Article on Marquette's new admissions strategy

[Macallan 18]

Marquette Tribune article examining Marquette's new approach to enrollment.

https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/new-admissions-strategy-results-in-increasing-acceptance-rate/ 

==============

by Margaret Cahill, Projects Reporter • December 5, 2017

When freshman Alden Hodgdon applied to Marquette University, he thought the application process was selective until he saw the sudden jump in acceptance rates.

Marquette’s acceptance rate increased 20 percent in the last four years. In 2012, the university admitted about 55 percent of applicants. As of 2017, the rate is 74 percent.

“I thought Marquette was more selective than 74 percent (acceptance),” Hodgdon, a freshman in the College of Business Administration, said. “That high of an acceptance rate hurts the caliber of the school in my opinion.”

From an outsider’s point of view, these numbers can be jarring. Marquette accepts a higher number of students, which makes it appear that it is easier to gain admission.

But as part of Marquette’s Master Plan, the enrollment rate will increase. President Lovell said that over the next few years the university would have about 500 more undergraduates. This is, in part, to allow more students to enroll in Marquette’s competitive programs.

“Some of our programs will have 2000 applicants for 80 spots,” Lovell said at a news conference in August. “And those are very high-achieving students. We want to be able to try to offer more of them to get up here and come to Marquette. I think the Master Plan will help us grow the areas where we see tremendous demand.”

Xavier Cole, vice president of student affairs, said the university hopes to enroll around 100 more undergraduates per year if possible and keep Marquette a highly-esteemed school.

“This year we came in a little over our anticipated target,” Cole said in August. “What that says is Marquette is a very attractive product.”

Marquette stopped encouraging applications from potential students they would deny, thus boosting the admissions rate. John Baworosky, vice provost of enrollment management, said the administration made this transition to better align with Marquette’s Jesuit mission statement.

Two years ago, Marquette switched from generating a large pool of applicants to marketing toward a smaller group of prospective students with higher ACT or SAT scores, Provost Dan Myers said. Instead of sending emails and flyers to a larger number of students, the admissions office is sending these materials to students whose names the university bought from testing companies.

“This decision was not just made on a whim. We utilized consulting firms and many other experts and resources in order to ensure that this was the right choice for our school,” Meyers said. “And we have other priorities other than acceptance rates, such as creating a more diverse campus and maintaining academic excellence.”

Nathan Juarez, a freshman in the College of Business Administration, applied after Marquette switched the admission process, but he said he believes other students might be hesitant to pick Marquette over other schools with higher acceptance rates.

“People back home have been asking me about Marquette,” Juarez said. “But the only thing they’re questioning is why the acceptance rate is getting so high.”

“I think that this makes Marquette seem less competitive to get into, and that might deter smarter students from wanting to apply,” Hodgdon said.

Sarah Nyhan, alumna from the Marquette class of 1989, said she is concerned this may damage the school’s reputation. Nyhan said the previous admissions model was not unethical because it allowed the university to compete with other schools while also attracting bright students.

“Their increasing acceptance rate may catch up with them,” she said. “I believe that (the previous admissions process) is not doing anything wrong or unethical, it is just a way to prevent negative consequences.”

But the admissions process is not the only factor that influences which students apply. Jimmy Starke, a senior in the College of Arts & Sciences, sees this firsthand working as a tour guide.

“The questions I most often get asked concern the small class sizes, student to teacher ratio and resources of the school,” Starke said. “If all of these factors remain strong, that’s fine.”

Starke also notes that from the perspective of a student, it is fairer to receive mail from schools willing to accept these students. It doesn’t make sense for Marquette to market to students that they know they’re going to deny, he said.

There can be benefits — besides those pertaining to the admissions rate — to reaching out to many students, he said.

“If the motivation is to simply get the admissions rate down, that isn’t necessarily good,” Emily Johnson, Marquette class of 2010, said. “But casting a wide net and reaching out to more students could increase diversity and allow more students information and access to Marquette.”

Not all alumni see the increasing admittance rate as a problem either. Annie Darley, Class of 1989, said alumni still respect their alma mater, regardless of its rate of admission.

“The rate may deter some students, but there’s more to statistics and we should take this with a grain of salt,” Darley said.

