Second worst loss by the Badgers on Kohl Hole History

[Tugg Speedman]

#3 worst - Loss to National Champion Michigan State 61-44 (17 points) in 2000
http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-wisconsin-lifeless-in-lopsided-loss-to/article_b467abc1-7535-5196-af6a-d2b5bfb5575a.html

#2 worst loss was today MU 82 -  Bucky 63 (19 points)

#1 worst loss in Kohl Hole history was seven days ago (Dec 2) when tOSU beat Bucky by 25 (83-58)

So Bucky's two worst Kohl Hole losses have some in the last 7 days, their last two home games.

----

Bucky is done, they are going to lose 20+ games this year

Kobe King will transfer

Happ is a redshirt junior and will grad transfer

[Tugg Speedman]

I’ve seen what is happening to Bucky before ...

Hall of fame coach Al McGuire (and Hank) = Hall of fame coach Bo Ryan

Joe Wolf goes elsewhere, program declines = Diamond Stone goes elsewhere (and maybe Henry Ellenson, Tyler Herro and Joey Hauser too), program declines

It took MU nine years to go from Al to Dukiet.  Bucky is far more efficient, one coaching change and three years.


What’s next?  Many years in the wilderness for Bucky Basketball.  Then they hire their version of Kevin O'Neill ... Bruce Pearl, to turn things around.  And provided he can keep his roster out of prison, they will be able to do be it around by 2025.

[tower912]

Twice in one week I am simpatico with jiggy.  Revel in their misery.  Print out their whiny assed tweets and roll around in them like a bed of $100 bills. 

[Tugg Speedman]

I’m worried about the hit our SoS is going to take because they are such a crap ass team.  We have to consider these damage playing these schools inflict.

Hope the penalty of playing Bucky does Not cost us a bid in March.

I’m rolling in it Tower ... and it feels good!!!!

[1SE]

#3 worst - Loss to National Champion Michigan State 61-44 (17 points) in 2000
http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/badgers-men-s-basketball-wisconsin-lifeless-in-lopsided-loss-to/article_b467abc1-7535-5196-af6a-d2b5bfb5575a.html

#2 worst loss was today MU 82 -  Bucky 63 (19 points)

#1 worst loss in Kohl Hole history was seven days ago (Dec 2) when tOSU beat Bucky by 25 (83-58)

So Bucky's two worst Kohl Hole losses have some in the last 7 days, their last two home games.

----

Bucky is done, they are going to lose 20+ games this year

Kobe King will transfer

Happ is a redshirt junior and will grad transfer

75 miles East?

[Tugg Speedman]

75 miles East?

And play behind Froling, John, Morrow and Heldt?

[tower912]

Marquette is stacked up front next year.  Meh.

[1SE]

And play behind Froling, John, Morrow and Heldt?

Can always use depth. Maybe offer a walk-on place.

[wadesworld]

People really think if Happ wanted to come to MU we’d say thanks but no thanks because we have a Froling, Heldt, John, and Eke at the 5? Lol.

The day MU passes up proven All Americans...well, that day will never come.

Of course he’s not going to transfer to MU.

[1SE]

People really think if Happ wanted to come to MU we’d say thanks but no thanks because we have a Froling, Heldt, John, and Eke at the 5? Lol.

The day MU passes up proven All Americans...well, that day will never come.

Of course he’s not going to transfer to MU.

I thought it was so over the top I didn't need teal....

[wadesworld]

I thought it was so over the top I didn't need teal....

Yeah I understood your post. Heise thinks we don’t have room for a player like Happ next season.

[Tugg Speedman]

Yeah I understood your post. Heise thinks we don’t have room for a player like Happ next season.

If course you take him if he’s interested, I was trying to say our front court will not be hurting next year.


And he’s not an all-American.  He played with Koenig, Hayes, SHowalter, etc and that is why he looked good.

[wadesworld]

If course you take him if he’s interested, I was trying to say our front court will not be hurting next year.


