MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jsglow on June 12, 2017, 01:32:22 PM
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Minimalist. Irish old school. The first ever Open in Wisconsin with Holy Hill standing sentinel. Tee 'em up boys. 8-)
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Should be fun. Watch the video:
http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/na-gets-rough-us-open-rough/
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Simple answer, don't hit it der, hey?
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I dated her years ago. ;D It looks like fun. Back story is fascinating.
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Going Wednesday and Sunday, super excited.
Still have crews working on there through tomorrow to try and get everything ready though, cutting it close.
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So the "Blue" lot is right across the street from my office. I got here at 6:45 this morning and there were 24 coach busses around our industrial park road, lined up ready to shuttle fans to the course 30 minutes away. Sometime after lunch they must have swapped and now have most the of the busses at the course because there are only about 6 here now.
A coworker and I were just wondering out loud just how much it costs to put on the US Open. Last fall they brought in truckloads of rock for a couple days to make temporary roads through the open field. There are highway signs that are the same quality as permanent signage, hell they have about 12 flag poles someone had to put in the ground here. Not just these sort of costs but the labor costs to work develop the logistics plans for how ever many years it took. And all I've seen is one damn parking lot.
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I'm excited. I've got tickets for Saturday.
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I clicked thinking we'd have some hot pics of a girl named Erin...and we get a golf course?
:-[
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first par 72 since 1992(pebble beach)
they had over 30 black lexus suv's lined up at the airport waiting for their riders
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Coming up for Friday and Sunday.
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Cutting the fescue!?!?!?! Participation ribbons for all!
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Cutting the fescue!?!?!?! Participation ribbons for all!
Rain. I'll still be a hazard.
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Blimp Crashes at Open!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/06/15/blimp-reportedly-crashes-near-u-s-open-erin-hills/400017001/
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Blimp Crashes at Open!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/local/wisconsin/2017/06/15/blimp-reportedly-crashes-near-u-s-open-erin-hills/400017001/
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3rgXBKslCgSBvgZQbe/giphy.gif#0-grid1)
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Has anyone tried parking in the neighborhoods near the course? I took the shuttle yesterday, and while it wasn't a bad experience, it added a bunch of time on to the day.
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So jsonline is reporting that an elderly man passed away out on the course today. Let's hope all his business was settled, he got to all the graduations and weddings he wanted to, spent plenty of time with his grandkids, and that today was a special treat enjoying something he loved on the last day God gave him.
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4 years ago, I volunteered for the first Meijer LPGA classic. We had a gentleman have a heart attack climbing a steep hill and play delayed for about 45 minutes. If you aren't used to walking, it can be quite the burden.
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Somebody at WashPost sure does hate Erin Hills.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/erin-hills-is-heartland-course-with-lots-of-land-but-not-much-to-heart/2017/06/15/7064a046-522c-11e7-be25-3a519335381c_story.html?utm_term=.c46b027dc8e3
"The jury is still out on this course, and by Sunday night it may be basking in praise. But after one day, if I’m the jury foreman, I’m asking the bailiff to take notes out to the judge to ask about “maximum-sentencing guidelines.”
For months the world’s golf culture has wondered and worried about why the USGA would put the most important championship in U.S. golf, its Open, on an obscure, 11-year-old untested public golf course 37 miles outside Milwaukee."
How dare they play golf in the midwest!
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Although between the blimp crash and the ecoli in the hydration station... that's not a great look.
http://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/e-coli-found-at-erin-hills-hydration-station
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I don't think the article is so much against golf in the Midwest as it is against playing the country's biggest tournament on a course that has never hosted a major event. I don't follow golf, but I seem to recall other big tournaments being held at other Wisconsin courses - maybe one of the courses around Kohler?
I was at the first major event at the new Vikings stadium - a soccer match between two major European teams. They hadn't worked out the access and food service kinks, so while the stadium is beautiful, the event was a logistical nightmare. They had to delay the game almost an hour so people could get through the unexpectedly slow security and into the stadium. Since then, they've had NFL games, concerts and such to work out the kinks. If their first major event had been the Super Bowl.....
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He makes some fair points. But he does it in that old, snooty golf writer kind of way.
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The announcers, who have had some experience witnessing A LOT of golf courses, including majors, had nothing but praise for the course. Not only the conditions, the challenges, but also it's layout being a natural fan friendly locale. One big drawback imho, infrastructure to and from. We will see how that shuttle thing works out. My son got some tix from Marcus corp including a parking pass on the grounds so I will be taking notes as we pass the shuttle areas tomorrow morning
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I don't think the article is so much against golf in the Midwest as it is against playing the country's biggest tournament on a course that has never hosted a major event. I don't follow golf, but I seem to recall other big tournaments being held at other Wisconsin courses - maybe one of the courses around Kohler?
I was at the first major event at the new Vikings stadium - a soccer match between two major European teams. They hadn't worked out the access and food service kinks, so while the stadium is beautiful, the event was a logistical nightmare. They had to delay the game almost an hour so people could get through the unexpectedly slow security and into the stadium. Since then, they've had NFL games, concerts and such to work out the kinks. If their first major event had been the Super Bowl.....
