Wojo's seat

[Goose]

Diener

Not sure if they have priced things out or not, but with less than favorable lease, likely not going to be couple buck a ticket increase. That said, I still think MU games our a reasonable ticket price currently, especially if only buying tickets for games you want to attend.

[Galway Eagle]

If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.

Bailey red shirting or what?

[MU82]

When Wojo was hired, if you would have told me year 4 would be a bubble year I would have said that's not good enough.  But I can also reshape my expectations year by year as new information arises.  Such as:

1) Henry's one and done year leaving a hole this long.  Wojo miscalculated that Henry would have a negative affect on Levin transferring out and finding a replacement for Henry, like Kyle Washington or Xavier Tillman, was harder than expected.  Luckily, Wojo back filled with transfers Froling and Morrow.  But we're still a couple weeks away from Froling being eligible and Morrow is almost a year away.  So the hole remains for now.

2) Cheatham didn't develop as hoped.  Combine that with missing out on Amir Coffey and Wojo has another hole.  Cain and Elliott have nice potential but they're not instant impact frosh, so we're left waiting for them to develop and for Sam to be able to move to SF next year when Morrow is eligible.

3) Howard reclassifying.  You take that talent every time but it also set up a two year overlap of Rowsey and Howard, which lead to Carter transferring.  Hard to play 3 sub-6 foot guards together.  Now we have another whole.  Wojo missed on Grimes and Elliott's development remains to be seen.  Hopefully Wojo can find a guard to help shore up the backcourt.

The other thing is, I recognize the progress Wojo has made.  I can be excited for the future.  But I can also see the holes on this roster.  I will add that I'm not thrilled with every strategic move Wojo's made, especially defensive scheme.  But for now, I'll keep watching the process and see where it takes us.

All of this is reasonable. Although I'm quite sure we probably would not have made the tournament last season if Markus had still been in high school.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.

Completely agree.

[mu03eng]

Bailey red shirting or what?

I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.

[muguru]

Look, I'm not in the "fire wojo" group...yet. But that doesn't mean I don't have concerns on where this program is at currently. And even if next year and the year after are outstanding(and I really hope they are), does that necessarily make up for what "some" think has been a bit of underachievement to this point?? I don't necessarily think it does.

Sure, you will have the people that crow "see, told ya it takes 5 years to really see the effects", but that's just boasting to boast with no evidence to back it up, since Coaches HAVE rebuilt faster.

My biggest issues with Wojo right now are what seem to be his lack of creativity with game plans, and not seeming to make proper adjustments in game. As a Coach, you HAVE to have flexibility, and you have to have option(s), if what you originally intend to do doesn't/isn't working. Yes, there may be a learning curve changing some things up from time to time, and there may well be struggles. But you have to know your team, their strengths, their weaknesses etc. And you cannot just keep doing "what you do" when it's repeatedly not working.

Like the Heldt hedge on ball screens..he is simply not quick enough to recover..Wojo and the staff have to see that, yet, they keep doing it. Why not do something different??

Also, he doesn't seem to have a good feel for "subbing". What I mean by this is..there are plenty of opportunities, late in games where if it's close and you need a stop..you can do offense-defense substitutions fairly easily. He never seems to do that.

For example, let's say MU is down 1 with a minute to go..you need a stop on the defensive side..why don't you sub in Elliott(the better defender) for Howard or Rowsey, and then switch that back when you get the stop and put the other back in for the offense?? Take a time out if you have to. You see it done all the time, Wojo doesn't seem to do this nearly enough. Those are things that can win/lose basketball games.

[jsglow]

If we get a grad transfer PG I will have to adjust, but barring injury or other issue I think the starting 5(line-up/grouping of players with most minutes) will be Markus at the 1/2, Elliot at the 1/2, Sam at the 3, Morrow at the 4, and Froling at the 5. Next most minutes "off the bench" will be Joey and Cain, after that Theo and Sacar and Sir "Not really appearing in this film" will be Matt and Ike. I think we play a lot of "centerless" basketball next season.

You don't have enough guard time in there eng.  Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard.  Those are 4th guard minutes.  So that's correct if we get a Point.

[mu03eng]

Also, he doesn't seem to have a good feel for "subbing". What I mean by this is..there are plenty of opportunities, late in games where if it's close and you need a stop..you can do offense-defense substitutions fairly easily. He never seems to do that.

For example, let's say MU is down 1 with a minute to go..you need a stop on the defensive side..why don't you sub in Elliott(the better defender) for Howard or Rowsey, and then switch that back when you get the stop and put the other back in for the offense?? Take a time out if you have to. You see it done all the time, Wojo doesn't seem to do this nearly enough. Those are things that can win/lose basketball games.

You mean like he did in the last minute of the Georgia game?

[mu03eng]

You don't have enough guard time in there eng.  Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard.  Those are 4th guard minutes.  So that's correct if we get a Point.

Howard's gonna average 36 minutes a game next year, Elliot likely 26 (if his trend line continues). That only leaves 18 minutes at the 2 on average....ala Sacar.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.

Interesting. This is even with Big Daddy reaffirming Bailey’s commitment a few weeks ago?

[jsglow]

Howard's gonna average 36 minutes a game next year, Elliot likely 26 (if his trend line continues). That only leaves 18 minutes at the 2 on average....ala Sacar.

I agree on your distribution of minutes.

Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight.  I might walk out.   

[mu03eng]

Interesting. This is even with Big Daddy reaffirming Bailey’s commitment a few weeks ago?

I will always defer to Big Daddy's knowledge so this was gut feel (didn't see what Big Daddy posted). If he does come, I'm not sure he's going to be able to contribute much in year one after not playing a lot of competitive basketball in two years.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

My view on Bailey is that he'll be rusty from the 2 year mission.  As a frosh I just want him to regain his rhythm.  Then see how he develops from there.