Some university officials echoed that the numbers do not paint the entire picture.

“The ranking and acceptance rates are not indicators of a school’s quality,” Myers said. “The scores and quality of each incoming class continue to rise, and if (the administration) saw a problem or decrease in the quality of students, we would change course.”

Despite the increasing rate of acceptance, there is an increase in the number of students who choose to attend Marquette. “The average GPAs and test scores of students has actually increased,” Brian Troyer, dean of undergraduate admissions, said.

Troyer said this strategy, because it has increased the acceptance rate so rapidly, could have adverse effects in the long term even though it has not affected the test scores and GPA of students as of this year.

“This could potentially be negative in the long run, but we have seen no signs of this so far,” Troyer said.

[mu_hilltopper]

Marquette stopped encouraging applications from potential students they would deny, thus boosting the admissions rate. John Baworosky, vice provost of enrollment management, said the administration made this transition to better align with Marquette’s Jesuit mission statement.

Two years ago, Marquette switched from generating a large pool of applicants to marketing toward a smaller group of prospective students with higher ACT or SAT scores, Provost Dan Myers said. Instead of sending emails and flyers to a larger number of students, the admissions office is sending these materials to students whose names the university bought from testing companies.

I guess I find this odd.

Why not market to the bigger universe of kids.. yeah, you need to pay for those extra marketing touches, and you need to process more denials .. but for those few extra bucks, now you look more selective and you end up with (roughly) the same 2000 kids you were going to admit anyhow.

What am I missing?

[GGGG]

Two things:

1.  Targeted admissions is a much more cost effective way of recruiting the class you want.  It's the way most marketing is done now.  College admissions following suit makes perfect sense.

2.   Acceptance rate is a flat out STUPID way to judge the quality of a school.  And if those students have a problem with it, they can take their snooty, dumbasses elsewhere.

[#UnleashSean]

I laugh at anyone who thinks acceptance rate determines the caliber of a school.

[Macallan 18]

Why not market to the bigger universe of kids.. yeah, you need to pay for those extra marketing touches, and you need to process more denials .. but for those few extra bucks, now you look more selective and you end up with (roughly) the same 2000 kids you were going to admit anyhow.

What am I missing?

I saw a presentation by John Baworosky recently and he said one reason for changing this approach is that administration felt it was unethical to have students apply to Marquette who had no shot of getting in just to raise the number of applicants.

He also said a higher acceptance rate actually helps Marquette, because there were students with high GPAs and just okay ACT and SAT scores who would not apply to Marquette because they figured they had no chance due to their test scores and Marquette's low acceptance rate. Now these students, due to the increased acceptance rate, are applying to Marquette even though their test scores may not be off the charts.

John also discussed the recent push to grow the number of transfer students and international student. Marquette recently opened an office in Beijing near the Silk Market, any Scoopers in the area are encouraged to stop by.

[mu_hilltopper]

I laugh at anyone who thinks acceptance rate determines the caliber of a school.

You and Sultan said much the same thing.  But some people do, so enjoy your good laugh at them while they choose colleges based on that.

[GGGG]

You and Sultan said much the same thing.  But some people do, so enjoy your good laugh at them while they choose colleges based on that.

Oh I'm perfectly fine with someone going elsewhere if that's important for them.

[Eldon]

Thanks for posting.

Kudos to Lovell on this.  I hope the admin stays firm and stays patient in explaining the strategy to any alums who are pissed about the rising acceptance rate.  Sending out customized, colorful MU brochures to kids with a 14 ACT score gives these kids false hope.  Arguably unethical, but more practically, it is almost the definition of an inefficient use of resources.

Counterpoint: Eldon, is it really a waste of resources if MU is getting a bunch of (smart) kids who focus on acceptance rate?

Rejoinder: Yes, it is still a waste of resources in that I'm not sure I want scarce resources being used to attract kids who are either naive or elitist.  Those resources could be better spent fulfilling MU's mission.

USWNR has schools running a rat race.  Props to Lovell for choosing not to run.

[CTWarrior]

Oh I'm perfectly fine with someone going elsewhere if that's important for them.