The Kohler courses are all affiliated with the PGA while Erin Hills is affiliated with the USGA. Different governing bodies, different courses. The two really don't cross over very often.
And this is the third time for Erin Hills. It hosted the US Amateur a few years back. That's always the precursor event to an Open. It also hosted the US Women's Open even more recently. Those are the big 3 for the USGA.
Bottom line, both governing bodies are bringing world class golf to Wisconsin.
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The PGA has played Whistling Straits and the LPGA has played a major at one of the other Kohler properties. (Blackwolf Run?) IIRC, that was Se Ri Pak's breakthrough.
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what a blast to the state's economy and pr for wisconsin/wisconsin golf-win win win.
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Has anyone tried parking in the neighborhoods near the course? I took the shuttle yesterday, and while it wasn't a bad experience, it added a bunch of time on to the day.
I met some friends at the course today. I got dropped off at Erin School, ten minute walk. Drove passed some of the neighborhood parking. Some wanted $40, some closer to school only wanted $20. I got dropped off without any issues. From the time they parked at red lot and got to first hole it took them two hours on shuttle. My biggest concern at this point about parking in neighborhood drives is getting out of town at the end of the day on the two lane road. Still considering it on Sunday though.
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I admit it .. I don't understand Erin Hills. No trees, no water. I just don't get it. Ok, though, some people think it's awesome.
What's with the blotchy greens?
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Has anyone tried parking in the neighborhoods near the course? I took the shuttle yesterday, and while it wasn't a bad experience, it added a bunch of time on to the day.
I'm kinda thinking this too. Wednesday shuttles were great, but hearing some horror stories from yesterday.
Leaving on the shuttles Sunday is going to be a nightmare, IMO.
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I admit it .. I don't understand Erin Hills. No trees, no water. I just don't get it. Ok, though, some people think it's awesome.
What's with the blotchy greens?
Trees and water are a course architect's crutch.
Asking for trees and water on a golf course is tantamount to asking for A-1 sauce at a five-star steakhouse.
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The rolling terrain and wind is Erin Hills defense. You don't find natural terrain like it often. It should play easy today, with the overnight rains making it easy for these guys to throw darts.
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One of the thing the USGA LOVES about it is how perfectly natural it is. Almost no dirt was moved to create it. The terrain is natural Wisconsin Kettle Moraine and, as others have mentioned, is an effective natural defense for the course. Plus, given the fauna selection (the fescue), it requires relatively little water compared to some manicured 'lawn'. Golf the way it was invented 500 years ago in Scotland and Ireland.
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The rolling terrain and wind is Erin Hills defense. You don't find natural terrain like it often. It should play easy today, with the overnight rains making it easy for these guys to throw darts.
Let's hope the wind kicks up. That's the expectation for Sunday. And as we all know, she's a huge risk/reward course. Play properly, score well. Spray and shoot 78.
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And let's all remember that the freakin' Ryder Cup will be at Whistling Straits in 2020. Seriously guys, Wisconsin has become 'destination golf', recognized around the world. An absolute showcase for our state.
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Trees and water are a course architect's crutch.
Asking for trees and water on a golf course is tantamount to asking for A-1 sauce at a five-star steakhouse.
Yes. Augusta National is the Ponderosa of golf courses.
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And let's all remember that the freakin' Ryder Cup will be at Whistling Straits in 2020. Seriously guys, Wisconsin has become 'destination golf', recognized around the world. An absolute showcase for our state.
Hoo new Erin Hills and da Straights are in IL, hey?
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Hoo new Erin Hills and da Straights are in IL, hey?
Hey, I only live here. Wisconsin is 'home' forever.
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Scores reminding me of the GMO back in the day.
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Scores reminding me of the GMO back in the day.
At Tuckaway or Brown Deer?
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Trees and water are a course architect's crutch.
Asking for trees and water on a golf course is tantamount to asking for A-1 sauce at a five-star steakhouse.
Bunkers aren't?
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BTW, I like Fox's coverage. I know how spotty it was when they first started covering the US Open, but they have really stepped up.
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Yeah, and could Holly Sonders' implants bee any bigger, hey?
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More rain, more low scores tomorrow. My money is on Fowler.
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Holly Sonders has it cookin', aiianna????
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More rain, more low scores tomorrow. My money is on Fowler.
God, I'd love this.
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Yes. Augusta National is the Ponderosa of golf courses.
Augusta is an interesting study. It's not overly difficult tee to green, but the greens are consistently more difficult to protect the course. As far as golf course architecture goes, I believe it's far from the best. It's the beauty, pageantry and massive amount of investment in maintenance that makes Augusta.
That being said, I'd play there in a heart beat.
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I'm kinda thinking this too. Wednesday shuttles were great, but hearing some horror stories from yesterday.
Leaving on the shuttles Sunday is going to be a nightmare, IMO.
Paid $30 to park across from Erin School. 10 minute walk to the course, and was able to get out easily. Definitely worth it.
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The rolling terrain and wind is Erin Hills defense. You don't find natural terrain like it often. It should play easy today, with the overnight rains making it easy for these guys to throw darts.