And he’s not an all-American.  He played with Koenig, Hayes, SHowalter, etc and that is why he looked good.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_america.html

I don’t know. When someone makes the All American list I typically call them an All American. And he’s having a better season this year, without those guys, than he did last year when he was an All American, and already the best player on the team.

[GGGG]

Not recruiting Sam Hauser is probably the worst decision Wisconsin basketball has made in the last 15 years.

[GB Warrior]

Not recruiting Sam Hauser is probably the worst decision Wisconsin basketball has made in the last 15 years.

Probably not the worst decision Bo made, but I'll allow it

[wadesworld]

Glad he was too busy BOning someone half his age on my taxpayer dollars to take note of Hauser.

[Dawson Rental]

And play behind Froling, John, Morrow and Heldt?

He's better than all of them, and MU would still have the option of teaming him with either Morrow or Froling at the four.

[GGGG]

I don't really think he fits what Wojo wants out of a post player.

[Dawson Rental]

I don't really think he fits what Wojo wants out of a post player.

I'm guessing that Wojo isn't realy feeling it for John or Heldt this year, either.  Now, next year for Theo might be a different story, but I'm thinking that what we've seen so far is what we'll be getting from Matt.  A quality backup being counted on beyond his abilities due to a lack of other options.

[Newsdreams]

Prob take lots of crap, but I think Happ is over rated. He is good, but not a by himself game changer.

[Tugg Speedman]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_america.html

I don’t know. When someone makes the All American list I typically call them an All American. And he’s having a better season this year, without those guys, than he did last year when he was an All American, and already the best player on the team.

I meant he's not playing at an all-American level this year.

He's on a freaking 4 - 7 team that has it's entire starting backcourt injured.  If he is not the best player on this team, the semester is up next week, please immediately transfer to UW-Stout.

[Daniel]

And play behind Froling, John, Morrow and Heldt?

And Eke

[brewcity77]

I meant he's not playing at an all-American level this year.

You're wrong. Pomeroy has him 10th among all players, but that's after today. He started the day 4th. Either is All American, only difference is first or second team.

[Tugg Speedman]

You're wrong. Pomeroy has him 10th among all players, but that's after today. He started the day 4th. Either is All American, only difference is first or second team.

Ugh ... again with treating an opinion like a fact.  You going to demand an apology for me not agreeing with your opinion?

Look, he’s a good player, and most likely better than any of our front line players (we have not seen Froling, Morrow and Joey Hauser play yet, so until then it stays “most likely”). 

But Kenpom also has the 4-7 badgers as the 59th best team in the country.  He has MU as the 53rd and has team like Georgia (70), Vermont (72), VCU 87, LSU (88), 8-0 Georgetown (92) all ranked worse than Bucky.  Do you believe Bucky was the third best team we have played this year (behind Wichita State and Purdue)?  That’s laughable... or is this opinion “wrong” too?

With Both King and Trice out, he’s playing against double teams and tightly packed Zones this year, he getting abused by guys like Purdue’s Haas and Michigan State’s Bridges.  He was also held to 7 points against Ohio State (loss by 25) and 17 points and 6 turnovers by Matt Heldt.

In the end what we will learn in Ethan Happ is a very good player but all the All-American and NPOY talk was a product of him having Koenig, Showalter, Brown and Hayes on the floor with him last year. 

He’s not at that level.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Ugh ... again with treating an opinion like a fact.  You going to demand an apology for me not agreeing with your opinion?

Look, he’s a good player, and most likely better than any of our front line players (we have not seen Froling, Morrow and Joey Hauser play yet, so until then it stays “most likely”). 

But Kenpom also has the 4-7 badgers as the 59th best team in the country.  He has MU as the 53rd and has team like Georgia (70), Vermont (72), VCU 87, LSU (88), 8-0 Georgetown (92) all ranked worse than Bucky.  Do you believe Bucky was the third best team we have played this year (behind Wichita State and Purdue)?  That’s laughable... or is this opinion “wrong” too?

