MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuMark on February 14, 2019, 02:00:51 PM
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https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/02/14/source-ucla-going-hard-after-tony-bennett-and-he-has-not-said-no-yet/
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Great to have our coach's name mentioned again! Means we are doing well!
Other names being considered at UCLA include former Chicago Bulls and Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg, Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin, Texas Tech coach Chris Beard, Marquette coach Steve Wojciechowski and Houston’s Kelvin Sampson, sources said.
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https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/02/14/source-ucla-going-hard-after-tony-bennett-and-he-has-not-said-no-yet/
3/4 of the way through Wojo's first good season and it begins...
UCLA is not a great job anymore, and I don't think Wojo is a good fit out there. Heck, Stan Johnson might be a better fit given his recruiting ties to the west.
In any case, these reports are only indicative of 1 thing. MU is BACK.
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MU is BACK.
(http://allisonswell.website/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/zebRzLm.gif)
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I could be ignorant, but I think Wojo is serious about building something sustianable and long term here, ala Jay Wright at Nova. I don't see him leaving unless Duke comes calling. And maybe that happens when K retires. But I wouldn't worry about any other jobs in the meantime.
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Does anyone know what Wojo's salary is at this point?
Not that he seems like the type to use carousel rumors to get constant raises, but you wonder if MU ups his pay after this season, especially if we go S16 or better. Maybe not up to Buzz's $2.8 million level when he left, but enough to keep anyone (aside from Duke) from looking attractive.
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Be surprising to see him leave with what is coming back next year, but Crean left with a powerhouse team that were juniors.
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UCLA? University of Cudahy down by the lake almost?
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I could be ignorant, but I think Wojo is serious about building something sustianable and long term here, ala Jay Wright at Nova. I don't see him leaving unless Duke comes calling. And maybe that happens when K retires. But I wouldn't worry about any other jobs in the meantime.
We heard Crean was only leaving for Michigan or MSU. We heard Buzz was only leaving for Texas.
I said awhile back there will be a coach who comes along and realizes what MUBB is....the support, $, facilities, plane, NBA team, new arena, etc. and will understand what a unique kind of situation this is.
I do think that coach is Wojo.
However, I have also heard Wojo speak about his love for Duke and Coach K, so if the two of them asked.....I’m afraid he would answer.
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I could be ignorant, but I think Wojo is serious about building something sustianable and long term here, ala Jay Wright at Nova. I don't see him leaving unless Duke comes calling. And maybe that happens when K retires. But I wouldn't worry about any other jobs in the meantime.
A few years back MU had a dinner for season ticket holders who renewed early or something like that. Matt Heldt was at our table and unprompted he told us how Wojo loves it here and believes he has something special here. Obviously he's not going to tell the players "hey I'm outta here when K retires" but Matt seemed to really think Wojo was excited to be at Marquette.
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If Wojonthinks he has to get MU fans to get off their behinds, he’s in for a treat at UCLA. Terrible tv package, good luck with that.
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Does anyone know what Wojo's salary is at this point?
Not that he seems like the type to use carousel rumors to get constant raises, but you wonder if MU ups his pay after this season, especially if we go S16 or better. Maybe not up to Buzz's $2.8 million level when he left, but enough to keep anyone (aside from Duke) from looking attractive.
Let's pump the breaks a bit, shall we?? This has been ONE really good year in 5..That's not raise worthy to me. Now if he sustains this success for a couple more years in a row..then by all means..
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Let's pump the breaks a bit, shall we?? This has been ONE really good year in 5..That's not raise worthy to me. Now if he sustains this success for a couple more years in a row..then by all means..
The nature of the business dictates he will receive a raise, as much to show commitment as to ward off others. It is not the most practical approach to the world, but coaches are in a unique supply and demand position often dictated by emotions of those paying based on what you have done lately. He will get a raise.
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Let's pump the breaks a bit, shall we?? This has been ONE really good year in 5..That's not raise worthy to me. Now if he sustains this success for a couple more years in a row..then by all means..
Also shows recruits the school supports the coach and wants him there.
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Let's pump the breaks a bit, shall we?? This has been ONE really good year in 5..That's not raise worthy to me. Now if he sustains this success for a couple more years in a row..then by all means..
He be getting more cash after this year...guarantee!!
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He be getting more cash after this year...guarantee!!
Hold your horses, the regular season is important to get to the tourney, to make real money you have to win a few games in the NCAA. Loss first round as a 2-4
seed would be a step back. MU pays great, and really trumps UCLA when it comes to everything else but weather.
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He be getting more cash after this year...guarantee!!
Yep
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Hold your horses, the regular season is important to get to the tourney, to make real money you have to win a few games in the NCAA. Loss first round as a 2-4
seed would be a step back. MU pays great, and really trumps UCLA when it comes to everything else but weather.
Crapshoot...ask Virginia.
He’s getting a raise
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Does anyone know what Wojo's salary is at this point?
Not that he seems like the type to use carousel rumors to get constant raises, but you wonder if MU ups his pay after this season, especially if we go S16 or better. Maybe not up to Buzz's $2.8 million level when he left, but enough to keep anyone (aside from Duke) from looking attractive.
Fiscal 2016: $1,740,964 salary, $34,500 bonus/incentive, $51,111 non-taxable benefits (total: $1,826,575)
https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/390806251_201706_990_2018072615536984.pdf
However, that's simply his compensation from MU. It does not include any side deals he negotiates, e.g. endorsements, appearances/speaking engagements, multi-level marketing sales, buying and selling on Poshmark, etc.
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Hold your horses, the regular season is important to get to the tourney, to make real money you have to win a few games in the NCAA. Loss first round as a 2-4
seed would be a step back. MU pays great, and really trumps UCLA when it comes to everything else but weather.
Don't be so sure about that. While MU certainly is having more success than UCLA in basketball, UCLA is an elite university. Somebody will eventually get it going there in basketball. Boosters are very active and more money is coming for recruiting etc. While currently down, they are fully capable of getting off the mat.
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Don't be so sure about that. While MU certainly is having more success than UCLA in basketball, UCLA is an elite university. Somebody will eventually get it going there in basketball. Boosters are very active and more money is coming for recruiting etc. While currently down, they are fully capable of getting off the mat.
UCLA and the entire PAC 12 has fundamental issue right now with brand, money and exposure. Mike Leach properly raises a stink about it earlier this week. The PAC 12 network is the ONLY college network to LOSE households the last three years. Only one. They are losing distribution which means they are losing money, mind share and brad perception.
They have a mess on their hands right now. Ton of talent in California, but kids want to be seen on TV and the PAC 12 is not delivering for them.
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Crapshoot...ask Virginia.
He’s getting a raise
lol...chalking up UVA's colossal failure last year to bad luck is hilarious.
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Why is his name even on that list? this stuff is just annoying as it seems to imply Marquette is some mid major stepping stone program that clearly should be left if some power 5 comes calling..Just non-sense. Why are we also thrown into the same pool of lesser programs like Cincy and Houston? With those programs entertaining UCLA would make sense, But not MUs program. Better in every aspect. Wojo to UCLA would be at best a lateral move.
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Why is his name even on that list? this stuff is just annoying as it seems to imply Marquette is some mid major stepping stone program that clearly should be left if some power 5 comes calling..Just non-sense. Why are we also thrown into the same pool of lesser programs like Cincy and Houston? With those programs entertaining UCLA would make sense, But not MUs program. Better in every aspect. Wojo to UCLA would be at best a lateral move.
Based on MUs coaching history, we are a stepping stone. Or at least not yet a destination job.
And that's okay.
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Crapshoot...ask Virginia.
He’s getting a raise
Agree. Regardless of how the postseason goes, I will be shocked and disappointed if Wojo doesn't get a big raise.
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lol...chalking up UVA's colossal failure last year to bad luck is hilarious.
Who said anything about luck, good or bad variety? In a one game scenario anything can happen. Anything. The best team doesn’t always win, and the best team often doesn’t win the championship. Wojo is getting a raise for putting us in position to play for runs in the NCAA tournament, but success there requires a lot of things to happen.
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WOJO just needs to ask Crean.....
These days .....Crean says.....Should not have left Marquette......Because the grass is not greener on the other side.....
First time he has a team that struggles......He will looking at the Stars on the Hollywood walk of Fame....
Same deal as Indiana.....Just warmer and sunnier......
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According to thus article. We are a Mid-Major and Cleary Wojo should leave.
https://dailybruin.com/2019/01/25/un-connon-opinions-best-bet-for-mens-basketball-coach-might-be-overlooked-amid-lackluster-prospects/
Why do I do this to myself lol.
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Why is his name even on that list? this stuff is just annoying as it seems to imply Marquette is some mid major stepping stone program that clearly should be left if some power 5 comes calling..Just non-sense. Why are we also thrown into the same pool of lesser programs like Cincy and Houston? With those programs entertaining UCLA would make sense, But not MUs program. Better in every aspect. Wojo to UCLA would be at best a lateral move.
Playing the ignorance card again, I see.
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Playing the ignorance card again, I see.
ok BARELY lesser program Cincy.. you know f you fine. Equal program Cincy.. :)
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WOJO just needs to ask Crean.....
These days .....Crean says.....Should not have left Marquette......Because the grass is not greener on the other side.....
First time he has a team that struggles......He will looking at the Stars on the Hollywood walk of Fame....
Same deal as Indiana.....Just warmer and sunnier......
yeah but, as soon as the rumor goes out that crean is signing, half the team will be running to get their transfer papers. school better have a lot of patience
hey! what about La Var "just give me the" ball ;D
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Lifestyle is totally different in La,La Land, brother lives in a mobile home for 2.6M, Wojo’s House is maybe a 1 million to 1.3M, which is very nice. For that kind of money in LA you now get a dump. Unless there throwing in a 5M dollar house, not worth the move. Pauley is a dump compared to the Fiserv as well.
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Was talking to a parent of a kid being recruited by MU. The Parent loves MU but was worried that Wojo would leave for Duke to replace Coack K. I guess the UCLA rumors will just add fuel to that fire.
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Was talking to a parent of a kid being recruited by MU. The Parent loves MU but was worried that Wojo would leave for Duke to replace Wojo. I guess the UCLA rumors will just add fuel to that fire.
Wojo is going to replace himself at duke. Interesting
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Fiscal 2016: $1,740,964 salary, $34,500 bonus/incentive, $51,111 non-taxable benefits (total: $1,826,575)
https://apps.irs.gov/pub/epostcard/cor/390806251_201706_990_2018072615536984.pdf
However, that's simply his compensation from MU. It does not include any side deals he negotiates, e.g. endorsements, appearances/speaking engagements, multi-level marketing sales, buying and selling on Poshmark, etc.
Not to mention his Uber driving in the off-season.
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Lifestyle is totally different in La,La Land, brother lives in a mobile home for 2.6M, Wojo’s House is maybe a 1 million to 1.3M, which is very nice. For that kind of money in LA you now get a dump. Unless there throwing in a 5M dollar house, not worth the move. Pauley is a dump compared to the Fiserv as well.
1.3M will get you get you something nice if you are willing to drive. By UCLA’s campus, it will be average at best. It’s why people are fleeing the state in droves.
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Great to have our coach's name mentioned again! Means we are doing well!
Other names being considered at UCLA include former Chicago Bulls and Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg, Cincinnati coach Mick Cronin, Texas Tech coach Chris Beard, Marquette coach Steve Wojciechowski and Houston’s Kelvin Sampson, sources said.
Oh for Chrissakes man not this!
It took me 5 years to fully warm up to the guy and now this stuff. Why must you torment me coaching carousel, why?
PS- I give Wojo an A so far this yr, and I’m sure I’m not alone. I give Markus major credit for possibly saving his job at MU, as I think he should as well. Yes I know he’s recruited a lot of other good players as well but y’all know what I’m saying.
Besides all that he just seems like a different man this season. There are so many things I find myself liking about him more and more. I guess winning will do that, it cures all angers/stresses. He just seems so much more composed, calm, collected while still showing that fire. I think it resonates with his team, I don’t sense that unhinged stress that I’ve sensed in the past.
He’s got guys that don’t get a single minute of action for a full month going out there and busting their chops for him. Guys that are out for the season completely in the game and appearing to be best friends w the walkons. It’s just great to see.
Stan deserves a big honorable mention here. He brought Markus into the program and the rapport just seems impeccable every step of the way. I’ll never forget the way he hugged Markus after Marquette pulled out a tough one over UL at the Barclays- my wife actually noticed because I pointed out who stan was at the game because his family was on the bus next to us. That embrace seems like it lifted Markus up so much going forward
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Was talking to a parent of a kid being recruited by MU. The Parent loves MU but was worried that Wojo would leave for Duke to replace Wojo. I guess the UCLA rumors will just add fuel to that fire.
If I were Duke I would go after Brad Stevens or someone with a track record. Tough to follow a legend unless you are a legend already. Stew Morrill baby!!
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Wojo is going to replace himself at duke. Interesting
Good catch Johnny. Correction Noted.
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Oh for Chrissakes man not this!
It took me 5 years to fully warm up to the guy and now this stuff. Why must you torment me coaching carousel, why?
PS- I give Wojo an A so far this yr, and I’m sure I’m not alone. I give Markus major credit for possibly saving his job at MU, as I think he should as well. Yes I know he’s recruited a lot of other good players as well but y’all know what I’m saying.
Besides all that he just seems like a different man this season. There are so many things I find myself liking about him more and more. I guess winning will do that, it cures all angers/stresses. He just seems so much more composed, calm, collected while still showing that fire. I think it resonates with his team, I don’t sense that unhinged stress that I’ve sensed in the past.
He’s got guys that don’t get a single minute of action for a full month going out there and busting their chops for him. Guys that are out for the season completely in the game and appearing to be best friends w the walkons. It’s just great to see.
Stan deserves a big honorable mention here. He brought Markus into the program and the rapport just seems impeccable every step of the way. I’ll never forget the way he hugged Markus after Marquette pulled out a tough one over UL at the Barclays- my wife actually noticed because I pointed out who stan was at the game because his family was on the bus next to us. That embrace seems like it lifted Markus up so much going forward
Mind games
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I immediately thought of Wojo when the UCLA job opened up. I have no idea, if either side is really interested. However, I think any coach following Coach K at Duke is doomed to failure. Much better to go to a once elite that is currently down, than to replace a legend like K.
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Flying SWA blows donkey balls, aina?
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Mind games
I’d call it motivation to get someone to compete and play up to their potential.
Potatoes potahtoes
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This came up in a previous thread, I think based off of the radio show where Coach K called in. Based on that conversation, I think that there are certainly reasons why Wojo would only seriously consider Duke and a few other programs.
1. He clearly adores Coach K, and I think Coach K has provided a pretty good model of how to be successful--stick with one place and develop excellence there.
2. Coach K clearly admired Marquette, and saw some of the same positives that Duke had at Marquette. Coach K made some comments that Wojo had received previous HC offers, but that Marquette was the first that he really thought was the right opportunity and fit for Wojo.
3. Look where a lot of Coach K's assistants have taken jobs at--Notre Dame, Stanford, Northwestern, Seton Hall, Harvard. They are mostly private schools, and most don't have traditionally dominant football programs; not dissimilar to Duke, or Marquette for that matter.
4. Tradition also seems to matter to both Coach K and Wojo, and Marquette was attractive for that reason.
5. Hand-in-hand with #4 is a good track record of fan support--I think with the rebuilding this is something that is still coming back, but the ability to fill at 17,000 person arena counts for something.
6. Values matter. Family matters.
All told, after hearing that interview I felt it is much more likely that as long as things are going well at MU there are only a few programs that Wojo might bolt for, focusing mostly on prestigious private schools with strong basketball traditions and good support from the administration and community. Beyond Duke, there are only a few places that really tick off those boxes.
Now, if the situation here sours, or he feels like he has hit a ceiling, then maybe he'll start getting anxious. But, as long as he feels like he can keep bringing in top talent and has good support to run his program, I think he'll stick around for a while--until Duke (or maybe a handful of other places) calls.
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You look at all the great coaches, once they left, it is almost impossible to keep those high standards. Hank, many replacements before Cal, Wooden, Knight all seem to fail. Better to stay put if you have a good thing going. 2020 will tell Wojo if he can recruit a handful of top 100 kids.
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You look at all the great coaches, once they left, it is almost impossible to keep those high standards. Hank, many replacements before Cal, Wooden, Knight all seem to fail. Better to stay put if you have a good thing going. 2020 will tell Wojo if he can recruit a handful of top 100 kids.
Harder to land recruits when rumours that the coach could bolt any year a circling around. Just a sheet show
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You look at all the great coaches, once they left, it is almost impossible to keep those high standards. Hank, many replacements before Cal, Wooden, Knight all seem to fail. Better to stay put if you have a good thing going. 2020 will tell Wojo if he can recruit a handful of top 100 kids.
shame he's never shown us a handful of top 100 recruits yet. Sandy, Henry, Haanif, Markus, Sam, Brendan, Joey, Cain ( not unanimous but still according to 247 he was no 100)
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Hmm....surprised Jay Wright was not on that list with 2 NCs under his belt if UCLA is serious about hiring a top coach. Clickbait article IMHO.
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Hmm....surprised Jay Wright was not on that list with 2 NCs under his belt if UCLA is serious about hiring a top coach. Clickbait article IMHO.
They tried last time with Jay and he said no.
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Hmm....surprised Jay Wright was not on that list with 2 NCs under his belt if UCLA is serious about hiring a top coach. Clickbait article IMHO.