Still a big disappointment - one of the easiest Open courses ever.
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I think this one is the USGA's version of a British Open. The R&A doesn't worry about score. They set up the course and let the best golfer win. The score is dictated by the conditions (wind/rain) and the skill of the golfers. At Erin Hills, they had a very long, very hilly course full of blind shots and fescue. I think the USGA was anticipating it being drier and windier. If the tournament had been played a week earlier, the scores would have been different. But it has rained a lot in the past week, the greens are soft, a ball that lands in the fairway is generally staying in the fairway, and it has been a shootout. However, those who have been unable to keep it in the fairway off of the tee have paid the price. Or maybe it was just the high end Nike attire that kept Rory and Jason Day from hitting it straight.
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So did the rain stay away overnight? Friday's round in dry and somewhat windy conditions was fantastic.
The one thing I do love is that any one of a dozen guys can win this thing.
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Still a big disappointment - one of the easiest Open courses ever.
Tell that to the top three golfers in the world
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what a blast to the state's economy and pr for wisconsin/wisconsin golf-win win win.
Wisconsin is open for business, eh?
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Could they at least have real sand instead of crushed granite?
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Could they at least have real sand instead of crushed granite?
They did use sand to start but rain was washing it off the steap faces of the bunkers.
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They did use sand to start but rain was washing it off the steap faces of the bunkers.
Thanks for the info. I haven't had much time to watch, until today and caught them saying they were using crushed granite, which just seemed weird. Glad to know there was a good reason.
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Tell that to the top three golfers in the world
Look at the scores. More like the John Deere Classic.
The Open is supposed to be the hardest test all year for golfers. It was hardly even a light challenge.
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Dustin and Brooks are gonna do so much coke tonight
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Golf is like MUScoop. People just looking for reasons to complain. Going into the week the story was the fescue was impossible and ridiculous and the course is way too long. Then once the tournament gets going the story is the course is way too easy and it should be more of a challenge. And even talking about how a blimp crash is a bad look for Wisconsin, because that's something that is totally in the hands of Erin Hills and the people who ran the tournament.
Not sure why people can't just enjoy the best golfers in the world playing amazing golf on a beautiful golf course. Some people played incredibly well and three of the top golfers in the world had an incredible struggle.
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The US Open will not be back at Erin Hills.
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The US Open will not be back at Erin Hills.
Unfortunately, I agree.
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Look at the scores. More like the John Deere Classic.
The Open is supposed to be the hardest test all year for golfers. It was hardly even a light challenge.
Perhaps next year the NBA finals can be played on 13 ft. rims, and in the World Series they can use a 16 in softball.
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The US Open will not be back at Erin Hills.
Well, certainly not for a very long time. But that's true for all but about 5-6 courses where it's contested most often. But don't underestimate the fact that it could hold 40,000 spectators per day. That's meaningful.
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US Open assignments are funny. Olympia Fields will never get another (nor should it). I hate when Torrey Pines, Pebble, or any regular tour event site hosts. I liked them trying out Chambers Bay & Erin Hills, it should be given some new looks. I don't understand Shinnecock needing to host twice in next eight years. Midwest seems to get the shaft with assignments. I think if it comes back to Chicago, Rich Harvest would be the locale.
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Golf is like MUScoop. People just looking for reasons to complain. Going into the week the story was the fescue was impossible and ridiculous and the course is way too long. Then once the tournament gets going the story is the course is way too easy and it should be more of a challenge. And even talking about how a blimp crash is a bad look for Wisconsin, because that's something that is totally in the hands of Erin Hills and the people who ran the tournament.
Not sure why people can't just enjoy the best golfers in the world playing amazing golf on a beautiful golf course. Some people played incredibly well and three of the top golfers in the world had an incredible struggle.
I had no problem with Erin Hills. The course looked beautiful, it's always nice to have a public course in the rotation, and it obviously was enough of a test for Johnson, Spieth, Day, McIlroy, Scott, Westwood, etc. It wasn't the course's fault that the weather was benign.
As a casual golf fan who rarely watches anything other than the majors - and then mostly on the Sundays - I just wish the leaderboard had been more appealing. I like stars as much as anybody, and there were fewer stars visible than on an especially smoggy night in Beijing. This was a Who's That? of golf. The one recognizable name, Fowler, folded like a lawn chair ... as usual.
Nothing Erin Hills could have done about that, either.
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So jsonline is reporting that an elderly man passed away out on the course today. Let's hope all his business was settled, he got to all the graduations and weddings he wanted to, spent plenty of time with his grandkids, and that today was a special treat enjoying something he loved on the last day God gave him.
Very interesting read about the man that passed away. His wife passed away on Tuesday. He got to watch his favorite golfer (Stricker) come through before passing.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/golf/2017-us-open/2017/06/19/jacobs-19/407134001/
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Perhaps next year the NBA finals can be played on 13 ft. rims, and in the World Series they can use a 16 in softball.
Dude, this was the US Open - not some minor tournament. How wide do you want the fairways to be?
It is supposed to be the toughest course setup of the entire year in this country. It was hardly that.
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I don't understand Shinnecock needing to host twice in next eight years.