With Both King and Trice out, he’s playing against double teams and tightly packed Zones this year, he getting abused by guys like Purdue’s Haas and Michigan State’s Bridges.  He was also held to 7 points against Ohio State (loss by 25) and 17 points and 6 turnovers by Matt Heldt.

In the end what we will learn in Ethan Happ is a very good player but all the All-American and NPOY talk was a product of him having Koenig, Showalter, Brown and Hayes on the floor with him last year. 

He’s not at that level.

Agree 100%.  Happ is a good player but certainly not good enough to play with the Big dogs at the next level.  His game is too incomplete.  No outside shot and does not slash.

[Tugg Speedman]

Regarding Happ versus MU’s Frontline next year ... here is one data point to ponder

February 9, 2017. Wisconsin wins at Nebraska 70-69 in overtime
http://journalstar.com/box-score-wisconsin-nebraska-ot/pdf_70ed8ec1-23c9-518c-904e-25d65f4e28ad.html

Happ = 8 points, 14 rebounds, 3 turnovers, 36 minutes

Morrow = 5 points (1-5 FT), 13 rebounds, 5 turnovers, 26 minutes

[StillWarriors]

You're wrong. Pomeroy has him 10th among all players, but that's after today. He started the day 4th. Either is All American, only difference is first or second team.

He sure looked like an AA against an excellent Xavier team. Almost single handedly kept them in the game far longer than they should have been.

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU’s 130.9 Offensive Efficiency highest in the Modern KPom Age versus the Badgers. Also, largest MU road win vs. Bucky since 1958. 

[DCHoopster]

He sure looked like an AA against an excellent Xavier team. Almost single handedly kept them in the game far longer than they should have been.

If you put Happ on MU this year or next year, they would be a Top 5 team.  He gets double teamed all the time, then passes to players that can not shoot the ball
consistantly.  Having the 3 amigos standing on the 3 point line and letting Happ work down low would be unstoppable.   It also looks like Happ is not having any fun
right now.  It is fun winning. 

[VegasWarrior77]

If you put Happ on MU this year or next year, they would be a Top 5 team.  He gets double teamed all the time, then passes to players that can not shoot the ball
consistantly.  Having the 3 amigos standing on the 3 point line and letting Happ work down low would be unstoppable.   It also looks like Happ is not having any fun
right now.  It is fun winning.

When Happ grad transfers to MU next year we will be a final four team!

[DCHoopster]

When Happ grad transfers to MU next year we will be a final four team!

Love to see it,   Happ, Morrow, Hauser, Hauser, Howard,  4 Horseman

[wadesworld]

Ugh ... again with treating an opinion like a fact.  You going to demand an apology for me not agreeing with your opinion?

Look, he’s a good player, and most likely better than any of our front line players (we have not seen Froling, Morrow and Joey Hauser play yet, so until then it stays “most likely”). 

But Kenpom also has the 4-7 badgers as the 59th best team in the country.  He has MU as the 53rd and has team like Georgia (70), Vermont (72), VCU 87, LSU (88), 8-0 Georgetown (92) all ranked worse than Bucky.  Do you believe Bucky was the third best team we have played this year (behind Wichita State and Purdue)?  That’s laughable... or is this opinion “wrong” too?

With Both King and Trice out, he’s playing against double teams and tightly packed Zones this year, he getting abused by guys like Purdue’s Haas and Michigan State’s Bridges.  He was also held to 7 points against Ohio State (loss by 25) and 17 points and 6 turnovers by Matt Heldt.

In the end what we will learn in Ethan Happ is a very good player but all the All-American and NPOY talk was a product of him having Koenig, Showalter, Brown and Hayes on the floor with him last year. 

He’s not at that level.

Unfortunately for you it’s not an opinion. The FACT is that he is an All American college basketball player. There is no denying it, it literally happened.

But we should conclude that anybody who has a good supporting cast around him isn’t an All American?

Sorry everyone on Kentucky, Duke, Villanova, Wichita State, etc, you can’t be All American players because you haven’t shown that you can produce without top talent next to you!