Jay Wright? Cmon
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Philadelphia is home for Wright......only place he'd leave Nova for is the NBA.....so far he hasn't shown interest in jumping there .....at least not yet.
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shame he's never shown us a handful of top 100 recruits yet. Sandy, Henry, Haanif, Markus, Sam, Brendan, Joey, Cain ( not unanimous but still according to 247 he was no 100)
You need to recruit 4 really good players, you have one right now, on 12 players, let’s see how he closes. A good program has to keep growing, Crean had trouble doing that, hopefully Wojo can keep the run going.
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nm
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1.3M will get you get you something nice if you are willing to drive. By UCLA’s campus, it will be average at best. It’s why people are fleeing the state in droves.
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.
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lol...chalking up UVA's colossal failure last year to bad luck is hilarious.
Exactly. They lost by freakin' 20 to a 16. Next thing you know Chico will be saying it was a "bad match up", when in actuality it was the biggest head scratcher in the history of the tournament - by a long, long shot.
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Exactly. They lost by freakin' 20 to a 16. Next thing you know Chico will be saying it was a "bad match up", when in actuality it was the biggest head scratcher in the history of the tournament - by a long, long shot.
It looked like a tall athletic strong ACC team with nba guys vs a high school varsity team yet they still got smoked. Truly bizzare
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This came up in a previous thread, I think based off of the radio show where Coach K called in. Based on that conversation, I think that there are certainly reasons why Wojo would only seriously consider Duke and a few other programs.
1. He clearly adores Coach K, and I think Coach K has provided a pretty good model of how to be successful--stick with one place and develop excellence there.
2. Coach K clearly admired Marquette, and saw some of the same positives that Duke had at Marquette. Coach K made some comments that Wojo had received previous HC offers, but that Marquette was the first that he really thought was the right opportunity and fit for Wojo.
3. Look where a lot of Coach K's assistants have taken jobs at--Notre Dame, Stanford, Northwestern, Seton Hall, Harvard. They are mostly private schools, and most don't have traditionally dominant football programs; not dissimilar to Duke, or Marquette for that matter.
4. Tradition also seems to matter to both Coach K and Wojo, and Marquette was attractive for that reason.
5. Hand-in-hand with #4 is a good track record of fan support--I think with the rebuilding this is something that is still coming back, but the ability to fill at 17,000 person arena counts for something.
6. Values matter. Family matters.
All told, after hearing that interview I felt it is much more likely that as long as things are going well at MU there are only a few programs that Wojo might bolt for, focusing mostly on prestigious private schools with strong basketball traditions and good support from the administration and community. Beyond Duke, there are only a few places that really tick off those boxes.
Now, if the situation here sours, or he feels like he has hit a ceiling, then maybe he'll start getting anxious. But, as long as he feels like he can keep bringing in top talent and has good support to run his program, I think he'll stick around for a while--until Duke (or maybe a handful of other places) calls.
This +1000
The only thing I would add is that all of the ex-Duke assistants you mentioned have done what K did: stayed in one place for a long time and built a program. If Wojo learned the same lessons from K as Brey and others did, he wants to be here for a loooonnng time.
Mike Brey, Notre Dame 19 years
Johnny Dawkins, Stanford 8 years (fired, now at UCF)
Tommy Amaker, Seton Hall 4 years, Michigan 7 years (fired), Harvard 12 years
Chris Collins, Northwestern 6 years
None of those guys left their programs willingly except Dawkins at Seton Hall. They are all focused on long term success in one place.
Wojo is not going to UCLA
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Jay Wright is already established has one of the nest college coaches out there. Going to the nba would hurt is legacy in my eyes. He has a chance to go down as one of the best college b ball coaches ever. He could be the next coach k developing the next "Duke". The nick saban of college basketball etc.
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Based on MUs coaching history, we are a stepping stone. Or at least not yet a destination job.
And that's okay.
And every one of them (with maybe the exception being Buzz...jury still out) has seen dormant, brown-er grass, and their careers took a step down. All our coaches showed good judgment in pursuing the MU job, and relatively bad judgment in leaving it.
Wojo just may be different. Or not. Based on MUs coaching history, we will be more than fine. Wojo is about as close to a perfect-fit-to-institution as it gets. I think both parties recognize it.
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I cannot see Wojo being interested in the UCLA job if he intends to or expects to be given the Duke job. Coach K is good for another 5 years. Going to UCLA for such a short term makes zero sense. Especially given the success that he will most assuredly enjoy the next few years at MU
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Exactly. They lost by freakin' 20 to a 16. Next thing you know Chico will be saying it was a "bad match up", when in actuality it was the biggest head scratcher in the history of the tournament - by a long, long shot.
Nope, they just got beat. Just like DePaul beat Buzz’s team, just like Crean’s teams lost to some opponents they shouldn’t have. It happens in 1 game and advance situations. This isn’t best of 7, or even best of 3. Mercer beating Duke....could play 100 times and Duke wins 97 of them, but all it takes is one.
Not sure why this is hard for you to this day to process. Anything can happen in the NCAA tournament...anything...the best team doesn’t always win. You think if UVA played UMBC 10 times they wouldn’t win 9 of them? Your gambling friends will say that. KenPom will say that, every expert will say that, but it doesn’t prevent it from still being a possibility.
Nothing to do with bad luck, bad matchup...sometimes a team doesn’t play well. Pretty simple.
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And every one of them (with maybe the exception being Buzz...jury still out) has seen dormant, brown-er grass, and their careers took a step down. All our coaches showed good judgment in pursuing the MU job, and relatively bad judgment in leaving it.
Wojo just may be different. Or not. Based on MUs coaching history, we will be more than fine. Wojo is about as close to a perfect-fit-to-institution as it gets. I think both parties recognize it.
It is there drive to win a national title, which they didn’t believe was possible at MU but possible elsewhere. That’s typically the situation.
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It looked like a tall athletic strong ACC team with nba guys vs a high school varsity team yet they still got smoked. Truly bizzare
Because that can happen in any one game scenario. We lost to a 1-17 DePaul team...we were their 1 win. It happens.
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Right now - and probably for the next 10 years - MU is a better program in a better position and in a better conference than UCLA.
Plus, I've read that UCLA flies commercial for recruiting and as a team. Something about being employees of the People's Republic of California.
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Right now - and probably for the next 10 years - MU is a better program in a better position and in a better conference than UCLA.
Plus, I've read that UCLA flies commercial for recruiting and as a team. Something about being employees of the People's Republic of California.
They fly charter now for most, but not all.
A lot can happen in 10 years, I would call that forecast a big stretch.
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Wojo will get nice raise and extension after this season.
Of course, that guarantees Marquette nothing. He could leave 2 hours after he signs the extension, but it usually does keep a coach around for awhile, and tells recruits "Wojo's staying."
Assuming Jay Wright loves it at Nova, he has absolutely no reason to ever leave. Wojo could find the same life-long love at Marquette, especially if he wins a national title here.
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Because that can happen in any one game scenario. We lost to a 1-17 DePaul team...we were their 1 win. It happens.
Thing is, it’s happened only one time in history in that scenario of seeding
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Thing is, it’s happened only one time in history in that scenario of seeding
Less than a year ago. A 2 has beaten a 15 several times, a 3 over a 14 even more. So on and so forth. Anything can happen in a 1 game situation.
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Less than a year ago. A 2 has beaten a 15 several times, a 3 over a 14 even more. So on and so forth. Anything can happen in a 1 game situation.
You must be hard headed. As I stated it’s happened one time in history in a 1v16 situation. So yea anything could happen in a 1 game situation, 1 time in over 100 tries.
You’ve had a relentless day, it’s almost impressive
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WOJO just needs to ask Crean.....
These days .....Crean says.....Should not have left Marquette......Because the grass is not greener on the other side.....
First time he has a team that struggles......He will looking at the Stars on the Hollywood walk of Fame....
Same deal as Indiana.....Just warmer and sunnier......
This is either Dodds or Mazos
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This is either Dodds or Mazos
What....makes....you....so....sure....about....
That....
?....
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Burger is vikiingsrlosers.
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Wojo is getting a raise, its a #DoneDeal
I'm not going to project what Wojo does because people are, well, people and do their own thing that may not be predictable (see Williams, Brent). I think the UCLA job is currently a low level job then MU right now simply because there is a toxic mix of win now mentality combined with significant headwinds in the form of negative perception of PAC12, media exposure, and funding. If Wojo is keeping his eye on the Duke prize, that doesn't feel like a logical move to make, especially when you factor in that next years team, assuming no major changes, will be better than this years team. I'd guess the clock on Coach K is the next 4-7 years.....not sure you move to LA to take on that monster rebuild when in 4 years Duke may come looking.
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Wojo is getting a raise, its a #DoneDeal
I'm not going to project what Wojo does because people are, well, people and do their own thing that may not be predictable (see Williams, Brent). I think the UCLA job is currently a low level job then MU right now simply because there is a toxic mix of win now mentality combined with significant headwinds in the form of negative perception of PAC12, media exposure, and funding. If Wojo is keeping his eye on the Duke prize, that doesn't feel like a logical move to make, especially when you factor in that next years team, assuming no major changes, will be better than this years team. I'd guess the clock on Coach K is the next 4-7 years.....not sure you move to LA to take on that monster rebuild when in 4 years Duke may come looking.
He's also totally in sync with Bill and Mike. As others have said, UCLA clickbait. They are going to struggle to find a quality replacement.
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He's also totally in sync with Bill and Mike. As others have said, UCLA clickbait. They are going to struggle to find a quality replacement.
Correct, regardless of how we got here or the process.....the fact that the top of the org chart is a relatively well oiled machine as opposed to the raging $hit$how it's been in the past has to people with confidence and we are starting to see that manifest itself on the court.
Have to say, I haven't been this confident in the direction of the program in like 10 years.
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Obnoxious we were called mid major. Twitter army attack!
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Correct, regardless of how we got here or the process.....the fact that the top of the org chart is a relatively well oiled machine as opposed to the raging $hit$how it's been in the past has to people with confidence and we are starting to see that manifest itself on the court.
Have to say, I haven't been this confident in the direction of the program in like 10 years.
Only 10? Try much longer than that. You and I both know the difference of opinion Williams had with essentially all his superiors, almost from day 1. They bit their tongue because of the success. Some will argue they sold their soul. Ultimately, there was a threshold and fortunately we didn't pay a buyout. Crean's relationship was 'different' but also somewhat challenged. And before him, Deane simply didn't understand that he was expected to actually win.
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Nope, they just got beat. Just like DePaul beat Buzz’s team, just like Crean’s teams lost to some opponents they shouldn’t have. It happens in 1 game and advance situations. This isn’t best of 7, or even best of 3. Mercer beating Duke....could play 100 times and Duke wins 97 of them, but all it takes is one.
Not sure why this is hard for you to this day to process. Anything can happen in the NCAA tournament...anything...the best team doesn’t always win. You think if UVA played UMBC 10 times they wouldn’t win 9 of them? Your gambling friends will say that. KenPom will say that, every expert will say that, but it doesn’t prevent it from still being a possibility.
Nothing to do with bad luck, bad matchup...sometimes a team doesn’t play well. Pretty simple.
Tony Bennett has been an excellent regular season coach at UVA - and a disaster in the tournament. As a #1 seed he's lost to a #4, a #10 and a #16. He's also lost as a #2 to a #7, a #5 to a #4 and a #10 to a #7. His teams have averaged 52 points in these games and have lost by an average margin of more than 14 points. "Sometimes a team doesn't play well"? LOL. You think it's a coincidence that some teams/coaches play their best basketball in March and others underperform - and that it's all one big crapshoot (which is a synonym for luck). Nonsense.
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You must be hard headed. As I stated it’s happened one time in history in a 1v16 situation. So yea anything could happen in a 1 game situation, 1 time in over 100 tries.
You’ve had a relentless day, it’s almost impressive
Yes, and it happened recently....less than a year ago. Point remains anything can happen, especially since we aren’t going to be a 1 seed and the rate of upset goes up.
Furthermore, go back to prior to seeding and our own Warriors lost to Miami (OH) in the first round that some will say was equivalent of that upset. Less teams back then, but a major upset. There have also been close calls with Georgetown and Oklahoma each winning by 1, and others winning barely in that top seeded position ( MSU needing OT).
20% of the time a 4 knocks off a 13, over 15% of the time a 3 beats a 14. People act as if the top seeds are preordained and best teams always win...they don’t.
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Tony Bennett has been an excellent regular season coach at UVA - and a disaster in the tournament. As a #1 seed he's lost to a #4, a #10 and a #16. He's also lost as a #2 to a #7, a #5 to a #4 and a #10 to a #7. His teams have averaged 52 points in these games and have lost by an average margin of more than 14 points. "Sometimes a team doesn't play well"? LOL. You think it's a coincidence that some teams/coaches play their best basketball in March and others underperform - and that it's all one big crapshoot (which is a synonym for luck). Nonsense.
I go on what experts say, which excludes you. Even Hall of Fame coaches like Bob Knigh, Coach K, Boeheim, Lute Olson, Izzo, etc have lost in the first round to very low seeds....did they forget to coach that day? Nonsense. Of course they didn’t. Coach K forgot how to beat Lehigh or Mercer? Lol. Yes, even the all time greats in this format get bit early by teams they shouldn’t lose to. Crapshoot.
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I am to lazy to look. what is tony bennett's overall record in tourney games. What is his record in regular season? What is his record in these to areas as a favorite, as an underdog?
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I am to lazy to look. what is tony bennett's overall record in tourney games. What is his record in regular season? What is his record in these to areas as a favorite, as an underdog?
He is 10-8 in NCAA games. Don’t have the other info.
He is three time Henry Iba winner, two time national coach of the year, 3 time ACC coach of year, one time PAC 12 coach of year. The man can coach and didn’t forget how in March, which is why it is ludicrous for some people to deny the reality of the NCAA tournament and the carnage it creates on even the best.
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I think Bennett is a very good coach. But will his slow pace play well in "Showtime" LA?
Howland turned Pitt from a nothing to a legit power in the BE. But at UCLA, he ultimately got run out of town because his gritty D-first style didn't play well in LA, so he caved to demands of wealthy donors to recruit kids he didn't really want. The result was a train wreck.
I could see the same thing happening to Bennett....
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UCLA got rid of Howland in part because some people, such as Bill Walton, criticized his deliberate style of play. And now they want to hire Tony Bennett?
I think he would be an odd fit. He is a good coach and has Pac 12 experience however. And my understanding is that he's not very happy in Charlottesville.
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Only 10? Try much longer than that. You and I both know the difference of opinion Williams had with essentially all his superiors, almost from day 1. They bit their tongue because of the success. Some will argue they sold their soul. Ultimately, there was a threshold and fortunately we didn't pay a buyout. Crean's relationship was 'different' but also somewhat challenged. And before him, Deane simply didn't understand that he was expected to actually win.
I only care about dysfunction if it's resulting in bad results per se. I've been parts of lots of orgs that had dysfunctional management but it worked because of or in spite of it.
Even with the early dysfunction of the Williams era, the on the court performance and the fact that nothing seemed glaring long term as a negative I thought we were in for a fun, long ride. Obviously that all changed when some glaringly ugly dysfunctional stuff happened but I couldn't see that coming.
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Dysfunctional organizations can only succeed in the short-term. Eventually it falls apart. It was a fun ride, but I can see why it wasn't long in retrospect.
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UCLA got rid of Howland in part because some people, such as Bill Walton, criticized his deliberate style of play. And now they want to hire Tony Bennett?
I think he would be an odd fit. He is a good coach and has Pac 12 experience however. And my understanding is that he's not very happy in Charlottesville.
That was part of it, but they also got splashed with some very unbecoming press in SI and the LA Times that roiled many alumni. That didn’t bode well when the Final Fours stopped. Star players like Westbrook complained that they were being held in check to not showcase their talents....individuals over team.
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Dysfunctional organizations can only succeed in the short-term. Eventually it falls apart. It was a fun ride, but I can see why it wasn't long in retrospect.
Don't disagree....but there is dysfunctional and then there is what turns out to be Buzz, Larry, Pilarz dysfunction. That turned out to be a stupefying level of dysfunction that took a couple of years to reveal itself.
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Considering how long Wojo waited for his first HC gig, I'd think him leaving for UCLA would be an embarrassment at this point. Maybe more so than Va Tech was. Their league is trash, their facilities aren't great, their flight situation is bad, and what they pay compared to cost of living isn't good either.
Honestly, I think we have the better job and it's not really close. I do think they'll get a recognizable name, but have a hard time believing anyone will leave anywhere considered to be a good job for UCLA. I think the biggest sitting coach they'll have a real shot at is Musselman. No chance Bennett goes there.
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Has Pitino's name been thrown in yet? I imagine he would take it in a heartbeat, and UCLA seems like the kind of program that would overlook past indiscretions.
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Considering how long Wojo waited for his first HC gig, I'd think him leaving for UCLA would be an embarrassment at this point. Maybe more so than Va Tech was. Their league is trash, their facilities aren't great, their flight situation is bad, and what they pay compared to cost of living isn't good either.
Honestly, I think we have the better job and it's not really close. I do think they'll get a recognizable name, but have a hard time believing anyone will leave anywhere considered to be a good job for UCLA. I think the biggest sitting coach they'll have a real shot at is Musselman. No chance Bennett goes there.
UCLA opened a brand new basketball practice facility last year that is excellent, cost about $50M. Pauley Pavillion was renovated a few years ago, is central to campus. Certainly not a NBA arena, but the pros practice pickup games often in the offseason.
