I'm always amazed how Marquette does fairly well on the court.......

[muguru]

Omaha has no NBA team to compete with, no MLB team or NFL team....Marquette has to deal with all of those.

 Maurice Watson also had legal issues and pled no contest for assaulting a woman after having sexual assault charges dropped.

Creighton has had stability with coaching, yet so many here cannot wait to be unstable again....makes zero sense.  McDermott has been there since 2010 and he got to cut his teeth for years at lower levels as head man.

And let's be honest, what has that stability gotten them?? Not very much in reality. I say that because so many people seem to think "stability" is some magic pill, and it's the best chance of hitting it big so to speak. Yet, there are plenty of examples that show sticking with the wrong guy too long is detrimental to your program, and it's better to "start" over as long as you get the next hire right.

[Shooter McGavin]

Call me a Wojo apologist or maybe someone who looks a little deeper and am much more patient than most posters.

Hasn't MU been to 3 straight post-seasons and 2 of the those NCAA berths? This year they are predicted to be a potential top 25 team after losing 2 unexpected transfers?  Compare Marquette to what Smart, Martin and Howland have done and those were the other finalists back when Wojo got the job.

Sorry, but when I see schools hanging on to guys who might be breaking NCAA rules and who haven't done a hell of a lot better than Wojo has done, if they have been better, I'm not going to call for someone's head.

Agreed.   But need this next class to be good to keep it going at that level and preferably better.   

[muguru]

Call me a Wojo apologist or maybe someone who looks a little deeper and am much more patient than most posters.

Hasn't MU been to 3 straight post-seasons and 2 of the those NCAA berths? This year they are predicted to be a potential top 25 team after losing 2 unexpected transfers?  Compare Marquette to what Smart, Martin and Howland have done and those were the other finalists back when Wojo got the job.

Sorry, but when I see schools hanging on to guys who might be breaking NCAA rules and who haven't done a hell of a lot better than Wojo has done, if they have been better, I'm not going to call for someone's head.

A. We don't know that any of those Coaches wouldn't have performed better at MU then they are at their current jobs(although wanted no part of Martin).

B. I guess it depends on one's expectations for the MU program and what they want them to be(and believe they can be).

[Pakuni]

In spite of how dumb our fan-base and university leadership is. 

I love how many of the board bullies/boobs are down on UConn re-joining the Big East if this is somehow a bad thing.  Somehow getting a school with 4 men's basketball championships in the last 30 years while being located in the heart of our geographic footprint is pause for concern. 

Yet getting smoke-in-mirrors Gonzaga, which is located in ho-bunk Washington and plays in a gym the size of my high school, is really the desired get.     Gonzaga has to stack their non-conference every year with at least 7 good teams so the rest of the nation doesn't fall completely asleep on them before they get an undeserved seed and quickly exit from the NCAA tournament in most years.  In spite of this they are an "exciting" program with sustainable appeal regardless if they never won a championship, have a small fan base, a poor geographical location for recruiting and present horrible travel logistics for all other sports and members in the Big East. 

While were on roll hurting the AAC lets also get Memphis to park football elsewhere and join the Big East to round out our number to 12.  Then wait and see if Boston College eventually drops football due to their small stadium and tepid football fan-base.  Maybe ND wants to park all their sports in the Big East again too if the ACC pushes them too much on the revenue sharing front.  Perhaps then we can be part of a conference with lots of top 50 recruits again as Penny Hardaway has been tearing it up on the recruiting front.  Meanwhile as the attached link below illustrates the Big East is sucking wind on the 2020 top 50-100 recruiting front as every "Big" East team stunk in both postseason tournaments last year.  Well actually Marquette has the best shot of having a good class within the conference and is mentioned with the most top players but at the end of the day we'll finish 2nd or 3rd with the ones we really want and end up with a couple top 75 to 100 players.  Of course if past history is any indication of the future then one of them will transfer after one year any ways. 

All this talk about staying with other "catholic" basketball schools is laughable.  If anyone has been around DePaul's current student body lately they might think they took a wrong turn and ended up in the United Nations.  One of my friend's took his daughter for a campus tour at DePaul and not once during the tour did they even mention they are a catholic school.  They have distanced themselves from their catholic roots as getting a large paying student body is tantamount.  In fact DePaul now has such a large Palestinian faction of students that they have regular anti-Israel meetings in the student union that I witness as I cut through there on cold winter days on the way to their gym. 