Because it is exactly what a US Open course should look like. It has hosted the Open 3 times in the last 30 years and a total of 3 players broke par.
It is a true test of the best golfer - not a cream puff course. Length is absolutely nothing to these guys when the fairways are as wide as football fields.
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I think Erin Hills gets another Open. I think that after the problems at Chamber's Bay on the greens, and at Oakmont last year with DJ's ball moving, and not really knowing how Erin Hills would play, the USGA got very conservative with the course set up. If it hadn't rained, it would have been different. The greens were so soft that all of the huge run offs never really came into play. The greens were only running around 12 on the stimpmeter as opposed to 14 last year at Oakmont. But they putted true all week. And the wind never really howled. I the USGA was expecting a dryer, windier golf course. If they had gotten it, the scores would not have been as good. And in the end, enough big names got their butts kicked when they missed it sideways, that the USGA can rationalize that the guys at the top did what they were supposed to do; hit it straight and make putts.
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One thing has changed pretty dramatically. When the governing bodies consider a midwest location, the championship level courses of SE Wisconsin get considered right alongside and now perhaps ahead of the courses in metro Chicago itself. That'll remain true going forward. Whistling Straits is now on the shortest of short lists for majors. From what I heard mentioned on the broadcast all weekend, the USGA and the players thought highly of Erin. I do suspect they'll be back within 20 years.
And I agree with tower that EH can be toughened at the margin but that this year's effort was to have it played 'fair'. No doubt the USGA believes they have something to work with and will recommend tweaks to the young course. It has two advantages that a landlocked 100 year old course doesn't have. Length and massive spectator capacity.
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/golf/2017-us-open/2017/06/18/golfers-give-erin-hills-thumbs-up-first-time-u-s-open-venue/406788001/
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It's interesting to step back and ask .. who likes hard courses?
I mean, if you're a pro, your mission is to get birdies. You want multiple opportunities to do that. Sure, you don't want mini-golf easy, but you don't want the course to beat you. Reading those golfers' reviews in the JS .. I can very much see that they liked it.
If you're a fan .. well, maybe you like defensive-gem baseball games that end 1-0, but most people want to see homers (birdies, touchdowns, 3-pointers, goals.)
156 golfers tried Erin Hills .. 27 of them broke par. Is there a right number?
(Mind you .. I wasn't a fan of Erin Hills .. aesthetically did not understand it. I like trees, water.)
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It's interesting to step back and ask .. who likes hard courses?
The USGA.
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For what it's worth as a spectator on Saturday, I was impressed by how smoothly things went. From park and ride, to security, to shuttle, to the gate was an easy process. The Merchandise tent was MASSIVE (the cashier told me that they had 5k volunteers at the Open, and 2k were in the merch tent). We staked out a spot by the #5 tee/#7 green/#17 approach. Concessions moved well.
I'm not sure why I underestimated what a logistical undertaking putting the Open on was, but I was consistently impressed with how big it was and how well everything worked.
If "successfully got lots of fans in and separated them efficiently from their money" is a criteria for consideration for future Opens, I'd say Erin Hills passed that test.
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What does work in Erin Hills' favor is that there are not a great deal of midwest courses large enough, and associated with the USGA. It's one of the reasons they got the Open to begin with.
If the USGA liked what it saw, my guess is that they would schedule the next one there soon. Right now they are scheduled out through 2026. And there are no midwest locations on that list. I wouldn't doubt that within the next five after that a midwest location is selected.
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It's interesting to step back and ask .. who likes hard courses?
I mean, if you're a pro, your mission is to get birdies. You want multiple opportunities to do that. Sure, you don't want mini-golf easy, but you don't want the course to beat you. Reading those golfers' reviews in the JS .. I can very much see that they liked it.
If you're a fan .. well, maybe you like defensive-gem baseball games that end 1-0, but most people want to see homers (birdies, touchdowns, 3-pointers, goals.)
156 golfers tried Erin Hills .. 27 of them broke par. Is there a right number?
(Mind you .. I wasn't a fan of Erin Hills .. aesthetically did not understand it. I like trees, water.)
One of the things that stuck me was how adjustable EH was. Here's what I believe the USGA really wants. It wants to force the national champion to hit every shot available in golf, be rewarded for success in hitting that shot, and be penalized for failing to do the same. Many times I heard how a mistake would cost the player one full stroke. EH can be set to play 72 distinct holes over 4 days testing all those skills repeatedly.
One reality is that the frequently played courses provide a deep database. EH now has a track record that it didn't have before last week. I think that led into some relatively conservative set-up thinking so that 'unfair' was never uttered, especially given some recent experience in prior Opens. And the USDA can use that to its advantage going forward.
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I had no problem with Erin Hills. The course looked beautiful, it's always nice to have a public course in the rotation, and it obviously was enough of a test for Johnson, Spieth, Day, McIlroy, Scott, Westwood, etc. It wasn't the course's fault that the weather was benign.
As a casual golf fan who rarely watches anything other than the majors - and then mostly on the Sundays - I just wish the leaderboard had been more appealing. I like stars as much as anybody, and there were fewer stars visible than on an especially smoggy night in Beijing. This was a Who's That? of golf. The one recognizable name, Fowler, folded like a lawn chair ... as usual.
