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Author Topic: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News  (Read 3445 times)

Lennys Tap

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Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« on: December 02, 2017, 08:22:18 AM »
The stock market took a tumble when ABC news reported yesterday that Michael Flynn said that Trump directed him to contact the Russians BEFORE the election. Of course it rallied right back when ABC admitted their error, but this is the kind of sloppiness/blatant partisanship that provides grist for a charlatan Donald Trump's mill. Has reporting what you're rooting for the news to be instead of what it is (on all networks, including FOX) the new normal?

GooooMarquette

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2017, 08:26:58 AM »
The stock market took a tumble when ABC news reported yesterday that Michael Flynn said that Trump directed him to contact the Russians BEFORE the election. Of course it rallied right back when ABC admitted their error, but this is the kind of sloppiness/blatant partisanship that provides grist for a charlatan Donald Trump's mill. Has reporting what you're rooting for the news to be instead of what it is (on all networks, including FOX) the new normal?

It happens, but I don't think it has become the new normal...at least on the larger, established networks.

My guess is that it was more a matter of moving quickly to beat the competition to the story...not moving to affect the market or political discourse.  The big networks still do care about their long-term reputation for accuracy.  If they didn't, they would not have admitted the error....

Lennys Tap

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2017, 08:34:42 AM »
It happens, but I don't think it has become the new normal...at least on the larger, established networks.

My guess is that it was more a matter of moving quickly to beat the competition to the story...not moving to affect the market or political discourse.  The big networks still do care about their long-term reputation for accuracy.  If they didn't, they would not have admitted the error....

How could they not "admit their error" when they were caught? And doesn't it seem more than coincidental that FOX regularly makes "errors" or "interprets" the facts to put Trump in a positive light while ABC, NBC, CBS and MSNBC do the exact opposite?

GGGG

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2017, 08:36:16 AM »
The stock market took a tumble when ABC news reported yesterday that Michael Flynn said that Trump directed him to contact the Russians BEFORE the election. Of course it rallied right back when ABC admitted their error, but this is the kind of sloppiness/blatant partisanship that provides grist for a charlatan Donald Trump's mill. Has reporting what you're rooting for the news to be instead of what it is (on all networks, including FOX) the new normal?


That's a load of crap.  The "see this is why people support Trump" excuse doesn't hold up when he out and out lies and his supporters either ignore it or act like it is no big deal.

People support Trump because he appeals to a time where men were men and minorities knew their place, and blames others for their current economic situation.  Turns out they elected a wolf in sheep's clothing that is going to continue economic policies that chipped away at the working class to begin with.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2017, 08:39:16 AM »

That's a load of crap.  The "see this is why people support Trump" excuse doesn't hold up when he out and out lies and his supporters either ignore it or act like it is no big deal.

People support Trump because he appeals to a time where men were men and minorities knew their place, and blames others for their current economic situation.  Turns out they elected a wolf in sheep's clothing that is going to continue economic policies that chipped away at the working class to begin with.

Your unbiased, measured, fact filled rather than emotion driven response makes my point. Thank you.

GGGG

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2017, 08:40:44 AM »
Your unbiased, measured, fact filled rather than emotion driven response makes my point. Thank you.

Thank you.  I know I am correct about this.

There is zero evidence that Trump gives a damn about a good portion of the electorate that voted for him.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 08:42:26 AM by Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' »

GooooMarquette

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 08:49:33 AM »
How could they not "admit their error" when they were caught? And doesn't it seem more than coincidental that FOX regularly makes "errors" or "interprets" the facts to put Trump in a positive light while ABC, NBC, CBS and MSNBC do the exact opposite?

There are plenty of examples in Washington of people who are caught in lies, yet never admit their errors.... ;)

As for news outlets, I was talking about legitimate news outlets admitting errors.  To your specific question - perhaps the first time they learned about it was when they were caught.  And still, they could have spun the story, but they did the proper thing and just said they were wrong.  Do you think Breitbart would ever do that...or would they call the correct story "fake news"?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2017, 08:51:21 AM »
Thank you.  I know I am correct about this.

