far. Big ten championship in year 5 with 3 circumstantially bad years to start it all.
Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend. It's been too long, really!
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Hoopaloop! Welcome back my friend. It's been too long, really!
Ah is that the other Tom Crean defender?
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Ah is that the other Tom Crean defender?
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6067/B9ID100Z/posters/leo-cullum-would-it-be-possible-to-speak-with-the-personality-that-pays-the-bills-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
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(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6067/B9ID100Z/posters/leo-cullum-would-it-be-possible-to-speak-with-the-personality-that-pays-the-bills-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
[/quote
nice one
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Things are cyclical. A blue blood program that has bottomed but that still has the resources and commitment to succeed is the easiest buy low scenario you'll ever find. The more precipitous the decline the better. Tom Crean did not SAVE Indiana basketball. He coached it through what was its inevitable (barring a death penalty offense) bounce back to normalcy.
This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...
Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)
Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.
Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)
Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.
Ugh!
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This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...
Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)
Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.
Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)
Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.
Ugh!
AMEN Brother
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This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...
Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)
Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.
Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)
Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.
Ugh!
Please. I'll give you he saved MU hoops (though you could argue KO's job was tougher and more important). And he recruited Wade so he gets that credit too. But any solid coach was going to turn IU around. They tied for the Big Ten the year prior and were a tourney team the year he took over. He chose to kick out all the pot smokers who didn't want to go to school. He chose not use transfers and jucos. He chose to build slowly. He made the process long and heroic looking. Calipari would have been in the Elite 8 in Year 2.
I don't begrudge TC for what he did here. I didn't care when he left because it was clear he was done moving up at MU (he only recruited well when he had tons of PT to promise). 2003 was great. 2002 was a ton of fun and many, many parts of 2006-2008 were awesome too. That's all Tom's doing. But Buzz has shown others can win at MU. KO showed that too. We fired a guy who won 100 games in 5 years, we shouldn't commission a statue for a dude who followed up a Final Four with 2 NITs, 2 1st round exits and a thrilling OT game vs Stanford. We're Marquette, we don't hang banners for just anything!
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This is exactly what I was talking about. Crean gets no credit for IU's resurgence because that was just part of the natural cycle. Hmm, this sounds awfully familiar...
Crean gets no credit for the final four because that was all DWade. (Of course the horrible final four loss was all Crean's fault)
Crean gets no credit for bringing DWade to MU because he got lucky with an under the radar recruit that everybody else missed on.
Crean gets no credit for developing Wade because he was such a special talent that would have become elite anyway. (weird that no other team would take a chance on such a special talent)
Crean gets no credit for MU's move to the BEast because that was momentum from the final four, which as previously explained was all DWade's doing.
Ugh!
HAHA! This is too funny! Crean was the only one who had the cajones to take the chance on Dwyane Wade. Oh wait, that's right, none of the big boys could take Dwyane Wade because their conferences wouldn't allow them to take partial qualifiers (which Wade was). Crean had to compete with schools the quality of Northern Illinois to get Dwyane Wade. Thank God Tom Crean has balls :D
And really? You don't think Wade would have developed into a star? Yeah, alright. Mac Brown is the man for turning Durant into who he is. If we can get LeBron's high school coach we should show Buzz the door immediately! Melo better send Boeheim family Christmas cards until he's dead for how he developed him! C'mon man! From day 1 of his redshirt freshman year we heard about how Wade was absolutely tearing it up in practice. Wade would've been a SUPERSTAR weather Crean or myself coached him.
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Doesn't prove your point at all, in fact it does the opposite. Do I think they will be happy in 4 years with those results, probably not. That's not what you were talking about...you were talking about the initial years, not the next 4 years. So why are you now moving the goal posts?
You were the one that talked about what had been accomplished, and you left a ton of stuff out. Nothing about the future, now you want to change the argument to the future....big difference.
Decide what it is you want to talk about....stick to it
The post that I originally quoted said that Tom Crean is in great shape. My response was that based on what he has (or has not) achieved so far at Indiana, he really isn't. Continue on his path and he'll be out sooner than you (and the original poster) seem to think. So my response did look to the future. I stand by it and nothing changed in my responses. I looked at his present results to determine his future may not be so bright. Hard to understand?
The point is that he had 2 lottery picks on his roster and a group of very strong role players this year and he bowed out early. Sure the first 2 years you can understand IU being horrible. Year 5? With that roster? I'm not sure Crean's going to get very many stronger teams, in a year where college basketball was so down, and he makes a Sweet 16. But hey, they got that Big Ten title. THAT'S HOW YOU WIN AT INDIANA!
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Well said, so many fun flaws with his comments.
One, he has been there 5 years, not 6.
Talks about all these top 10 classes as if there were 5 of them, hardly. I believe there have been two that actually got to campus and they have gone to a Sweet 16 and a Big Ten title with them. A third arrives on campus this year.
Two, they weren't the favorite, let alone the overwhelming favorite. The odds based on Vegas had Louisville winning it all, so only in his mind were they the overwhelming favorite...pretty funny. Louisville at 9 to 2 was the favorite. There was no OVERWHELMING favorite as a bunch of teams were clustered after Louisville at 7 to 1 and 8 to 1 (which, by the way, none of the four teams that were 7 or 8-to-1 even made the Final Four).
This is especially true in a one and done tournament. We have people here predicting the Heat would win the title 10 times out of 10 and they get best of 7 series and they are needing everything in their bag of tricks to make it happen, and they still might not.