Nothing Erin Hills could have done about that, either.
Can't always have LA and New York eyyyn'a?
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For what it's worth as a spectator on Saturday, I was impressed by how smoothly things went. From park and ride, to security, to shuttle, to the gate was an easy process. The Merchandise tent was MASSIVE (the cashier told me that they had 5k volunteers at the Open, and 2k were in the merch tent). We staked out a spot by the #5 tee/#7 green/#17 approach. Concessions moved well.
I'm not sure why I underestimated what a logistical undertaking putting the Open on was, but I was consistently impressed with how big it was and how well everything worked.
If "successfully got lots of fans in and separated them efficiently from their money" is a criteria for consideration for future Opens, I'd say Erin Hills passed that test.
That's good to hear. I went Thursday and had a good experience. I'll never do a weekend after the PGA two years ago at the Straits. For hosting for the third time, it was a cluster. Long concessions and running out of water and Gatorade on a 90 degree day.
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This recap in the Trib today said that they're soon going to probably announce Oakland Hills for the 2027 but that after that Erin Hills will be in consideration for a Midwest stop. USGA will grade the course on a curve as it was much wetter than they anticipated which gave for softer greens. I think having this benchmark will allow them set the course up to their liking a bit more. What they do love is that the owner was willing to close the course down from last October to public play until the tournament giving them free reign to do what they like. Time will tell but there are not a lot of courses in the Midwest that the USGA can go to now that the PGA doesn't have a relationship with.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-us-open-return-erin-hills-greenstein-20170618-column.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-us-open-return-erin-hills-greenstein-20170618-column.html)
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Out of curiosity I looked up what it costs to play at Erin Hills. $280 for 18 hols + $110 for your caddy. Goes up to $295 in 2018.
Not a cheap round.
Luckily I'm nowhere near good enough to play it so I don't even have to worry about not being able to afford it.
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I have to chime in that Sunday concessions were awful. 20-25 minute lines, ran out of most food and a lot ran out of beer. Otherwise, the production was fantastic.
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I have to chime in that Sunday concessions were awful. 20-25 minute lines, ran out of most food and a lot ran out of beer. Otherwise, the production was fantastic.
No event in Wisconsin is considered a success unless you bring in way more beer than you think you will need and still manage to run out.
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US Open assignments are funny. Olympia Fields will never get another (nor should it). I hate when Torrey Pines, Pebble, or any regular tour event site hosts. I liked them trying out Chambers Bay & Erin Hills, it should be given some new looks. I don't understand Shinnecock needing to host twice in next eight years. Midwest seems to get the shaft with assignments. I think if it comes back to Chicago, Rich Harvest would be the locale.
Not a huge fan of Rich Harvest. The NCAA tournament they just held there was blah, IMO. Frankly, with Medinah being a PGA partner now, I don't think any Chicagoland course should be in the running for the US Open.
I hope the Open comes back to Erin Hills. For years, the USGA has taken criticism (rightly so) for over-managing and messing with conditions to push things to the edge. Look what they did to Chambers Bay, when they torched the place. It was refreshing to see the course play to its natural and intended state, no matter the score.
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Out of curiosity I looked up what it costs to play at Erin Hills. $280 for 18 hols + $110 for your caddy. Goes up to $295 in 2018.
Not a cheap round.
Luckily I'm nowhere near good enough to play it so I don't even have to worry about not being able to afford it.
Cheap compared to Whistling Straits, Straits Course, which "starts at" $410.00 for 18 plus $65 for caddy and a recommended $50 minimum tip for your caddy...
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Here's what I don't get about the scoring was too low crowd. I watched as much as I could the whole week and you know what's fun.....seeing world class golfers play interesting shots well and scoring low. What about the score being low makes it less fun or interesting? Honestly, I've golfed for 20 years and on television I can't really tell the difference between a "tough" shot and a "routine" shot.
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Here's what I don't get about the scoring was too low crowd. I watched as much as I could the whole week and you know what's fun.....seeing world class golfers play interesting shots well and scoring low. What about the score being low makes it less fun or interesting? Honestly, I've golfed for 20 years and on television I can't really tell the difference between a "tough" shot and a "routine" shot.
Yeah, this just sucks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W29HjSUWC4
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Yeah, this just sucks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W29HjSUWC4
Yeah, Johny Miller's whole "Erin Hills isn't Oakmont is it" comment around Thomas's Saturday 63 is part of the detachment between the elites and the common fan. It's a symptom of the "golf should be really hard" crap that keeps people from coming to the game.
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Not a huge fan of Rich Harvest. The NCAA tournament they just held there was blah, IMO. Frankly, with Medinah being a PGA partner now, I don't think any Chicagoland course should be in the running for the US Open.
I hope the Open comes back to Erin Hills. For years, the USGA has taken criticism (rightly so) for over-managing and messing with conditions to push things to the edge. Look what they did to Chambers Bay, when they torched the place. It was refreshing to see the course play to its natural and intended state, no matter the score.