There is zero evidence that Trump gives a damn about a good portion of the electorate that voted for him.

Voters are a means to an end for politicians. Do you really think Mitch McConnell or Chuck Schumer give a spit about the people who voted for them? Please.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2017, 09:00:14 AM »
There are plenty of examples in Washington of people who are caught in lies, yet never admit their errors.... ;)

As for news outlets, I was talking about legitimate news outlets admitting errors.  To your specific question - perhaps the first time they learned about it was when they were caught.  And still, they could have spun the story, but they did the proper thing and just said they were wrong.  Do you think Breitbart would ever do that...or would they call the correct story "fake news"?

I don't read Breitbart so I don't know if they publish corrections to factual errors, but there was no way this error could have been spun - you can give "credit" to ABC for admitting they were caught red handed but I don't see that as particularly virtuous.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2017, 09:18:29 AM »
A couple of thoughts ...

As you know I trade for a living so from my perspective the media is not reporting this properly.  There were two "stories" that hit roughly at the same time ... a rumor that the tax bill vote was going to be delayed and the Flynn story.  If anything, the tax bill rumor was about 5 minutes before the ABC story broke.  The market dived 100+ DJIA points in 5 minutes and kept diving through the Flynn story. The market recovered throughout the day as the rumor of a delayed vote proved wrong.  Remember the DJIA was up 300 points the day before (Thursday) on McCain and Murkowski saying they would vote for the tax bill, so yes, this was a very big deal. It was more than just Flynn yesterday.

Also as shown below, they did not "clarify/correct" the story until well after the market closed.  So the market did not recover on the "clarification/correction."  The recovery on the no delayed vote proving to be wrong makes more sense.




Second regarding fake news ...

The day before The New York Times reported that Trump was going to fire SecState Tillerson and replace him with Mike Pompeo.  Trump and Tillerson both said that was wrong (aka "fake news"). So the fake news keeps coming and coming.  It seems like almost every day we get a "major" story for the press that is flat out wrong.  So the quality of press reporting seems to be at an all-time low.

And ABC News also showed they are a second rate organization in the way they tried to "clarify/correct" this story. 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/01/media/abc-news-flynn-correction/index.html

CNN had reached out to ABC News in the early afternoon to ask why Ross' initial reporting was not included in the network's online story about Flynn pleading guilty to lying to the FBI.

Several hours later, a spokesperson for the network told CNN that Ross would be issuing a "clarification" on "World News Tonight," which airs at 6:30 p.m. ET.

"[A] clarification tonight on something one of Flynn's confidants told us and we reported earlier today," Ross said on the program. "He said the president had asked Flynn to contact Russia during the campaign. He's now clarifying that saying, according to Flynn, candidate Trump asked him during the campaign to find ways to repair relations with Russia and other world hot spots. And then after the election, the president-elect asked him to contact Russia on issues including working together to fight ISIS."

A tweet published by ABC News containing Ross' initial report had been retweeted more than 25,000 times and embedded in various news stories online before it was deleted. ABC posted a "clarification" on Twitter around 8 p.m.
An ABC spokesperson said the network learned its initial reporting was incorrect at about 6 p.m. The network spokesperson declined to say if any disciplinary action would occur.

ABC's decision to call its correction a "clarification" prompted immediate criticism.

"If we want to regain trust in the media, we need to admit our mistakes, especially when as consequential as this. Retract. Correct. Don't use weasel words to describe it," Jonathan Swan of Axios tweeted.
 
Greta Van Susteren blasted ABC for trying to "sugar coat" its mistake by characterizing it as a "clarification."

Shortly before 11 p.m., after a barrage of criticism, ABC posted a new tweet with the header "Correction" instead of "Clarification" followed by the same text as the prior tweet. The original tweet was deleted.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 09:40:37 AM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2017, 09:26:15 AM »
Your unbiased, measured, fact filled rather than emotion driven response makes my point. Thank you.