The league is definitely trash. Brand is a problem, network a bigger problem.
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You must be hard headed.
From where I'm sitting, you seem to be the hard headed one this time.
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However, I think any coach following Coach K at Duke is doomed to failure. Much better to go to a once elite that is currently down, than to replace a legend like K.
It's better to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaces the legend.
Someone (presumably from the Coach K tree) will take the Duke job after Coach K and there will be an inevitable drop off and failure to live up to the prior standard. Then someone else from the Coach K tree will come in restore the program to its former glory.
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Don't disagree....but there is dysfunctional and then there is what turns out to be Buzz, Larry, Pilarz dysfunction. That turned out to be a stupefying level of dysfunction that took a couple of years to reveal itself.
Of course the worst dysfunction was Fr. Pilarz, but I'm way off topic. Nothing else was even close. Da*n the Board for holding to their 'Jesuit only' rule one iteration too long. BTW, Owen Sullivan is a rock star. We are in very capable hands these days. IDK if any of you have interacted with him but what a pro.
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It's better to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaces the legend.
Someone (presumably from the Coach K tree) will take the Duke job after Coach K and there will be an inevitable drop off and failure to live up to the prior standard. Then someone else from the Coach K tree will come in restore the program to its former glory.
Totally agree with StillA. And if I'm Duke, I absolutely try to go outside the family tree to at least give the new guy a fighting chance to succeed.
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Totally agree with StillA. And if I'm Duke, I absolutely try to go outside the family tree to at least give the new guy a fighting chance to succeed.
Brad Stevens
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Brad Stevens
Certainly worth a look. I still don't think he comes back to college coaching, though.
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Any shots Cheeks we'll ever see the Pac 10 Network on DirecTV?
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UCLA can't afford Brad Stevens. The Celtics extended his six-year, $22 million contract after just three seasons. Terms weren't disclosed. But based on other NBA coaching deals signed at the time, chances are Stevens earns somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 to $10 million a year.
Steve Alford was in his sixth year at UCLA with a seven-year, $18.2 million contract ($2.6 million per year). Plus, he's due $3.6 million as a buyout.
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UCLA can't afford Brad Stevens. The Celtics extended his six-year, $22 million contract after just three seasons. Terms weren't disclosed. But based on other NBA coaching deals signed at the time, chances are Stevens earns somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 to $10 million a year.
Steve Alford was in his sixth year at UCLA with a seven-year, $18.2 million contract ($2.6 million per year). Plus, he's due $3.6 million as a buyout.
UCLA can’t afford someone? You’re joking, right?
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I go on what experts say, which excludes you. Even Hall of Fame coaches like Bob Knigh, Coach K, Boeheim, Lute Olson, Izzo, etc have lost in the first round to very low seeds....did they forget to coach that day? Nonsense. Of course they didn’t. Coach K forgot how to beat Lehigh or Mercer? Lol. Yes, even the all time greats in this format get bit early by teams they shouldn’t lose to. Crapshoot.
Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team who lost to a nobody?
March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.
Yes, I know they did not seed the tournament back then, but the MOH loss very much was the 1978 equivalent of a 16 beating a 1. You never know and as Virginia found out, you cannot take an opponent lightly in tournament play.
As to the bigger question of Wojo and UCLA, I pray it's not going to happen. Coach Wojo is building something here and if we lose yet another coach at the point where we have built ourselves to national recognition -- if not prominence -- then it may be Hiroshima. With Nagasaki for good measure.
What our program has lacked since Coach McGuire discovered television has been consistency. We can argue until the cows come home (which in Wisconsin is late in the day) but each time an MU coach gets to the point where we have some prominence, we lose him to someone else. I candidly think Coach Wojo is different and somehow he likes it here, the persistent Scoop criticism notwithstanding.
I think back to Coach McGuire and while I know it was a different era, something kept him at Marquette for a long time. When Father Raynor stepped up and refused to void Coach McGuire's contract, the Coach never had a temper tantrum, never screamed that he was treated unfairly and never openly thought about leaving when his contract expired. He was a New York guy who found peace, happiness and a National Championship in Milwaukee. Here's hoping Coach Wojo does too.
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I am to lazy to look. what is tony bennett's overall record in tourney games. What is his record in regular season? What is his record in these to areas as a favorite, as an underdog?
I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.
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Miami of OH wouldn't be equal to 16 v 1 as there were only 32 teams in the tournament... unless the argument is that the tournament was weaker back then because crap teams were still in with less tough middle teams.
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I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.
By my count he is 7-6 in tournament games at UVA. One E8 and One S16. Not great considering the good seeds they've had, but certainly not awful, as you say.
I think they are a Final 4 team this year, but I do tend to agree with Chicos' "crapshoot" mantra.
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The league is definitely trash. Brand is a problem, network a bigger problem.
Jams
One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.
Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.
What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.
The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2.
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Jams
One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.
Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.
What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.
The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2.
In year two he has a whopping 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams!
Romar never had issues bringing in talent.
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back in 1978, heading into the tournament Marquette was ranked #8 and Miami (Ohio) was ranked #19.
or the rankings equivalent of a low 2-seed playing in the home territory of a 5-seed. For the opportunity of playing #1 overall Kentucky.
I was still shocked by the loss.
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In year two he has a whopping 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams!
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.
In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation
In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class
I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.
Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.
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In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.
In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation
In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class
I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.
Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.
And yet, 0 wins over teams projected to be at large NCAA Tournament teams. There are a lot of teams out there that would run through the Pac12 this season. It's quite literally the worst a power 6 conference has ever been in the history of college basketball. If the BE was as bad in 2016 as the P12 is in 2019, Wojo would've had MU in the Tournament and running through their conference as well.
8 years = a decade nowadays.
Not sure what source you're using, but 247 had his 2018 class ranked 41st, which is outside of the top 3. (Wojo's first recruiting class was ranked 12th)
Not sure what source you're using, but 247 has his 2019 class ranked 20th at the moment, which is outside of the top 5. (Wojo's second class was ranked 22nd)
And Wojo IS the MU coach. For a reason.
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Of course the worst dysfunction was Fr. Pilarz, but I'm way off topic. Nothing else was even close. Da*n the Board for holding to their 'Jesuit only' rule one iteration too long. BTW, Owen Sullivan is a rock star. We are in very capable hands these days. IDK if any of you have interacted with him but what a pro.
Yeah, Pilarz is the one thing I look back on in my 20 year association with the university and ask myself "what the f&ck were they thinking"
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Yeah, Pilarz is the one thing I look back on in my 20 year association with the university and ask myself "what the f&ck were they thinking"
As an alum of Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to one woman) I can state there is a lot more to the Scotty Story.
That is one f#cking creepy individual.
The Roman Church needs to allow married priests. The priesthood is an unmitigated disaster - a haven for creeps and bastion of psychosexual degenerates.
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Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team who lost to a nobody?
March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.
Yup, in fact I posted that earlier today about our Warriors in '78.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=57899.msg1092824#msg1092824
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Any shots Cheeks we'll ever see the Pac 10 Network on DirecTV?
Considering the same company just dropped Pac 12 Network from U-verse in the last few months......
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11/27/att-walks-away-and-takes-u-verse-with-it-what-it-means-for-the-pac-12-networks/
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UCLA can't afford Brad Stevens. The Celtics extended his six-year, $22 million contract after just three seasons. Terms weren't disclosed. But based on other NBA coaching deals signed at the time, chances are Stevens earns somewhere in the neighborhood of $7 to $10 million a year.
Steve Alford was in his sixth year at UCLA with a seven-year, $18.2 million contract ($2.6 million per year). Plus, he's due $3.6 million as a buyout.
Stevens to Duke, not UCLA
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I'm going out to play golf, but I'll get back to you later with details of his tournament record at UVA. I really like the guy, but it's awful. I was stunned.
10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu. 7-6 at UVA. One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.
As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed. Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further. Did they forget how to coach that day? Of course not. One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day. The tournament is littered with those teams having losses. How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches? Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc. That's why.
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Jams
One of my colleagues is a big U Dub donor and supporter. He is emphatic that Hopkins is brilliant and building something very special in Seattle.
Makes me wonder what if... as Hopkins was on the short list at MU when we hired Wojo.
What I heard is that Hopkins was considered the more ready candidate but MU was convinced Hopkins would bolt for Cuse as soon as the then 69 year old Boeheim hung up his Chuck Taylors.
The Twelve is down across the board but U Dub has it going in hoops and football. And Hopkins is now doing it with Romar's guys. Look at the talent he is bringing to U Dub - they will be a power for years to come. And unlike MU it is happening in year 2.
Power in what...the Pac 12? The conference ranks 7th in basketball, behind the Big East and AAC (both non P5 conferences). In football ranked 5th of the P5 conferences. I think a lot of Peterson and Hopkins is off to a good start largely because he has brought in the Syracuse zone that the other Pac 12 schools haven't figured out yet, but the conference is really struggling right now in the two main sports.
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10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu. 7-6 at UVA. One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.
As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed. Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further. Did they forget how to coach that day? Of course not. One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day. The tournament is littered with those teams having losses. How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches? Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc. That's why.
Yea, all the coaches that you listed have had bad tourney appearances, but they have also had more tourney success than Bennett. Bennett is a great coach, but there comes a time when regular season success isn't enough (BTW if he continues to have the regular season success that he has, that point is a long ways off IMO). How many 1 seeds without a FF would it take for higher ups to be unsatisfied. Even before the whole FBI thing, there were grumblings that Miller couldn't get the job done at Zona. For all the talent that has come through there in his tenure, the postseason results are sorely lacking. It's a tough balance, Pitt and UT made the wrong choice getting rid of their coaches that had great regular seasons but poor post season. For being a HOF coach, I would have thought that Bo would have won more than 2 games against higher seeds, UW-Madison was clearly content with the success that he was having, stuck with him, and the partnership worked out great. It's similar to the point I like to make when people bring up the Buzz versus Wojo debate. Yes Buzz's rebuild went faster, and has had more tourney appearances to date, but they have the same amount of tourney wins, and to a lot of people, (even if it is unfair) that's all that matters.
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In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team which was 9-22 and has already won 20 games.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team that finished dead last in conference, 2-16, and running away with the Pac 12.
In Year 2 he is taking Romar's team to the NCAA for the first time in a decade.
In Year 1 he signed three 4 stars and one 5 star for the 3rd best recruiting class in the nation
In Year 2 he has already signed two 5 stars and a 4 star which will be another Top 5 national recruiting class
I expect that once he has his players U Dub will be a force to be reckoned with. He is building something big.
Hopkins was very nearly the MU coach. For a reason.
Crash, I was also intrigued by Hopkins when Buzz left. Not sure who would have been the better hire. The concern about him bolting for Syracuse is definitely a real one. One of my good friends is a big time Syracuse booster and he still holds that the second Jimmy B retires, Hopkins is coming back home. IIRC, this was also before Boeheim announced he was sticking around for a few more years, there was a lot of speculation back then that he was a year or two away from retirement.
I liked Hopkins as a candidate, was near the top of my personal list. That being said there's a lot of misinformation in this post. In year 1 he signed 1 4-star and 4 3-stars for the 41st best class in the nation per 247. And that 4-star wasn't a borderline 5-star, he was ranked #109. In year 2, he has signed 1 5-star, 1-4 star, and 1 3-star so far. And again, that 4-star isn't a borderline 5-star, he's ranked #82, so I'm not sure what second 5-star you are thinking of. The class is currently ranked #20 though he may still add onto it. And as Wades pointed out, Washington was in the tournament 8 years ago, still a very long time, but not a decade.
It's hard to tell how good Washington is this season, most services put them in the 30s to 50s. I did watch their matchup with Gonzaga and they gave the Zags all they could handle, I came away impressed. They definitely looked like a tourney team to me. I think they may take a step backwards next season. They will lose four starters to graduation and I've also seen Nowell's name pop up on some mock drafts (though all as a 2nd rounder). If Hopkins loses his entire starting lineup (or even 4/5) that would be hard for any coach to recover from in a single offseason.
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UCLA can’t afford someone? You’re joking, right?
State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has
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State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has
https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/sports/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches-14774331
Of the top 20 highest paid college basketball coaches, 18 are working at public universities.
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Yea, all the coaches that you listed have had bad tourney appearances, but they have also had more tourney success than Bennett. Bennett is a great coach, but there comes a time when regular season success isn't enough (BTW if he continues to have the regular season success that he has, that point is a long ways off IMO). How many 1 seeds without a FF would it take for higher ups to be unsatisfied. Even before the whole FBI thing, there were grumblings that Miller couldn't get the job done at Zona. For all the talent that has come through there in his tenure, the postseason results are sorely lacking. It's a tough balance, Pitt and UT made the wrong choice getting rid of their coaches that had great regular seasons but poor post season. For being a HOF coach, I would have thought that Bo would have won more than 2 games against higher seeds, UW-Madison was clearly content with the success that he was having, stuck with him, and the partnership worked out great. It's similar to the point I like to make when people bring up the Buzz versus Wojo debate. Yes Buzz's rebuild went faster, and has had more tourney appearances to date, but they have the same amount of tourney wins, and to a lot of people, (even if it is unfair) that's all that matters.
Yes, but the greater point is if even a HOF coach can go out in the first round, why is it hard to understand the nature of the NCAA tournament? Most of those guys have also coached LONGER than Bennett. The other side of the argument, to hear some people here tell it Bennett is a horrible NCAA tournament coach while another guy those same guys love has a Final Four, but would anyone say the other guy currently at UGA is a better coach than Bennett? Of course not, but their logic leads them there because all they care about or talk about is the NCAA tournament portion. Some delicious irony there IMO.
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State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has
The funding will come from Wasserman and others, same way Chip Kelly is being paid.
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Yes, but the greater point is if even a HOF coach can go out in the first round, why is it hard to understand the nature of the NCAA tournament? Most of those guys have also coached LONGER than Bennett. The other side of the argument, to hear some people here tell it Bennett is a horrible NCAA tournament coach while another guy those same guys love has a Final Four, but would anyone say the other guy currently at UGA is a better coach than Bennett? Of course not, but their logic leads them there because all they care about or talk about is the NCAA tournament portion. Some delicious irony there IMO.
Like most things in life, there should be a balance. Bennett is significantly better than TC, everyone should be acknowledging this. But the point still remains that Bennett's postseason record is not up to the level that it should be based on his regular season record. His regular season record gives him and INCREDIBLY long leash, but there is a point where it won't be enough. 5 top 2 seeds without a FF? 7? 10? There is a point where the line will be drawn despite the regular season success.
The same can be said about any P6 program in the country. Wojo has had a great regular season and he has changed a lot of peoples mind because of it, and he deserves (and will get) a raise/extension. But, if Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed all graduate without a second weekend appearance I will be disappointed and not convinced that Wojo can get the job done. A conference championship, or conference tourney championship would lessen the blow, and give him a longer postseason leash, but it would still hurt. Is it fair? Probably not, but fans will always demand more, it's the nature of fandom.
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Uhh, gee, are any of you Scoopers old enough to remember another "high" rated team who lost to a nobody?
March 1978 -- Indianapolis, IN. A certain team we love lost to an unheralded Miami of Ohio team in a crapfest where the defending national champion lost its poise.
Yes, I know they did not seed the tournament back then, but the MOH loss very much was the 1978 equivalent of a 16 beating a 1. You never know and as Virginia found out, you cannot take an opponent lightly in tournament play.
As to the bigger question of Wojo and UCLA, I pray it's not going to happen. Coach Wojo is building something here and if we lose yet another coach at the point where we have built ourselves to national recognition -- if not prominence -- then it may be Hiroshima. With Nagasaki for good measure.
What our program has lacked since Coach McGuire discovered television has been consistency. We can argue until the cows come home (which in Wisconsin is late in the day) but each time an MU coach gets to the point where we have some prominence, we lose him to someone else. I candidly think Coach Wojo is different and somehow he likes it here, the persistent Scoop criticism notwithstanding.
I think back to Coach McGuire and while I know it was a different era, something kept him at Marquette for a long time. When Father Raynor stepped up and refused to void Coach McGuire's contract, the Coach never had a temper tantrum, never screamed that he was treated unfairly and never openly thought about leaving when his contract expired. He was a New York guy who found peace, happiness and a National Championship in Milwaukee. Here's hoping Coach Wojo does too.
Never forget being in the stands at Market Square in disbelief that fateful day. We were so well positioned to win a second title ....
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Like most things in life, there should be a balance. Bennett is significantly better than TC, everyone should be acknowledging this. But the point still remains that Bennett's postseason record is not up to the level that it should be based on his regular season record. His regular season record gives him and INCREDIBLY long leash, but there is a point where it won't be enough. 5 top 2 seeds without a FF? 7? 10? There is a point where the line will be drawn despite the regular season success.
The same can be said about any P6 program in the country. Wojo has had a great regular season and he has changed a lot of peoples mind because of it, and he deserves (and will get) a raise/extension. But, if Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed all graduate without a second weekend appearance I will be disappointed and not convinced that Wojo can get the job done. A conference championship, or conference tourney championship would lessen the blow, and give him a longer postseason leash, but it would still hurt. Is it fair? Probably not, but fans will always demand more, it's the nature of fandom.
Some fans, yes. I find it unhealthy and a lot of good coaches kicked to the curb as a result. The results over the longer haul show the true capabilities of a coach who can teach, get them to improve, etc over 5 to 6 months, not 40 minutes in one game. In my opinion if Bennett were to stay and continue with these results, an occasional Elite 8 and Sweet 16's, he would be just fine. Duke and UNC wouldn't accept it.