I understand on Rich Harvest, I know Jerry Rich wants it there before he dies, and I think he'd do whatever it takes to get it, but you're right about the NCAA's not being overwhelming.
Pity that Butler won't change it's membership policies, it would have a US Open every 10 years guaranteed. Chicago CC is absolutely fantastic, but there's no way the Wheaton/Glen Ellyn area could handle 30,000 people, that course isn't built for it. I haven't played Butler or Chicago, but back in the day caddied at both in events, always thought they were so much better than Dubsdread.
It was interesting that the USGA cited Erin Hills got a US Open (in part) because of how close it is to Chicago. I think the USGA knows the Chicago area courses (not counting Butler, Medinah, Chicago) aren't good enough. Erin Hills will host again in the next 15 years, with the Chicago market being part of the reason.
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Yeah, Johny Miller's whole "Erin Hills isn't Oakmont is it" comment around Thomas's Saturday 63 is part of the detachment between the elites and the common fan. It's a symptom of the "golf should be really hard" crap that keeps people from coming to the game.
The moldy old pros might think that, but I don't think the USGA does.
Did you see the commercial they were running during the tourney for "Play 9"? It was basically saying, "Yeah, we know that golf is hard, expensive, and time consuming, so how about just playing 9 holes? We're cool with that."
https://www.youtube.com/v/2S9G7lPiV1c
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I understand on Rich Harvest, I know Jerry Rich wants it there before he dies, and I think he'd do whatever it takes to get it, but you're right about the NCAA's not being overwhelming.
Pity that Butler won't change it's membership policies, it would have a US Open every 10 years guaranteed. Chicago CC is absolutely fantastic, but there's no way the Wheaton/Glen Ellyn area could handle 30,000 people, that course isn't built for it. I haven't played Butler or Chicago, but back in the day caddied at both in events, always thought they were so much better than Dubsdread.
It was interesting that the USGA cited Erin Hills got a US Open (in part) because of how close it is to Chicago. I think the USGA knows the Chicago area courses (not counting Butler, Medinah, Chicago) aren't good enough. Erin Hills will host again in the next 15 years, with the Chicago market being part of the reason.
I agree on Butler, but at this point, it seems fruitless to discuss. I don't think the Chicago Golf Club is long enough to host a US Open these days. I think the course is something like 6,600 yards. It is hosting the new US Women's Senior Open in 2018, so it will be interesting to see how the course plays for that event.
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The single most difficult golf course I have ever played was Beverly Country Club. There were thousands upon thousands of trees there ... and I somehow managed to be behind every effen one of them! It was a real grind. I played there at a function just a couple of weeks before Michael Jordan played his first official pro event; there had been talk (laughable to be sure) at the time that maybe he'd try his hand at pro golf. Well, he shot an 86 and called it one of the most difficult courses he ever played. Frankly, I didn't have much fun, and neither did MJ, methinks.
I know there is no way any big-time pro event ever would be held there, let alone a U.S. Open. For one thing, there is nowhere to put the fans. But I'd love to see some pros deal with fairways about a third as wide as those at Erin Hills.
Although I agree with mu03eng that it's often fun to see pros tear up a course with great, interesting shots, my favorite thing to watch is the way the pros get out of trouble. Just amazing.
And the hack in me also loves to see the pros mess up royally in a big tournament, like van de Velde did in the '99 British. As a guy who has had the "chipping yips" forever, I love it when a Tiger or McIlroy chili-dips a chip. And it didn't break my heart when Spieth imploded on No. 12 at the Masters, either - I have 1, 2 or 3 (or 4) holes like that every round!!!
For the vast, vast, vast majority of everyday sports fans, there is no way we could score against LeBron if he didn't want us to, no way we could catch a pass against an NFL cornerback if he really wanted to stop us, no way we could hit a Chapman fastball. But I could stand on a tee against Phil Mickelson and beat his score, even if he really wanted to beat me - I hit a great shot, he misses his a little bit, I roll in a putt, he can't get up and down ... and it happens.
I played Medinah a month before the 1999 PGA Championship (the famous Tiger vs Garcia clash), and while I didn't break 100, I did birdie the signature par-3 hole over the water with a 30-foot downhill putt that probably would have ended up in the lake if it didn't find the hole. It is totally conceivable that I could have beaten a pro on that one hole at that instant.
I think that's one of the things some of us like about golf.
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Although I agree with mu03eng that it's often fun to see pros tear up a course with great, interesting shots, my favorite thing to watch is the way the pros get out of trouble. Just amazing.
Except in the Open. It is a different tournament than the weekly run of the mill goings-on.
I too love to watch the shot making talents involved in getting out of trouble. But there is not a lot of trouble when the fairways are that wide.
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The single most difficult golf course I have ever played was Beverly Country Club. There were thousands upon thousands of trees there ... and I somehow managed to be behind every effen one of them! It was a real grind. I played there at a function just a couple of weeks before Michael Jordan played his first official pro event; there had been talk (laughable to be sure) at the time that maybe he'd try his hand at pro golf. Well, he shot an 86 and called it one of the most difficult courses he ever played. Frankly, I didn't have much fun, and neither did MJ, methinks.
