When does the Crean legacy fade away?

[Galway Eagle]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

[keefe]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

Buzz did indeed have a rebuilding effort. Crean's treachery cost us the stars of the incoming class and some others in years out. Buzz was fortunate that his first year had all the seniors returning but we saw the impact of Crean's treason over the next few years when we had Cubillan and Acker starting. It is a credit to Buzz that he kept things moving forward. Tremendous job by a gifted leader. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take?  

Crean had 3 "early" exits, though one was as an 8 seed vs a 9 seed and one of our star players in cast.

We lost as a 7 to a 10.

We lost as a 5 to a 12

When we lost to Stanford, we were a 6 seed and supposed to lose to them as they were the 3 seed...82-81 in OT.

When we made the Final Four, we weren't even supposed to get that far, but upset Pitt (2 seed) and Kentucky (1 seed)


Treachery....I wonder if Keefe ever left a job for a better job.  LOL.  That's what Crean did, that's what coaches do...was Buzz treacherous for leaving New Orleans?  According to Keefe...yes.

[Galway Eagle]

Crean had 3 "early" exits, though one was as an 8 seed vs a 9 seed and one of our star players in cast.

We lost as a 7 to a 10.

We lost as a 5 to a 12

When we lost to Stanford, we were a 6 seed and supposed to lose to them as they were the 3 seed...82-81 in OT.

When we made the Final Four, we weren't even supposed to get that far, but upset Pitt (2 seed) and Kentucky (1 seed)


Treachery....I wonder if Keefe ever left a job for a better job.  LOL.  That's what Crean did, that's what coaches do...was Buzz treacherous for leaving New Orleans?  According to Keefe...yes.

I didn't mean early as we were the favorites.  I meant early as in we left and came home a very short while later.  Though picking apart that wasn't remotely the point of the question. 

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz did indeed have a rebuilding effort. Crean's treachery cost us the stars of the incoming class and some others in years out. Buzz was fortunate that his first year had all the seniors returning but we saw the impact of Crean's treason over the next few years when we had Cubillan and Acker starting. It is a credit to Buzz that he kept things moving forward. Tremendous job by a gifted leader. 

Sorry I just meant like a rebuilding effort where we have awful seasons.  Al, Crean, and O'Neil all had them.  I suppose Deane did to but I consider making the NIT finals at least the best of a bad situation. 

[keefe]

Not sure I would say Crean left a legacy at Marquette.

[Galway Eagle]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

[keefe]

Sorry I just meant like a rebuilding effort where we have awful seasons.  Al, Crean, and O'Neil all had them.  I suppose Deane did to but I consider making the NIT finals at least the best of a bad situation. 

Precisely the point and much to Buzz Williams' tremendous credit. Crean's April Fool's Outrage caused several of the best recruits to bail on Marquette. And yet Buzz managed to build something better. There was no dip in performance as happened at Marquette in 2004 when a Final Four participant failed to make The Dance and suffered the humiliation of playing in the NIT.

I would offer this season as a compelling case in point. Marquette lost two of its best ever players to the Show and once again the pundits forecast doom. But Buzz Williams not only managed to disprove the experts by winning but he took Marquette to the top rung of America's premiere College Basketball Conference. There was no rebuilding period with Buzz Williams.

[keefe]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

As long as we continue to witness outrages such as we saw last week at the Crisler Arena the man shall remain topical. If the entire sports erupted in dismay and horror why would the Marquette faithful not feel embarrassed by the man's disgusting behavior?

[tower912]

Crean worked his butt off to market Marquette.   His legacy was that he got MU into conversations they hadn't been in for a long time.     Which was being a year-in year-out good team.  Buzz has continued, built, and improved upon that.    Deane was a good XO coach, but his recruiting meant that no one ever saw MU has a team that could make a run.   KO wasn't at MU long enough to build a foundation for long-term success.   Crean put in that foundation.   

