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Author Topic: When does the Crean legacy fade away?  (Read 5352 times)

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2013, 08:55:04 AM »
Quote from: hairyworthen on March 21, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
Crean will fade away (at least on this board) when certain posters stop incessently defending him and qualifying the currrent regimes acomplishments.

 Is it just coincidence that when a certain poster was banned the crean threads slowed way down. When said poster returns, the Crean threads increase.

Creans legacy is bringing the program back to prominence, but not taking it to the next level. Even if he had stayed, I beleive he had reached his ceiling with MU. He wasn't able or willing to take it to the next level like Buzz has.

Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   ;)
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2013, 09:00:27 AM »
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 01:14:41 AM
So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

Crean's legacy will never fade away. He accomplished something only one other coach in our history was able to accomplish.

I'm curious where this "peer pressure" comes from. Why would students of today have an automatic dislike of Crean? His top accomplishment came when you were 10 and he left Marquette before any of you entered the University.

It's embarrassingly childish and pathetic when the Bradley Center crowd acts like a bunch of tough guy bro dudes and boo Crean when his image floats for a second on an overly sappy pregame video. unnatural carnal knowledgeing mature and deal with it, clowns.
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2013, 09:01:14 AM »
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 21, 2013, 07:56:10 AM
First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

Wow...this is so incredibly spot on.  Credit where credit is due, flaws spotted.  Regarding the One on One...I am friends with a HS coach who has produced a lot of D1 talent.  We'd see TC at a Brewers game etc and as TC was walking over, my buddy would say: "Watch this he will lead with X and go to Y"  Sure enough, every time.  It was very uncomfortable.  Now I don't envy that when TC takes Riley to a Brewers game that he has to be Mr. Networker, but my guy has access to great players.  And the inability to generate real conversation was odd.
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The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

Hards Alumni

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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2013, 09:04:16 AM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 08:55:04 AM
Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   ;)


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Logged

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2013, 09:05:51 AM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 08:55:04 AM
Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   ;)

There were some Crean threads while you were gone, but not as many and not as long. I do not think IU success has anything to do with it. We had plenty of “Crean pissing match threads” when IU sucked.

Personally, you stirring the pot does not bother me. I just read the threads that interest me and ignore the others. Your good posts way out weigh your bad in my opinion, but you certainly like to stir the pot.  You have to know that constantly defending Crean and bringing up IU success is going to draw the ire of a MU fan board.


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« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2013, 09:24:29 AM »
You mean leprosy, right?
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"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2013, 10:01:29 AM »
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2013, 09:04:16 AM

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I had to quote this so people had to scroll through it again.
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2013, 10:35:19 AM »
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2013, 07:27:56 AM


Until then, there will always be people here to laugh at him and rip him, and there will be others who will rush to his defense like he is their only child.

Reminds me of you when we used to have political discussions here and you would defend certain folks \ policies like they were your only child.  Ironic. Maybe banning all TC related threads is ideal, be fine by me.
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« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2013, 10:45:52 AM »
Crean's legacy will not fade away since it is tied to an MU legend in DWade and a Final Four.

Only winning a Final Four or NCAA championship can push him further back into the closet.

I am a Crean despiser; not for what he did for MU, but how he treated that last group of guys...his "family".

No wonder Wessy doesn't tweet about his a$$ and vice-versa.
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SS Marquette

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I thought about posting this in its own thread, but thought .. why spawn another Crean vs. Buzz thread?

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/article/3212013-BuzzvsCreanMarquetteFansMayFinallyGetTheirWish
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2013, 11:10:58 AM »
Long before the I4 media guide ceases to celebrate Marquette basketball.
Logged
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

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« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2013, 12:15:17 PM »
Quote from: hairyworthen on March 21, 2013, 09:05:51 AM
There were some Crean threads while you were gone, but not as many and not as long. I do not think IU success has anything to do with it. We had plenty of “Crean pissing match threads” when IU sucked.