I know there is no way any big-time pro event ever would be held there, let alone a U.S. Open. For one thing, there is nowhere to put the fans. But I'd love to see some pros deal with fairways about a third as wide as those at Erin Hills.
Although I agree with mu03eng that it's often fun to see pros tear up a course with great, interesting shots, my favorite thing to watch is the way the pros get out of trouble. Just amazing.
And the hack in me also loves to see the pros mess up royally in a big tournament, like van de Velde did in the '99 British. As a guy who has had the "chipping yips" forever, I love it when a Tiger or McIlroy chili-dips a chip. And it didn't break my heart when Spieth imploded on No. 12 at the Masters, either - I have 1, 2 or 3 (or 4) holes like that every round!!!
For the vast, vast, vast majority of everyday sports fans, there is no way we could score against LeBron if he didn't want us to, no way we could catch a pass against an NFL cornerback if he really wanted to stop us, no way we could hit a Chapman fastball. But I could stand on a tee against Phil Mickelson and beat his score, even if he really wanted to beat me - I hit a great shot, he misses his a little bit, I roll in a putt, he can't get up and down ... and it happens.
I played Medinah a month before the 1999 PGA Championship (the famous Tiger vs Garcia clash), and while I didn't break 100, I did birdie the signature par-3 hole over the water with a 30-foot downhill putt that probably would have ended up in the lake if it didn't find the hole. It is totally conceivable that I could have beaten a pro on that one hole at that instant.
I think that's one of the things some of us like about golf.
Have you played Bethpage Black? Not saying it as difficult as some of the others you have played, but dang, that course equalized me. Mrs. Reinko is from Bethpage so I have waited in line early mornings as a single and get my ash kicked every time.
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Erin Hills was set up with 50 yard fairways and greens 12 on the stimp meter . If they narrowed the fairways , and made the greens slicker it would have played more in line with US opens of the past. That said the guy who won the tournament is a quality player.
I prefer to see the US Open on the traditionally great courses. If they do a course in the Midwest they should be doing Oakland Hills which has one of the toughest green complexes in golf. Oakland Hills was in the PGA and Ryder Cup rotation for a while but will likely get back in the Open mix.
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Erin Hills was set up with 50 yard fairways and greens 12 on the stimp meter . If they narrowed the fairways , and made the greens slicker it would have played more in line with US opens of the past. That said the guy who won the tournament is a quality player.
I prefer to see the US Open on the traditionally great courses. If they do a course in the Midwest they should be doing Oakland Hills which has one of the toughest green complexes in golf. Oakland Hills was in the PGA and Ryder Cup rotation for a while but will likely get back in the Open mix.
You want the greens faster than a 12?
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Have you played Bethpage Black? Not saying it as difficult as some of the others you have played, but dang, that course equalized me. Mrs. Reinko is from Bethpage so I have waited in line early mornings as a single and get my ash kicked every time.
I haven't, but I hear it is a bear ... and you have confirmed it. I also haven't played the Kohler courses, which I hear aren't very fun for hacks like me!
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You want the greens faster than a 12?
Last year at Oakmont, they were 14. Again, I think the lack of knowledge of the course led to conservative pin placements. The rain and lack of wind led to the players being able to stop 300 yard 3 woods in a very small area. At the historic US Open venues, the courses generally have more tilt to the greens (than Erin Hills had), they are rock hard, and a pro has to fear a 25 ft downhill putt. There wasn't a lot of fear while putting at Erin. And those big run offs rarely came into play because of the soft conditions and slow greens.
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Everything I've read in the last couple days has me convinced that the USGA and the players were very pleased. There seems almost no doubt the US Open will be back fairly soon. If you made me guess about a dozen years. Let's say 2030 for grins.
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Everything I've read in the last couple days has me convinced that the USGA and the players were very pleased. There seems almost no doubt the US Open will be back fairly soon. If you made me guess about a dozen years. Let's say 2030 for grins.
Agreed.
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I saw someone remark that it was nice that it presented every golfer with an opportunity to win the Open, rather than 288 opportunities to lose it.
For all the "It's not as hard as other US Opens have been in the past" talk, the course made a lot of very good golfers shoot above par. Something like 80% of the field shot over par. It wasn't a walk in the park.
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Absolutely right. It punished those who didn't keep it in the fairway. Day, Rory. It rewarded Koekpa, who hit it long, kept it in the fairway, and made putts. As it should be. Everything can be improved upon, but at the end, the player who deserved it won.
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Last year at Oakmont, they were 14. Again, I think the lack of knowledge of the course led to conservative pin placements. The rain and lack of wind led to the players being able to stop 300 yard 3 woods in a very small area. At the historic US Open venues, the courses generally have more tilt to the greens (than Erin Hills had), they are rock hard, and a pro has to fear a 25 ft downhill putt. There wasn't a lot of fear while putting at Erin. And those big run offs rarely came into play because of the soft conditions and slow greens.
Yes, but Oakmont is the fastest in the world, it is what the course is famous for. Few courses exceed a 12, and 12 is generally what they shoot for to be considered very fast and difficult.
If Erin Hills would be a 14 and they had dry and windy conditions, the course would have been unplayable.