[jficke13]

Crean will fade away as soon as idiots on this board and elsewhere stop paying so much freaking attention to him.

[Avenue Commons]

Crean will fade away as soon as idiots on this board and elsewhere stop paying so much freaking attention to him.

Amen. You keep picking at that scab and the wound will never heal.

[Aughnanure]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

[connie]

Whatever "legacy" there was is gone.  There is a history, and I can't see why we would want to forget that.  The anger, bitterness and other feelings are personal, and as long as he continues to be the shallow, self-promoting douche he is (ie-his post-Michigan antics) I don't see that abating for awhile.

[Hards Alumni]

The dislike for Crean here will probably disappear when we've gotten to a final four, or when he gets fired at IU.

Until then, there will always be people here to laugh at him and rip him, and there will be others who will rush to his defense like he is their only child.

[tower912]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

Pretty sure Kentucky fans still say mean things about Pitino, too. 

[Sylvester78]

A con artist who did in fact do some good things at Marquette.
The flameout in the coming weeks will be adorable

[Dr. Blackheart]

First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

[MUMonster03]

The problem is Crean can't just be dismissed as much as everyone wishes he could.

The man laid the ground work for a program that up until recently was only known as a school which was really good back in the 70's and won a championship with one of the biggest personalities to ever coach.

We had been spinning our wheels for years with an occasional tournament appearance and like it or not Crean came in, changed the tires, and set the car down the right path. If he had stayed who knows if it would have gotten better, stayed the same, or fallen off but what he did to put us back on the map and start spending on the program again can not be ignored.

Buzz has taken that car, tuned the engine, ad if he can get us another final four or a championship will have it right back to where it was running in the 70's.

[brewcity77]

Never 

[hairy worthen]

Crean will fade away (at least on this board) when certain posters stop incessently defending him and qualifying the currrent regimes acomplishments.

 Is it just coincidence that when a certain poster was banned the crean threads slowed way down. When said poster returns, the Crean threads increase.

Creans legacy is bringing the program back to prominence, but not taking it to the next level. Even if he had stayed, I beleive he had reached his ceiling with MU. He wasn't able or willing to take it to the next level like Buzz has.

[Marqevans]

Ok not trying to turn this into another is Crean good or not thread I wanted to know when Crean is just a thing of the past that was decent but nothing outstanding like we look at O'Neil and Deane. 

When Marquette beats Indiana in the NCAA tournament?

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

already faded for me

[tower912]

First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

Well put.   Can't argue with much.   I was over his leaving within weeks of him going.   Now, I just want MU to do better than IU.   This hurts because I was a huge IU fan during the Bobby Knight era.   Loved that motion offense and man defense.   Now I just want them to lose. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Kansas fans still hate Roy Williams, but Bill Self helps.

Disagree.  Immature fans hate Roy Williams...people with emotional issues.  Roy did a lot for KU.  Some people can't get over the fact that people leave jobs, schools, etc.  Butt hurt is strong with some people....mostly on message boards.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean will fade away (at least on this board) when certain posters stop incessently defending him and qualifying the currrent regimes acomplishments.

 Is it just coincidence that when a certain poster was banned the crean threads slowed way down. When said poster returns, the Crean threads increase.

Creans legacy is bringing the program back to prominence, but not taking it to the next level. Even if he had stayed, I beleive he had reached his ceiling with MU. He wasn't able or willing to take it to the next level like Buzz has.

Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   

[Golden Avalanche]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

Crean's legacy will never fade away. He accomplished something only one other coach in our history was able to accomplish.

I'm curious where this "peer pressure" comes from. Why would students of today have an automatic dislike of Crean? His top accomplishment came when you were 10 and he left Marquette before any of you entered the University.

It's embarrassingly childish and pathetic when the Bradley Center crowd acts like a bunch of tough guy bro dudes and boo Crean when his image floats for a second on an overly sappy pregame video. unnatural carnal knowledgeing mature and deal with it, clowns.