He starts off discussion about what few accomplishments he's had, now he pivots to make it a future state article after being show he actually had accomplished a lot.
(http://www.jcnot4me.com/images/goalposts_moving-back.bmp)
2 top 10 recruiting classes in 5 years? That's pretty strong. The best season he's had is a Big Ten title and a Sweet 16. That's not very strong at a program like IU. Buzz has yet to have a top 10 class in 5 years at Marquette. The best season he's had is an Elite Eight and a Big East title at a far lesser (historically) program. Honestly, I don't even think about the Big East title we won this year. I think about the Elite Eight and having a chance to go to a Final Four. If I personally were an Indiana fan I would think "We had 2 lottery picks and a couple more NBA players in the future, we won the Big Ten, and we only made it to the Sweet 16. That sucks." Not "Woo hoo! Big Ten champs!" Maybe it's just me.
And you're flat out wrong. The "experts" were asking not just whether Indiana would win the National Title, but whether they would go undefeated! But no, they weren't favorites. Oh wait, they were the favorites going into the season. Sure, you can twist the numbers and hope I don't notice you were using the odds after the Conference Tournaments but before the NCAA Tournament. We were talking about the preseason favorites. But hey, good try! :o
http://www.sportsoddshistory.com/aa_php/main.php?y=2012-2013&s=cbb&a=nc&p=&o=p2#tp
Click on "Jul 1" at the top of the chart, and, shocking, you will find *drumbroll please!* INDIANA at the top! Now try the "Nov 9" button and...whalah!...It's Indiana, It's Indiana at the top! AKA, they were the...are you ready for this?...PRESEASON FAVORITES to win the National Title this year!
But hey, I'm the one changing the argument :D
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HAHA! This is too funny! Crean was the only one who had the cajones to take the chance on Dwyane Wade. Oh wait, that's right, none of the big boys could take Dwyane Wade because their conferences wouldn't allow them to take partial qualifiers (which Wade was). Crean had to compete with schools the quality of Northern Illinois to get Dwyane Wade. Thank God Tom Crean has balls :D
And really? You don't think Wade would have developed into a star? Yeah, alright. Mac Brown is the man for turning Durant into who he is. If we can get LeBron's high school coach we should show Buzz the door immediately! Melo better send Boeheim family Christmas cards until he's dead for how he developed him! C'mon man! From day 1 of his redshirt freshman year we heard about how Wade was absolutely tearing it up in practice. Wade would've been a SUPERSTAR weather Crean or myself coached him.
Seriously? How do you not realize that your two points contradict each other?
There were plenty of "big boys" that could have taken Wade, at least bigger than MU at the time. So Crean either gets credit for finding a diamond in the rough in Wade, or developing him into an elite player. It's one, the other, or a combination of both. Your revisionist history makes it seem like Wade was universally recognized as an elite player in high school (not true), and no other high major program could take Wade on (also not true).
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There were plenty of "big boys" that could have taken Wade, at least bigger than MU at the time.
Please explain these "big boys".
Dwyane was Prop 48. Big Ten couldn't take him, ACC couldn't take him, Big East couldn't take him.
If Dwyane had the grades, he wouldn't have been a 'diamond in the rough'.
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Please explain these "big boys".
Dwyane was Prop 48. Big Ten couldn't take him, ACC couldn't take him, Big East couldn't take him.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong about the Big East, not sure about the Big Ten but I thought they left it up to individual schools. I thought Indiana had a partial qualifier around the same time Wade was coming into MU. I am by no means an expert on NCAA and conference rules, so I could be off on some of this.
Cincinnati could have taken him and they were a top five team the year prior. Marquis Estill at Kentucky sat out as a partial qualifier the same year Wade did, so it seems that the SEC didn't have a rule against partial qualifiers. Hell, DePaul was coming off of a top 25 season, and MU beat them out for Wade.
Why doesn't Crean deserve credit for taking the risk on Wade when others that could chose not to?
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Crean inherited the worst situation in college basketball, potentially in history. He had 1 returning player who was WALK ONNN his first year. He won the big ten this year and fell short in the tourney because they came up against a terrible matchup, who also suffocated MU by the way. They fact that you think he has not accomplished much tells me you have very little knowledge of college basketball. Grow up Crean moved onto a Blueblood program where he is lined up to have years of success. Not to mention he left MU with the cupboard as full as possible with the big three as seniors and lazar as a junior. Coaches leave places all the time, its time for you to stop being bitter.
The situation at It's Indiana was no where close to the radioactive disaster that was Baylor in the aftermath of Dave Bliss. Players murdering each other, the coach urging players and parents to lie to investigators about it, the coach paying the tuition for players who thought they were on scholarship, the coach suggesting the murdered player was a drug dealer, etc... Baylor had murder, extortion, obstruction, embezzlement, fraud, and witness tampering. Indiana was a Girl Scout jamboree by comparison.
Crean likes to portray himself as a crusading knight locked in a desperate struggle for survival against insurmountable odds... If he truly wants to wear the hard earned cape of the valorous I suggest he find the nearest Marine Corps recruiting station. What he did at IU was difficult but far from epic or heroic.
By comparison, Scott Drew took on a Herculean assignment and resurrected Baylor's program but without the P.T. Barnum self-aggrandizement that characterizes Crean's work at IU. Drew had the far more arduous task which he undertook with quiet distinction. Crean should take note and learn the dignity of grace. It would elevate his standing in the eyes of many.