Agreed though on the wet and not-windy being the problem.
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http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/golf/2017-us-open/2017/06/19/damato-u-s-open-return-erin-hills-bet/407155001/
"The U.S. Open is scheduled out through 2026, so a return visit to Erin Hills won’t happen for at least 10 years.
But there’s no way the United States Golf Association isn’t coming back.
Not after a week in which players universally praised Erin Hills as a championship venue, the course was in immaculate condition, the spectator experience was exceptional and the whole thing worked well from an operations standpoint.
When I reached USGA Executive Director Mike Davis by phone Monday, he summed up the week in one word: “Superb.”"
It sure sounds like the people that matter (players/USGA officials) had a positive impression. Maybe disgruntled fans don't count for that much?
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It sure sounds like the people that matter (players/USGA officials) had a positive impression. Maybe disgruntled fans don't count for that much?
That's par for the course
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It sure sounds like the people that matter (players/USGA officials) had a positive impression. Maybe disgruntled fans don't count for that much?
Or media that want to get their hot take in.
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Brings up the question. Which is the best golf course you've ever played at?
Probably Arcadia Bluffs or Harborside for me, which I know aren't exactly top of the line courses but nice nonetheless.
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That's par for the course
Except there's disgruntled fans either way.
USGA is taking the lead in marketing golf, Erin Hills is far more marketable than a stuffy tree-lined CC.
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Except there's disgruntled fans either way.
USGA is taking the lead in marketing golf, Erin Hills is far more marketable than a stuffy tree-lined CC.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/u52gRNybAmAy4/200.webp#2-grid1)
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/u52gRNybAmAy4/200.webp#2-grid1)
Come on now, debating things like that can be a hazard. We shouldn't let something like this drive a wedge between us.
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(https://media3.giphy.com/media/u52gRNybAmAy4/200.webp#2-grid1)
Damn. It.
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Come on now, debating things like that can be a hazard. We shouldn't let something like this drive a wedge between us.
There is no fair way to discuss this. To not do so leads to a bunker mentality.
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Damn. It.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/b0cdbb861c61350fa5c6527377aeac53/tenor.gif)
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There is no fair way to discuss this. To not do so leads to a bunker mentality.
I think we could drive the debate forward, but first I need a slice of pizza.
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Man, this thread has me hooked.
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I haven't read much of this thread, but heard on the local Minneapolis radio that there was a serious tick problem at this course. Caddy's and players were apparently pulling 5-10 ticks off themselves after each round. Part of that is somewhat usual for the midwest in June, but that seems excessive.
For those of you that walked the course for the event, did you experience the same issue?
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I haven't read much of this thread, but heard on the local Minneapolis radio that there was a serious tick problem at this course. Caddy's and players were apparently pulling 5-10 ticks off themselves after each round. Part of that is somewhat usual for the midwest in June, but that seems excessive.
For those of you that walked the course for the event, did you experience the same issue?
I had heard that the tick "season" is worse than usual, but I didn't have any on me when I got back from my Saturday there.
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Have you played Bethpage Black? Not saying it as difficult as some of the others you have played, but dang, that course equalized me. Mrs. Reinko is from Bethpage so I have waited in line early mornings as a single and get my ash kicked every time.
Great course. Probably the most fun I've ever had during a round. We played there a few weeks before it hosted the Barclays a few years back.
I'm not a good golfer (typically play bogey golf in the ugliest way imaginable). Started par-par-birdie-par on Bethpage Black.
I don't talk about the final 14 holes.
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I haven't read much of this thread, but heard on the local Minneapolis radio that there was a serious tick problem at this course. Caddy's and players were apparently pulling 5-10 ticks off themselves after each round. Part of that is somewhat usual for the midwest in June, but that seems excessive.
For those of you that walked the course for the event, did you experience the same issue?
Not surprised. This has been a historically bad tick year. Another reason to stay out of the fescue!
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I haven't read much of this thread, but heard on the local Minneapolis radio that there was a serious tick problem at this course. Caddy's and players were apparently pulling 5-10 ticks off themselves after each round. Part of that is somewhat usual for the midwest in June, but that seems excessive.
For those of you that walked the course for the event, did you experience the same issue?
Ya certain dey were sayin' "tick" and knot "prick," hey?
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Man, this thread has me hooked.
I hoping it fades away.
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I hoping it fades away.
Well, look who decided to show up.
(https://19818-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/3f7/bc/cage5.gif)
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Well, look who decided to show up.
(https://19818-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/3f7/bc/cage5.gif)
The sweet redemption on Cameron Poe's face is real for me.
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I had heard that the tick "season" is worse than usual, but I didn't have any on me when I got back from my Saturday there.
I as well looked up-and-down myself and couldn't find any.
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I as well looked up-and-down myself and couldn't find any.
How good did you look? They are about the size of a pin.
wait, wait
Did you check the hole?
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How good did you look? They are about the size of a pin.
wait, wait
Did you check the hole?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/FRRK3vMJ4no52/giphy.gif)
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Ya certain dey were sayin' "tick" and knot "prick," hey?
or tic douloureux better than prick douloureux eyeyn'a? just say yes