This happens in every politically oriented post here.  Agree with their philosophy or undirected hate/rage is rained down on you.  The poster you are commenting on is one of the worst offenders here ... agree with him or get buried in hate and insults.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 09:41:54 AM by 1.21 Jigawatts »

GGGG

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2017, 09:46:42 AM »
This happens in every politically oriented post here.  Agree with their philosophy or undirected hate/rage is rained down on you.  The poster you are commenting on is one of the worst offenders here ... agree with him or get buried in hate and insults.


Blah.  Pseudo intellectuals such as yourself are 100 times more annoying.

There was zero irrationality in my original post.  Trump capitalized on the white victimization that the right has been preaching for years, while using it as an opportunity to pass their corporatist policies.  How is that wrong?

GGGG

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2017, 09:52:49 AM »

Second regarding fake news ...

The day before The New York Times reported that Trump was going to fire SecState Tillerson and replace him with Mike Pompeo.  Trump and Tillerson both said that was wrong (aka "fake news"). So the fake news keeps coming and coming.  It seems like almost every day we get a "major" story for the press that is flat out wrong.  So the quality of press reporting seems to be at an all-time low.


Again, it would be helpful if you would be truthful on what was reported by the Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/state-department-tillerson-pompeo-trump.html

"The White House has developed a plan to force out Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson, whose relationship with President Trump has been strained, and replace him with Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director, perhaps within the next several weeks, senior administration officials said on Thursday."

So because Trump said that this wasn't going to happen, you're going to take it at face value that the White House hasn't "developed a plan" like this?  Just because they have denied it doesn't mean this plan wasn't developed or floated.  I mean, it doesn't state that Trump is moving forward with this plan.

The problem is that people should learn to comprehend the written word. 

EDIT:  I would say that I trust reputable news sources with a track record of being almost always correct.  The NYT and Wall Street Journal are great examples of that.  (I don't care for either of their opinion pages however.)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 09:57:43 AM by Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' »

MUBurrow

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2017, 09:53:51 AM »
The stock market took a tumble when ABC news reported yesterday that Michael Flynn said that Trump directed him to contact the Russians BEFORE the election. Of course it rallied right back when ABC admitted their error, but this is the kind of sloppiness/blatant partisanship that provides grist for a charlatan Donald Trump's mill. Has reporting what you're rooting for the news to be instead of what it is (on all networks, including FOX) the new normal?

Counterpoint: maaaayyyyybbee a stock market sufficiently sensitive to that news to "tumble," combined with the fact that stock market growth has had an inverse relationship with average household wealth for the last 30 years, suggest the daily valuations of a couple hundred companies isn't the best measuring stick for the largest economy in the world.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2017, 10:07:56 AM »
The stock market took a tumble when ABC news reported yesterday that Michael Flynn said that Trump directed him to contact the Russians BEFORE the election. Of course it rallied right back when ABC admitted their error, but this is the kind of sloppiness/blatant partisanship that provides grist for a charlatan Donald Trump's mill. Has reporting what you're rooting for the news to be instead of what it is (on all networks, including FOX) the new normal?

Any person who has a true interest in the "market" knows that the Dow is for amateurs and the S&P is the true indicator of where it all stands. It finished down 5 yesterday.

That's not cause for anyone to wake up this morning ranting about market conditions. But this being America you are certainly entitled to a tantrum, no matter it's (ill)legitimacy.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 10:19:52 AM »

Again, it would be helpful if you would be truthful on what was reported by the Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/state-department-tillerson-pompeo-trump.html

"The White House has developed a plan to force out Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson, whose relationship with President Trump has been strained, and replace him with Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director, perhaps within the next several weeks, senior administration officials said on Thursday."

So because Trump said that this wasn't going to happen, you're going to take it at face value that the White House hasn't "developed a plan" like this?  Just because they have denied it doesn't mean this plan wasn't developed or floated.  I mean, it doesn't state that Trump is moving forward with this plan.

The problem is that people should learn to comprehend the written word. 