He was the best player on a team with good supporting players around him last year. He’s been an even better player this year with nothing around him. He’s proven he’s a great college player whether he has a great or awful team around him. If he was simply a product of Showalter, Koenig, and Hayes then one of those 3 would’ve been their All American. They weren’t. Happ was.

They don’t award All American spots based on what players may or may not do at the next level.

[Tugg Speedman]

Unfortunately for you it’s not an opinion. The FACT is that he is an All American college basketball player. There is no denying it, it literally happened.

But we should conclude that anybody who has a good supporting cast around him isn’t an All American?

I never said he wasn't an AA LAST year.  I'm arguing he is not playing at that level THIS year.

I understand you think he is ... you have your opinion and I have my opinion.

And why do we continue with this fantasy that he is transferring to MU?

[wadesworld]

I never said he wasn't an AA LAST year.  I'm arguing he is not playing at that level THIS year.

I understand you think he is ... you have your opinion and I have my opinion.

And why do we continue with this fantasy that he is transferring to MU?

I literally said he will never transfer to MU...

[tower912]

Can he play guard?

[wadesworld]

Can he play guard?

No. But he can play top 5 post player in the country.

[Tugg Speedman]

No. But he can play top 5 post player in the country.

Actually, he cannot.

Might not even be top 5 in the Big 10, or the top three on Michigan State

Michigan State's Bridges, Jaren Jackson and Ward might all be better than Happ.

After that ...
Purdue's Hass, Edwards ... and maybe Haarms
Michigan's Wagner
Minnesota's Coffey

Happ might be honorable mention all Big 10 behind some or all the players above.

Again he is a very good player.  Top 5 post player is an insult to players like ...

DeAndre Ayton of Arizona
Wendell Carter of Duke
Mohamed Bomba of Texas
Michael Porter of Mizzou
Bonzie Colson of ND
Jock Landale of St. Marys

Happ is not even close to the above.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ugh ... again with treating an opinion like a fact.  You going to demand an apology for me not agreeing with your opinion?

1. Self awareness

2. Your original argument was that Happ was not an All-American. It is a black and white fact that he is.

3. Your amended argument says he was not playing like an All-American. Brew provided some statistics that speak to the contrary. In Brew's opinion, you are wrong. And he based that opinion on actual data.

[Tugg Speedman]

1. Self awareness

2. Your original argument was that Happ was not an All-American. It is a black and white fact that he is.

3. Your amended argument says he was not playing like an All-American. Brew provided some statistics that speak to the contrary. In Brew's opinion, you are wrong. And he based that opinion on actual data.

My original argument was not an all-American THIS YEAR.  Yes, I forgot the "THIS YEAR" part and the anal police that love to pick apart wording (wades) jumped all over it.

I corrected that here  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55037.msg969760#msg969760

[GGGG]

My original argument was not an all-American THIS YEAR.  Yes, I forgot the "THIS YEAR" part...

This is the most classic Heisey line ever

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My original argument was not an all-American THIS YEAR.  Yes, I forgot the "THIS YEAR" part and the anal police that love to pick apart wording (wades) jumped all over it.

I corrected that here  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=55037.msg969760#msg969760

Did you read my post? I acknowledged what your originally said and then what you amended it to. Neither argument disqualifies Brew from giving his evidence backed opinion that you are wrong.

[wadesworld]

Actually, he cannot.

Might not even be top 5 in the Big 10, or the top three on Michigan State

Michigan State's Bridges, Jaren Jackson and Ward might all be better than Happ.

After that ...
Purdue's Hass, Edwards ... and maybe Haarms
Michigan's Wagner
Minnesota's Coffey

Happ might be honorable mention all Big 10 behind some or all the players above.

Again he is a very good player.  Top 5 post player is an insult to players like ...

DeAndre Ayton of Arizona
Wendell Carter of Duke
Mohamed Bomba of Texas
Michael Porter of Mizzou
Bonzie Colson of ND
Jock Landale of St. Marys

Happ is not even close to the above.