Personally, you stirring the pot does not bother me. I just read the threads that interest me and ignore the others. Your good posts way out weigh your bad in my opinion, but you certainly like to stir the pot.  You have to know that constantly defending Crean and bringing up IU success is going to draw the ire of a MU fan board.




I don't start the threads. Seems to me that there are 4 or 5 guys here the consistently start the threads....take it up with them.  Those are the pot stirrers. 



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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2013, 12:16:29 PM »
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 01:14:41 AM
So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

If Buzz bolts he will be competing with Crean for scoop time.



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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2013, 12:19:19 PM »
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 21, 2013, 10:45:52 AM
Crean's legacy will not fade away since it is tied to an MU legend in DWade and a Final Four.

Only winning a Final Four or NCAA championship can push him further back into the closet.

I am a Crean despiser; not for what he did for MU, but how he treated that last group of guys...his "family".

No wonder Wessy doesn't tweet about his a$$ and vice-versa.

Yup, he blew that one big time in how it was handled.  What is interesting is the other players do interact, tweet, etc with him. Novak, Travis, Wade, Robert Jackson, etc.   I don't blame Wes or the others at all. Just as I wouldn't blame New Orleans players if they felt that way toward Buzz.  Or Pitt players toward Ben Howland.  Or MU players toward K.O.  It's unfortunate, but happens in that business.
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2013, 12:20:24 PM »
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 21, 2013, 11:03:27 AM
I thought about posting this in its own thread, but thought .. why spawn another Crean vs. Buzz thread?

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/article/3212013-BuzzvsCreanMarquetteFansMayFinallyGetTheirWish

dumb article... For one thing Buzz is far more dapper than TC
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"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2013, 12:22:35 PM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 12:19:19 PM
Yup, he blew that one big time in how it was handled.  What is interesting is the other players do interact, tweet, etc with him. Novak, Travis, Wade, Robert Jackson, etc.   I don't blame Wes or the others at all. Just as I wouldn't blame New Orleans players if they felt that way toward Buzz.  Or Pitt players toward Ben Howland.  Or MU players toward K.O.  It's unfortunate, but happens in that business.
did the same thing exist when Dick Bennet left Wisconsin?
Logged
"Half a billion we used to do about every two months...or as my old boss would say, 'you're on the hook for $8 million a day come hell or high water-.    Never missed in 6 years." - Chico apropos of nothing

Hards Alumni

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2013, 12:24:34 PM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 10:35:19 AM
Reminds me of you when we used to have political discussions here and you would defend certain folks \ policies like they were your only child.  Ironic. Maybe banning all TC related threads is ideal, be fine by me.

Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2013, 12:27:48 PM »
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 21, 2013, 07:08:21 AM
Amen. You keep picking at that scab and the wound will never heal.

Shakespeare wrote of, "The wound that never heals."

But that's a very different thing.
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Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2013, 12:28:11 PM »
By the way maybe I'm alone on this one but I don't perceive that MU is the only fan group to dislike Crean. I think he's a douche, but while he was building MU (and he did do a lot here) I defended him because he was working each day on making our program better.

Now he is not our coach, and he acts like a douche periodically. He isn't working hard to further MU's bball program so I call a spade a spade. He is a douche.

I don't think Buzz is a douche regardless of whether he coached here or not. If he left how Crean left I'd probably not like it.

In the meantime, I just cheer for Marquette guys. And Buzz is a Marquette guy. So is LW, Pilarz, and all of our current and former players.

But Crean is still a douche and that doesn't depend on him losing in the first round or winning a NC
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 12:42:37 PM »
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 21, 2013, 12:22:35 PM
did the same thing exist when Dick Bennet left Wisconsin?

He retired.  Didn't resume his career until a few years later.


Look, a big part of this is what happens next...how much of a threat is the guy.  KO was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he flamed out hard...he was no threat.  TC was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he's a threat (both real and in the emotional imaginations from some here).  He gets good recruits (some that we go after), he's in the Midwest, he had success after MU despite predictions to the contrary. 