[The Lens]

First of all, Crean is a tireless self-promoter...a program builder. This is great when he is rebuilding, but he can be his own worst enemy when he is winning.  He has no volume control on the publicity, but this is what drives him...and he has done it well....but it is also alienating when he hits his wear out level.

As a basketball coach, he is flawed.  Great at game prep and complexity as seen by the number of plays in his play book.  But in game situations, he tends to panic and his teams reflect this.  He has not proved much in this area and you can tell he is insecure about this...and this is an area where his peers don't respect him.

As a recruiter, he is hot and cold.  He really doesn't like that part of the game, and in that regard he may be better fit for the pro game.  The Indiana job interested him as he felt that the recruits would just sign up because it is I4..and in fact after a rocky start, they are. But, he doesn't like part of the job, he is not a gym rat, and in fact, he isn't very good at it naturally one on one, talking to the mom's, etc.  He does run a clean program generally, and is good with the academics.

To summarize, he loves us talking about him as it keeps his name in the paper.  He is flawed and out there in the press, so we will talk about him as he is polarizing.  He has the #1 preseason team, can he drive that bus home like he desperately wants to personally?   Who doesn't want to watch that?

Wow...this is so incredibly spot on.  Credit where credit is due, flaws spotted.  Regarding the One on One...I am friends with a HS coach who has produced a lot of D1 talent.  We'd see TC at a Brewers game etc and as TC was walking over, my buddy would say: "Watch this he will lead with X and go to Y"  Sure enough, every time.  It was very uncomfortable.  Now I don't envy that when TC takes Riley to a Brewers game that he has to be Mr. Networker, but my guy has access to great players.  And the inability to generate real conversation was odd.

[Hards Alumni]

Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   

[hairy worthen]

Is it just coincidence that IU is doing a lot better now and the butt hurt is more pronounced than ever?  I'll bet if you go back and look, there were plenty of anti-TC threads started when I was gone...it's just that the lemmings who believe 100% of the nonsense now actually have to hear a few facts of truth as well.   

There were some Crean threads while you were gone, but not as many and not as long. I do not think IU success has anything to do with it. We had plenty of “Crean pissing match threads” when IU sucked.

Personally, you stirring the pot does not bother me. I just read the threads that interest me and ignore the others. Your good posts way out weigh your bad in my opinion, but you certainly like to stir the pot.  You have to know that constantly defending Crean and bringing up IU success is going to draw the ire of a MU fan board.

[4everwarriors]

You mean leprosy, right?

[jeffreyweee]

I had to quote this so people had to scroll through it again.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Until then, there will always be people here to laugh at him and rip him, and there will be others who will rush to his defense like he is their only child.

Reminds me of you when we used to have political discussions here and you would defend certain folks \ policies like they were your only child.  Ironic. Maybe banning all TC related threads is ideal, be fine by me.

[77ncaachamps]

Crean's legacy will not fade away since it is tied to an MU legend in DWade and a Final Four.

Only winning a Final Four or NCAA championship can push him further back into the closet.

I am a Crean despiser; not for what he did for MU, but how he treated that last group of guys...his "family".

No wonder Wessy doesn't tweet about his a$$ and vice-versa.

[mu_hilltopper]

I thought about posting this in its own thread, but thought .. why spawn another Crean vs. Buzz thread?

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/article/3212013-BuzzvsCreanMarquetteFansMayFinallyGetTheirWish

[Jay Bee]

Long before the I4 media guide ceases to celebrate Marquette basketball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

There were some Crean threads while you were gone, but not as many and not as long. I do not think IU success has anything to do with it. We had plenty of “Crean pissing match threads” when IU sucked.

Personally, you stirring the pot does not bother me. I just read the threads that interest me and ignore the others. Your good posts way out weigh your bad in my opinion, but you certainly like to stir the pot.  You have to know that constantly defending Crean and bringing up IU success is going to draw the ire of a MU fan board.