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But Buzz has shown others can win at MU. KO showed that too. We fired a guy who won 100 games in 5 years, we shouldn't commission a statue for a dude who followed up a Final Four with 2 NITs, 2 1st round exits and a thrilling OT game vs Stanford. We're Marquette, we don't hang banners for just anything!
Who on earth is making this argument you are attacking?
Anyone who thinks we should commission a statue of Crean raise your hand.
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Who on earth is making this argument you are attacking?
Anyone who thinks we should commission a statue of Crean raise your hand.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKMy8GgiyiEx2p0DH2s3gPKWz3_FY6fPpqOOwFTZQMyI8MpK5q)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_uCM6LFMghW8ygc-NrdJEAhdK_JpOxVoZlr3I7M9yu7J4lgpH)
(http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/9dd/246/thumb_statues-at-penis-park-5-donghae.jpg)
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(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTKMy8GgiyiEx2p0DH2s3gPKWz3_FY6fPpqOOwFTZQMyI8MpK5q)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_uCM6LFMghW8ygc-NrdJEAhdK_JpOxVoZlr3I7M9yu7J4lgpH)
(http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/9dd/246/thumb_statues-at-penis-park-5-donghae.jpg)
Interesting that you were able to find three quality dick statues so quickly.
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Interesting that you were able to find three quality dick statues so quickly.
Interesting. You see dicks. I see Creans.
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Interesting. You see dicks. I see Creans.
Touche
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Touche
It's all good fun
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Interesting. You see dicks. I see Creans.
Same thing happened to me when I Googled "Coach Tom Crean."
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Same thing happened to me when I Googled "Coach Tom Crean."
I used bong and it returned a bunch of hairy boxes.
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You're right, the 40% number was those who liked him. I will say, my sample is alums who live in Chicago - some who because of family, friends or proximity know about him from MU.
Additional I have a very good friend who went to IU and is from Louisville and now lives in MKE. He has a 2 MU 5 packs to make sure he catches the Cards. He was not happy at all when IU got Crean.
The facts are Crean is a pretty good coach for MU. He's a very average coach for Indiana.
Those aren't facts, those are opinions. Outright Big Ten championship hasn't been won in 23 years at IU and this year's Big Ten was as tough a league as they have seen in several decades.
I think going back to 2009 and 2010 here and reading what I said about Crean, Fred Glass, etc would be pretty theraputic for many here (not you Lens).
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21887.msg239135#msg239135
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg176246#msg176246
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21528.msg233387#msg233387
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21880.msg239141#msg239141
They had a 5 year plan, for which I was mocked here for telling you what it was based on what I was hearing from the very to of the athletic department there. Right on schedule they hit that 5 year plan. By year 4 they were in the Sweet 16 and huge win over #1 Kentucky which could be regular season game of the decade... by year 5 they were ranked #1 for a spell and won the Big Ten regular season title and another Sweet 16. That's about as on plan as you can get, especially seeing how many here said he should be fired in year 3.
They are getting in-state kids now. They are graduating players at rates the IU faithful expect with near perfect ARP scores now. Even the kids leaving early like Oladipo graduated in 3 years, Zeller is two semesters away from graduating. They're highly competitive, fun to watch, off court issues mostly gone (good grades, All Big Ten Academic honorees, massive drug issues done away with, etc).
It won't be perfect, life never is, but many IU fans are thrilled with what happened in the first 5 years. That's why Glass extended him another two years.
What the future holds, nobody knows.
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Those aren't facts, those are opinions. Outright Big Ten championship hasn't been won in 23 years at IU and this year's Big Ten was as tough a league as they have seen in several decades.
I think going back to 2009 and 2010 here and reading what I said about Crean, Fred Glass, etc would be pretty theraputic for many here (not you Lens).
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21887.msg239135#msg239135
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg176246#msg176246
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21528.msg233387#msg233387
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21880.msg239141#msg239141
They had a 5 year plan, for which I was mocked here for telling you what it was based on what I was hearing from the very to of the athletic department there. Right on schedule they hit that 5 year plan. By year 4 they were in the Sweet 16 and huge win over #1 Kentucky which could be regular season game of the decade... by year 5 they were ranked #1 for a spell and won the Big Ten regular season title and another Sweet 16. That's about as on plan as you can get, especially seeing how many here said he should be fired in year 3.
They are getting in-state kids now. They are graduating players at rates the IU faithful expect with near perfect ARP scores now. Even the kids leaving early like Oladipo graduated in 3 years, Zeller is two semesters away from graduating. They're highly competitive, fun to watch, off court issues mostly gone (good grades, All Big Ten Academic honorees, massive drug issues done away with, etc).
It won't be perfect, life never is, but many IU fans are thrilled with what happened in the first 5 years. That's why Glass extended him another two years.
What the future holds, nobody knows.
Chico
I have no insight but you have to admit that there must be some disappointment in Bloomington with how the season ended for IIII. If Al took a preseason #1 and laid a Sweet Sixteen sized egg the natives would have been bitter. The jury is still out in the matter of The Bronzed Beast. The only banners that will do from here on out are national championships. The real question is whether the Bronzed Beast can deliver.