Lol. I’ll put some money down on Happ being above Honorable Mention All B1G if you’d like to take HM or worse. Towards a charity of the winner’s choice.

[🏀]

Take Happ, redshirt Heldt for a year.

[GooooMarquette]

You're wrong. Pomeroy has him 10th among all players, but that's after today. He started the day 4th. Either is All American, only difference is first or second team.

Is that how they pick AA teams these days?  I'd be inclined to say no....

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Take Happ, redshirt Heldt for a year.

Not a bad idea actually.  Or red shirt John.

Not happening obviously. Just day dreaming on a Sunday afternoon

[GoldenDieners32]

Are there any good pictures of the players from the game? I couldn’t find any

[Tugg Speedman]

Lol. I’ll put some money down on Happ being above Honorable Mention All B1G if you’d like to take HM or worse. Towards a charity of the winner’s choice.

How about we bet that Happ is a first or second team AA?  You think he is a top five post player.  You think he is so good that a guy on a 20 loss team is going to be named an AA again this year.

Loser has the mods ban their account.

[buckchuckler]

How about we bet that Happ is a first or second team AA?  You think he is a top five post player.  You think he is so good that a guy on a 20 loss team is going to be named an AA again this year.

Loser has the mods ban their account.

[wadesworld]

How about we bet that Happ is a first or second team AA?  You think he is a top five post player.  You think he is so good that a guy on a 20 loss team is going to be named an AA again this year.

Loser has the mods ban their account.

I said he’s an All American. Because, well, he is an All American. It’s not even something that can be argued. You said he won’t make a list higher than Honorable Mention B1G. That can be argued. So let’s put some money on it.

[tower912]

I have to say, the scout board is doing a better job than usual of enjoying the badger misery.   

[Nukem2]

I have to say, the scout board is doing a better job than usual of enjoying the badger misery.

Its not Scout any more.  It’s 247/CBS now.

[cheebs09]

Its not Scout any more.  It’s 247/CBS now.

I can only read half the posts on the free board since I'm not a VIP. Kind of annoying. Way better bang for my buck over here. Even with the rising prices.

[tower912]

Now being reported that King is out for the year for Bucky and Trice is gone for at least 6 weeks and possibly the rest of the year.   By March, Saturday's win will mean a lot more to all of us than it does to the selection committee.   

[Anti-Dentite]

Now being reported that King is out for the year for Bucky and Trice is gone for at least 6 weeks and possibly the rest of the year.   By March, Saturday's win will mean a lot more to all of us than it does to the selection committee.   

#soft

[GGGG]

Now being reported that King is out for the year for Bucky and Trice is gone for at least 6 weeks and possibly the rest of the year.   By March, Saturday's win will mean a lot more to all of us than it does to the selection committee.   

That really is a shame for both of those guys. 

[tower912]

I never wish injuries on anyone.    Agreed. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

That really is a shame for both of those guys.

Timing sucks too for injury redshirt waiver. The Temple game put them just over the 30% rule.

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm

[brewcity77]

By March, Saturday's win will mean a lot more to all of us than it does to the selection committee.

It'll still be a road win against a high major. Those are always worthwhile. That said, I think yesterday was the first of at least three straight, and maybe significantly more, in the series.

[Galway Eagle]

It'll still be a road win against a high major. Those are always worthwhile. That said, I don't think yesterday was the first of at least three straight, and maybe significantly more, in the series.

Why don’t you think that?

[brewcity77]

Why don’t you think that?

Edited...I do think that. Not sure why my phone added a word that completely reversed the meaning of my post 

[Marcus92]

One more sign of the fast-approaching singularity and eventual slavery/destruction of mankind by a vastly superior machine intelligence.

[Galway Eagle]

Edited...I do think that. Not sure why my phone added a word that completely reversed the meaning of my post 

Your phone is clearly a badger fan lol but I agree I think we’re set for the next three wins barring catastrophic injury or major transfers

[Jay Bee]

Timing sucks too for injury redshirt waiver. The Temple game put them just over the 30% rule.

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm

Nope. He's all good for a medical hardship waiver.