Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up

[GGGG]

come on toodles-you've got to be kidding me-gasp-reasonable people can figure out from the titles of those-ahem-scholarly writings what you may find in them-capice??  if i write a book titled how i found love staring at mens hairy bums...umm-first off-what do you think it's gonna be about??  second, i don't think it's a real resume enhancer.  next-i don't believe there will much academic merit here for even main stream thinkers.  if you want to learn about lesbos, go to a public university!  this is MARQUETTE !  we know this crap is out there-let it stay out there or go to get it yourself.  we are not here to main stream this life style.  no i'm not a homophobe.  i have a cousin who is gay and a great dude but he doesn't shove it in my face.  if dr. o'brien were a conservative lesbo, do you think she would have been considered?  i'll answer that for you-NO-so much for diversity of thought.  a conservative wouldn't feel the need to examine the sexual positions of transgenders and how to propagate internet sex-yeah, that'll earn you the big $$-maybe in san francisco, but they are a dime a bakers dozen out there-we're talking real world here baby   

I thought you had to be at least 12 to get an account on MUScoop. 

[Hards Alumni]

Wow.  Just, wow.

[Toodles1980]

come on toodles-you've got to be kidding me-gasp-reasonable people can figure out from the titles of those-ahem-scholarly writings what you may find in them-capice??  if i write a book titled how i found love staring at mens hairy bums...umm-first off-what do you think it's gonna be about??  second, i don't think it's a real resume enhancer.  next-i don't believe there will much academic merit here for even main stream thinkers.  if you want to learn about lesbos, go to a public university!  this is MARQUETTE !  we know this crap is out there-let it stay out there or go to get it yourself.  we are not here to main stream this life style.  no i'm not a homophobe.  i have a cousin who is gay and a great dude but he doesn't shove it in my face.  if dr. o'brien were a conservative lesbo, do you think she would have been considered?  i'll answer that for you-NO-so much for diversity of thought.  a conservative wouldn't feel the need to examine the sexual positions of transgenders and how to propagate internet sex-yeah, that'll earn you the big $$-maybe in san francisco, but they are a dime a bakers dozen out there-we're talking real world here baby   

So in other words, no. Good to know.

[shiloh26]

Wow.  Just, wow.

+1.  That was an abomination for so many different reasons.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Uh...because it's illegal?

And gay marriage isn't legal either, right?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gotta love what this has progressed to.  Chicos went from rational to political adgenda in 3 posts!  Who needs rationale and logic when here-say and soothsaying are available?

the simple fact of the matter is that Catholocism is due for a social update.  To continue on its current path eliminates it of clergy by 2050.  Time to evolve or go extinct. I don't intend to belittle tradition or throw conservativsm to the side.  To do so would be the ultimate mistake.  But to not expect MU or the church to change with the times is rather unrealistic.

I always find that kind of funny.  When we don't like what the church says, it's the church's fault, not us as the flock.  So it's the church that needs to change, not us.

Always an interesting take to be sure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are reading way too much into it.  Progressively responsible means that you have a career path where you garner more responsibility over time.  (ie, professor, department chair, assistant dean, dean...)

You are right, I applied a different filter based on that poster....thought he/she was implying a progressively responsible agenda.  My fault.

[foreverwarriors]

Speaking of basketball. Have we ever had a gay coach? Just axin'.

I've been told Terri Mitchell swings the other way...and seeing her in public w/ another woman doesn't make me question it.

or were you just talking about mens bball coaches?

[foreverwarriors]

"Listening Sessions" scheduled by admin for students and faculty.

Looks like they will be Tuesday at 5:30

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/93174084.html

Also of note in the article, "A university spokeswoman had scheduled an interview between President Father Robert A. Wild and a Journal Sentinel reporter and editorial writer Friday, but later canceled the meeting, saying this was now a legal situation."

[Ari Gold]

And gay marriage isn't legal either, right?

Uhh.....
In Wisconsin, gay marriage is banned constitutionally. In Washington it is illegal via a state statue. 41 states have a constitutional ban or a state statue that prohibits gay marriage. Only 5 states allow it. 4 states have no specific law.