[mu03eng]

I agree on your distribution of minutes.

Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight.  I might walk out.   

We'll see how Greg's thumb heals up, and if it brings with it a more refined handle....likely going to need him to play some 1 next season.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I'm not convinced he comes to MU. but even still, with Sam pushed down to the 3 with Sacar, Cain, and Elliot at times....not sure where Bailey fits in unless there is an injury. If Bailey can beat out those guys I will 100% eat crow as being wrong.

Why?  Nothing has indicated as such. And hasn't he signed?

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

You don't have enough guard time in there eng.  Sacar can't be 9th man if he's our 3rd guard.  Those are 4th guard minutes.  So that's correct if we get a Point.

Sam and Cain are just as much guards as they are forwards. 

[Loose Cannon]

I agree on your distribution of minutes.

Let's hope for our sanity that M2N doesn't get 2 fouls in 45 seconds tonight.  I might walk out.   

No more Walking TO's.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Why?  Nothing has indicated as such. And hasn't he signed?

He is signed.

[Dr. Blackheart]

What is the alternative to Wojo? Another highly regarding assistance that may or may not return the program to glory? It's fair to say that Wojo hasn't proven he can put a day in-day out winner on the court, but he also hasn't proven he hasn't. Until he proves that he can't, the risk in changing is much higher than the risk in not changing.

First, with his standing and who is here or signed, Wojo is safe.

Second, not having apparent alternatives is not an excuse to keep a coach who is not performing. 

Third, there are viable alternatives, especially with the Marquette job and what we spend.

[WhiteTrash]

As I have stated previously, I am in the keep Wojo at least one more year and hopefully more camp. That said I don't agree with a couple of "pro-Wojo' arguments made in this thread.

1. 'Wojo is safe regardless of wins and losses.' This makes no sense unless you assume the AD and the administration do not care about success on the court and the collateral benefit to the university as a whole. From what I heard the university cares deeply about the wins and losses and feels they have made, and are making, a significant investment to produce success. I don't think MU views having a clean, respectable program and a winning program as mutually exclusive.

2. 'Firing Wojo will set the program back 3, 5 or 10 years'. While I understand some of the reasoning behind this (yes, there would  be short term set backs), it flies in the face of the basic economic  principle of 'sunk cost' (and not in the financial sense). Also, it appears to me that anyone sharing this opinion has a fairly dim view of Marquette and MU basketball. My sense is that
those people feel like MU got lucky getting Wojo to come to a mediocre university with a below average basketball program with below average resources; therefore, "what coach with any sort of ability to win at MU would take the job", thus we are destined to years of performance below what Wojo has delivered.

IMHO, MU is a great university with a great basketball program and great tradition. The university provides some of the top resources in the nation, competes in a top 5 conference and will start playing in maybe the best basketball arena in the country next year in front of top 20 attendance in college basketball. If MU decided to move on from Wojo, it will be just fine. I am not advocating firing Wojo nor do I think this is being discussed by MU at this time but I am confident the university, should the day come, will make a decision in its best interest and not be paralyzed by fear.

[mu03eng]

Third, there are viable alternatives, especially with the Marquette job and what we spend.

Based on the candidates who were viable that I know about when we landed Wojo, I guess it depends on your definition of viable. Well regarded assistant, absolutely. Established, proven HC...that's where I'm not so sure unless you are going into tier 2 (SWAC, MAEC, etc) conference (like Waddle or Harris being hired if they prove they're good.)

[tower912]

The notion that Markus can/will/should play 35 minutes per game at the point will make it difficult for Wojo to land a quality point guard.  A similar thing happened to Crean because of Yogi Ferrell.  Tough to find a top notch player willing to come and sit for two years.

[GGGG]

Based on the candidates who were viable that I know about when we landed Wojo, I guess it depends on your definition of viable. Well regarded assistant, absolutely. Established, proven HC...that's where I'm not so sure unless you are going into tier 2 (SWAC, MAEC, etc) conference (like Waddle or Harris being hired if they prove they're good.)

Or a fired coach on the rebound.

[MUBurrow]

We vastly overrate our program based on the amount of money spent. The amount of money MU pours into basketball is the price to overcome its inherent disadvantages vs its competition, and is sufficient to bring it back on to even footing in many respects. But it doesn't put it on a higher plane, or make it a uniquely desirable job.

[jesmu84]

I think more people would be OK with a step back, if it was a step back from big time success.  What are we stepping back from?  A 6th place conference finish and a blowout tournament loss as a 10 seed?  It's not like we are reloading after some sweet 16 runs. 

Personally, I get sick of hearing the "wait until next year" stuff because it implies that Wojo hasn't had any talent yet, which I disagree with.  I'm beginning to doubt Wojo some because I think some of his teams so far have underperformed.  Last year's team must have had something like 7-8 former 4 star, top 100 recruits and that doesn't even include guys like Rowsey and Reinhardt who were proven, experienced veterans at the college level.  How many teams around the country had that type of raw talent?  That team should have been better than a one and done 10 seed, IMO.

The year before he had a lot of those same guys and a 5 star one and done lottery talent.  Not even getting a NIT berth with that squad, that was underperforming.  How much talent does he need before MU can compete for a Big East title and a Sweet 16 run?  Sure next year's team looks good on paper but so did the Ellenson team, and so did last year's team.

I'm not a fire Wojo club member right now, but I'm starting to get concerned and have been pretty unimpressed to date.  I wouldn't say his seat should be hot, but it shouldn't be cold either.

So, you realize high school rankings don't always translate to college success, right?