I don't start the threads. Seems to me that there are 4 or 5 guys here the consistently start the threads....take it up with them.  Those are the pot stirrers. 

[79Warrior]

So I've only been following MU since Buzz's first year and came here the next.  So I have no attatchment to Crean but I seem to automatically dislike him out of peer pressure.  When does his legacy fade away though?  I mean we laugh at O'Neil and Deane and their legacy is pretty much gone but Crean remains.  is 5 NCAA tournaments one of which is a Final Four able to be washed away if we make another Sweet 16?  Elite 8? I mean the way I see it Buzz had no rebuilding era, Crean did, Crean had 4 early exits, Buzz had 2 (maybe 3).  What does it take? 

If Buzz bolts he will be competing with Crean for scoop time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean's legacy will not fade away since it is tied to an MU legend in DWade and a Final Four.

Only winning a Final Four or NCAA championship can push him further back into the closet.

I am a Crean despiser; not for what he did for MU, but how he treated that last group of guys...his "family".

No wonder Wessy doesn't tweet about his a$$ and vice-versa.

Yup, he blew that one big time in how it was handled.  What is interesting is the other players do interact, tweet, etc with him. Novak, Travis, Wade, Robert Jackson, etc.   I don't blame Wes or the others at all. Just as I wouldn't blame New Orleans players if they felt that way toward Buzz.  Or Pitt players toward Ben Howland.  Or MU players toward K.O.  It's unfortunate, but happens in that business.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

I thought about posting this in its own thread, but thought .. why spawn another Crean vs. Buzz thread?

http://www.milwaukeemag.com/article/3212013-BuzzvsCreanMarquetteFansMayFinallyGetTheirWish

dumb article... For one thing Buzz is far more dapper than TC

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Yup, he blew that one big time in how it was handled.  What is interesting is the other players do interact, tweet, etc with him. Novak, Travis, Wade, Robert Jackson, etc.   I don't blame Wes or the others at all. Just as I wouldn't blame New Orleans players if they felt that way toward Buzz.  Or Pitt players toward Ben Howland.  Or MU players toward K.O.  It's unfortunate, but happens in that business.

did the same thing exist when Dick Bennet left Wisconsin?

[Hards Alumni]

Reminds me of you when we used to have political discussions here and you would defend certain folks \ policies like they were your only child.  Ironic. Maybe banning all TC related threads is ideal, be fine by me.

Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?

[keefe]

Amen. You keep picking at that scab and the wound will never heal.

Shakespeare wrote of, "The wound that never heals."

But that's a very different thing.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

By the way maybe I'm alone on this one but I don't perceive that MU is the only fan group to dislike Crean. I think he's a douche, but while he was building MU (and he did do a lot here) I defended him because he was working each day on making our program better.

Now he is not our coach, and he acts like a douche periodically. He isn't working hard to further MU's bball program so I call a spade a spade. He is a douche.

I don't think Buzz is a douche regardless of whether he coached here or not. If he left how Crean left I'd probably not like it.

In the meantime, I just cheer for Marquette guys. And Buzz is a Marquette guy. So is LW, Pilarz, and all of our current and former players.

But Crean is still a douche and that doesn't depend on him losing in the first round or winning a NC

[ChicosBailBonds]

did the same thing exist when Dick Bennet left Wisconsin?

He retired.  Didn't resume his career until a few years later.


Look, a big part of this is what happens next...how much of a threat is the guy.  KO was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he flamed out hard...he was no threat.  TC was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he's a threat (both real and in the emotional imaginations from some here).  He gets good recruits (some that we go after), he's in the Midwest, he had success after MU despite predictions to the contrary. 

When a coach leaves and bombs elsewhere, they become accepted, it's ok, water under the bridge.  If they have success again a decade or two later, well good for them.  If TC left and pulled a KO and bombed for the next 15 years, there wouldn't be near the animosity.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?