To me, the main thing you have to be concerned with is what employers think about acceptance rate.  I admittedly have no idea how acceptance rate fits in with employers evaluation of a degree from a university.  A negative connotation there could hurt you down the line.  But as for individual students feelings, not much of an issue as long as you are filling up your classes with quality students.

[Dr. Blackheart]

#arnomatta

[warriorchick]

To me, the main thing you have to be concerned with is what employers think about acceptance rate.  I admittedly have no idea how acceptance rate fits in with employers evaluation of a degree from a university.  A negative connotation there could hurt you down the line.  But as for individual students feelings, not much of an issue as long as you are filling up your classes with quality students.

My guess is that the vast majority of employers don't give a crap about the acceptance rate; they care if the university cranks out good accountants/engineers/nurses.

I can promise you that this conversation has never happened:

Hiring Manager 1:  "Let's go recruit at Marquette.  Everyone we have ever hired from there has been excellent!  And all of my peers at other companies say the same thing!"

Hiring Manager 2"  "That acceptance rate, tho..."

[Tugg Speedman]

how much does the acceptance rate figure into the US News Rankings?

Yes, I understand the argument that this measure is flawed, and agree with a lot of it.  But it matters in the world we live in.

[#UnleashSean]

I don't think any employer in the world cares much about where your undergrad degree came from much less the acceptance rate. Undergrad is basically the new highschool

[GGGG]

Companies are going to recruit where they get results.  So your undergraduate school matters in that respect.  But after your first job?  Hardly matters.

[GooooMarquette]

My guess is that the vast majority of employers don't give a crap about the acceptance rate; they care if the university cranks out good accountants/engineers/nurses.

I can promise you that this conversation has never happened:

Hiring Manager 1:  "Let's go recruit at Marquette.  Everyone we have ever hired from there has been excellent!  And all of my peers at other companies say the same thing!"

Hiring Manager 2"  "That acceptance rate, tho..."

Agree. 

[CTWarrior]

My guess is that the vast majority of employers don't give a crap about the acceptance rate; they care if the university cranks out good accountants/engineers/nurses.

I can promise you that this conversation has never happened:

Hiring Manager 1:  "Let's go recruit at Marquette.  Everyone we have ever hired from there has been excellent!  And all of my peers at other companies say the same thing!"

Hiring Manager 2"  "That acceptance rate, tho..."

Good point, obviously.   I probably should have been clearer.  I meant how the acceptance rate effects the prestige/ranking factors of the school and how that effects the value of a degree from that school, not the acceptance rate itself per se.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't think any employer in the world cares much about where your undergrad degree came from much less the acceptance rate. Undergrad is basically the new highschool

I hear a lot of people say that. But only 30% of American adults have bachelor's degrees. Less than 10% have advanced degrees.

[warriorchick]

Good point, obviously.   I probably should have been clearer.  I meant how the acceptance rate effects the prestige/ranking factors of the school and how that effects the value of a degree from that school, not the acceptance rate itself per se.

Same answer.  From my experience, employers care way more about the quality of the graduates coming out of the school, not hard it is to get into the school.

[Herman Cain]

Marquette is making the classic mistake of listening to a bunch of high paid egg headed consultants and not using common sense. The kids themselves are telling MU that the strategy is not sensible.  Go to any high school when the early decision acceptances are coming in, all the kids and their families care about is getting into the most selective schools.

MU admissions people are flat out lazy and not willing to do the work and compete hard for the good students. I have said this before and will say it again, diversity only makes sense if your getting the good students.  Every school is competing for the top minority students and those kids know it. These students choose based on prestige.  My kids had stacks of offers because they were the right color and came from the right zip code.

MU has abdicated from competing and now has a strategy of going after Chicago State equivalent kids which is going to ruin the brand and the prestige of the school . It just doesn't make any sense, given the strides the University has made over the last 40 years.

Also at the highest level of companies, people do care about the schools people went to. Business is Business, but the kids from lower perceived schools have to be top tier.

[forgetful]

Marquette is making the classic mistake of listening to a bunch of high paid egg headed consultants and not using common sense. The kids themselves are telling MU that the strategy is not sensible.  Go to any high school when the early decision acceptances are coming in, all the kids and their families care about is getting into the most selective schools.