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Keefe....side note....ow is it that little IU is tied with Meatchicken for the Capital One standings? With IU making the College World Series yesterday (first Big Ten team in 29 years), they will pass Michigan and still have an outside shot to be the number one overall athletic program in the country this year using Capital One methodology.
http://www.capitalonecup.com/assets/standings/complete-capital-one-cup-standings.pdf
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Keefe....side note....ow is it that little IU is tied with Meatchicken for the Capital One standings? With IU making the College World Series yesterday (first Big Ten team in 29 years), they will pass Michigan and still have an outside shot to be the number one overall athletic program in the country this year using Capital One methodology.
http://www.capitalonecup.com/assets/standings/complete-capital-one-cup-standings.pdf
Chico
Impressive. But let's face it - IIII has some ridiculously great sports programs. People forget Spitz swam for Doc Councilman back in the day. How does a Midwestern school convince a nice Chewish boy to leave SoCal for the frozen tundra? And to schwim no less! Oy!
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You're both a little bit right and a little bit wrong. Indiana was the favorite to win the NC entering (and for most of) the season. Louisville became the ever so slight favorite entering the tournament with their strong play down the stretch. IU was not, however, in a cluster of teams at 7-1 or 8-1 behind Louisville. They were clearly the 2nd favorite at 5-1 (behind the Cards at 9-2). Nate Silver also gave a slight edge to 'Ville, but it was close to a statistical tie. With both Vegas and Silver, the gap between Louisville and Indiana was much smaller that the one between Indiana and whoever was #3.
The favorite to enter the season before one game is played, one injury happens, etc, etc? That sounds like something out of a preseason poll.
And no, they weren't 5-1, they were a betting line consensus of 7-1 with four other teams at 8-1. Of the five teams that were 7-1 or 8-1....NONE of them made the Final Four, let alone win it all. Damn, all those coaches just suck. ;)
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I don't think anyone would suggest it's not possible to attend UCLA and USC, IU and Purdue, USC and Notre Dame (I have a friend with that profile) or any other combination of schools. It's the idea of rooting for both teams in a heated rivalry that's downright odd.
Not really....many people who are graduates of both schools do it all the time. Some don't. To each their own.
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The favorite to enter the season before one game is played, one injury happens, etc, etc? That sounds like something out of a preseason poll.
And no, they weren't 5-1, they were a betting line consensus of 7-1 with four other teams at 8-1. Of the five teams that were 7-1 or 8-1....NONE of them made the Final Four, let alone win it all. Damn, all those coaches just suck. ;)
Did I miss a significant injury that altered the outcome of Indiana's season? Their odds should've gone up considering they didn't have one and other teams may have.
But anyways no we have to wait not only 5 years to make judgments about the hiring of a coach, but until the start of the NCAA Tournament to determine who had a chance to win it all? Considering Indiana had the 2nd highest odds to win it all at that point and ended up bowing out in the S16, do we have to twist the numbers to "Who has the best odds to win the National Championship following the National Championship game" or what? This is ridiculous. It's plain and simple. Indiana went into the season favored to win the National Championship by both Vegas odds and experts (many of whom discussed the possibility of an undefeated year). They were the favorites to win it all. They lost in the Sweet 16. Pretty simple.
With Marquette being predicted to finish first in the preseason polls in the New Big East, should we be OK if Marquette finishes 10th because what do odds and predictions mean before a game is played or an injury occurs?
You're grasping at air. Expectations were very high. Crean didn't deliver. Not surprising.
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USC and Notre Dame (I have a friend with that profile)
Lenny
So when is your friend going to get an education?
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Lenny
So when is your friend going to get an education?
As you'd expect, he confused about many things, though he is sure that he loves the Trojans and hates the Irish.
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Crean hit a glass ceiling because he simply is not an especially good coach. A very good arguement can be made that he's the 5th best coach in MU history and, had DWade had better grades in high school, he would have been fired at MU after missing the tourney each of
his first 6 seasons.
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The favorite to enter the season before one game is played, one injury happens, etc, etc? That sounds like something out of a preseason poll.
And no, they weren't 5-1, they were a betting line consensus of 7-1 with four other teams at 8-1. Of the five teams that were 7-1 or 8-1....NONE of them made the Final Four, let alone win it all. Damn, all those coaches just suck. ;)
One casino (Las Vegas Hotel and Sports Book) had Louisville 9-2, IU 7-1 and 3 teams at 8-1. The Bovada Sports Book (largest in the world) had IU and Louisville co favorites at 5-1. Most had Louisville 19-4, IU 5-1, Florida at 7-1 and Gonzaga and Kansas at 10-1. The best oddsmaker around (Nate Silver) had Louisville 4.41-1, IU 5.08 -1, Florida 7.87 -1, followed by Kansas (13.33-1) and Gonzaga at 16.67-1. So your "consensus" line is anything but.
And Indiana wasn't just the preseason favorite. I don't know the exact date, but very late in the season, when IU had a 24-5 record, bettorsworld.com had IU at 9-2, Duke at 6-1 and Louisville and Florida at 7-1.
Summary: Louisville and Indiana were thought to be head and shoulders above the rest of the field. One proved they were, one proved (remember it took an incredibly bad shooting game by Temple for IU to even play - and be routed by - Syracuse) they weren't.
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I can't believe this is even an argument. We all know Crean is terrible in the tournament and that he can't make mid-game adjustments, he has proven this time and time again. Also every sports fan in America knows that IU was one of the favorites to win it all, hence the number 1 seed.
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Crean hit a glass ceiling because he simply is not an especially good coach. A very good arguement can be made that he's the 5th best coach in MU history and, had DWade had better grades in high school, he would have been fired at MU after missing the tourney each of
his first 6 seasons.
Perhaps fifth best on the hardwood but no other coach managed sartorial splendor with such aplomb. Could Al have carried off this Euro Trash sunglass look as effortlessly?