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Some fans, yes. I find it unhealthy and a lot of good coaches kicked to the curb as a result. The results over the longer haul show the true capabilities of a coach who can teach, get them to improve, etc over 5 to 6 months, not 40 minutes in one game. In my opinion if Bennett were to stay and continue with these results, an occasional Elite 8 and Sweet 16's, he would be just fine. Duke and UNC wouldn't accept it.
I respectfully disagree, but I don't think that we'll find out because I think they break through to a FF this year.
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As an alum of Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to one woman) I can state there is a lot more to the Scotty Story.
That is one f#cking creepy individual.
The Roman Church needs to allow married priests. The priesthood is an unmitigated disaster - a haven for creeps and bastion of psychosexual degenerates.
if that were the issue, pay for their subscriptions to pornhub 5000 ::) and a robot babe. otherwise, come on jonny, wedding cake ain't gonna satiate the sick appetite for the youngsters.
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I respectfully disagree, but I don't think that we'll find out because I think they break through to a FF this year.
UVA's history includes two Final Fours from the 80's. No national titles and up / down results for decades. They didn't even make a NCAA appearance until the 70's. They would be fools to run him out of town, but programs have done sillier things.
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10-8 overall at UVA and Wazzu. 7-6 at UVA. One Elite 8, two Sweet 16s.
As illustrated time and again, Knight, Coach K (multiple times), Izzo, Boeheim, Olson, Huggins, Self, Massamino, etc, etc, all elite and some HOF coaches....have lost in the first round to double digit seeds when they were a 3 or better seed. Go down to a 4 seed, and it really opens up further. Did they forget how to coach that day? Of course not. One game situations a lot can happen, including bad matchups or simply having a bad day. The tournament is littered with those teams having losses. How is it possible considering how elite they are as coaches? Because games are played, and stuff happens called sports....nerves, off days, glorious days for the other team, etc. That's why.
Tony Bennett has been to the NCAA tournament 6 times in his tenure. He has been seeded #1 three times, #2 once, #5 once and #10 once.
As a #1 seed his record is 2-1 vs #16s (the only coach ever to lose to a 16 and he lost by 20), 0-1 vs #10s, 1-0 vs #9s, 1-0 vs #8s and 1-1 vs #4s.
As a #2 seed, his record is 1-0 vs #15s and 0-1 vs #7s.
As a #5 seed he's 1-0 vs #12s, 0-1 vs #4s (lost by 24).
As a #10 seed, he's 0-1 vs #7s (in what are generally toss up games, he lost by 26).
As I said, I love Tony Bennett. But while Chico makes excuses, he would be the first to admit he's done a consistently lousy job at preparing his team for the tournament. I'm sure he's going to make changes rather than just HOPE that his team doesn't fall flat in March.
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It's a tough question. I generally agree with Cheeks that judging a coach solely based on what they do in the postseason is not a good strategy for success. Why dismiss a fantastic season because of 1 bad performance in the last game?
I think most programs would have a hard time firing a coach that is consistently bringing in tournament appearances and high seeds. Take Cincy for example. We can quibble on their exact placement in the college basketball hierarchy, but I think most would agree that they are top 25 program overall. Cronin has taken them to 8 straight NCAA tournaments (and is on track for a 9th) with a few high seeds mixed in there. In 8 appearances he only has 1 sweet 16 to show for it and that was in their second appearance. That's six straight years of first weekend exits, half of them in their first game. If he keeps that up, I don't think that Cincy fires him (assuming no off the court issues). If a top 25 program like Cincy won't fire a coach with a record like that, how many programs can we say would have that much higher standards for their coaches?
But I do agree that there is a theoretical point where consistent underachieving in the tourney will result in a firing. I have no idea what that point is and its probably different for each program. If Bennett gets Virginia a 3 seed or higher every year but always falls short in the tourney I think he keeps his job. I just can't see a coach leading a team to that high of a seed getting fired, no matter the postseason results.
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Cincy is an interesting example because they went from P6 to non-P6. If they were still in the Beast, and could in theory attract a better coach if they were to part with Cronin I think the trend of R64, R32, R64, R32, R32 would be a concerning one, but despite being a "top 25 program", I don't think there's any question that they're on the down swing. The Beast remnants otherwise known as the AAC are really the only examples I can think of where they're in that weird spot between mid major and power conference. Other than in their first year, when 'Ville were already on their way out, and Ollie winning with Calhoun's players, has an AAC team made the second weekend?
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Tony Bennett has been to the NCAA tournament 6 times in his tenure. He has been seeded #1 three times, #2 once, #5 once and #10 once.
As a #1 seed his record is 2-1 vs #16s (the only coach ever to lose to a 16 and he lost by 20), 0-1 vs #10s, 1-0 vs #9s, 1-0 vs #8s and 1-1 vs #4s.
As a #2 seed, his record is 1-0 vs #15s and 0-1 vs #7s.
As a #5 seed he's 1-0 vs #12s, 0-1 vs #4s (lost by 24).
As a #10 seed, he's 0-1 vs #7s (in what are generally toss up games, he lost by 26).
As I said, I love Tony Bennett. But while Chico makes excuses, he would be the first to admit he's done a consistently lousy job at preparing his team for the tournament. I'm sure he's going to make changes rather than just HOPE that his team doesn't fall flat in March.
Bennett has been to the NCAAs 8 times, not 6. He had two at Wazzu, including a Sweet 16. Yes, coaching at another school in the NCAA tournament does end up on your resume and why it isn't included by you is interesting.
Go further into your numbers. You are using seeding as if the NCAA committee seeded correctly. We know this isn't the case each and every damn year when a 12 beats a 5 or an 11 beats a 6. In theory, that should happen very rarely, but it happens more than a a third of the time. Why? Because if you look at the actual power rankings the teams are much closer than the seedings suggest. Does that excuse losing as a 1 vs a 16? No. But how did HOF Coach K do that to Lehigh as a 15 vs 2? Etc, etc? Because it happens. Because sports isn't about a little number next to the team. Kids actually have to shoot, defend, not get in foul trouble, etc. Things happen.
Let me give you a tangible example. In 2013, Harvard was a 14 seed and knocked off New Mexico the 3 seed. Shouldn't happen, right? But look at the power ratings with New Mexico at 24th. New Mexico should not have been sniffing a 3 seed at all, more like a 6 seed. The same can be said of 12, 13, 14 seeds that really should be more like 9 or 10 seeds.
Now, if UVa breaks through this year and goes to a Final Four, he's "suddenly" a good coach? What if he gets there because the bracket is blown wide open, or does that even matter? I'm sorry, but Bennett is a good coach, period. What happens in the tournament is an entirely different experience where even the most elite coaches in the game have lost early.
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Brad Stevens
Less than zero chance of that. He notoriously disliked recruiting and has one of the best jobs in the NBA. If he takes another job, it will be another NBA job.
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Bennett has been to the NCAAs 8 times, not 6. He had two at Wazzu, including a Sweet 16. Yes, coaching at another school in the NCAA tournament does end up on your resume and why it isn't included by you is interesting.
Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B? He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.
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What happens in the tournament is an entirely different experience where even the most elite coaches in the game have lost early.
Of course coaches, elite and otherwise, have lost games they shouldn't have in the tournament. But TB, in 6 years at UVA has been the victim of 3 major upsets and 1 epic upset and lost both "toss ups" (5 vs 4 and 7 vs 10, by 24 and 26 points respectively! while never beating anyone even close to his seed line. Somebody (John Wooden) has to have the most distinguished tournament record and someone has to have the most disappointing. Right now that someone is Tony Bennett. If I'm wrong, let's hear some names.
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UVA's history includes two Final Fours from the 80's. No national titles and up / down results for decades. They didn't even make a NCAA appearance until the 70's. They would be fools to run him out of town, but programs have done sillier things.
UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a program with no problems and is a consistent winner.
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Less than zero chance of that. He notoriously disliked recruiting and has one of the best jobs in the NBA. If he takes another job, it will be another NBA job.
I learned long ago zero chance is not an option. It may be low, but not zero.
Recruiting at Butler would be tough. Recruiting at Duke, whole different ball game.
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UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a program with no problems and is a consistent winner.
No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.
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The nature of the business dictates he will receive a raise, as much to show commitment as to ward off others. It is not the most practical approach to the world, but coaches are in a unique supply and demand position often dictated by emotions of those paying based on what you have done lately. He will get a raise.
This
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Bennett's record to this point sounds a lot like Ryan's record prior to beating U of A for the first time in a regional final. A very good one and a borderline great one at the end, but a whole lot of F's before that. And Ryan did it with a fair amount less of a clean image and no problems.
I interviewed Dick Bennett early in my radio career, around 20 years ago. Same thought now as 20 years ago. He's an extremely nice man, probably too nice for his profession. From everything I've gathered about Tony Bennett, the same things can be said. But if my program's goal is to win a national title, I don't want him coaching my program. Playing that style in a top-six league makes it significantly harder to win a national title. You've got to win essentially 5 straight coin flips to win it. Or maybe even 6 in UVA's case.
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State school, no they will not pay a coach as much as you think, never has
Wrong
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Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B? He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.
IU didn’t give two shiites about MU’s FF. They simply didn’t want Crean recruiting in their backyard.
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No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.
I'm sympathetic to Chico's view that the NCAA tournament is a crapshoot and you have to give more weight to consistently getting in and getting high seeds than to occasional success, because it's actually harder (and better) to do the former. And I'm not sure I buy that Bennett is a good coach who somehow "doesn't prepare his team well" for tournament games. Most great coaches have done poorly in the tournament some years by chance, and in a long career it might happen multiple times within a short period by chance, so that a casual observer might say during that period the coach isn't preparing his team well. And sometimes that short period might occur at the start of a coach's career. Jay Wright for example, had a six-season period between 2010-2015 where he didn't make it past the 2nd round, despite being a 1 seed once and a 2 seed twice. But since he had already been to a final four, no one thought, "he doesn't know how to prepare his players for the tournament." I'm sure they thought other silly things about him, but not that particular silly thing.
I know that Bennett's record is probably worse than Wright's (and losing to a 16-seed has strong pull), but I guess what I'm looking for to change my mind on Bennett is some objective criteria that would help me differentiate from two unlikely things: A several-year run of bad luck at the start of a career vs. a coach who is great at preparing his team and winning games for all but one month of the year.
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Do the people at Texas give a sh!t about Shaka's record at VCU? Does Kansas care what Self did at Tulsa or Illinois? Did IU fans take solace in TC's (Wade's actually) FF at Marquette? Virginia cares NOTHING about "Wazzou", pre, post or during Bennett. His post season record at Virginia is what's in question and given his regular season success it is epic bad. Of course Knight, K and others have had bad losses in the tournament, but none that come close to losing to a #16 by 20. That's unique, historic. And they have to many big wins in the tournament to list. Tony B? He's been seeded #1 three times and #2 once at UVA and has ONE win against a team seeded #7 or higher (a #4). His UVA teams have underperformed more than anyone in modern history in the tournament. I hope he gets the monkey off of his back, but it's there for a reason. He and his players have put it there.
Yes, they did and it was highlighted when those coaches were hired. One of the prominent announcements to Texas and IU fans is they hired a coach that got to a Final Four. It validates their hire. Of course they care, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
As it pertains to this exercise, it doesn’t matter a hill of beans because it should be about the person’s ability to coach...you are being selective to make a point you don’t stand solid ground on.
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UVA cares more about maintaining a clean image than championships at this point in their development. As such Bennett pretty much has life tenure because he runs a program with no problems and is a consistent winner.
I love when you say things like you know it to be true...cracks me up. Why qualify your initial statement with "at this point in time" with the next statement of life tenure. He will have to have NCAA success.
Defense travels easier than offense...he had success at a previous school...his dad had success...and I think he will have success...but imho flaming out the way he has for the rest of his career would not keep him at UVA for life.
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I love when you say things like you know it to be true...cracks me up. Why qualify your initial statement with "at this point in time" with the next statement of life tenure. He will have to have NCAA success.
Defense travels easier than offense...he had success at a previous school...his dad had success...and I think he will have success...but imho flaming out the way he has for the rest of his career would not keep him at UVA for life.
If he continues to win coach of the year honors, compete for ACC titles, remain in the top 15 like he has, they would be absolute fools to fire him. It’s UVA, not some blue blood.
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Bennett has achieved the "status" of being fringe Top 5 coach in the country.....
Isso.....K......Wright......Roy(even though I don't think so)......Calipari......Few.....Self.....
PS....."Status" does not mean you are.....
But right In that grouping.....
I don't think UCLA has "graft" unfortunately to land a coach of his accomplishment.....
Virginia is a great school.....Has great academics.....
I can not speak to his pay or the Virginia facilities......But I can't imagine they are not first class.....
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I know that Bennett's record is probably worse than Wright's (and losing to a 16-seed has strong pull), but I guess what I'm looking for to change my mind on Bennett is some objective criteria that would help me differentiate from two unlikely things: A several-year run of bad luck at the start of a career vs. a coach who is great at preparing his team and winning games for all but one month of the year.
Not even one month, but one game a year. In the month of March in the ACC Tournament he has won the tournament three times. Has done very well in one and done competition against some of the best teams in the nation.
This is also ignored by some here.
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Not even one month, but one game a year. In the month of March in the ACC Tournament he has won the tournament three times. Has done very well in one and done competition against some of the best teams in the nation.
This is also ignored by some here.
Isn't the ACC Tourney a crapshoot too? :)
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The thing about the “dance” and I think cheeks alluded to this somewhat in here, doing well is all about match ups. Initially, getting a better seed increases ones chances of moving on. After that, it depends on “upsets” that can shake up a whole bracket. Then it’s about matchups. Exhibit A-st Johns, even though most would say we are a better team overall, it has been proven this year that we have had trouble matching up with them. Hence, home and home losses. If we were/are to face them a 3rd time, I’m hoping wojo has figured them out and we kick their arse.
Otherwise, good coaches have the dudes who can matchup and perform against most teams. Getting the right combination of players vs theirs. This may happen to be Matt heldt getting 15 minutes instead of 2 for example. Or Cain with chartouny at opportune times. And obviously It comes down to the players executing for him. To win it all, many times takes the perfect storm where everyone is clicking and having the games of their lives at the same time.
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You'd think we'd have learned it was about matchups when Florida's team of giants beat down one of our best teams since the Al days or when Cuse proved that it was a fluke that a poor outside shooting team was able to shoot over their zone the first time in the E8.
That being said Bennett's style could work in the tournament, didn't both his dad and Bo Ryan prove that?
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I think it is difficult for defensive oriented team's like Bennett's to string together the victories to win in today's NCAA. Look at the NCAA champions over the years that Bennett has been at UVa and their season rank in total points scored:
Villanova (1)
North Carolina (1)
Villanova (2)
Duke (1)
UConn (9)
Louisville* (1)
Kentucky (1)
UConn (6)
Duke (1)
Here is UVa's rank in each of those seasons: 239, 244, 70, 157, 105, 137, 251, 306, 251
This is a little misleading because the teams at the top play more games so of course they are going to score more, but it is obvious from this that you need offense in today's college basketball. So I don't think it is a function of randomness that Bennett has underperformed in the tournament. It is a function of his style. But he's a good coach. So he's going to get a school to consistently win, but his margin in the NCAA tournament is going to be slim.
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Not even one month, but one game a year. In the month of March in the ACC Tournament he has won the tournament three times. Has done very well in one and done competition against some of the best teams in the nation.
This is also ignored by some here.
I'm more than willing to give TB credit for preparing and coaching his team admirably in the crapshoot one and done ACC tournament. His success warrants it.
And to be consistent (something you obviously have a problem with) I also give him "credit" for his epic failures in the much more important crapshoot one and done NCAA tournament. The first ever 1 to lose to a 16 (and losing by 20), losing as a 1 to a 10, a 2 to a 7, a 1 to a 4 and losing two "toss ups" (5 vs 4 and 10 vs 7) by 24 and 26 on one side of the ledger. His best win? winning once as a #1 against a #4. If you think that's the record of a guy whose teams were prepared and ready to play their most important games on the biggest stage then you're just hopeless.
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Isn't the ACC Tourney a crapshoot too? :)
No, it really isn’t. I realize you are teasing, but all the same. You know your conference brethren better than any other teams. You play them often twice per year and you know coaches tendencies far longer from playing teams year after year.
And, you already know how the bracket shapes up long before in some cases. Let’s use MU, we know in mid February that most likely we have a top 2 seed, can’t play Nova until the final and have a bye. In the coming weeks we will know with only a couple of iterations who the opponents will be. We also know we are going to New York.
NCAA, on a Sunday night we find out we are playing someone we may be playing 4 days later and at most five. In the event we matchup against a play in team, we don’t even know the opponent for two more days. On tha Sunday we also find out what part of the country we go to. So we have at most 4 days of practice, often 3 but also need to travel in that time period. If we are fortunate to win we have one day to practice for a team that we also haven’t played all year long.
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Probably going to regret stepping in here but why can't both sides be right on this topic?
There is definitely an upset aspect to the NCAAs moreso than regular season. But some coaches have proven consistency in the tourney as well.
Coach K is the classic example. Duke has lost to much lower seeds many times in the tourney. He has also won it all several times proving he's a good tourney coach.
I think if an older coach has consistently great teams but has never reached the Final Four to me that is on him.