So the bottom line is basketball clout, geography and money is what will drive the future membership of the Big East.  Duke used to pretend like academics ruled their world too but when all the McDonald's All Americans started going to college for just one year they adapted and have become a one and done haven no different than Kentucky which has no academic reputation to protect.  Because of this we have just as much in common with Memphis as we do with our current Big East members and that being great basketball which generates lots of free publicity and money to help keep the lights on at each member university. 

Marquette has a lot to sell with amazing facilities including the nation's premier luxury home arena that draws even 17,000 fans when playing a mid-major like Buffalo.  With $25MM in annual basketball revenues we can pay great salaries to draw top assistants and head coaches and recruits alike.  However the enablers have allowed an incompetent Wojo to linger around with non-stop excuses for the program's lack of progress.  So that will no doubt hurt our ability to have a great recruiting class this year that we normally should be able to get as top recruits don't want to have the Henry Ellenson or Romeo Langford effect of having their stock drop by being associated with a poorly coached team for their one year in college.

A smart program, which MU is not, would have moved on from Wojo this off-season and got a hot mid-major coach or given Stan Johnson a three year contract to see if he could bring fresh life into the program.  Instead MU double downed on stupid and will continue to pay the price for this.  Hopefully Wojo pulls a Buzz and leaves by his own volition within the next two years to save the program any more hardship. 

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

[Cheeks]

And let's be honest, what has that stability gotten them?? Not very much in reality. I say that because so many people seem to think "stability" is some magic pill, and it's the best chance of hitting it big so to speak. Yet, there are plenty of examples that show sticking with the wrong guy too long is detrimental to your program, and it's better to "start" over as long as you get the next hire right.

And plenty of examples of pulling the plug early and going into a tailspin, too.  What’s your point?

Creighton has had two coaches the last 25 years or so.  Dana Altman and Greg McDermott.  They have 12 NCAA appearances in that time period, and a number of NIT bids.  In the previous 55 years prior to that stability, 9 NCAA bids.  Stability means something. It is what got them into the Big East.

[muguru]

And plenty of examples of pulling the plug early and going into a tailspin, too.  What’s your point?

Creighton has had two coaches the last 25 years or so.  Dana Altman and Greg McDermott.  They have 12 NCAA appearances in that time period, and a number of NIT bids.  In the previous 55 years prior to that stability, 9 NCAA bids.  Stability means something. It is what got them into the Big East.

So in 25 years, they have gained 3 more NCAA bids(from the previous 55), and 12 in 25 years from their "stability"?? Sorry, butI think you just made my point. If you think that's impressive, I don't know what to tell you my friend. Maybe at Creighton, that's fantastic...good for them. But hypothetically, if that's what MU got out of that much stability...That would be an absolute joke. I would certainly hope MU fans have a desire to be levels above Creighton in the pecking order.

[Herman Cain]

Aware of Watson, felt like I stated it correctly.

I believe our trajectory at MU the past few years has been very good.  Let Wojo continue to work to build on that trajectory.

It is our trajectory that I am most concerned about. There are a handful of Blue Bloods programs ,a dozen or so very elite programs and maybe two dozen very good programs. I feel that prior to Wojo , MU was near the top of very good programs and now post Wojo they are closer to the bottom of those programs.

The risk with Wojo is that his performance continues at the current pace and MU falls out of the very good category and into the generic high major category.

[Uncle Rico]

It is our trajectory that I am most concerned about. There are a handful of Blue Bloods programs ,a dozen or so very elite programs and maybe two dozen very good programs. I feel that prior to Wojo , MU was near the top of very good programs and now post Wojo they are closer to the bottom of those programs.

The risk with Wojo is that his performance continues at the current pace and MU falls out of the very good category and into the generic high major category.

Any “downward” trajectory was a direct result of Buzz Williams quitting on a team picked to win the Big East and then taking a recruiting class out the door with him

[Cheeks]

It is our trajectory that I am most concerned about. There are a handful of Blue Bloods programs ,a dozen or so very elite programs and maybe two dozen very good programs. I feel that prior to Wojo , MU was near the top of very good programs and now post Wojo they are closer to the bottom of those programs.

The risk with Wojo is that his performance continues at the current pace and MU falls out of the very good category and into the generic high major category.

Prior to Wojo when Buzz took the year off, tanked and got paid millions for doing so?  Uhm, no.

[muguru]

Prior to Wojo when Buzz took the year off, tanked and got paid millions for doing so?  Uhm, no.

EVERYTHING is buzz's fault, isn't it Chicos?? Absolutely everything. Whenever someone tries to be critical of Wojo, Buzz always comes up from you. It's uncanny. Hell, it's probably Buzz's fault(in your mind) that the Hauser's transferred, That MU lost to Omaha in wojo's first year, that Greg Elliott can't seem to stay healthy. All on buzz.