Uhh......

[wyzgy]

So I take it you've read each of those articles and books, and determined their academic merit based on the content and not the titles correct?

ok toodles-you are on the search committee-go ahead and read(i'll wait for cribs notes) some of her drivel and get back to me. let me know if she/he is worthy of the dean position at our great academic institution(concerns me somewhat now) i just thought i was saving you some time.  i am an alum,have two kids presently enrolled.  one about to graduate and one with some years to go.  i have donated a lot of money to this school that i am having trouble recognising.  i may have to think long and hard about leaving my second son there and they may just be saving me a lot more money in the future with any more boneheaded decisons like this.  my son just may beg me to leave there and go him to madison-at least you know what to expect there. we need fr. wild to hurry up and leave before his scorched earth policy at this school gets any worse.  maybe go and live in his fairy-tale world and write books with this o'brien person.  hopefully the next president has a set

[Blackhat]

If you look at her publications it's almost solely in regard to sexuality.   She could be the sex studies dean. 

 There's not much diversity in her scholarship.

[Toodles1980]

ok toodles-you are on the search committee-go ahead and read(i'll wait for cribs notes) some of her drivel and get back to me. let me know if she/he is worthy of the dean position at our great academic institution(concerns me somewhat now) i just thought i was saving you some time.  i am an alum,have two kids presently enrolled.  one about to graduate and one with some years to go.  i have donated a lot of money to this school that i am having trouble recognising.  i may have to think long and hard about leaving my second son there and they may just be saving me a lot more money in the future with any more boneheaded decisons like this.  my son just may beg me to leave there and go him to madison-at least you know what to expect there. we need fr. wild to hurry up and leave before his scorched earth policy at this school gets any worse.  maybe go and live in his fairy-tale world and write books with this o'brien person.  hopefully the next president has a set

I would recommend Liberty University for your son, there you know exactly what kind of education he will be getting. I too am an alum, and want the university to grow stronger, while maintaining it's statement of human dignity. I don't plan on reading her work, because I know what academic writing is like and who it's audience is supposed to be and I have no way of rating it's merits. I have serious doubts that you have those skills as well.

[Moonboots]

If you look at her publications it's almost solely in regard to sexuality.   She could be the sex studies dean. 

 There's not much diversity in her scholarship.

This is the thing that was curious to me.  As a student right now, I'm sitting back and soaking in the entire thing before making a judgment on what's going on.

I'll admit defeat by having never been part of a dean search before, but to me, I would think you would want to find someone with at least a moderate breadth of research.

Let's assume for a moment that their reason for rescinding the offer had everything to do with the fact that the entire scope of her research followed a single line, whether or not it had to do with sexuality. I would still think that would qualify as a mistake. It's just that, given this set of circumstances, no one will ever buy the academic excuse, whether it's true or not.  We've seen that in the scathing articles and uproar from quick-to-jump-the-gun student protests.

Still, it begs the question, HOW did she get so far in this search given the reaction that should have been easily foreseen? I think the situation plays out differently if she has dabbled in research in most areas represented in our arts and sciences college, with a more complete expertise in a number of areas maybe including, but not limited to, sexuality. 

The fact that she is a lesbian, despite it being a hot button issue on the church, shouldn't affect the search if she proves as an academic that she won't let it become a problem and clash with the identity of our university.

But when your research library looks like this: http://www.seattleu.edu/artsci/women/default.aspx?id=2708

...exactly what else does she have to draw upon? Her entire post-graduate academic work promotes homosexuality and her view of it.  I'm sure she's quite an intelligent woman, but the search committee should have seen the writing on the wall long before we got to this point.

[Toodles1980]

If you look at her publications it's almost solely in regard to sexuality.   She could be the sex studies dean. 

 There's not much diversity in her scholarship.

Here's a link to the other finalist's page: http://history.binghamton.edu/faculty/brown.htm , I guess he could have only been Dean of the French Revolution. What could Marquette have been thinking, such a narrow research focus.