However a younger coach who has great teams that lets say never gotten to the Final Four after 5-8 tries... it is not enough sample size to know.
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No, it really isn’t. I realize you are teasing, but all the same. You know your conference brethren better than any other teams. You play them often twice per year and you know coaches tendencies far longer from playing teams year after year.
And, you already know how the bracket shapes up long before in some cases. Let’s use MU, we know in mid February that most likely we have a top 2 seed, can’t play Nova until the final and have a bye. In the coming weeks we will know with only a couple of iterations who the opponents will be. We also know we are going to New York.
NCAA, on a Sunday night we find out we are playing someone we may be playing 4 days later and at most five. In the event we matchup against a play in team, we don’t even know the opponent for two more days. On tha Sunday we also find out what part of the country we go to. So we have at most 4 days of practice, often 3 but also need to travel in that time period. If we are fortunate to win we have one day to practice for a team that we also haven’t played all year long.
Good news is everyone is in the same boat.
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Probably going to regret stepping in here but why can't both sides be right on this topic?
There is definitely an upset aspect to the NCAAs moreso than regular season. But some coaches have proven consistency in the tourney as well.
Coach K is the classic example. Duke has lost to much lower seeds many times in the tourney. He has also won it all several times proving he's a good tourney coach.
I think if an older coach has consistently great teams but has never reached the Final Four to me that is on him.
However a younger coach who has great teams that lets say never gotten to the Final Four after 5-8 tries... it is not enough sample size to know.
Largely agree with what you are saying and don’t think I’ve argued differently. Some guys have done well in the tournament, they also usually tend to have great talent....I’m not so sure Bennett and others with high seeds have had the same talent levels as others, but have put their teams in those high seed positions regardless.
My only nit is how would you define consistency, using Coach K as an example. He’s won it all, 3 times he hasn’t gotten out of the first round. I suppose it comes down to definition in terms of numbers.
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Probably going to regret stepping in here but why can't both sides be right on this topic?
They can but some people like to argue.
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I'm sympathetic to Chico's view
I think it goes without saying that we’re all sympathetic for Chico’s views.
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I think it goes without saying that we’re all sympathetic for Chico’s views.
He certainly seems to have a lot of them!
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Repetition is the key to learning for adults.
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Can u imagine having to be around the guy on a daily basis? Truly a psychiatrists wet dream or maybe nightmare.
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Can u imagine having to be around the guy on a daily basis? Truly a psychiatrists wet dream or maybe nightmare.
or it's just an online.persona who gets a kick out.of getting under.peoples skins.
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Crash, I was also intrigued by Hopkins when Buzz left. Not sure who would have been the better hire. The concern about him bolting for Syracuse is definitely a real one. One of my good friends is a big time Syracuse booster and he still holds that the second Jimmy B retires, Hopkins is coming back home. IIRC, this was also before Boeheim announced he was sticking around for a few more years, there was a lot of speculation back then that he was a year or two away from retirement.
I liked Hopkins as a candidate, was near the top of my personal list. That being said there's a lot of misinformation in this post. In year 1 he signed 1 4-star and 4 3-stars for the 41st best class in the nation per 247. And that 4-star wasn't a borderline 5-star, he was ranked #109. In year 2, he has signed 1 5-star, 1-4 star, and 1 3-star so far. And again, that 4-star isn't a borderline 5-star, he's ranked #82, so I'm not sure what second 5-star you are thinking of. The class is currently ranked #20 though he may still add onto it. And as Wades pointed out, Washington was in the tournament 8 years ago, still a very long time, but not a decade.
It's hard to tell how good Washington is this season, most services put them in the 30s to 50s. I did watch their matchup with Gonzaga and they gave the Zags all they could handle, I came away impressed. They definitely looked like a tourney team to me. I think they may take a step backwards next season. They will lose four starters to graduation and I've also seen Nowell's name pop up on some mock drafts (though all as a 2nd rounder). If Hopkins loses his entire starting lineup (or even 4/5) that would be hard for any coach to recover from in a single offseason.
Aggie
We were very close to hiring Hopkins. The single biggest factor was the Cuse connection and the thought Boeheim was within 2-3 years of retiring.
I have no dog in the U Dub fight - in fact, I am much more interested in seeing the Zags succeed than I could ever possibly care about the Dawgs. But I have a colleague who has his name on a campus building so I hear about them a lot.
Not sure about the validity of rankings in terms of legitimacy but ESPN has Hopkins' first class with four 4 star recruits and 2019 with a 5 and 2 4's with another 5 signing this spring.
http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/264/class/2019
We can argue about the precision of an imprecise science but the fact is Hopkins is signing some legitimate high major talent.
I think Marquette would have flourished under Mike Hopkins. At the time I saw him as the exceptional prospect amongst the crowd of Cuonzos, Marshalls, Howlands, et al.
Goose and I agreed at the time that Hopkins was an excellent choice. Neither of us heard about Wojo until it happened. Wojo is finally getting results. Hopefully, he will sustain it.
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Power in what...the Pac 12? The conference ranks 7th in basketball, behind the Big East and AAC (both non P5 conferences). In football ranked 5th of the P5 conferences. I think a lot of Peterson and Hopkins is off to a good start largely because he has brought in the Syracuse zone that the other Pac 12 schools haven't figured out yet, but the conference is really struggling right now in the two main sports.
Jams
As i said, the 12 is way down in the two major sports. It is actually embarrassing how bad the conference has become.
Having said which, the overall strength of the 12 doesn't take away from what Petersen and Hopkins are building at the U. Petersen went to the Final Four and will likely be competitive for a spot in the BCS for years to come.
Hopkins is building something special in hoops. He is getting a pass this year because the 12 is so awful. But if you look at the talent he is bringing in there is no question that the Dawgs will be competitive on a national level under him.
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Aggie
We were very close to hiring Hopkins. The single biggest factor was the Cuse connection and the thought Boeheim was within 2-3 years of retiring.
I have no dog in the U Dub fight - in fact, I am much more interested in seeing the Zags succeed than I could ever possibly care about the Dawgs. But I have a colleague who has his name on a campus building so I hear about them a lot.
Not sure about the validity of rankings in terms of legitimacy but ESPN has Hopkins' first class with four 4 star recruits and 2019 with a 5 and 2 4's with another 5 signing this spring.
http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/264/class/2019
We can argue about the precision of an imprecise science but the fact is Hopkins is signing some legitimate high major talent.
I think Marquette would have flourished under Mike Hopkins. At the time I saw him as the exceptional prospect amongst the crowd of Cuonzos, Marshalls, Howlands, et al.
Goose and I agreed at the time that Hopkins was an excellent choice. Neither of us heard about Wojo until it happened. Wojo is finally getting results. Hopefully, he will sustain it.
That’s fine that he’s bringing in some big time recruits, but you don’t have to make up a recruiting ranking for their classes that simply is false. I also looked up the ESPN rankings yesterday and they had their class outside of the top 40 his first year (as far as I could find they only ranked the top 40 classes each year) and 17 his second year. That’s a huge difference from top 5 his first year and #3 his second year.
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I think it is difficult for defensive oriented team's like Bennett's to string together the victories to win in today's NCAA[...] it is obvious from this that you need offense in today's college basketball. So I don't think it is a function of randomness that Bennett has underperformed in the tournament. It is a function of his style. But he's a good coach. So he's going to get a school to consistently win, but his margin in the NCAA tournament is going to be slim.
I'm totally, 100% on board with this. TB is a great coach, but you're always going to be more vulnerable to upsets in a tournament format when your style is designed to shorten the game. Its a higher floor-lower ceiling approach. The problem is that when you actually have the more skilled team (presumed when you're the higher seed) there's a self-limiting aspect to slowing the game down and aiming to win games in the 110s-130s rather than 140s-160s. If you have more skilled players, you should want more possessions, to allow that difference to play out. The longer the game, the more your skill level and depth works for you. Instead, by playing fewer possessions, you allow lesser teams to hang around, gain confidence and crowd support, and your more skilled team starts to play tight.
I still think TB is a T-20 coach, but he's a good fit at places that could be tough to recruit. UVA, Wisco, etc are good examples of schools in the upper-middle 1/3 of their conferences who are well-served by playing this style. But if I were hiring at a blue blood, I wouldn't want TB unless he showed a willingness to leave that style behind.
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Why are those posters who initially disliked the wojo hire still trying to tear him/our program down? Even doing so indirectly by presently propping up one of their preferred candidates
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Good news is everyone is in the same boat.
.....mostly agree, but not entirely when you say everyone. Top seeds are pod protected, they know where they are going within reason while most of the teams have no idea where they are going until Sunday. Duke knows with 99.9% certainty today they are playing their first two games in Columbia, SC. No problem with that, it's how the rules are setup, but most teams have no idea where they are traveling to.
I'm guessing you are hoping MU goes to San Jose so you can see them, I'd love for them to get to the Sweet 16 here in Anaheim, but considering how we have fared in the state of California in the last 15 years.....I'm just as happy if MU avoids the state altogether.
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if that were the issue, pay for their subscriptions to pornhub 5000 ::) and a robot babe. otherwise, come on jonny, wedding cake ain't gonna satiate the sick appetite for the youngsters.
Greg
The most disgusting aspect of the priest scandals is how the hierarchy has been complicit in the crimes. The institution itself has actively engaged in covering up the most heinous of crimes.
The USAF has a code of conduct which every member knows and lives by. Break the faith and you are prosecuted. I cannot imagine the chain of command ever actively covering up breaches of the code.
What is happening in the Roman Church is systemic pedophilia. The unwillingness to address this crime destroys the Church's moral authority - it's akin to KFC not knowing anything about chicken.
I have to point out that in the other Christian faiths, where clergy are married, the sexual abuse of children does not happen. Coincidence? I think not.
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Jams
As i said, the 12 is way down in the two major sports. It is actually embarrassing how bad the conference has become.
Having said which, the overall strength of the 12 doesn't take away from what Petersen and Hopkins are building at the U. Petersen went to the Final Four and will likely be competitive for a spot in the BCS for years to come.
Hopkins is building something special in hoops. He is getting a pass this year because the 12 is so awful. But if you look at the talent he is bringing in there is no question that the Dawgs will be competitive on a national level under him.
Fair enough, but I think the Hopkins hire is risky as he has one foot in Syracuse potentially. Peterson I love, hopefully they can bring some luster back to the conference. Exposure is needed, and their tv situation is killing them. Larry Scott needs to be shown the door, the conference tv rights need to be purchased by a Fox, Comcast, Disney, AT&T, or someone to give them leverage on distribution. They are in desperate need of a major partner, but the above names are awfully leveraged at this point with massive debt issues.
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or it's just an online.persona who gets a kick out.of getting under.peoples skins.
Shhhh, don't spoil the surprise.
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Why are those posters who initially disliked the wojo hire still trying to tear him/our program down? Even doing so indirectly by presently propping up one of their preferred candidates
Personally, I did not dislike the Wojo hire. And, yes, I am pleased with the success of this season to date.
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Greg
The most disgusting aspect of the priest scandals is how the hierarchy has been complicit in the crimes. The institution itself has actively engaged in covering up the most heinous of crimes.
Even more disgusting is not just coming out with the reality of what is also going on, but no one has the balls to say it...well, some do but of course dismissed immediately. Staring everyone in the face for years.
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Fair enough, but I think the Hopkins hire is risky as he has one foot in Syracuse potentially. Peterson I love, hopefully they can bring some luster back to the conference. Exposure is needed, and their tv situation is killing them. Larry Scott needs to be shown the door, the conference tv rights need to be purchased by a Fox, Comcast, Disney, AT&T, or someone to give them leverage on distribution. They are in desperate need of a major partner, but the above names are awfully leveraged at this point with massive debt issues.
I know nothing of TV issues but I am told that Hopkins and his family love it here in Seattle.
Our counsel lives next door to Hopkins in Montlake. He said Mike is from Seattle and Trish Hopkins, who is from the west coast, is thrilled to be here and out of the Cuse Snow Zone.
There is always talk about him going back to Cuse but a recent article seems to suggest he is fine in Seattle.
https://www.syracuse.com/expo/sports/g66l-2019/02/94cfee59574493/could-mike-hopkins-return-to-syracuse-as-head-coach-mikes-mailbox.html
Personally, I don't care about Mike Hopkins since he didn't land the MU job. But to suggest he isn't doing a great job in Seattle is silly.
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I know nothing of TV issues but I am told that Hopkins and his family love it here in Seattle.
Our counsel lives next door to Hopkins in Montlake. He said Mike is from Seattle and Trish Hopkins, who is from the west coast, is thrilled to be here and out of the Cuse Snow Zone.
There is always talk about him going back to Cuse but a recent article seems to suggest he is fine in Seattle.
https://www.syracuse.com/expo/sports/g66l-2019/02/94cfee59574493/could-mike-hopkins-return-to-syracuse-as-head-coach-mikes-mailbox.html
Personally, I don't care about Mike Hopkins since he didn't land the MU job. But to suggest he isn't doing a great job in Seattle is silly.
Not sure anyone is suggesting he isn't off to a solid start. I'll be interested to see how the conference does when it adapts to the zone. Of course with the conference that bad, it's also hard to gauge how well things are going because teams are beating up on bad teams.
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Even more disgusting is not just coming out with the reality of what is also going on, but no one has the balls to say it...well, some do but of course dismissed immediately. Staring everyone in the face for years.
?
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Greg
The most disgusting aspect of the priest scandals is how the hierarchy has been complicit in the crimes. The institution itself has actively engaged in covering up the most heinous of crimes.
The USAF has a code of conduct which every member knows and lives by. Break the faith and you are prosecuted. I cannot imagine the chain of command ever actively covering up breaches of the code.
What is happening in the Roman Church is systemic pedophilia. The unwillingness to address this crime destroys the Church's moral authority - it's akin to KFC not knowing anything about chicken.
I have to point out that in the other Christian faiths, where clergy are married, the sexual abuse of children does not happen. Coincidence? I think not.
hey jonny- i just believe that marriage is too simplistic of an answer to the the perverts tenure of abuses within the catholic church. (read "goodbye good men") the hierarchy absolutely were too complicit and their sins were just as bad. but why did this even start? why do people rob banks? correct me if i'm wrong, but i think southern baptists are encouraged to be married. yet this is just hitting the news-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/02/12/southern-baptists-sexual-abuse-scandal-prompts-calls-criminal-investigations-comparisons-catholics/?utm_term=.e3514c327376
i realize there are exceptions to everything, but here is another example for non-believers to hit us over the head with. not to mention leadership(used very loosely)allowed this to go on for many years...disgusting. it's no wonder many are flocking to non-denominationals
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Not sure about the validity of rankings in terms of legitimacy but ESPN has Hopkins' first class with four 4 star recruits and 2019 with a 5 and 2 4's with another 5 signing this spring.
http://www.espn.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/264/class/2019
We can argue about the precision of an imprecise science but the fact is Hopkins is signing some legitimate high major talent.
Rankings are definitely subjective. I was just confused about the numbers you were giving. You said he got a 5 star his first season but ESPN only list 4 stars. Then you said he had 2 5 stars but only has 1. If he lands Jaden McDaniels, who has UW in his top 5 then he would have 2 5 stars.
We'll see on his recruiting ability. Right now he is starting 4 holdovers from the Romar era and 1 player who was signed by Romar. The 5 active players he signed are averaging a combined 11.1 points per game this season. Landing Isaiah Stewart was a nice feather in his cap but so far is the only major recruiting win for Hopkins and he has yet to play a game in college.
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I'm more than willing to give TB credit for preparing and coaching his team admirably in the crapshoot one and done ACC tournament. His success warrants it.
And to be consistent (something you obviously have a problem with) I also give him "credit" for his epic failures in the much more important crapshoot one and done NCAA tournament. The first ever 1 to lose to a 16 (and losing by 20), losing as a 1 to a 10, a 2 to a 7, a 1 to a 4 and losing two "toss ups" (5 vs 4 and 10 vs 7) by 24 and 26 on one side of the ledger. His best win? winning once as a #1 against a #4. If you think that's the record of a guy whose teams were prepared and ready to play their most important games on the biggest stage then you're just hopeless.
Looks like most people here disagree with you, and that's fine by me.
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No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.
Coach K's teams peed down their leg 3 times.....and to give full credit to the saying it came from Buzz Williams. So please give credit where it is ultimately due. Buzz said it, so did Jae Crowder by the way.
https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/marquette-wisconsin-prepare-for-ncaa-tournament-61085676-031212
”Again, it’s all about perspective,” Williams said. ”Are they going to be fired up because we peed down our leg in New York? Or are they going to be timid because we peed down our leg in New York?”
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Looks like most people here disagree with you, and that's fine by me.
When you can't refute the facts make something up - typical Chico.
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Coach K's teams peed down their leg 3 times.....and to give full credit to the saying it came from Buzz Williams. So please give credit where it is ultimately due. Buzz said it, so did Jae Crowder by the way.
https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/marquette-wisconsin-prepare-for-ncaa-tournament-61085676-031212
”Again, it’s all about perspective,” Williams said. ”Are they going to be fired up because we peed down our leg in New York? Or are they going to be timid because we peed down our leg in New York?”
Did Buzz and Jae give you the "choking dogs" line too? LOL
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Coach K's teams peed down their leg 3 times.....and to give full credit to the saying it came from Buzz Williams. So please give credit where it is ultimately due. Buzz said it, so did Jae Crowder by the way.
https://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/marquette-wisconsin-prepare-for-ncaa-tournament-61085676-031212
”Again, it’s all about perspective,” Williams said. ”Are they going to be fired up because we peed down our leg in New York? Or are they going to be timid because we peed down our leg in New York?”