(http://www.muscoop.com/uploads/200708/Al's%20Run_0203_w.JPG)
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Crean hit a glass ceiling because he simply is not an especially good coach. A very good arguement can be made that he's the 5th best coach in MU history and, had DWade had better grades in high school, he would have been fired at MU after missing the tourney each of
his first 6 seasons.
I'd say 4th. Al, Buzz, and Hank (in that order). You aren't saying Kevin O'Neill ranks higher, are you?
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Crean hit a glass ceiling because he simply is not an especially good coach. A very good arguement can be made that he's the 5th best coach in MU history and, had DWade had better grades in high school, he would have been fired at MU after missing the tourney each of
his first 6 seasons.
I think this is a stretch. Even without Wade players like ODB, Travis, Steve, Merritt and Robert Jackson would have found a way into the NCAAs. We would not have gone very far but TC was not going to go NIT forever. Tom can recruit when he has PT, and he can prepare very well. He's a solid coach. You could argue that he and Mike Deane are equal in degrees of a skill but Tom's skill (recruiting) is so much more important than Mike's (X's & O's). I'm thankful we have a guy like Buzz who has a nice combo of skills.
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I'm thankful we have a guy like Buzz who has a nice combo of skills.
Isn't this what defines a great coach? Deficiencies in either skill set engenders mediocrity.
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I think this is a stretch. Even without Wade players like ODB, Travis, Steve, Merritt and Robert Jackson would have found a way into the NCAAs. We would not have gone very far but TC was not going to go NIT forever. Tom can recruit when he has PT, and he can prepare very well. He's a solid coach. You could argue that he and Mike Deane are equal in degrees of a skill but Tom's skill (recruiting) is so much more important than Mike's (X's & O's). I'm thankful we have a guy like Buzz who has a nice combo of skills.
Three of the 5 guys you cite did play together without Wade. Results weren't good. Crean may or may not have been gone before the Amigos arrived had Wade not been here, but one could certainly make that argument. No one can argue that Crean gets a look from Indiana if not for Wade.
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Those aren't facts, those are opinions. Outright Big Ten championship hasn't been won in 23 years at IU and this year's Big Ten was as tough a league as they have seen in several decades.
I think going back to 2009 and 2010 here and reading what I said about Crean, Fred Glass, etc would be pretty theraputic for many here (not you Lens).
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21887.msg239135#msg239135
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=17568.msg176246#msg176246
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21528.msg233387#msg233387
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=21880.msg239141#msg239141
They had a 5 year plan, for which I was mocked here for telling you what it was based on what I was hearing from the very to of the athletic department there. Right on schedule they hit that 5 year plan. By year 4 they were in the Sweet 16 and huge win over #1 Kentucky which could be regular season game of the decade... by year 5 they were ranked #1 for a spell and won the Big Ten regular season title and another Sweet 16. That's about as on plan as you can get, especially seeing how many here said he should be fired in year 3.
They are getting in-state kids now. They are graduating players at rates the IU faithful expect with near perfect ARP scores now. Even the kids leaving early like Oladipo graduated in 3 years, Zeller is two semesters away from graduating. They're highly competitive, fun to watch, off court issues mostly gone (good grades, All Big Ten Academic honorees, massive drug issues done away with, etc).
It won't be perfect, life never is, but many IU fans are thrilled with what happened in the first 5 years. That's why Glass extended him another two years.
What the future holds, nobody knows.
www.peegs.com. go there. thanks.
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Did I miss a significant injury that altered the outcome of Indiana's season? Their odds should've gone up considering they didn't have one and other teams may have.
But anyways no we have to wait not only 5 years to make judgments about the hiring of a coach, but until the start of the NCAA Tournament to determine who had a chance to win it all? Considering Indiana had the 2nd highest odds to win it all at that point and ended up bowing out in the S16, do we have to twist the numbers to "Who has the best odds to win the National Championship following the National Championship game" or what? This is ridiculous. It's plain and simple. Indiana went into the season favored to win the National Championship by both Vegas odds and experts (many of whom discussed the possibility of an undefeated year). They were the favorites to win it all. They lost in the Sweet 16. Pretty simple.
With Marquette being predicted to finish first in the preseason polls in the New Big East, should we be OK if Marquette finishes 10th because what do odds and predictions mean before a game is played or an injury occurs?
You're grasping at air. Expectations were very high. Crean didn't deliver. Not surprising.
Uhm, no...they didn't. I don't know why you keep getting these things wrong. You claim 6 years, it was 5. You claim overwhelming favorite, they weren't even the favorite with some oddsmakers, let alone the favorite. Did some experts pick them to win it before one single game was played, of course. Did some odds makers, yup....overwhelming? Laughable. 6-1 odds by one Vegas casino with the next team at 7-1...overwhelming I tell ya. I'll remind you they had the fewest points for a preseason #1 in many years because there were so many "experts" that felt there were other teams that deserved that ranking. I'd also remind you these same "EXPERTS" at the end of the season said Gonzaga was the number one team in the country. LOL. The same Vegas experts that had Kentucky 3rd best odds to win it all. LOL.
You said Crean would be fired by year 4, instead anything but. Look, we get it, but your hatred is clouding your judgment by a ton. It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it. Sorry, too bad.