[Galway Eagle]

EVERYTHING is buzz's fault, isn't it Chicos?? Absolutely everything. Whenever someone tries to be critical of Wojo, Buzz always comes up from you. It's uncanny. Hell, it's probably Buzz's fault(in your mind) that the Hauser's transferred, That MU lost to Omaha in wojo's first year, that Greg Elliott can't seem to stay healthy. All on buzz.

Are you insinuating Greg constantly getting injured is Wojos fault or just listing things that are random?

Also one could make a case that buzz was at least a tiny bit culpable for Omaha as everyone but Carlino was a buzz commit/recruit.

Chico's does have an odd tendency to blame buzz for things though others protect his name at all costs.

[4everwarriors]

EVERYTHING is buzz's fault, isn't it Chicos?? Absolutely everything. Whenever someone tries to be critical of Wojo, Buzz always comes up from you. It's uncanny. Hell, it's probably Buzz's fault(in your mind) that the Hauser's transferred, That MU lost to Omaha in wojo's first year, that Greg Elliott can't seem to stay healthy. All on buzz.

Actually, all dat chit is on Crean, hey?

[Cheeks]

So in 25 years, they have gained 3 more NCAA bids(from the previous 55), and 12 in 25 years from their "stability"?? Sorry, butI think you just made my point. If you think that's impressive, I don't know what to tell you my friend. Maybe at Creighton, that's fantastic...good for them. But hypothetically, if that's what MU got out of that much stability...That would be an absolute joke. I would certainly hope MU fans have a desire to be levels above Creighton in the pecking order.

NCAA bid every other year the last 25 years vs 1 bid every 5 years when they were going through a lot of coaches.

I agree MU should be above Creighton, but you continue to miss the point on a daily basis.  You opine there is no way of knowing what those other coaches instead of Wojo would have done...correct you are.  Guess what, no way of knowing if we fire him what the next guy(s) will do either....but suddenly you don’t want to use that logic anymore.

Until Wojo gives us a reason to be fired, I have seen none to date, why are you in a rush to do something that your own logic if fully followed doesn’t guarantee anything?

[Cheeks]

EVERYTHING is buzz's fault, isn't it Chicos?? Absolutely everything. Whenever someone tries to be critical of Wojo, Buzz always comes up from you. It's uncanny. Hell, it's probably Buzz's fault(in your mind) that the Hauser's transferred, That MU lost to Omaha in wojo's first year, that Greg Elliott can't seem to stay healthy. All on buzz.

I didn’t say that, but every time you guys bring up Buzz and trajectory you miraculously forget an entire season, his last season, the one in the same Big East we play in now....so convenient to forget that season.  I can logically see how one’s first year is a transition year, players leaving, getting used to new style of play, but the last year after many years at the helm....yet time and again this year has been stricken from the minds of people like Will Smith put a MIB memory wand in front of some you and wiped your minds.  Amazing.

[Galway Eagle]

I didn’t say that, but every time you guys bring up Buzz and trajectory you miraculously forget an entire season, his last season, the one in the same Big East we play in now....so convenient to forget that season.  I can logically see how one’s first year is a transition year, players leaving, getting used to new style of play, but the last year after many years at the helm....yet time and again this year has been stricken from the minds of people like Will Smith put a MIB memory wand in front of some you and wiped your minds.  Amazing.

It's called a deneurolyzer not an MIB memory wand...

[muguru]

NCAA bid every other year the last 25 years vs 1 bid every 5 years when they were going through a lot of coaches.

I agree MU should be above Creighton, but you continue to miss the point on a daily basis.  You opine there is no way of knowing what those other coaches instead of Wojo would have done...correct you are.  Guess what, no way of knowing if we fire him what the next guy(s) will do either....but suddenly you don’t want to use that logic anymore.

Until Wojo gives us a reason to be fired, I have seen none to date, why are you in a rush to do something that your own logic if fully followed doesn’t guarantee anything?

It's a gut feel for me, and instinct, but I'm willing to take that chance, that MU would get not only more immediate results then Wojo did, but better results after 5 years. I'm also fairly certain that Wojo will NEVER get MU to the level some of us want them to be at. So if you follow the logic here, by my way of thinking, if he's not the guy to lead you there(and MY gut) says he isn't, why just keep kicking the can down the street so to speak?? What is that going to get you?? The absolute WORST thing that happens IMO if you fired him now, is you get the same results after 5 years you have now. So did you accomplish anything by firing him in that case?? No, you didn't, but you didn't lose anything either(because you were pretty certain Wojo wasn't the guy anyway).