EDIT:  I would say that I trust reputable news sources with a track record of being almost always correct.  The NYT and Wall Street Journal are great examples of that.  (I don't care for either of their opinion pages however.)

Yes, Tillerson is not being replaced in the next few weeks ... the NYT got it wrong.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 10:21:20 AM »
Counterpoint: maaaayyyyybbee a stock market sufficiently sensitive to that news to "tumble," combined with the fact that stock market growth has had an inverse relationship with average household wealth for the last 30 years, suggest the daily valuations of a couple hundred companies isn't the best measuring stick for the largest economy in the world.

Its this.  People are waiting for the bubble to pop and are trying to get out ahead of it.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 10:23:33 AM »

Blah.  Pseudo intellectuals such as yourself are 100 times more annoying.

There was zero irrationality in my original post.  Trump capitalized on the white victimization that the right has been preaching for years, while using it as an opportunity to pass their corporatist policies.  How is that wrong?

This what you do best, you express an OPINION  and then demand that it is correct and everyone agree with your OPINION.   

And when someone doesn’t agree with your OPINION, as you started to do in your first paragraph above, you just rain hate and insults on them.

Benny B

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 10:24:26 AM »
Fake news.... he new profit scheme.  While the pawns play the politics game, the smart ones we’re making themselves a few G’s around 2:30p yesterday.

Here’s an idea.... forget about what’s going on in Washington, because it’s all just smoke and mirrors.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 10:25:26 AM »
Its this.  People are waiting for the bubble to pop and are trying to get out ahead of it.

“Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections, or trying to anticipate corrections, than has been lost in corrections themselves.” – Peter Lynch

forgetful

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 10:39:50 AM »
I don't read Breitbart so I don't know if they publish corrections to factual errors, but there was no way this error could have been spun - you can give "credit" to ABC for admitting they were caught red handed but I don't see that as particularly virtuous.

Your wording here assumes that ABC made this error intentionally, and corrected it after being "caught in a lie".  That assumption is assuredly wrong. 

Instead, ABC here made an error, very likely from a source that said Trump, instead of Kushner.  It appears to be true that Kushner ordered the russian contact. 

They admitted their error, I almost never see Foxnews or Breitbart make a correction.  They may take down the article, because it doesn't meet "editorial standards", but that is different than admitting they are incorrect.

An example is a lot of the work done by Project Veritas, that is widely published by Foxnews/Breitbart, that has repeatedly been shown to be edited or filmed entirely to present a false narrative.  The group just got busted again trying to create a fake assault accuser to catch WaPo in making errors...it backfired.  Foxnews/Breitbart continue to push stories by Veritas despite the fact that they are repeatedly shown to be false.

Pakuni

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2017, 10:40:39 AM »
Your unbiased, measured, fact filled rather than emotion driven response makes my point. Thank you.

Let's all remember this is the same Lenny who just recently decried all the personal attacks on Scoop.


And I'll note for the record you didn't actually disagree with anything Sultan wrote.

Pakuni

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Re: Stock Market Drops 250 Points on Fake News
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 10:44:26 AM »
Your wording here assumes that ABC made this error intentionally, and corrected it after being "caught in a lie".  That assumption is assuredly wrong. 

Instead, ABC here made an error, very likely from a source that said Trump, instead of Kushner.  It appears to be true that Kushner ordered the russian contact. 

They admitted their error, I almost never see Foxnews or Breitbart make a correction.  They may take down the article, because it doesn't meet "editorial standards", but that is different than admitting they are incorrect.

An example is a lot of the work done by Project Veritas, that is widely published by Foxnews/Breitbart, that has repeatedly been shown to be edited or filmed entirely to present a false narrative.  The group just got busted again trying to create a fake assault accuser to catch WaPo in making errors...it backfired.  Foxnews/Breitbart continue to push stories by Veritas despite the fact that they are repeatedly shown to be false.


Sadly, ABC continues to exercise journalistic malpractice by employing Brian Ross.

That said, at the end of the day, I'm not sure how much it matters. Mueller obviously has Trump in his sights and there's little reason to believe so far that he won't get him.