MU admissions people are flat out lazy and not willing to do the work and compete hard for the good students. I have said this before and will say it again, diversity only makes sense if your getting the good students.  Every school is competing for the top minority students and those kids know it. These students choose based on prestige.  My kids had stacks of offers because they were the right color and came from the right zip code.

MU has abdicated from competing and now has a strategy of going after Chicago State equivalent kids which is going to ruin the brand and the prestige of the school . It just doesn't make any sense, given the strides the University has made over the last 40 years.

Also at the highest level of companies, people do care about the schools people went to. Business is Business, but the kids from lower perceived schools have to be top tier.

Yeah, none of this is remotely accurate of what is occurring.

Watch a new metric come in where they have two numbers:  The % accepted.  And the average score of those denied. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Most students today don't give a rats bum about getting into "selective" schools.  They do care about usnwr rankings which acceptance rate impacts but most have no idea nor care what a schools acceptance rate is. AR is to admissions what Wins is to baseball. A useless stat that everyone used to love and is slowly becoming less and less relevant

[Disco Hippie]

Marquette Tribune article examining Marquette's new approach to enrollment.

https://marquettewire.org/3982607/news/new-admissions-strategy-results-in-increasing-acceptance-rate/ 

==============

by Margaret Cahill, Projects Reporter • December 5, 2017

When freshman Alden Hodgdon applied to Marquette University, he thought the application process was selective until he saw the sudden jump in acceptance rates.

Marquette’s acceptance rate increased 20 percent in the last four years. In 2012, the university admitted about 55 percent of applicants. As of 2017, the rate is 74 percent.

“I thought Marquette was more selective than 74 percent (acceptance),” Hodgdon, a freshman in the College of Business Administration, said. “That high of an acceptance rate hurts the caliber of the school in my opinion.”

From an outsider’s point of view, these numbers can be jarring. Marquette accepts a higher number of students, which makes it appear that it is easier to gain admission.

But as part of Marquette’s Master Plan, the enrollment rate will increase. President Lovell said that over the next few years the university would have about 500 more undergraduates. This is, in part, to allow more students to enroll in Marquette’s competitive programs.

“Some of our programs will have 2000 applicants for 80 spots,” Lovell said at a news conference in August. “And those are very high-achieving students. We want to be able to try to offer more of them to get up here and come to Marquette. I think the Master Plan will help us grow the areas where we see tremendous demand.”

Xavier Cole, vice president of student affairs, said the university hopes to enroll around 100 more undergraduates per year if possible and keep Marquette a highly-esteemed school.

“This year we came in a little over our anticipated target,” Cole said in August. “What that says is Marquette is a very attractive product.”

Marquette stopped encouraging applications from potential students they would deny, thus boosting the admissions rate. John Baworosky, vice provost of enrollment management, said the administration made this transition to better align with Marquette’s Jesuit mission statement.

Two years ago, Marquette switched from generating a large pool of applicants to marketing toward a smaller group of prospective students with higher ACT or SAT scores, Provost Dan Myers said. Instead of sending emails and flyers to a larger number of students, the admissions office is sending these materials to students whose names the university bought from testing companies.

“This decision was not just made on a whim. We utilized consulting firms and many other experts and resources in order to ensure that this was the right choice for our school,” Meyers said. “And we have other priorities other than acceptance rates, such as creating a more diverse campus and maintaining academic excellence.”

Nathan Juarez, a freshman in the College of Business Administration, applied after Marquette switched the admission process, but he said he believes other students might be hesitant to pick Marquette over other schools with higher acceptance rates.

“People back home have been asking me about Marquette,” Juarez said. “But the only thing they’re questioning is why the acceptance rate is getting so high.”

“I think that this makes Marquette seem less competitive to get into, and that might deter smarter students from wanting to apply,” Hodgdon said.

Sarah Nyhan, alumna from the Marquette class of 1989, said she is concerned this may damage the school’s reputation. Nyhan said the previous admissions model was not unethical because it allowed the university to compete with other schools while also attracting bright students.