Again, it's gut instinct for me, I personally haven't seen anything after 5 years(and your own words, 5 years to judge a Coach), that blows me away to make me think he can get to where some of us want to see MU be. You can say his trajectory has been up, sure. and that for some is enough, I get that. But for me, that in and of itself, isn't enough after 5 years. I had expected the results to be better by now. Obviously not National Championship good, but better then zero tournament wins and no conference championships.

I use the bar that Crean and Buzz set after 5 years at MU as the minimum I'd expect out of a coach at MU, whether it's Wojo or Jim Bob. Are circumstances different with each one?? Sure, but that just tells you that regardless of circumstances, the first two were able to accomplish what they did. So I look at it as, regardless of circumstances, why hasn't Wojo accomplished at least the same?? I honestly thought he would have because for my money at least on reputation, I thought he'd be the best recruiter MU has had since Al. I thought(again, my opinion), that regardless of anything else, his recruiting would carry him every year. That just hasn't happened yet.

Again, it's VERY important to understand, this is the way I personally see things, it's MY opinion.

[silverback]

“In spite of how dumb our fan-base and university leadership is.”

...are.

[Herman Cain]

It's a gut feel for me, and instinct, but I'm willing to take that chance, that MU would get not only more immediate results then Wojo did, but better results after 5 years. I'm also fairly certain that Wojo will NEVER get MU to the level some of us want them to be at. So if you follow the logic here, by my way of thinking, if he's not the guy to lead you there(and MY gut) says he isn't, why just keep kicking the can down the street so to speak?? What is that going to get you?? The absolute WORST thing that happens IMO if you fired him now, is you get the same results after 5 years you have now. So did you accomplish anything by firing him in that case?? No, you didn't, but you didn't lose anything either(because you were pretty certain Wojo wasn't the guy anyway).

Again, it's gut instinct for me, I personally haven't seen anything after 5 years(and your own words, 5 years to judge a Coach), that blows me away to make me think he can get to where some of us want to see MU be. You can say his trajectory has been up, sure. and that for some is enough, I get that. But for me, that in and of itself, isn't enough after 5 years. I had expected the results to be better by now. Obviously not National Championship good, but better then zero tournament wins and no conference championships.

I use the bar that Crean and Buzz set after 5 years at MU as the minimum I'd expect out of a coach at MU, whether it's Wojo or Jim Bob. Are circumstances different with each one?? Sure, but that just tells you that regardless of circumstances, the first two were able to accomplish what they did. So I look at it as, regardless of circumstances, why hasn't Wojo accomplished at least the same?? I honestly thought he would have because for my money at least on reputation, I thought he'd be the best recruiter MU has had since Al. I thought(again, my opinion), that regardless of anything else, his recruiting would carry him every year. That just hasn't happened yet.

Again, it's VERY important to understand, this is the way I personally see things, it's MY opinion.

I agree with this analysis.

[D'Lo Brown]

I'm still curious on who these 'boob' people are, and what makes one a boob.

[Jockey]

Great minds think alike Mr. Cain....unfortunately we’re in short supply in the MU basketball community.

Thanks for the info. 

[muguru]

I'm still curious on who these 'boob' people are, and what makes one a boob.

I love boobs, so does that make me a "boob" person?? 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

How does MLB interfere with MU?  How does the NFL?? We have what, one maybe two Sunday games? Many argue an NBA team is a plus for MU. Don’t buy your comparisons.

When the Hartford Whalers were in town people complained that UConn got all the press.

[rocket surgeon]

I'm still curious on who these 'boob' people are, and what makes one a boob.

  boobs are over rated, i'm a tail-feather guy myself, just not those over inflated bubble things made out of jell-o.  ya gotta love the ones that can carry a quarter for a hundred yard dash and give ya change at the finish line baby

[NCMUFan]

Interesting post by one person's opinion.  Some will strongly agree, mildly agree, mildly disagree or strongly disagree.

[lurch91]

I use the bar that Crean and Buzz set after 5 years at MU as the minimum I'd expect out of a coach at MU, whether it's Wojo or Jim Bob.

You realize you're holding Wojo to an impossible standard.  Both Crean and Buzz got players admitted to Marquette that would never be offered a scholarship by the current powers that be due to grades.  Is it right? I think Wade and Crowder are great spokesmen for the University and Marquette Community, but the powers that be have decided to make sure that all student athletes are very much students before being athletes.  Take away Wade, take away Crowder, is Wojo equal to Crean and Buzz?   I'd argue Wojo's result would be ahead of Crean and on par or better than Buzz.