[wyzgy]

bravo to moonboots-very well said-while her sexual preference doesn't really matter to me as long as it's not the essence of the person's teachings.  it seems as though she sees everything through a prism of sexuality-mainly lesbian sexuality and it would be difficult to ascertain that she would not project this belief system throughout her leadership as a dean here.  you know the saying-if all i had was a hammer...everything looks like a nail.  moonboots-as a student you probably have the best post i have read here-thank you-to my friend toodles-no need to worry about me, but i do believe mu could learn a little from liberty college and standing for some principles and sticking to them rather than testing the waters beyond the boundaries of basic catholicism and pushing the envelope-then you become madison.

[Toodles1980]

This is the thing that was curious to me.  As a student right now, I'm sitting back and soaking in the entire thing before making a judgment on what's going on.

I'll admit defeat by having never been part of a dean search before, but to me, I would think you would want to find someone with at least a moderate breadth of research.

Let's assume for a moment that their reason for rescinding the offer had everything to do with the fact that the entire scope of her research followed a single line, whether or not it had to do with sexuality. I would still think that would qualify as a mistake. It's just that, given this set of circumstances, no one will ever buy the academic excuse, whether it's true or not.  We've seen that in the scathing articles and uproar from quick-to-jump-the-gun student protests.

Still, it begs the question, HOW did she get so far in this search given the reaction that should have been easily foreseen? I think the situation plays out differently if she has dabbled in research in most areas represented in our arts and sciences college, with a more complete expertise in a number of areas maybe including, but not limited to, sexuality. 

The fact that she is a lesbian, despite it being a hot button issue on the church, shouldn't affect the search if she proves as an academic that she won't let it become a problem and clash with the identity of our university.

But when your research library looks like this: http://www.seattleu.edu/artsci/women/default.aspx?id=2708

...exactly what else does she have to draw upon? Her entire post-graduate academic work promotes homosexuality and her view of it.  I'm sure she's quite an intelligent woman, but the search committee should have seen the writing on the wall long before we got to this point.

Did you happen to look at the other finalist? He never leaves the French Revolution. Academics don't have a breadth of research. Every single one of your professors currently has a focus that is quite narrow. Again, here is the link to the other finalist's page at Binghamton University: http://history.binghamton.edu/faculty/brown.htm. Does his research show a breadth of research interests? Would you be as opposed to him becoming a dean because of the narrow focus of his research?

[mu_hilltopper]

The search committee knew her work, and that she was a lesbian.

Fr. Wild, upon offering her the deanship, knew her work, and knew she was a lesbian.

Clearly, the search committee, and Fr. Wild knew who they were hiring at the time of the hiring.  This proves they were NOT homophobic, anti-gay, anti-lesbian in their hiring decision.    Took a lot of courage to do that from all parties, knowing the controversy it would stir.  Unfortunately, they (Fr. Wild) didn't have enough chips to stand by his decision and lost the pot.

The only thing in doubt is what happened from the moment of the job offer, to the moment of rescinding the job offer.  

It's pretty clear that an external force tipped the balance, Marquette wasn't 100% committed to defending their new dean, and capitulated to the external force.

[shiloh26]

bravo to moonboots-very well said-while her sexual preference doesn't really matter to me as long as it's not the essence of the person's teachings.  it seems as though she sees everything through a prism of sexuality-mainly lesbian sexuality and it would be difficult to ascertain that she would not project this belief system throughout her leadership as a dean here.  you know the saying-if all i had was a hammer...everything looks like a nail.  moonboots-as a student you probably have the best post i have read here-thank you-to my friend toodles-no need to worry about me, but i do believe mu could learn a little from liberty college and standing for some principles and sticking to them rather than testing the waters beyond the boundaries of basic catholicism and pushing the envelope-then you become madison.

Yeah, we should be just like Liberty... maybe we should start up our own "Creation Studies" program, replace those heathens over in Biology. 

https://www.liberty.edu/academics/index.cfm?PID=9821

Unlike Liberty, Marquette is committed to actually educating its students by providing an academically diverse campus and faculty rather than confirming what they already believed for their whole lives. 