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Uhm, no...they didn't. I don't know why you keep getting these things wrong. You claim 6 years, it was 5. You claim overwhelming favorite, they weren't even the favorite with some oddsmakers, let alone the favorite. Did some experts pick them to win it before one single game was played, of course. Did some odds makers, yup....overwhelming? Laughable. 6-1 odds by one Vegas casino with the next team at 7-1...overwhelming I tell ya. I'll remind you they had the fewest points for a preseason #1 in many years because there were so many "experts" that felt there were other teams that deserved that ranking. I'd also remind you these same "EXPERTS" at the end of the season said Gonzaga was the number one team in the country. LOL. The same Vegas experts that had Kentucky 3rd best odds to win it all. LOL.
You said Crean would be fired by year 4, instead anything but. Look, we get it, but your hatred is clouding your judgment by a ton. It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it. Sorry, too bad.
That's all well and good but has Tanned Tommy written that check yet?
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/65/6542/25X4100Z/posters/christopher-weyant-i-regret-that-my-poor-choice-of-words-caused-some-people-to-understand-wh-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
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Uhm, no...they didn't. I don't know why you keep getting these things wrong. You claim 6 years, it was 5. You claim overwhelming favorite, they weren't even the favorite with some oddsmakers, let alone the favorite. Did some experts pick them to win it before one single game was played, of course. Did some odds makers, yup....overwhelming? Laughable. 6-1 odds by one Vegas casino with the next team at 7-1...overwhelming I tell ya. I'll remind you they had the fewest points for a preseason #1 in many years because there were so many "experts" that felt there were other teams that deserved that ranking. I'd also remind you these same "EXPERTS" at the end of the season said Gonzaga was the number one team in the country. LOL. The same Vegas experts that had Kentucky 3rd best odds to win it all. LOL.
You said Crean would be fired by year 4, instead anything but. Look, we get it, but your hatred is clouding your judgment by a ton. It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it. Sorry, too bad.
Umm, nope. I said one wrong thing, his sixth year. Then you went and tried to use odds that were made right before the NCAA Tournament to prove that Indiana wasn't the preseason favorite. How that makes sense, nobody knows. I'm not quite sure you even know. But you tried, so A for effort. Find me one place that DID NOT have Indiana as the preseason favorite to win the National Championship (hint: preseason does not mean after the Conference Tournaments, it means BEFORE the season). Then maybe I'll admit they weren't the overwhelming favorite to win it all. When a team is unanimously chosen to win the National Championship and every single preseason oddsmaker favors them, that is OVERWHELMING. If they weren't overwhelmingly the favorite, at least one place would've had some sort of odds with at least one other team favored above them.
Again, how about all the talk about whether or not Indiana would go undefeated this year. I suppose there is usually talk about that with teams that aren't overwhelming favorites to win the National Championship ::). Keep trying.
And please quote where I said I thought Tom Crean would be canned after 4 years at IU. Never happened. It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it. Sorry, too bad. :-*
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www.peegs.com. go there. thanks.
Lame site, no thanks. Besides, I'm a MU grad first and foremost....I just enjoy the predictive capabilities here based on hate and not reality come home to roost. Rather funny. Nothing screams crazy hypocrisy like vindictive fans of any sport or teams in particular.
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One casino (Las Vegas Hotel and Sports Book) had Louisville 9-2, IU 7-1 and 3 teams at 8-1. The Bovada Sports Book (largest in the world) had IU and Louisville co favorites at 5-1. Most had Louisville 19-4, IU 5-1, Florida at 7-1 and Gonzaga and Kansas at 10-1. The best oddsmaker around (Nate Silver) had Louisville 4.41-1, IU 5.08 -1, Florida 7.87 -1, followed by Kansas (13.33-1) and Gonzaga at 16.67-1. So your "consensus" line is anything but.
And Indiana wasn't just the preseason favorite. I don't know the exact date, but very late in the season, when IU had a 24-5 record, bettorsworld.com had IU at 9-2, Duke at 6-1 and Louisville and Florida at 7-1.
Summary: Louisville and Indiana were thought to be head and shoulders above the rest of the field. One proved they were, one proved (remember it took an incredibly bad shooting game by Temple for IU to even play - and be routed by - Syracuse) they weren't.
Let me make sure I have this right, being 7-1 2 days before the tournament is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest of the field when the three teams were 8-1. Interesting. I guess you and I define head and shoulders above much differently.
Back to the original point, WadesWorld said they were overwhelming favorites. FALSE. PATENTLY FALSE.
Yup, Temple let IU stick around and win that game, much like Davidson pissed their pants to let MU avoid a 14 vs 3 upset. It happens, welcome to the NCAA tournament.
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Umm, nope. I said one wrong thing, his sixth year. Then you went and tried to use odds that were made right before the NCAA Tournament to prove that Indiana wasn't the preseason favorite. How that makes sense, nobody knows. I'm not quite sure you even know. But you tried, so A for effort. Find me one place that DID NOT have Indiana as the preseason favorite to win the National Championship (hint: preseason does not mean after the Conference Tournaments, it means BEFORE the season). Then maybe I'll admit they weren't the overwhelming favorite to win it all. When a team is unanimously chosen to win the National Championship and every single preseason oddsmaker favors them, that is OVERWHELMING. If they weren't overwhelmingly the favorite, at least one place would've had some sort of odds with at least one other team favored above them.
Again, how about all the talk about whether or not Indiana would go undefeated this year. I suppose there is usually talk about that with teams that aren't overwhelming favorites to win the National Championship ::). Keep trying.