So Coach K's teams have peed down their legs a few times - just like TB's. A minor difference-Coach K has 12 Final Fours and 5 National Championship. TB has zero and zero.
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Did Buzz and Jae give you the "choking dogs" line too? LOL
Nope, all mine.
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So Coach K's teams have peed down their legs a few times - just like TB's. A minor difference-Coach K has 12 Final Fours and 5 National Championship. TB has zero and zero.
Yup, just goes to show that even the greatest coaches in college hoops can pee down their leg, sometimes often. It's weird that they just forget how to coach that one day, after a season of great coaching and sometimes decades of great coaching. So strange. Same for ACC tournaments with TB....able to get guys ready for those, but in only a week's time completely forgets how to coach and not have his team ready. Ah, yes....logic is so strong with that approach...so very strong.
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When you can't refute the facts make something up - typical Chico.
My opinion, I'll stand by it based on people's reactions. You are free to refute it if you wish.
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Greg
The most disgusting aspect of the priest scandals is how the hierarchy has been complicit in the crimes. The institution itself has actively engaged in covering up the most heinous of crimes.
The USAF has a code of conduct which every member knows and lives by. Break the faith and you are prosecuted. I cannot imagine the chain of command ever actively covering up breaches of the code.
What is happening in the Roman Church is systemic pedophilia. The unwillingness to address this crime destroys the Church's moral authority - it's akin to KFC not knowing anything about chicken.
I have to point out that in the other Christian faiths, where clergy are married, the sexual abuse of children does not happen. Coincidence? I think not.
I could not agree more with your point about church (utter failure of) leadership. I think, however, that your example of the USAF as a good example of an institution where you cannot imagine the chain of command covering up (not pedophilia, but sexual abuse of a different type) is unfortunate.
All human institutions with inherent (if necessary) power imbalances-even those with stringent codes of conduct which are scrupulously adhered to by the majority-are susceptible to abuse and cover-up. See, e.g., the USAFA circa 2003 and allegedly circa 2014-16.
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Recruiting at Butler would be tough. Recruiting at Duke, whole different ball game.
Yeah. It's much higher pressure and more difficult. Anything less than the #2 class in the country is a disaster level disappointment.
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Yeah. It's much higher pressure and more difficult. Anything less than the #2 class in the country is a disaster level disappointment.
2010 ranked 6th. 2009 ranked 9th. 2008 ranked 23rd. Yet the still managed to win the title in 2010
More recently, 2013 ranked 7th. 2012 ranked 12th. But yes, they are often 1 or 2....they recruit themselves. That level of player picks each year between Kentucky, Duke, UNC and maybe 1 or 2 others.
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Yup, just goes to show that even the greatest coaches in college hoops can pee down their leg, sometimes often. It's weird that they just forget how to coach that one day, after a season of great coaching and sometimes decades of great coaching. So strange. Same for ACC tournaments with TB....able to get guys ready for those, but in only a week's time completely forgets how to coach and not have his team ready. Ah, yes....logic is so strong with that approach...so very strong.
Thank you for admitting this.
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Thank you for admitting this.
Your sarcasm detector needs some work, teal wasn’t necessary....I thought.
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2010 ranked 6th. 2009 ranked 9th. 2008 ranked 23rd. Yet the still managed to win the title in 2010
More recently, 2013 ranked 7th. 2012 ranked 12th. But yes, they are often 1 or 2....they recruit themselves. That level of player picks each year between Kentucky, Duke, UNC and maybe 1 or 2 others.
Amazing how you ignore the last 5 years.
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I love when you say things like you know it to be true...cracks me up. Why qualify your initial statement with "at this point in time" with the next statement of life tenure. He will have to have NCAA success.
Defense travels easier than offense...he had success at a previous school...his dad had success...and I think he will have success...but imho flaming out the way he has for the rest of his career would not keep him at UVA for life.
My view comes from knowing people on Virginia athletics board. They are thrilled with the success and the clean way it has come about. They had some bad things happen at that school in the recent past and the administration doesn’t want to take a chance on going backward. Remember UVA has not had big football success and the basketball progress is ,in the greater scheme of things ,a recent event . So they are very much in an extended honeymoon stage with Coach Bennett.
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Amazing how you ignore the last 5 years.
How did I ignore them when I said "but yes, they are often 1 or 2"....which includes those other years.
You don't think Brad Stevens could pull in great recruiting classes? I do. Plus with his NBA background he can tell that to kids, too. He knows exactly what it takes to be NBA elite and he'll help them get there. The pitch writes itself.
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Your sarcasm detector needs some work, teal wasn’t necessary....I thought.
MY sarcasm detector? LOL, sometimes you are really thick.
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You don't think Brad Stevens could pull in great recruiting classes? I do. Plus with his NBA background he can tell that to kids, too. He knows exactly what it takes to be NBA elite and he'll help them get there. The pitch writes itself.
Never said he couldn't. It's pretty well known that he had no desire to recruit. The idea of leaving arguably the most prestigious job in the NBA for a recruiting lifestyle he already didn't like is just silly talk.
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My view comes from knowing people on Virginia athletics board. They are thrilled with the success and the clean way it has come about. They had some bad things happen at that school in the recent past and the administration doesn’t want to take a chance on going backward. Remember UVA has not had big football success and the basketball progress is ,in the greater scheme of things ,a recent event . So they are very much in an extended honeymoon stage with Coach Bennett.
This
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Never said he couldn't. It's pretty well known that he had no desire to recruit. The idea of leaving arguably the most prestigious job in the NBA for a recruiting lifestyle he already didn't like is just silly talk.
Pretty well known? Can you point to that?
Here’s what he told us in 2015 on the Dan Patrick Show. 11:04 minute market if you wish to watch...no hesitation in his answer.
https://www.youtube.com/v/gOeKI_tGa9w
"You know I liked recruiting and the reason why I liked recruiting is because we cast a pretty small net. We went after guys that would fit our program and would do well in the classroom at Butler and fit our system, and obviously, were really good players. So, that part, you get to know guys. You get to spend time with them. That's where in the NBA, you gotta coach a guy you met 20 minutes ago, tomorrow. You don't know how they tick. They don't know how you do things. When you recruit a kid from 15-16 and he shows up on your campus at 18, they should know you pretty well and know what they're getting themselves into. That makes it a lot more challenging when you're coaching in this league. But it's fun coachiing in the NBA. It's fun coaching in college. I could coach anywhere and have fun."
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Greg
The most disgusting aspect of the priest scandals is how the hierarchy has been complicit in the crimes. The institution itself has actively engaged in covering up the most heinous of crimes.
The USAF has a code of conduct which every member knows and lives by. Break the faith and you are prosecuted. I cannot imagine the chain of command ever actively covering up breaches of the code.
What is happening in the Roman Church is systemic pedophilia. The unwillingness to address this crime destroys the Church's moral authority - it's akin to KFC not knowing anything about chicken.
I have to point out that in the other Christian faiths, where clergy are married, the sexual abuse of children does not happen. Coincidence? I think not.
Not just the priests, the next big thing to come out...
https://nypost.com/2019/02/16/inside-the-horrifying-unspoken-world-of-sexually-abusive-nuns/
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do we really live in this sexually charged of a world where no one can control themselves and almost worse, no one can see the wrong in it until it has escalated to the levels it has?
ok, back to UCLA-john wooden should help them out a little, unless he isn't thoroughly disgusted with the direction his school has taken
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Not just the priests, the next big thing to come out...
https://nypost.com/2019/02/16/inside-the-horrifying-unspoken-world-of-sexually-abusive-nuns/
Sorry, but what does the Roman Catholic Church and pedophilia have in common with the coaching vacancy at UCLA. Really?
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Sorry, but what does the Roman Catholic Church and pedophilia have in common with the coaching vacancy at UCLA. Really?
It doesn’t, I was responding to MULTIPLE posts about the subject already in this thread. I agree, shouldn’t be in this thread, but was in there before I responded to them. Guilty of responding.
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do we really live in this sexually charged of a world where no one can control themselves and almost worse, no one can see the wrong in it until it has escalated to the levels it has?
No we don't. But that doesn't stop people from using it as an excuse. So the next time you hear someone dismiss an allegation because "boys will be boys" or "look at how she was dressed or acting, what did she think was going to happen?" call BS on them. I have seen some nice pairs of legs in mini skirts before, never a pair so good that I lost all control and had to have sex with that person that second. It's an insulting insinuation really that as men we has so little control over ourselves.
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It doesn’t, I was responding to MULTIPLE posts about the subject already in this thread. I agree, shouldn’t be in this thread, but was in there before I responded to them. Guilty of responding.
Yeah, I get it, especially the "multiple posts aspect", but this place has been going rather insane with off topic, thread derailing issues in the past six months. Social issues, blowhard mouthing off, you name it, we've seen it. Many posters have requested over and over again to please stop and it just continues. Don't want to be any sort of "mod guy", but when I start reading about arguments over the UCLA coaching vacancy, which was great and then see child molesting and cover ups, just don't get it. Maybe someday it will stop and the threads will return to their respective topics like they used to be many years ago. And as I post, it continues.......
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I saw this thread jumped to 9 pages long and figured Wojo resigned and is moving to Westwood....
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or it's just an online.persona who gets a kick out.of getting under.peoples skins.
He's the ultimate edgelord. Putting all his personae on ignore and scrolling past all the posts without responding was the best decision I ever made.
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Yeah, I get it, especially the "multiple posts aspect", but this place has been going rather insane with off topic, thread derailing issues in the past six months. Social issues, blowhard mouthing off, you name it, we've seen it. Many posters have requested over and over again to please stop and it just continues. Don't want to be any sort of "mod guy", but when I start reading about arguments over the UCLA coaching vacancy, which was great and then see child molesting and cover ups, just don't get it. Maybe someday it will stop and the threads will return to their respective topics like they used to be many years ago. And as I post, it continues.......
Last six months? You must be new here.
I understand why it is annoying but personally, I view each thread as a conversation. Sometimes conversations jump on and off topic. You ever had one of those conversations where you just stop and try to remember how you got from point A to point Z in a conversation?
Definitely agree we can go without the blowhard mouthing off, I'm certain I'm guilty of it
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Last six months? You must be new here.
I understand why it is annoying but personally, I view each thread as a conversation. Sometimes conversations jump on and off topic. You ever had one of those conversations where you just stop and try to remember how you got from point A to point Z in a conversation?
Definitely agree we can go without the blowhard mouthing off, I'm certain I'm guilty of it
Yes, I am new, just joined a month ago.
Sometimes conversations jump? Just look at almost every thread, it comes down to a Chicos/Ners conversation to social issues to anything not relevant to the topic. Most posters want to read about the subject topic, not the jump topic. When I saw the child molesting subject, I felt it was required to jump in and advise I really don't want to read about it here and I really hope others felt the same.
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Last six months? You must be new here.
I understand why it is annoying but personally, I view each thread as a conversation. Sometimes conversations jump on and off topic. You ever had one of those conversations where you just stop and try to remember how you got from point A to point Z in a conversation?
Definitely agree we can go without the blowhard mouthing off, I'm certain I'm guilty of it
well stated tamu. i'll bet you can go thru almost every thread that zigs and zags on, off and around the original subject matter. i believe the board as a whole can regulate itself pretty good. weird how some can get so worked up about it-just skip it, change the channel and move on.
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This whole string demostrates why the board is better without Chicos, just sayin
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Three options. 1. Roll your eyes extensively hoping for that one occasional nugget worth reading. 2. The ignore function. 3. Sit back and do your own internal countdown until he implodes again and gets banned. Again.
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This whole string demostrates why the board is better without Chicos, just sayin
I agree he can derail threads, but in my opinion folks derail more threads talking about Chicos than he derails threads himself.
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I agree he can derail threads, but in my opinion folks derail more threads talking about Chicos than he derails threads himself.
THIS
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I agree he can derail threads, but in my opinion folks derail more threads talking about Chicos than he derails threads himself.
+2
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I agree he can derail threads, but in my opinion folks derail more threads talking about Chicos than he derails threads himself.
SandKnit has a special thing for me for many years. I'm just glad he is better healthwise now, and I sincerely mean that.
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Superbar, hey?
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I don't know the statistics on the kid-diddling exploits of non-Catholic clergy, but there sure have been tons of abuses -- sexual and otherwise -- perpetrated by leaders of other Christian faiths. Some d-bag Jewish clergy over the years, too.
There is nothing quite as evil as a person who is in a position of authority and trust -- not to mention a person who regularly judges others because they aren't godly enough -- being a d-bag himself (or herself, if applicable).
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I agree he can derail threads, but in my opinion folks derail more threads talking about Chicos than he derails threads himself.
+3
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I don't know the statistics on the kid-diddling exploits of non-Catholic clergy, but there sure have been tons of abuses -- sexual and otherwise -- perpetrated by leaders of other Christian faiths. Some d-bag Jewish clergy over the years, too.
There is nothing quite as evil as a person who is in a position of authority and trust -- not to mention a person who regularly judges others because they aren't godly enough -- being a d-bag himself (or herself, if applicable).
New York Times has an eye opening article today about the Catholic clergy.
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ND sucks
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New York Times has an eye opening article today about the Catholic clergy.
Yep.
But again, it's not just the Catholics. A few folks have suggested that letting priests get frisky would somehow solve these problems but there are massive abuses taking place even by clergy who already are allowed to get frisky.
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Getting a little bit back on topic, the UCLA opening doesn't necessarily concern me (I think Hoiberg gets it). However, aside from Duke in a few years, one place that I could see Wojo leaving for is Maryland. Turgeon is good (and clearly a good recruiter), but his teams definitely underperform come tourney time. He's gotten them as far as the S16 only once in his 8 years at MD. If they don't go far this year, and next year brings more of the same, I think his job is on the line .
I get it, College Park is not Baltimore, but it's close. MD pays well and has a good fanbase. And whether we like it or not, I think there's more of an allure to coaching in the Big 10 or ACC than in the Big East. If MU makes a good run this year and (hopefully) next, Wojo will clearly be high on a lot of lists. It's a nice problem to have, but I'm not so sure Duke is the only realistic suitor.
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Getting a little bit back on topic, the UCLA opening doesn't necessarily concern me (I think Hoiberg gets it). However, aside from Duke in a few years, one place that I could see Wojo leaving for is Maryland. Turgeon is good (and clearly a good recruiter), but his teams definitely underperform come tourney time. He's gotten them as far as the S16 only once in his 8 years at MD. If they don't go far this year, and next year brings more of the same, I think his job is on the line .
I get it, College Park is not Baltimore, but it's close. MD pays well and has a good fanbase. And whether we like it or not, I think there's more of an allure to coaching in the Big 10 or ACC than in the Big East. If MU makes a good run this year and (hopefully) next, Wojo will clearly be high on a lot of lists. It's a nice problem to have, but I'm not so sure Duke is the only realistic suitor.
This certainly is realistic, SI.
However, none of us can know what Wojo is thinking in these scenarios. There are guys like Wright and Few who ain't going anywhere despite being at schools that could be seen as "lesser" than those in the ACC, BT or B12. Maybe Wojo fancies himself as the next Jay Wright, content to build and maintain a national powerhouse at a great basketball school outside the P5. Or maybe he's looking for the first opportunity to jump to a job like Duke, Maryland, or any of several other "big-time" jobs. Or it could be somewhere between those extremes.
I guess it's "fun" to speculate, though.
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For giggles I went to Duke board and they also had Brad Stevens high on list. Some had Wojo, some had other Duke coaching tree including Capel.
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This certainly is realistic, SI.
However, none of us can know what Wojo is thinking in these scenarios. There are guys like Wright and Few who ain't going anywhere despite being at schools that could be seen as "lesser" than those in the ACC, BT or B12. Maybe Wojo fancies himself as the next Jay Wright, content to build and maintain a national powerhouse at a great basketball school outside the P5. Or maybe he's looking for the first opportunity to jump to a job like Duke, Maryland, or any of several other "big-time" jobs. Or it could be somewhere between those extremes.
I guess it's "fun" to speculate, though.
That could definitely be true, and I think we'd love for it to be true. I certainly don't see Wojo jumping for just any Big Ten or ACC opening (Rutgers, Minn, BC, Wake, etc.). I'm also making a big assumption that Wojo would even want to be near "home" - for some coaches that seems like a big deal, but might actually be a turnoff for others. But even using your examples of Wright and Few, you wonder if location has something to do with their willingness to stay put, Wright being from Philly and Few from Oregon.
And Wojo's wife is from Salt Lake City, so maybe he'll throw us a curveball and dump us for BYU...
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That could definitely be true, and I think we'd love for it to be true. I certainly don't see Wojo jumping for just any Big Ten or ACC opening (Rutgers, Minn, BC, Wake, etc.). I'm also making a big assumption that Wojo would even want to be near "home" - for some coaches that seems like a big deal, but might actually be a turnoff for others. But even using your examples of Wright and Few, you wonder if location has something to do with their willingness to stay put, Wright being from Philly and Few from Oregon.
And Wojo's wife is from Salt Lake City, so maybe he'll throw us a curveball and dump us for BYU...
Maybe. Can't get into Wojo's head, so I'm not gonna worry about any of this.
I'm certainly not going to worry about random publications putting Wojo's name on a list every time there's a P5 opening. I look at it as a sign that he's doing great things at Marquette, and I like when great things are being done at my alma mater.