When a coach leaves and bombs elsewhere, they become accepted, it's ok, water under the bridge.  If they have success again a decade or two later, well good for them.  If TC left and pulled a KO and bombed for the next 15 years, there wouldn't be near the animosity.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2013, 12:45:38 PM »
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2013, 12:24:34 PM
Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?

Being a douche and being a successful coach are two different things.  I don't defend his doucheness, in fact I have condemned it often.  I defend what he has accomplished at MU and IU in terms of basketball, especially when people just make garbage up or have no facts.  Plenty of douche CEOs, coaches, etc, but they still are amazingly successful.  There's a difference.   So yes, seriously.  Your guy in the WH, douche, but you still defend him..right?
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keefe

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2013, 12:46:46 PM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 08:52:45 AM
Disagree.  Immature fans hate Roy Williams...people with emotional issues.  Roy did a lot for KU.  Some people can't get over the fact that people leave jobs, schools, etc.  Butt hurt is strong with some people....mostly on message boards.   ;)

Chicos, you don't get it. This is not about how Crean left Marquette, even though that was outrageous in its own right. This is about how that guy treats people. He is a user and his general approach is to crap on everyone unless he sees something in you that he can use to his advantage. The Jeff Meyer Incident is classic Crean. That had nothing to do with Meyer but everything to do with Crean.

Leadership is simple. Take care of your people. That is the job description for an Air Force Squadron Commander. It says nothing about flying jets, dropping bombs, winning wars. It says take care of your people. You have been given this authority because you are responsible for taking care of your men and women.

Problem with Tanned Tommy is he sees authority and power as his due and the people exist to take care of him. Huge difference. And unless you can see that then you will never understand the disdain in which many hold Crean.  
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4everwarriors

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2013, 12:47:41 PM »
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 21, 2013, 12:42:37 PM
He retired.  Didn't resume his career until a few years later.


Look, a big part of this is what happens next...how much of a threat is the guy.  KO was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he flamed out hard...he was no threat.  TC was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he's a threat (both real and in the emotional imaginations from some here).  He gets good recruits (some that we go after), he's in the Midwest, he had success after MU despite predictions to the contrary. 

When a coach leaves and bombs elsewhere, they become accepted, it's ok, water under the bridge.  If they have success again a decade or two later, well good for them.  If TC left and pulled a KO and bombed for the next 15 years, there wouldn't be near the animosity.


Some of us would just say, " I told you so."
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2013, 12:48:31 PM »
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 21, 2013, 12:28:11 PM
By the way maybe I'm alone on this one but I don't perceive that MU is the only fan group to dislike Crean. I think he's a douche, but while he was building MU (and he did do a lot here) I defended him because he was working each day on making our program better.

Now he is not our coach, and he acts like a douche periodically. He isn't working hard to further MU's bball program so I call a spade a spade. He is a douche.

I don't think Buzz is a douche regardless of whether he coached here or not. If he left how Crean left I'd probably not like it.

In the meantime, I just cheer for Marquette guys. And Buzz is a Marquette guy. So is LW, Pilarz, and all of our current and former players.

But Crean is still a douche and that doesn't depend on him losing in the first round or winning a NC

Absolutely agreed.  Of course, this is also part and parcel with many blue blood programs.  Look how many people hate Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Bellichek, Bob Knight, Coach Cal, etc, etc.  Doucheness is often attached to many successful people, CEOs, coaches, etc. 

I think Buzz isn't a douche, then again you go to other fan sites and plenty think he is.  Ask WVU fans about him.  Ask Wisconsin fans about him.  Ask New Orleans fans about him.  It just is what it is.
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Re: When does the Crean legacy fade away?
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2013, 12:58:09 PM »
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 21, 2013, 12:24:34 PM
Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?

Post of the millennium.
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