And please quote where I said I thought Tom Crean would be canned after 4 years at IU. Never happened. It is what it is, but you got caught saying a bunch of stuff that was wrong and you don't like being called out on it. Sorry, too bad. :-*
Lenny already did some of the work for you....I'd invite you to read his post. Again, "overwhelming" is not only false, but patently false in my opinion. In some cases they weren't even the favorite, in other cases the favorite, barely, but with other teams just behind them. When you say overwhelming favorite I expect them to be 2 to 1 favorites with the next team at 15 to 1 (or 10 to 1). Instead we're talking 7 to 1 with a three teams at 8 to 1, to name just one example of many....how is that an overwhelming favorite. If 15 newspapers picked Obama to win the election 50.01% to 49.99% does that make him the overwhelming favorite? Hardly, it means a bunch of folks predicted him to win, but it's almost too close to call. The quantity of the endorsements isn't what makes someone overwhelming, it's how much you're putting behind those predictions...what are the odds
So sorry, you were wrong on 6 years vs five, you were patently wrong on overwhelming favorite.
All the talk about IU going undefeated this year? LOL....who on earth would say that considering the league they were in and the schedule they played? Where are you reading this stuff? That's crazy talk.
This, is not the definition of overwhelming:
Louisville 9 to 2
IU 7 to 1
Florida 8 to 1
In 2014, this is the definition of overwhelming favorite
Kentucky 5 to 1
Duke 12 to 1
Louisville 12 to 1
Florida 15 to 1
Even if you want to use the polls, which I find ridiculous, but let's play along. IU got 43 of 65 first place votes...the lowest number since 2007 and the third lowest in the last 15 years. Most years there is a true dominant team picked by the pollsters out of the gate, that was not the case this year because of parity and all kinds of other reasons. IU had a very nice starting five, zero depth...if they shot poorly from the beyond the arc, that was always going to be a weak spot for them. I actually think their team 2 years from now will be better than last year's team in terms of top to bottom depth.
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IU had a very nice starting five, zero depth
I4 was the consensus favorite and had a disappointing end to their season.
They also had the flippin Sixth Man of the Year in the Big Ten, so I have a difficult time agreeing with your claim of "zero depth". In fact, I4 was VERY deep, but not used well. Some of that is on Crean's usage... but it all started with cutting Matt Roth from the program. Then you had eligibility issues due to shiesty goings-on with some of their freshmen.
In addition to Will Sheehey's stellar play, Remy Abell provided solid offensive contributions off the bench (he's since left). Hollowell is legit and that truth will be revealed.
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Let me make sure I have this right, being 7-1 2 days before the tournament is HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest of the field when the three teams were 8-1. Interesting. I guess you and I define head and shoulders above much differently.
Back to the original point, WadesWorld said they were overwhelming favorites. FALSE. PATENTLY FALSE.
Sorry, you don't "have it right". IU was 7-1 at one casino, 5-1 at several, 5.08-1 by the foremost authority (Nate Silver). Louisville and Indiana were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.
Regarding Wade's "overwhelming favorite" statement, you are both technically right. Indiana was #1 in virtually every poll and to Wade that constitutes overwhelming. You point out (correctly) that they weren't #1 by a large margin, so they weren't an overwhelming favorite in your view. I happen to agree with your interpretation of the facts (opinion) on this, but to me Wade's opinion is wrong but not false, patently or otherwise.
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I4 was the consensus favorite and had a disappointing end to their season.
Will Sheehey's stellar play
Sheehey was magnificent in the Minnesota game. Of course, CTC's in-game adjustment was pivotal as well.
Coach Tom Crean is a master of the in-game adjustment. The Top-Ranked Hoosiers are losing to an unheralded Minnesota squad. There is just one opportunity to snatch victory from the jaws of a hideously shameful defeat. Coach Tom Crean draws up the play and runs through it with his charges. The game is on the line.
(http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Tom-Crean-cheating.jpg)
The ball is inbounded and Sheehey takes an elbow square on the jaw! The force of that hit would cripple a lesser man!
(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/BhQjs00PYqo/maxresdefault.jpg)
Sheehey writhes in agony at the shock of such a devastating blow. He loses all composure and crawls on the ground like a wounded animal. His teammate's obvious concern is palpable.
(http://itsalwayssunnyindetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Will-Sheehey-flop.png)
A distraught Sheehey ponders the injustice of it all...
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/505ec927552e3608820f7341b7a7ee12/tumblr_mkwa9e6LiT1rkz9dao1_400.jpg)
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Sheehey was magnificent in the Minnesota game. Of course, CTC's in-game adjustment was pivotal as well.
Coach Tom Crean is a master of the in-game adjustment. The Top-Ranked Hoosiers are losing to an unheralded Minnesota squad. There is just one opportunity to snatch victory from the jaws of a hideously shameful defeat. Coach Tom Crean draws up the play and runs through it with his charges. The game is on the line.
(http://guyism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Tom-Crean-cheating.jpg)
The ball is inbounded and Sheehey takes an elbow square on the jaw! The force of that hit would cripple a lesser man!
(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/BhQjs00PYqo/maxresdefault.jpg)
Sheehey writhes in agony at the shock of such a devastating blow. He loses all composure and crawls on the ground like a wounded animal. His teammate's obvious concern is palpable.
(http://itsalwayssunnyindetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Will-Sheehey-flop.png)
A distraught Sheehey ponders the injustice of it all...
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/505ec927552e3608820f7341b7a7ee12/tumblr_mkwa9e6LiT1rkz9dao1_400.jpg)
Honestly, if up until that point one still had a lot of respect for Crean, it should have all evaporated.
There is a point where you are a better person/coach to lose in honor, than to win by cheating.
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LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life. We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have. It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".
Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.
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LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life. We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have. It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".
Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.
I agree that teams "sell a charge" but this was materially different. The Bronzed Beast instructed his guys to feign getting hit in the face with an elbow to draw a flagrant foul. And Sheehey did more than sell a charge. He fell to the ground holding his jaw then writhed like a dog in exquisite agony. He carried on the charade all the way back to the bench, even after HE was called for the foul. Disgusting.
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LOL, it's cheating to tell someone to flop.....I'm guessing you have never been to a KO, BW, etc practice in your life. We have taught it at MU for years just as many other schools and programs have. It's called learning how to "sell a foul" or "sell a charge".
Just as football defensive line coaches teach how to sell a hold, soccer coaches teach how to sell a trip, basketball coaches teach how to sell a charge.
You are right, I have not been to a KO or BW practice, the last MU practice I was at was in the old gym pre KO. But as Keefe has already mentioned, there is a difference in accentuating the amount of contact made to help get a call (not just absorbing the contact and moving on). Frankly, contact isn't sufficient for a call these days, you have to get knocked on your ass or no foul...no blood no foul.
It is a completely different case to instruct a player during a timeout to completely fake contact, writhe in pain (when there was no contact) to draw a flagrant foul so you could win the game.
Lets use a business example. I'm sure everyone has filled out expense reports before for travel. One could keep all the receipts for meals, but sometimes you come out better taking a per diem. So we take the per diem as it is far easier and nets us a few extra dollars. Not exactly perfectly honest, but accepted practice (i.e. selling a foul). Now if instead you decided, I'll just make up some fake receipts that I can use to get far more money, you officially have stepped across the line and are a cheat. Crean stepped way over the line with his actions on that play.
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Looking at this play a few times the biggest difference for me is that it appears premeditated. IU was down 5 points so they decided to try to get a flagrant so they could get 2 free throws and the ball. This was not taking a foul or a hard hit and trying to get something out of it. This was trying to make something out of nothing. And it didn't work and it looked pretty foolish.
Really, to me this is trying to cheat. It is trying to take away a game from another team of college students that they had fairly won by portraying something that plainly didn't happen. Its not in the same realm as accentuating a charge on a physical play. It is poor sportsmanship and certainly not in the spirit of fair play.
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Putting your chin intentionally on a guy's shoulder and feigning contact/injury from a phantom elbow (as a strategy) is cheating. Any coach who teaches this is a cheater. Comparing it to teaching good defensive position to try to win those often "coin flip" block/charge situations that occur in the normal course of a game is wrong.
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The Chico defense...
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/59/5998/B1PQG00Z/posters/erik-hilgerdt-it-s-not-cheating-if-everybody-does-it-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
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Is Keefe still claiming that TC said something on the video when it was proven it was the ESPN announcer. That was funny to watch you try to spin out of that one Keefe.
Here's what he said according to the professional lip reader.
"Try to get a foul". I'll emphasize again, "TRY to get a foul"
He then says "That's his arm. It's all up on this"
Finally he says, "Five. Grab, and foul"
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/193654961.html
Happy Fathers Day....and the daily Hate TC Circle Jerk club
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Is Keefe still claiming that TC said something on the video when it was proven it was the ESPN announcer. That was funny to watch you try to spin out of that one Keefe.
Here's what he said according to the professional lip reader.
"Try to get a foul". I'll emphasize again, "TRY to get a foul"
He then says "That's his arm. It's all up on this"
Finally he says, "Five. Grab, and foul"
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/193654961.html
Happy Fathers Day....and the daily Hate TC Circle Jerk club
Are you seriously saying this writer exonerates Crean? In fact he concludes Crean instructed Sheehey to fake the flagrant foul. The vast majority of observers are convinced Crean instructed his team to do exactly what Sheehey did.
The real issue is that people are willing to accept the notion that Tom Crean is a cheat. And that is a statement on his character, values, and integrity. What Tanned Tommy fails to understand is that leadership is 100% about serving others. An Air Force officer asks, "How can I help these men?" A guy like Crean asks, "How can these men help me?"
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Are you seriously saying this writer exonerates Crean? In fact he concludes Crean instructed Sheehey to fake the flagrant foul. The vast majority of observers are convinced Crean instructed his team to do exactly what Sheehey did.
The real issue is that people are willing to accept the notion that Tom Crean is a cheat. And that is a statement on his character, values, and integrity. What Tanned Tommy fails to understand is that leadership is 100% about serving others. An Air Force officer asks, "How can I help these men?" A guy like Crean asks, "How can these men help me?"
You're right of course. Quid est, est. Only a card carrying Crean-0-Phile woundn't be disgusted by TC's "game plan" and how Sheehey carried it out.
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You're right of course. Quid est, est. Only a card carrying Crean-0-Phile woundn't be disgusted by TC's "game plan" and how Sheehey carried it out.
Quaere verum
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Crean sucks
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I have similar anecdotal evidence that says otherwise. My boss, another co-worker, and a couple friends are "IU faithful", and they all speak highly of Crean. They are happy to have IU back in the national spotlight, Big Ten contenders, #1 ranking, top 10 recruiting classes, and above all else a clean program.
That said, both of us can only cite anecdotal evidence. If you can somehow show me a mass movement against Crean, I would concede. My guess is that you won't find it, because it doesn't exist.
Well, I guess it does exist, now, doesn't it...
It's only a matter of time before The Arrogant A55wipe of Athens overstays his welcome in the Peachtree State and gets shown the door once more.