Being a douche and being a successful coach are two different things.  I don't defend his doucheness, in fact I have condemned it often.  I defend what he has accomplished at MU and IU in terms of basketball, especially when people just make garbage up or have no facts.  Plenty of douche CEOs, coaches, etc, but they still are amazingly successful.  There's a difference.   So yes, seriously.  Your guy in the WH, douche, but you still defend him..right?

[keefe]

Disagree.  Immature fans hate Roy Williams...people with emotional issues.  Roy did a lot for KU.  Some people can't get over the fact that people leave jobs, schools, etc.  Butt hurt is strong with some people....mostly on message boards.   

Chicos, you don't get it. This is not about how Crean left Marquette, even though that was outrageous in its own right. This is about how that guy treats people. He is a user and his general approach is to crap on everyone unless he sees something in you that he can use to his advantage. The Jeff Meyer Incident is classic Crean. That had nothing to do with Meyer but everything to do with Crean.

Leadership is simple. Take care of your people. That is the job description for an Air Force Squadron Commander. It says nothing about flying jets, dropping bombs, winning wars. It says take care of your people. You have been given this authority because you are responsible for taking care of your men and women.

Problem with Tanned Tommy is he sees authority and power as his due and the people exist to take care of him. Huge difference. And unless you can see that then you will never understand the disdain in which many hold Crean.  

[4everwarriors]

He retired.  Didn't resume his career until a few years later.


Look, a big part of this is what happens next...how much of a threat is the guy.  KO was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he flamed out hard...he was no threat.  TC was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he's a threat (both real and in the emotional imaginations from some here).  He gets good recruits (some that we go after), he's in the Midwest, he had success after MU despite predictions to the contrary. 

When a coach leaves and bombs elsewhere, they become accepted, it's ok, water under the bridge.  If they have success again a decade or two later, well good for them.  If TC left and pulled a KO and bombed for the next 15 years, there wouldn't be near the animosity.

Some of us would just say, " I told you so."

[ChicosBailBonds]

By the way maybe I'm alone on this one but I don't perceive that MU is the only fan group to dislike Crean. I think he's a douche, but while he was building MU (and he did do a lot here) I defended him because he was working each day on making our program better.

Now he is not our coach, and he acts like a douche periodically. He isn't working hard to further MU's bball program so I call a spade a spade. He is a douche.

I don't think Buzz is a douche regardless of whether he coached here or not. If he left how Crean left I'd probably not like it.

In the meantime, I just cheer for Marquette guys. And Buzz is a Marquette guy. So is LW, Pilarz, and all of our current and former players.

But Crean is still a douche and that doesn't depend on him losing in the first round or winning a NC

Absolutely agreed.  Of course, this is also part and parcel with many blue blood programs.  Look how many people hate Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Bellichek, Bob Knight, Coach Cal, etc, etc.  Doucheness is often attached to many successful people, CEOs, coaches, etc. 

I think Buzz isn't a douche, then again you go to other fan sites and plenty think he is.  Ask WVU fans about him.  Ask Wisconsin fans about him.  Ask New Orleans fans about him.  It just is what it is.

[Lennys Tap]

Seriously?  You call the guy a douche, then rush to his defense.  AND THEN YOU CALL EVERYONE ELSE A HYPOCRITE.

IRONIC?

Post of the millennium.

[Lennys Tap]

Chicos, you don't get it. This is not about how Crean left Marquette, even though that was outrageous in its own right. This is about how that guy treats people. He is a user and his general approach is to crap on everyone unless he sees something in you that he can use to his advantage. The Jeff Meyer Incident is classic Crean. That had nothing to do with Meyer but everything to do with Crean.

Leadership is simple. Take care of your people. That is the job description for an Air Force Squadron Commander. It says nothing about flying jets, dropping bombs, winning wars. It says take care of your people. You have been given this authority because you are responsible for taking care of your men and women.