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Maybe. Can't get into Wojo's head, so I'm not gonna worry about any of this.
I'm certainly not going to worry about random publications putting Wojo's name on a list every time there's a P5 opening. I look at it as a sign that he's doing great things at Marquette, and I like when great things are being done at my alma mater.
The more success he has at MU the more his name will appear for coaching vacancies. Part of the business. The one job he will likely take if offered is Duke. Other than that, I think he stays at MU unless the current administration changes and he does not like the replacements.
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The more success he has at MU the more his name will appear for coaching vacancies. Part of the business. The one job he will likely take if offered is Duke. Other than that, I think he stays at MU unless the current administration changes and he does not like the replacements.
Not even sure he would take Duke, at least not right away.
Let some other coach burn off that following-a-legend letdown first, and he can come in and be the "savior" of the program.
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Not even sure he would take Duke, at least not right away.
Let some other coach burn off that following-a-legend letdown first, and he can come in and be the "savior" of the program.
That's the pragmatic thing to say, and I think I'd look at it that way, too.
But most high-level coaches (and athletes and executives and politicians, etc) don't think that way. They have the confidence to think, "I'm great, and I can get it done."
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That's the pragmatic thing to say, and I think I'd look at it that way, too.
But most high-level coaches (and athletes and executives and politicians, etc) don't think that way. They have the confidence to think, "I'm great, and I can get it done."
It's more than that with Wojo. He is a Blue Devil. Almost all of his adult life he has been there. The emotional pull will be very strong. Time will tell but my guess is he takes if offered.
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On wojo...,
From other colleges that have lost emerging coaching stars....
The administration relationship may delay the inevitable...
The players may delay the inevitable...
The way to keep him is to make it a destination job!
A nba arena that is filled with paying seats.
A group of donors combined with Marquette that pay him very well.
A city and community that is attractive to his family.
A chance to be very successful, year end and year out.
IMO he needs to be paid 2x what he’s being paid.
He needs to have a path to greater responsibility if he desires like an AD position and growth in recognition. Sometimes leaders that like the limelight can Take credit where the coach is responsible.
Do all that and the nba could come calling and make an offer he couldn’t refuse.
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It's more than that with Wojo. He is a Blue Devil. Almost all of his adult life he has been there. The emotional pull will be very strong. Time will tell but my guess is he takes if offered.
Of course he takes it. He has spent 60% of his entire life, and 80% of his adult life at Duke. Bleeds blue. If you are offered the job u take it immediately, the “savior” job is not only ill conceived it most likely is never needed.
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Of course he takes it. He has spent 60% of his entire life, and 80% of his adult life at Duke. Bleeds blue. If you are offered the job u take it immediately, the “savior” job is not only ill conceived it most likely is never needed.
Roy Williams. But you are probably right.
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Not even sure he would take Duke, at least not right away.
Let some other coach burn off that following-a-legend letdown first, and he can come in and be the "savior" of the program.
These coaches have big egos and are very competitive. If there is a once in a lifetime dream job, you take it. These types of jobs don’t come along very often. Is a coach really going to wait around for the top coach they eventually hire to fail? Heck, we are still comparing Wojo to Al all these years later.
Coach K has five years left. His replacement gets five years to fail. That’s a decade for Wojo to twiddle his thumbs.
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If offered he takes it.....unless he's got a NC caliper team coming back or something, even than I'd think he's more than likely to take the Duke gig. I'd have to think being the second coming of Al (definitely not in the personality sense) at MU has to be a bigger career legacy than the dude that followed K but what do I know.
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If offered he takes it.....unless he's got a NC caliper team coming back or something, even than I'd think he's more than likely to take the Duke gig. I'd have to think being the second coming of Al (definitely not in the personality sense) at MU has to be a bigger career legacy than the dude that followed K but what do I know.
I doubt the team's ability to measure body fat factors into Wojo's decision.
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It's more than that with Wojo. He is a Blue Devil. Almost all of his adult life he has been there. The emotional pull will be very strong. Time will tell but my guess is he takes if offered.
I cannot believe that anyone even questions that he would take the job. Even if he has an objective understanding of the difficulty of being the successor to a legend, he takes that job without question/hesitation. And it makes sense for all of the obvious reasons (even knowing all of the difficulties and no matter how well things are going at MU at the time), but also bc the opportunity may never come again-hell, it is unlikely to come again if he actually turned it down.
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Take a look at the list of the NCAA's winning-est coaches. Then think about the guy that followed each.
Not an impressive list. Kinda shockingly bad actually.
But agree 100% that it won't factor into any coach's decision to take a job like that if offered.
But it probably should.
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I cannot believe that anyone even questions that he would take the job. Even if he has an objective understanding of the difficulty of being the successor to a legend, he takes that job without question/hesitation. And it makes sense for all of the obvious reasons (even knowing all of the difficulties and no matter how well things are going at MU at the time), but also bc the opportunity may never come again-hell, it is unlikely to come again if he actually turned it down.
Yup
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Coach K has five years left. His replacement gets five years to fail. That’s a decade for Wojo to twiddle his thumbs.
Here's hoping that "twiddle his thumbs" is a synonym for leading MU to a national championship or two.
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Take a look at the list of the NCAA's winning-est coaches. Then think about the guy that followed each.
Not an impressive list. Kinda shockingly bad actually.
But agree 100% that it won't factor into any coach's decision to take a job like that if offered.
But it probably should.
Denny Crum to Rick Pitino. Looks favorable.
Al McGuire to Hank Raymonds. 2nd highest winning % in history.
Dean Smith to Bill Gutheridge. Two Final Fours, an ACC championship, National Coach of the Year in three years.
Adolph Rupp to Joe B Hall. Three FF, NC, 75% winning percent.
Roy Williams replaced by Bill Self. Looks solid.
John Wooden replaced by Gary Cunnigham. 50-8 record, Sweet 16 and Elite 8. Highest winnng percent in UCLA history.
Are their results bad or are fans’ expectations ridiculous for the assistants that took over immediately? I think the lessons learned is to go big externally away from the legacy like Pitino and Self. Really only Joe B Hall made it from the ranks. Ollie won a NC and couldn’t cheat as well as Calhoun.
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On wojo...,
From other colleges that have lost emerging coaching stars....
The administration relationship may delay the inevitable...
The players may delay the inevitable...
The way to keep him is to make it a destination job!
A nba arena that is filled with paying seats.
A group of donors combined with Marquette that pay him very well.
A city and community that is attractive to his family.
A chance to be very successful, year end and year out.
IMO he needs to be paid 2x what he’s being paid.
He needs to have a path to greater responsibility if he desires like an AD position and growth in recognition. Sometimes leaders that like the limelight can Take credit where the coach is responsible.
Do all that and the nba could come calling and make an offer he couldn’t refuse.
WTH is that supposed to mean?
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Denny Crum to Rick Pitino. Looks favorable.
Al McGuire to Hank Raymonds. 2nd highest winning % in history.
Dean Smith to Bill Gutheridge. Two Final Fours, an ACC championship, National Coach of the Year in three years.
Adolph Rupp to Joe B Hall. Three FF, NC, 75% winning percent.
Roy Williams replaced by Bill Self. Looks solid.
John Wooden replaced by Gary Cunnigham. 50-8 record, Sweet 16 and Elite 8. Highest winnng percent in UCLA history.
Are their results bad or are fans’ expectations ridiculous for the assistants that took over immediately? I think the lessons learned is to go big externally away from the legacy like Pitino and Self. Really only Joe B Hall made it from the ranks. Ollie won a NC and couldn’t cheat as well as Calhoun.
Hank was a mistake, God rest his soul.
Cunningham didn't follow Wooden. Gene Bartow did and got to a Final Four but impossible coach to follow.
Tark to Massamino not good
Knight to Davis not good
More importantly, Stew Morrill to Tim Duryea was an epic failure.
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Not even sure he would take Duke, at least not right away.
Let some other coach burn off that following-a-legend letdown first, and he can come in and be the "savior" of the program.
Yes, If he does want the Duke job I see it as a K+2.
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WTH?
Pretty strong here...
The right support from the Marquette community and well heeled alums to allow the program to pay top dollar....the right perks etc... always within the rules....to make it a destination job and a well paying job.
Wojo is relatively young, experienced, tremendously marketable and does things the right way...
People pay on accomplishment and potential.
There are programs that can afford to pay him top dollar. Marquette needs to be in the ballpark.
At least I don’t have him relying on plotting 10 years out waiting for his dream job to fall apart and he can rescue the team!
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Hank was a mistake, God rest his soul.
May have been a mistake long-term, but it was indeed a solid record and certainly not “shockingly bad”.
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Off topic (but perhaps more on topic than most of the thread) Arizona has lost 7 straight. When's the last time that happened to the Wildcats? While a coach's record shouldn't matter when investigating potential misconduct....I think now is a helluva time for Miller to turn in his worst season ever. I'm starting to believe the theory that Miller will be gowne by season's end
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WTH?
Pretty strong here...
The right support from the Marquette community and well heeled alums to allow the program to pay top dollar....the right perks etc... always within the rules....to make it a destination job and a well paying job.
Wojo is relatively young, experienced, tremendously marketable and does things the right way...
People pay on accomplishment and potential.
There are programs that can afford to pay him top dollar. Marquette needs to be in the ballpark.
At least I don’t have him relying on plotting 10 years out waiting for his dream job to fall apart and he can rescue the team!
The way you phrased it certainly made it sound like you were talking about payments going directly from alums to Wojo. I am not sure why you grouped alumni donations in with Wojo's compensation in your post.
And my guess is that donations are a lot smaller portion of the budget pie than things like TV money. And it's doubtful that donations are tied to the coaches salary in any way, even indirectly.
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Hank was a mistake, God rest his soul.
Not what his Mom said.
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I doubt the team's ability to measure body fat factors into Wojo's decision.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5gw0VWGbgNm8w/giphy.gif)
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Not what his Mom said.
Excellent again.
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Off topic (but perhaps more on topic than most of the thread) Arizona has lost 7 straight. When's the last time that happened to the Wildcats? While a coach's record shouldn't matter when investigating potential misconduct....I think now is a helluva time for Miller to turn in his worst season ever. I'm starting to believe the theory that Miller will be gowne by season's end
I was watching the game last night and I think it was Lute Olson's first season. Not quite sure I got that right as I was watching on ESPN Deportes.
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The way you phrased it certainly made it sound like you were talking about payments going directly from alums to Wojo. I am not sure why you grouped alumni donations in with Wojo's compensation in your post.
And my guess is that donations are a lot smaller portion of the budget pie than things like TV money. And it's doubtful that donations are tied to the coaches salary in any way, even indirectly.
Dick Strong would write a check and drop it off with MUAD for Crean or Buzz. I never knew how Buzz's Bunch was funded.
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Dick Strong would write a check and drop it off with MUAD for Crean or Buzz. I never knew how Buzz's Bunch was funded.
THIS!
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Not what his Mom said.
So, you're saying, "That's not what she said!" That's a new variant on an old theme.
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Continuing to add facilities
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-athletics-introduces-plans-for-student-athlete-academic-center
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Glad to see the ROI on the Wojo hire is beginning to show for MU. Just seeing Dick Strong's name makes me queasy all over again about that strained relationship after the Shaka episode. Often wondered how generally Wojo connects with our most important donors.
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Often wondered how generally Wojo connects with our most important donors.
He doesn't. The guy is a politician.
Say what you will but even Crean has more balls when it comes to openness and honesty.
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He doesn't. The guy is a politician.
Say what you will but even Crean has more balls when it comes to openness and honesty.
LOL
Watch any candid interaction Wojo has with a player. He's a genuine guy without a schtick.
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LOL
Watch any candid interaction Wojo has with a player. He's a genuine guy without a schtick.
But that wasn't the question. It was how does Wojo interact with the donor base.
He likely is a regular dude with the players; I would be shocked if he weren't.
Crean, on the other hand, is genuinely weird with his players. But unlike Wojo Crean is likely more open with donors.
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But that wasn't the question. It was how does Wojo interact with the donor base.
He likely is a regular dude with the players; I would be shocked if he weren't.
Crean, on the other hand, is genuinely weird with his players. But unlike Wojo Crean is likely more open with donors.
That’s Scholl’s job and he is good at it. Wojo has a following because he is sincere. Totally understated but the 100 Year changed impressions. Old news.
That said, he doesn’t run off money like Larry and Pilarz did. Joe True is rockin’ it.
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He doesn't. The guy is a politician.
Curious to hear how you know this about Wojo, Crash.
The few well-heeled alums I know who have interacted with Wojo like him very much. Most of them also have been very pleased with the trajectory of the program.
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He doesn't. The guy is a politician.
Say what you will but even Crean has more balls when it comes to openness and honesty.
Have you interacted with him for first hand experience?
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But that wasn't the question. It was how does Wojo interact with the donor base.
He likely is a regular dude with the players; I would be shocked if he weren't.
Crean, on the other hand, is genuinely weird with his players. But unlike Wojo Crean is likely more open with donors.
Crean was the biggest politician I've ever seen in donor situations. He was always scanning the room for a more important person he could be talking to. Wojo, in the settings I've seen him in, has been very engaging and personable, not acting like he was more important than anyone, and actually made eye contact with the people he spoke to no matter who they were.
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Crean was the biggest politician I've ever seen in donor situations. He was always scanning the room for a more important person he could be talking to. Wojo, in the settings I've seen him in, has been very engaging and personable, not acting like he was more important than anyone, and actually made eye contact with the people he spoke to no matter who they were.
This is largely true of my brief interactions with Wojo, as well as those of others I know who've met and spoken with him at alumni events and the like.
But he's definitely been quick to move on from us regular slobs to those with deeper pockets. As he should be. There's nothing wrong with that. Anyone who doesn't like it should pony up more.
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People against the initial hiring of Wojo continue to disparage him for whatever reasons they can find.
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That’s Scholl’s job and he is good at it. Wojo has a following because he is sincere. Totally understated but the 100 Year changed impressions. Old news.
That said, he doesn’t run off money like Larry and Pilarz did. Joe True is rockin’ it.
Bingo. Never underestimate the backbone of your program: fundraising. When you have an effective guy running the money show, it minimizes Wojo et al having to muck around in the sleaze.
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If anywon heer nos the reel Wojo, its Ma and Pa. Gotta ax 'em 'cuz dey got da skinny, aina?
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No disagreement. As stated multiple times, I like and admire Bennett and think he's a good coach. But the fact remains his teams have vastly underperformed in the tournament. As Chico would say, they've peed down their leg, and they've done it several times.
Because it's hard to get to a Final Four, but Bennett pulled it off. Good for him. Sometimes you pee down the leg, and sometimes you make it all the way. That's why it is such a crazy thing to win.
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Crash is right.
I’ll be crucified for this, but fk it.
Never met a guy who wears a letterman jacket, basketball shorts, and walks around with his own gallon of water.
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Because it's hard to get to a Final Four, but Bennett pulled it off. Good for him. Sometimes you pee down the leg, and sometimes you make it all the way. That's why it is such a crazy thing to win.
Good for TB. As previously stated, I'm a fan. But in truth, his team peed down their leg against Purdue and lucked out. Then they peed down their leg again vs Auburn and lucked out again when the zebras missed a double dribble with 2 seconds left.
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Good for TB. As previously stated, I'm a fan. But in truth, his team peed down their leg against Purdue and lucked out. Then they peed down their leg again vs Auburn and lucked out again when the zebras missed a double dribble with 2 seconds left.
Yup, sometimes better to be lucky than good....like us vs Davidson....like UVA vs Auburn. It happens.
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Good for TB. As previously stated, I'm a fan. But in truth, his team peed down their leg against Purdue and lucked out. Then they peed down their leg again vs Auburn and lucked out again when the zebras missed a double dribble with 2 seconds left.
I’m not sure they really “peed down their leg” against Purdue. Carson Edwards was pulling up from a step behind NBA 3 point range and burying shots with a hand in his face (and banking one in). Not much any team in the country could’ve done to stop him that night. And they still came away with a win.
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Have you interacted with him for first hand experience?
I have, he is a solid guy on a one on one level. Not the stiff, coach speak stuff that is put out for media consumption. That is why I keep saying he is here as long as he wants to be here. Scholl knows how to ring the register with a guy like Wojo as a prop.
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Curious to hear how you know this about Wojo, Crash.
The few well-heeled alums I know who have interacted with Wojo like him very much. Most of them also have been very pleased with the trajectory of the program.
I've had some limited interaction with him. He's much better one on one than before a group but he's getting better at the latter. I'd describe his personality as 'guarded' but 'genuine'. He's not a back slapper or a guy that enjoys being the center of attention. He's careful around folks he doesn't know.
Chick and I know others that know him very well. Literally among MU's most influential donors. I've been with them enough that we've talked about the subject at some length. To a person they think he's a quality guy. Not sure what else I can say.
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I’m not sure they really “peed down their leg” against Purdue. Carson Edwards was pulling up from a step behind NBA 3 point range and burying shots with a hand in his face (and banking one in). Not much any team in the country could’ve done to stop him that night. And they still came away with a win.
Turned a 6 point lead into what should have been an insurmountable deficit in the final 5 minutes by missing 8 straight shots and committing a turnover. Compared to them, Davidson was perfect.
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I've had some limited interaction with him. He's much better one on one than before a group but he's getting better at the latter. I'd describe his personality as 'guarded' but 'genuine'. He's not a back slapper or a guy that enjoys being the center of attention. He's careful around folks he doesn't know.