“Their increasing acceptance rate may catch up with them,” she said. “I believe that (the previous admissions process) is not doing anything wrong or unethical, it is just a way to prevent negative consequences.”

But the admissions process is not the only factor that influences which students apply. Jimmy Starke, a senior in the College of Arts & Sciences, sees this firsthand working as a tour guide.

“The questions I most often get asked concern the small class sizes, student to teacher ratio and resources of the school,” Starke said. “If all of these factors remain strong, that’s fine.”

Starke also notes that from the perspective of a student, it is fairer to receive mail from schools willing to accept these students. It doesn’t make sense for Marquette to market to students that they know they’re going to deny, he said.

There can be benefits — besides those pertaining to the admissions rate — to reaching out to many students, he said.

“If the motivation is to simply get the admissions rate down, that isn’t necessarily good,” Emily Johnson, Marquette class of 2010, said. “But casting a wide net and reaching out to more students could increase diversity and allow more students information and access to Marquette.”

Not all alumni see the increasing admittance rate as a problem either. Annie Darley, Class of 1989, said alumni still respect their alma mater, regardless of its rate of admission.

“The rate may deter some students, but there’s more to statistics and we should take this with a grain of salt,” Darley said.

Some university officials echoed that the numbers do not paint the entire picture.

“The ranking and acceptance rates are not indicators of a school’s quality,” Myers said. “The scores and quality of each incoming class continue to rise, and if (the administration) saw a problem or decrease in the quality of students, we would change course.”

Despite the increasing rate of acceptance, there is an increase in the number of students who choose to attend Marquette. “The average GPAs and test scores of students has actually increased,” Brian Troyer, dean of undergraduate admissions, said.

Troyer said this strategy, because it has increased the acceptance rate so rapidly, could have adverse effects in the long term even though it has not affected the test scores and GPA of students as of this year.

“This could potentially be negative in the long run, but we have seen no signs of this so far,” Troyer said.

Really well written well researched article that explores the pros and cons of the strategy very thoroughly!  It's great to see that some students are clearly taking this up as a cause celebre and kudos to the Trib for shedding more light on a very important and complex subject that could have significant ramifications for the university in the long run.  As many of you know this is an issue I'm very passionate and concerned about and have expressed those concerns not only on this board, but in correspondence to multiple administrators over the past six months.  To my surprise, several administrators responded to my letters personally via calls or e-mails to explain the new strategy in detail which I was very grateful for.  While still not entirely on board with the new strategy, I at least have a better understanding of the reasoning behind it and why it was necessary in the short term.  I agree that acceptance rates are a superficial metric that have no bearing on quality whatsoever, but being from the northeast, acceptance rates are a metric that both parents and prospective students in this region take extremely seriously.  That's why Herman, CT Warrior and I are so passionate about it.  Unless you live here or have lived in this part of the country at some point it's difficult to understand but people here are absolute elitist snobs of the first order and that's just the way it is unfortunately.  One administrator I spoke with told me flat out that if MU were located on the east coast between the Boston and the Washington D.C. corridor it would be suicidal to pursue such a strategy, but because this is less of an issue in the Midwest and MU gets a very small percentage of students from this region, they believe they can adopt this strategy successfully with relatively little negative impact due to their geography.  Still, he acknowledged it's a risky strategy that could have negative implications near term (3-5 yrs).  It's something they're aware of and are monitoring very closely.  Although the administrator who told me this wasn't the Admissions Dean or anyone else quoted in the article, it was interesting to read that our own Dean of Admissions acknowledged there could be negative consequences in the long term and that they're watching this closely and will change course if necessary.  The fact that they continue to enroll a stronger class with higher GPA's and SAT/ACT scores is encouraging  (Sorry Herman your Chicago State analogy just isn't accurate), but like you, I am still very concerned about the negative consequences.  I think the main reason they're not as concerned as you, me and CT is because they enroll so few students from this region, it's not enough to make a difference.  Although the fact that MU isn't making much of an effort to appeal more to prospective students and their parents in this region is disappointing to me personally, it won't have any negative impact on the long term health of the institution. 