Problem with Tanned Tommy is he sees authority and power as his due and the people exist to take care of him. Huge difference. And unless you can see that then you will never understand the disdain in which many hold Crean.  

Perfectly stated.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Absolutely agreed.  Of course, this is also part and parcel with many blue blood programs.  Look how many people hate Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Bellichek, Bob Knight, Coach Cal, etc, etc.  Doucheness is often attached to many successful people, CEOs, coaches, etc.  

speak for yourself... I don't consider anyone on that list to be much of a douche but I'm sure others disagree.

I think the broad brush is getting a bit old with this topic.

[Aughnanure]

Disagree.  Immature fans hate Roy Williams...people with emotional issues.  Roy did a lot for KU.  Some people can't get over the fact that people leave jobs, schools, etc.  Butt hurt is strong with some people....mostly on message boards.  

This really isn't disputing the fact that Kansas fans still hate Roy. KU fans are not better than others and create irrational hatred towards things all the time. If you have numerous Facebook friends who are KU and Missouri fans, you may understand.

Kansas fans are still bitter a being dumped and wish no type of success for Roy, even though they know they got a better coach out of the deal. hmm...sounds familiar.

[Hards Alumni]

Being a douche and being a successful coach are two different things.  I don't defend his doucheness, in fact I have condemned it often.  I defend what he has accomplished at MU and IU in terms of basketball, especially when people just make garbage up or have no facts.  Plenty of douche CEOs, coaches, etc, but they still are amazingly successful.  There's a difference.   So yes, seriously.  Your guy in the WH, douche, but you still defend him..right?

So me defending Obama (actually, I never did.) in PMs with you is the same as you defending Tom Crean for at least an hour or two out of your day, everyday?  

Right.

You are hilarious.

[Goose]

All of our coaches have left a legacy and are remembered for their time here. The anti TC theme will last as long as the pro Al theme has lived. Us old guys will brag, enhance and gloat over the Al years until we die and when last one left here dies the Al legacy dies to some degree. Unfortunately for Tommy boy there are a lot of under 30 year olds out here that hate him and he will be raked across the coals longer than Al will be praised.

[Lennys Tap]

He retired.  Didn't resume his career until a few years later.


Look, a big part of this is what happens next...how much of a threat is the guy.  KO was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he flamed out hard...he was no threat.  TC was a douche, acted like a douche, left like a douche, but he's a threat (both real and in the emotional imaginations from some here).  He gets good recruits (some that we go after), he's in the Midwest, he had success after MU despite predictions to the contrary. 

When a coach leaves and bombs elsewhere, they become accepted, it's ok, water under the bridge.  If they have success again a decade or two later, well good for them.  If TC left and pulled a KO and bombed for the next 15 years, there wouldn't be near the animosity.

Disagree. My feelings toward TC were the same when he was failing as they are now when he's succeeding. He's a miserable human being and I'm grateful he's no longer the face of Marquette University.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

All of our coaches have left a legacy and are remembered for their time here. The anti TC theme will last as long as the pro Al theme has lived. Us old guys will brag, enhance and gloat over the Al years until we die and when last one left here dies the Al legacy dies to some degree. Unfortunately for Tommy boy there are a lot of under 30 year olds out here that hate him and he will be raked across the coals longer than Al will be praised.

again speak for yourself. Under 30 and no longer really think about TC unless he's popping up on my tv screaming at assistant coaches after games, etc.

Way more excited about Buzz and MU

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Question: what is there to be upset about TC for? He helped build our program to better than he found it, he hired Buzz and then he LEFT. All of those things are the things any university would want TC to do there!

If I could choose to do it again, I'd have it happen the same way.

What is there to be bummed about?

And what's wrong with making fun of a goofy guy running around screaming at people and bragging about his inlaws? Enjoy the good fun!

[Goose]

sixstring

What the fxck are you talking about? Speak for myself? I could go the rest of my life and never discuss TC again. I am not a lover or a hater of TC. My post was answer to question posed in the thread headline.