Chick and I know others that know him very well. Literally among MU's most influential donors. I've been with them enough that we've talked about the subject at some length. To a person they think he's a quality guy. Not sure what else I can say.
Taught ewe were on da a list wit Wojo's cell number and such, hey?
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But that wasn't the question. It was how does Wojo interact with the donor base.
He likely is a regular dude with the players; I would be shocked if he weren't.
Crean, on the other hand, is genuinely weird with his players. But unlike Wojo Crean is likely more open with donors.
At least you’re admitting you don’t actually know but you don’t like the guy so you’ll make the entirely uneducated claim anyway.
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Turned a 6 point lead into what should have been an insurmountable deficit in the final 5 minutes by missing 8 straight shots and committing a turnover. Compared to them, Davidson was perfect.
A whopping 1 turnover over the last 5 minutes. Goodness never mind, they pissed their pants!
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A whopping 1 turnover over the last 5 minutes. Goodness never mind, they pissed their pants!
They missed 8 straight shots..Goodness, never mind, missing 8 straight field goals in the games final 5 minutes and blowing a lead is the definition of clutch.
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I've had some limited interaction with him. He's much better one on one than before a group but he's getting better at the latter. I'd describe his personality as 'guarded' but 'genuine'. He's not a back slapper or a guy that enjoys being the center of attention. He's careful around folks he doesn't know.
Chick and I know others that know him very well. Literally among MU's most influential donors. I've been with them enough that we've talked about the subject at some length. To a person they think he's a quality guy. Not sure what else I can say.
One of our friends to whom Glow is referring told us he got a phone call from Wojo the day he was hired. If he got one, it is safe to assume our other friends did as well. Believe me, Wojo understands the importance of donors.
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Because it's hard to get to a Final Four, but Bennett pulled it off. Good for him. Sometimes you pee down the leg, and sometimes you make it all the way. That's why it is such a crazy thing to win.
Who you Hoopin'?
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I've had some limited interaction with him. He's much better one on one than before a group but he's getting better at the latter. I'd describe his personality as 'guarded' but 'genuine'. He's not a back slapper or a guy that enjoys being the center of attention. He's careful around folks he doesn't know.
Chick and I know others that know him very well. Literally among MU's most influential donors. I've been with them enough that we've talked about the subject at some length. To a person they think he's a quality guy. Not sure what else I can say.
This pretty much explains it. Is a bit stiff with events, he attends them with frequency and doesn't miss them or come late or refuse to do them. In smaller groups, he is great and personable, but he is intense in that he is all basketball. He is not alienating to donors in any way.
Giving is way up. Events sell out. Attendance up. Why is this a question?
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They missed 8 straight shots..Goodness, never mind, missing 8 straight field goals in the games final 5 minutes and blowing a lead is the definition of clutch.
Who said they were clutch? So you’re either clutch or you’re peeing down your leg? Seems like there should be a middle ground but what do I know?
I’m shocked some college basketball players would miss shots over a 5 minute period. That cannot happen.
What is clutch is having the presence of mind to know there’s enough time to make a half court pass when you have the ball down 2 under 3 seconds to go, and to keep the ball high and get the shot off to tie the game in time.
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Who said they were clutch? So you’re either clutch or you’re peeing down your leg? Seems like there should be a middle ground but what do I know?
Got it. "Middle ground" is 0 for 8. What is choke? Minus 4 out of 8?
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Got it. "Middle ground" is 0 for 8. What is choke? Minus 4 out of 8?
When did this 0 for 8 happen? I just looked through the second half play by play of the UVA vs. Purdue game. The most consecutive missed UVA had was 5 in the second half. If a team missing 5 straight shots at some point in a college basketball game is peeing down your leg then college basketball is flooding with urine.
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Four plus minutes without a bucket by either team in this NCAA semifinal. Sword crossing in action!
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Four plus minutes without a bucket by either team in this NCAA semifinal. Sword crossing in action!
Purdue went from down 6 to up 3. Not exactly the same.
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Purdue went from down 6 to up 3. Not exactly the same.
Sometimes leads change in basketball games. It’s wild.
But seriously during what time period did UVA miss 8 straight shots? I’ve looked through the second half play by play 4 or 5 times and the most consecutive missed shots by UVA I’m finding is 5.
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I've had some limited interaction with him. He's much better one on one than before a group but he's getting better at the latter. I'd describe his personality as 'guarded' but 'genuine'. He's not a back slapper or a guy that enjoys being the center of attention. He's careful around folks he doesn't know.
Chick and I know others that know him very well. Literally among MU's most influential donors. I've been with them enough that we've talked about the subject at some length. To a person they think he's a quality guy. Not sure what else I can say.
Thanks for this answer, glow.
About what I expected.
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Sometimes leads change in basketball games. It’s wild.
But seriously during what time period did UVA miss 8 straight shots? I’ve looked through the second half play by play 4 or 5 times and the most consecutive missed shots by UVA I’m finding is 5.
You're right. I missed a made lay up by Guy in the final 4:42. They were 1-8, not 0-8. My apologies.
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MU is BACK.
"Dewey Defeats Truman..."
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The funding will come from Wasserman
The Debster??
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Not just the priests, the next big thing to come out...
https://nypost.com/2019/02/16/inside-the-horrifying-unspoken-world-of-sexually-abusive-nuns/
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As a boy living in Tokyo I went to St Mary's International School. We had German nuns teaching there and one of them spent 20 minutes with the 3rd grade boys explaining how we were to urinate without touching our members.
She literally told us how we were to unbuckle then pull down our tight whites by the elastic band until our sabers popped out. Upon completion of mission we were forbidden from giving the willy a shake.
Talk about having a screw loose.
Years later there were accusations levied against Br Lawrence, SMIS's long time headmaster. Those allegations then opened up the floodgates as more victims stepped forward:
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2014/09/01/issues/st-marys-international-school-tokyo-rocked-sexual-abuse-claims/#.XKmypZhKj7A
One thing is for sure: theBabyDavid's mother has made it very clear he will never, ever have anything to do with Roman Catholic education. Frankly, she is 100% correct.
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pee down their leg
What does this mean, exactly?
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I could not agree more with your point about church (utter failure of) leadership. I think, however, that your example of the USAF as a good example of an institution where you cannot imagine the chain of command covering up (not pedophilia, but sexual abuse of a different type) is unfortunate.
All human institutions with inherent (if necessary) power imbalances-even those with stringent codes of conduct which are scrupulously adhered to by the majority-are susceptible to abuse and cover-up. See, e.g., the USAFA circa 2003 and allegedly circa 2014-16.
There have been some bone headed decisions made by Air Force officers. No doubt. But the fact is when the truth comes out, and it always does, the institution addresses it aggressively and fully.
The unwritten rule is, 'You lie, You die.' And in every case, when a guy gets hammered, it's always because he lied to cover things up rather than the original transgression.
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I have seen some nice pairs of legs in mini skirts before, never a pair so good that I lost all control and had to have sex with that person that second. It's an insulting insinuation really that as men we has so little control over ourselves.
So after seeing great gams in a mini skirt you had sex with yourself later??
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And Wojo's wife is from Salt Lake City, so maybe he'll throw us a curveball and dump us for BYU...
Is she a Mo?
I think, just as Wojo would not want to follow a legend at Duke so, too, would he be loathe to coach anywhere in Utah where Stew Morrill reigned for so many decades
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If anywon heer nos the reel Wojo, its Ma and Pa. Gotta ax 'em 'cuz dey got da skinny, aina?
Doc
Ma was really tight with Coach Peters. And Jen. Jen loves Ma.
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Is she a Mo?
I think, just as Wojo would not want to follow a legend at Duke so, too, would he be loathe to coach anywhere in Utah where Stew Morrill reigned for so many decades
;D
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ucla-cant-hire-any-basketball-coach-it-wants-but-try-convincing-ucla-of-that/2019/04/05/8791dae8-57d1-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.6600a32bbd62
Some good things to ponder here. Like how fanbases always overestimate who they can get as a replacement.
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And now UCLA will shoot for the level of coach they can get and still convince fans it’s a good hire - Wojo.
This is fine if it does not take the next coach 5 years to rebuild.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ucla-cant-hire-any-basketball-coach-it-wants-but-try-convincing-ucla-of-that/2019/04/05/8791dae8-57d1-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.6600a32bbd62
Some good things to ponder here. Like how fanbases always overestimate who they can get as a replacement.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ucla-cant-hire-any-basketball-coach-it-wants-but-try-convincing-ucla-of-that/2019/04/05/8791dae8-57d1-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.6600a32bbd62
Some good things to ponder here. Like how fanbases always overestimate who they can get as a replacement.
And that entitled attitude is why established coaches have no need for that job.
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Crash
Is it confirmed that Coach Peters is moving on?
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/ucla-cant-hire-any-basketball-coach-it-wants-but-try-convincing-ucla-of-that/2019/04/05/8791dae8-57d1-11e9-814f-e2f46684196e_story.html?utm_term=.6600a32bbd62
Some good things to ponder here. Like how fanbases always overestimate who they can get as a replacement.
This paragraph sure rings familiar around here. Just replace a few names and years.
Wooden hasn’t coached since 1975. He died in 2010. Yet UCLA people still invoke his name constantly as if he will walk through the door any minute trailed by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton.
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This paragraph sure rings familiar around here. Just replace a few names and years.
Wooden hasn’t coached since 1975. He died in 2010. Yet UCLA people still invoke his name constantly as if he will walk through the door any minute trailed by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton.
Sounds like some of our fans
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Actually all the Al talk comes from the administration.
Retired 77
Named the court
Al on the jersey
Named the practice facility
Most fans I know just want to get back to constant NCAA success. AKA The Buzz Years.
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Is she a Mo?
I think, just as Wojo would not want to follow a legend at Duke so, too, would he be loathe to coach anywhere in Utah where Stew Morrill reigned for so many decades
As Garbo said: You're very talkative.
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Actually all the Al talk comes from the administration.
Retired 77
Named the court
Al on the jersey
Named the practice facility
Most fans I know just want to get back to constant NCAA success. AKA The Buzz Years.
All the talk? Come on. We have memory lane here all the time for Al...which is fine. Embrace the tradition.
Does Buzz even have a Final Four yet? What is holding him back?
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All the talk? Come on. We have memory lane here all the time for Al...which is fine. Embrace the tradition.
Does Buzz even have a Final Four yet? What is holding him back?
crapshoot
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crapshoot
Exactly
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Actually all the Al talk comes from the administration.
Retired 77
Named the court
Al on the jersey
Named the practice facility
Most fans I know just want to get back to constant NCAA success. AKA The Buzz Years.
You and I aren't reading the same Scoop if you don't believe Al comes up around here frequently.
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You and I aren't reading the same Scoop if you don't believe Al comes up around here frequently.
Yup.....here at MU Scoop we are currently in a message board named after some guy
HANGIN' AT THE AL
(https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-30-at-6-38-44-pm.png?w=896&h=554&crop=1)
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Yup.....here at MU Scoop we are currently in a message board named after some guy
HANGIN' AT THE AL
(https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/screen-shot-2015-10-30-at-6-38-44-pm.png?w=896&h=554&crop=1)
Is it named after the guy or is it named after the building named after the guy we are insinuating is the guy that the board is named after?
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The Lens
MU does not miss an Al opportunity. I would prefer less Al from MU, and replace it with more on court success.
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The Lens
MU does not miss an Al opportunity. I would prefer less Al from MU, and replace it with more on court success.
Yes. The focus on Al is preventing on court success. We have the opportunity to pick one or the other and the administration chooses having Al’s name on campus over winning basketball games. Sad!
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wades
It is time to move on from Al. MU’s biggest ball marketing plan is throwing Al’s name around. It is time to build a new brand and on court success is needed. I would love to see MU really build a new marketing plan and let the current program build off it. MU has milked more out of Al than us old guys on here.
Just curious, do you ever think big picture? Do you think it is time to move from a guy that has not coached in four plus decades?
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wades
It is time to move on from Al. MU’s biggest ball marketing plan is throwing Al’s name around. It is time to build a new brand and on court success is needed. I would love to see MU really build a new marketing plan and let the current program build off it. MU has milked more out of Al than us old guys on here.
Just curious, do you ever think big picture? Do you think it is time to move from a guy that has not coached in four plus decades?
I couldn’t care any less about what Marquette names its court, practice facilities, what patches are on their uniforms, etc. Call me crazy, but I don’t think Marquette’s on court performance changes one bit if they have DWade’s name on their jersey instead of Al’s, or the court isn’t named at all, or the practice facility is named Dick Strong Arena. Doesn’t seem to me that Kentucky has had any issues winning basketball games because they’re stuck with their arena named after a racist that coached for them over 50 years ago. To me, those things are not “big picture” items when it comes to winning basketball games. To you they are. Different strokes for different folks.
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wades
Correct, Kentucky has had no problem being big time, MU has had a problem. I know you only care about the next game and that is your call. I think celebrating the present might be a bigger help to recruiting and branding the program than having an Al night every season.
As for calling you crazy, I would say small thinking and lacking real life experience in building a brand. I actually think you believe big time program just happens if you work hard and want it badly enough.
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Goose:
I think the brand for Marquette was in a good place during the Crean/Buzz era. We produced a lot of future pros who were known for toughness and grit who also had skills . The continuity from Al and his tough gritty players with skills to the modern guys like Jimmy Wes Jae etc was something that I believe resonated in the market. We have gone a little soft under Wojo, but it does appear that he has realized that is not the way to go, and has been making adjustments to get tougher more physical players.
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wades
It is time to move on from Al. MU’s biggest ball marketing plan is throwing Al’s name around. It is time to build a new brand and on court success is needed. I would love to see MU really build a new marketing plan and let the current program build off it. MU has milked more out of Al than us old guys on here.
Just curious, do you ever think big picture? Do you think it is time to move from a guy that has not coached in four plus decades?
Goose
Marquette's idea of branding expertise is The Zizzo Group.
'Nuff said.
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Herman
Buzz was building a brand. He was winning over MKE kids and that is not easy to do. That has all been lost in last five years. MU has to work harder than UW on promoting themselves, and it does start on the court. In addition, creating a program identity off the court is big time important. Just my two cents, but I do believe they use Al as a fallback plan on marketing the program.
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Jon
Is she still in charge of branding MU? Have not seen her as much of late. But, I do agree with your post.
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Crash
Is it confirmed that Coach Peters is moving on?
According to Jen Lada it is but I have read on Scoop that Jen often makes journalistic mistakes
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And now UCLA will shoot for the level of coach they can get and still convince fans it’s a good hire - Wojo.
This is fine if it does not take the next coach 5 years to rebuild.
They could do a lot worse. The Belmont shores guy is pushing him quite hard. @trigonis30 on Twitter
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Herman
Buzz was building a brand. He was winning over MKE kids and that is not easy to do. That has all been lost in last five years. MU has to work harder than UW on promoting themselves, and it does start on the court. In addition, creating a program identity off the court is big time important. Just my two cents, but I do believe they use Al as a fallback plan on marketing the program.
I think Buzz was doing a good job bringing forward the Al brand. Doing it in a modern way of sorts. One of the reasons I was so pis234sed off about Wojo throwing Deonte under the bus, was that it somewhat screwed the pooch locally for a while.
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This paragraph sure rings familiar around here. Just replace a few names and years.
Wooden hasn’t coached since 1975. He died in 2010. Yet UCLA people still invoke his name constantly as if he will walk through the door any minute trailed by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Walton.
I know MU people are different with Al.
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I think Buzz was doing a good job bringing forward the Al brand. Doing it in a modern way of sorts. One of the reasons I was so pis234sed off about Wojo throwing Deonte under the bus, was that it somewhat screwed the pooch locally for a while.
How did Wojo throw him under the bus? Didn't Deonte say he left to get out of Wisconsin and to start fresh? He needed space.
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wades
It is time to move on from Al. MU’s biggest ball marketing plan is throwing Al’s name around. It is time to build a new brand and on court success is needed. I would love to see MU really build a new marketing plan and let the current program build off it. MU has milked more out of Al than us old guys on here.
Just curious, do you ever think big picture? Do you think it is time to move from a guy that has not coached in four plus decades?
Goose
I sometimes feel the same way. When they make yet another Al-specific event, I chuckle and say, "Yep, can't lose by going back to Al, I guess."
Then again, just look at this fan board. How often does the subject turn to Al, even when he wasn't the subject at all? We're not just fans, we're big fans. And many of us reminisce about Al in several Scoop posts per week -- some in several per day.
So why should the university dial down its "Al-ness" when it comes to basketball if fans like us are always talking about Al? They look at it as giving the big fans (and donors) what they want.
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MU 82
I would be very happy with a little less Al in the overall program. My guess is the guys on here know the Al story better than the gang at MU creating the Al moments.
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Curious how Allie feels about it
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my guess is if Al were still alive he would be disgusted with all the Al hoopala. Remember Al absolutely, but time to move on.
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my guess is if Al were still alive he would be disgusted with all the Al hoopala. Remember Al absolutely, but time to move on.
If Al were still alive he'd be asking for a cut of the action.
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MU 82
I would be very happy with a little less Al in the overall program. My guess is the guys on here know the Al story better than the gang at MU creating the Al moments.
This is probably true. As a younger alum, I saw Enberg's play last year and it added a lot of color for me. Assuming Enberg's portrayal is a pretty accurate one (he always seemed personally taken with and impacted by Al, so I don't know why it wouldn't be) it struck me how much MU has sacrificed value for volume with how and when they integrate him into the current program.