With this new strategy in mind though, why can't MU spend a little more $$$ to target even more students with GPA's and Scores likely to be admitted than they currently are so they could use more non academic criteria to determine who gets in and who doesn't?  The dean of Admissions at Harvard has acknowledged that while 15-20% of their applicants apply there as a lark and have no chance of getting in, 80-85% of their applicants are academically qualified yet they still only accept 6% so those decisions are based largely on non academic criteria.  He said if they rejected everyone they accepted and accepted the next 1800 they rejected instead, there would be no difference in the academic metrics of the incoming class and they could go through that same cycle 4 more times with no decrease in academic quality.  I would guess other ivies and schools like Stanford, Duke and the rest of the Top 25 also choose classes based largely on non academic criteria.  I realize very few schools are fortunate enough to be in that position and Marquette obviously is not one of them, but even if they only dipped their toes in such an approach, it could mitigate the reputational risk.  Instead, they're doubling down and recruiting even more aggressively at Jesuit high schools where they already get plenty of applicants from already.  One admin I spoke with actually bragged that MU apparently enrolls more students from Jesuit high schools then any other Jesuit university.  Who gives a crap?  I certainly couldn't and seriously doubt this is something the upper echelon Jesuit universities care all that much about either so why does MU if they claim to aspire to be more like Georgetown or BC? 

[warriorchick]

Disco, did any of those administrators tell you (like I have been told)  that MU isn't particularly focused on getting more applicants from the Northeast because it is a shrinking market? Why would you waste effort on a metric that only appeals to a demographic that you aren't really  trying to attract?

I can't help but think  that the primary  reason you are so passionate about this is your belief that it diminishes the prestige of your own degree among your East Coast peers.

[warriorchick]

MU has abdicated from competing and now has a strategy of going after Chicago State equivalent kids which is going to ruin the brand and the prestige of the school . It just doesn't make any sense, given the strides the University has made over the last 40 years.

Chicago's State's acceptance rate is 21%.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/chicago-state-university-1694/rankings

Given your and Disco's insistence on using acceptance rate as a stand-alone metric, becoming Chicago State North is something Marquette should aspire to.

[Disco Hippie]

Disco, did any of those administrators tell you (like I have been told)  that MU isn't particularly focused on getting more applicants from the Northeast because it is a shrinking market? Why would you waste effort on a metric that only appeals to a demographic that you aren't really  trying to attract?

I can't help but think  that the primary  reason you are so passionate about this is your belief that it diminishes the prestige of your own degree among your East Coast peers.

Yes they did and I understand why.  It's also declining even more in their own backyard which is why they're putting so much emphasis on the west coast.  I get that.  What I don't get is why they continue to overemphasize recruiting at Jesuit and Catholic high schools.  Not saying they should ignore them but it's a relatively small pool and MU always get plenty of applicants from Catholic high schools from all over the country so it's not where they need the help.  I get that they're they're not focused on growing the applicant pool generally due to the inefficiency of that approach but why not focus on growing the "qualified" applicant pool by more aggressively recruiting at high ranking public high schools in well to do suburbs in all regions of the country?

And yes, I do believe that their current approach has the potential to damage the Marquette brand in the long term and administrators have acknowledged the risk.  This POV is not just a northeastern one....the article mentioned several other prospective and current students who have similar concerns that I highly doubt are northeasterners, although that mindset is definitely elevated here. 

I don't like the word "prestige" because Marquette is not nor has ever been what I would refer to as "prestigious" and up until about 3 or 4 years ago, I had no issue with where they stood, but as I've noted many times, as an active alum recruiter here, the acceptance rate question comes up frequently.  MU is 100% correct on the merits of the current approach, but they're also well aware they're fighting an uphill battle that they're not going to win from a perception standpoint so I take some comfort in that and am glad they're monitoring the situation closely.  By the way, I do not agree with Herms' Chicago State analogy at all and acknowledge MU's academic metrics continue to rise even if only slightly each year which is great! 

I also resent the fact that the high school I attended in southwestern CT (Where the Catholic population is significant by the way) sends anywhere from 3-5 students a year to UW Mad and has for over 30 years.  The last person to go to MU from my high school was me so this notion that students aren't willing to travel that far is baloney, especially taking into account that UW Mad's out of state  tuition is similar to MU's.  That drives me nuts!