I'm just interested, since you are so opposed to having homosexuals teaching classes that involve discussions about sexuality because it is 'beyond the boundaries of basic Catholicism", do you also oppose our having Jewish professors on campus, teaching classes about Jewish theology?  Buddhists and Taoists teaching Eastern Philosophy and theology?  What exactly do you think MU classrooms should look like?  I mean, should we just meld the entire A&S college into a big "Aquinas" class? 

[Sir Lawrence]

It's pretty clear that an external force tipped the balance, Marquette wasn't 100% committed to defending their new dean, and capitulated to the external force.

That is precisely what I'm hearing, only it's odd that those doing the sharing don't know who that external force is. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The fact that what defined her was her sexuality and not her academic accomplishments raises a flag for me. Who cares what they do in private,including drinking some outrageous concoctions-described on another thread. I'm late to this discussion but ,if MU backed down from pressure, the case for her must not have been that strong. I want to see people that raise the status of the school not confirm a PC bent.

[Moonboots]

Did you happen to look at the other finalist? He never leaves the French Revolution. Academics don't have a breadth of research. Every single one of your professors currently has a focus that is quite narrow. Again, here is the link to the other finalist's page at Binghamton University: http://history.binghamton.edu/faculty/brown.htm. Does his research show a breadth of research interests? Would you be as opposed to him becoming a dean because of the narrow focus of his research?

I admitted early in my post that I was unfamiliar with how Dean searches work, and what exactly we would or should be looking for.  I wouldn't be opposed to him becoming the Dean OR her becoming the Dean, but they can't do the search in a vacuum without weighing the necessary implications of what reactions a hire may cause. Influential people within the university (read: donors, tenured professors, etc.) likely would never draw issue with the French Revolution.  They may or may not draw issue with homosexuality, given the religious culture of the institution. That's where the "good fit for the university" thing comes in.  Granted, she was in a position of power at a Jesuit university in Seattle, and it never caused issue there.

It just seems to me that the search committee may not have crossed their t's and dotted their i's with regards to how people may react to the hire.

Allow me to flip your "French Revolution" question back at you for a moment.  Assume they hired him, then rescinded the offer for the same reasons they used to rescind the offer from Ms. O'Brien. Does anyone blink an eye? Does it make national news? Of course not, because he's a heterosexual male. Ms. O'Brien is a very intelligent woman, and I'm sure she knows, given her field of study and its open connection to her sexual preference, that she's a lightning rod for strong reactions in one direction or the other.  Marquette had to know this too, and if they were going to give her the job, they should have a) been fully supportive of her undertaking this position and b ) be ready to take on any and all critics that have a connection to the university.

Let me reiterate, I have no problem with Jodi O'Brien. And I have no problem with anyone Marquette hires, so long as they're qualified, passionate about the position, and willing to help build and promote what the school's mission statement stands for. In fact, I had an openly lesbian sociology professor earlier in my undergrad time here, and the class and content (some relating to sexuality in society) was very interesting. Diversity in that case definitely added to the value of the class.

But the search committee seems to have bit off more than they could chew with this fiasco, and maybe that means taking the search in that direction in the first place was a poor idea if they were never 100% committed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Uhh.....
In Wisconsin, gay marriage is banned constitutionally. In Washington it is illegal via a state statue. 41 states have a constitutional ban or a state statue that prohibits gay marriage. Only 5 states allow it. 4 states have no specific law.

Uhh......

Correct, gay marriage isn't legal either.  That's why I didn't understand the guy's point that polygamy is illegal....so is gay marriage.  Seems to wipe out his argument.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's a link to the other finalist's page: http://history.binghamton.edu/faculty/brown.htm , I guess he could have only been Dean of the French Revolution. What could Marquette have been thinking, such a narrow research focus.

Marquette is famous of late making searches with few candidates or none at all.

[Hards Alumni]

Marquette is famous of late making searches with few candidates or none at all.

boom! roasted!