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Author Topic: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million  (Read 10296 times)

MU82

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Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« on: November 28, 2017, 07:52:57 AM »
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article186711158.html

The CEO of Novant Health saw his compensation rise more than 16 percent in 2016. One of Charlotte’s biggest hospital systems, Novant awarded Carl Armato a total of $3.4 million in 2016, including a salary of $1.3 million and bonus and incentive compensation of $1.4 million. The rest included retirement payments, insurance and other benefits.

The 16.6 percent jump in compensation came in a year when Novant posted stronger financial results than the previous year. The Winston-Salem-based system reported $4.3 billion in revenue, up 5.1 percent, according to its annual report. Net income was $412.8 million, up 115.5 percent.

As a private nonprofit, Novant Health publishes executive compensation each year in its Internal Revenue Service Form 990. Novant released its latest 990 this month.

This year marks Armato’s sixth as CEO at Novant, where he was previously chief operating officer. The 2016 report shows Armato and 10 other executives made more than $1 million apiece.


As is the case with other nonprofit hospitals, this place gets major, major tax benefits. In other words, taxpayers like me and you chip in toward these outrageous salaries.

These major nonprofits, by law, have to put profits back into the hospital. They do this in two major ways: 1. By building, building, building; my wife's hospital keeps building new stuff, some of which has been seriously underutilized. 2. By lavishing huge raises on executives.

My wife actually is a nurse at the largest hospital in the Carolinas, the direct competitor to the above hospital. They have several dozen managers making more than $1 million each, and those managers routinely get double-digit percentage raises. The HR director makes more than $1.5 million. The freakin' HR director!

Even though my wife has received the highest employee scores possible in each of her 7 annual reviews, she (like the rest of the RNs) has never received a raise of more than 2.5%; most raises were closer to 1.5%. And her health insurance costs have risen at a rate that has outpaced her salary bumps, so she actually receives less in total compensation today than she did several years ago.

Now, I am not suggesting that Mrs. 82 make anywhere near what any of the managers do. They are responsible for hundreds or even thousands of employees under them, and they have major responsibilities.

But I seriously doubt any of them did their jobs 8x better than she did last year to merit a raise that was 8x higher than she got on a percentage basis. This personifies the disconnect between the rich and the middle class.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2017, 07:59:47 AM »
These major nonprofits, by law, have to put profits back into the hospital. They do this in two major ways: 1. By building, building, building; my wife's hospital keeps building new stuff, some of which has been seriously underutilized. 2. By lavishing huge raises on executives.


That's not really accurate.  By law, non-profits don't have owners so there is no one to pay dividends to.  They don't have to build.  They don't have to give compensation.  They can hold everything in cash reserve if they want.

The question I have is, is the salary excessive when compared to the market?  Non-profit compensation is fine if it is consistent with the marketplace. 

jesmu84

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 08:08:20 AM »
If he met his contract goals, and then some, then his award is deemed appropriate.

Like sultan said, how does his compensation compare to the marketplace.

Having said that, I'd want to know how his staff feels. Are they competitively compensated? Do they use temp workers? Maintain floors with short staff? Etc.

Lots of ways to meet "bottom line" targets, stress your staff to the max and get your bonus.

In my opinion, and I realize it's not a popular one, bring down exec/etc compensation across the board slightly to increase staff, staff compensation, long term success, patient/customer care, etc.

warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 08:20:26 AM »
If he met his contract goals, and then some, then his award is deemed appropriate.

Like sultan said, how does his compensation compare to the marketplace.

Having said that, I'd want to know how his staff feels. Are they competitively compensated? Do they use temp workers? Maintain floors with short staff? Etc.

Lots of ways to meet "bottom line" targets, stress your staff to the max and get your bonus.

In my opinion, and I realize it's not a popular one, bring down exec/etc compensation across the board slightly to increase staff, staff compensation, long term success, patient/customer care, etc.

Novant Health has over 26,000 employees.  The CEO could work for free and split his pay among all the other workers, and they would each receive a raise of a whopping $130.


Yes, maybe Novant could hire a handful of additional workers if they found someone who was willing to take the job for say, $2 million.  But if the bottom line of the hospital drops by $5 million because New Guy wasn't as effective a leader, is that really the smart business move?
Have some patience, FFS.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 08:21:48 AM »
I agree with Sultan -- market is key.

Another question that I think is important:  looking at the mission of this particular non-profit, what will they be doing with the approximately $200 million increase in revenues that were achieved last year.  If the CEO is furthering the mission to the tune of an extra $200 million, I'm not going to begrudge him the bonus/increase absent any evidence that it was inappropriate.  Some people are very skilled and do great work and are highly compensated.  If the company is performing well -- as this hospital clearly did last year -- my default position is to not question the salary because I don't have all the other data points that contribute to deciding whether he's overpaid.  A big number, by itself, doesn't bother me.  A big number only bothers me is there is something that suggests to me that it is inappropriate.  Unless someone can show me that it is out of line, $3.4 million for the CEO of a $4.3 billion hospital system doesn't seem out of line to me.  A very quick research of our local systems (2015 numbers):  Cleveland Clinic's CEO made $4.8 million ($6.8 billion revenue) and UHHS' CEO made $2.1 million ($2.6 billion revenue).
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 09:10:54 AM »
Thanks for the different insights provided so far. Appreciate both the clarifications on some facts and the tone of the discussion.

A couple of things ...

I was not begrudging the CEO his compensation per se. I was just saying that taking a 16% raise on an already 7-figure salary while the highly-regarded people who have actual contact with the patients get 2% is, at worst, bad optics. I can't speak for this hospital, but my wife's hospital - the largest health-care chain in the entire Southeast - is woefully understaffed in many departments.

chickadee, I understand what you're saying but I never really care for the argument that reducing the CEO's pay of any company would only give X number of employees X more dollars each. Again, I'm not really asking for that. How about just giving the highly-graded employees the same percentage raise in compensation? Or how about a mega health-care company giving its employees access to health care that isn't outrageously expensive?

I don't really expect to solve any "problems" here. And I know (and respect) that many folks might think there aren't any problems at all here. I just think it's an interesting situation to discuss, and again I am happy we are doing so with a measure of decorum so far.
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PBRme

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 09:38:52 AM »
Instead of putting cash in reserve they could lower prices or provide more reduced cost or no cost services
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 02:06:06 PM by PBRme »
Peace, Love, and Rye Whiskey...May your life and your glass always be full

GGGG

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 09:48:33 AM »
Instead of putting cash in reserve they could lower prices or provide more reduced cost of no cost services


Maybe they are already doing that.

https://www.novanthealth.org/home/patients--visitors/your-healthcare-costs/financial-assistance-for-the-uninsured.aspx

Jay Bee

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 07:09:24 PM »
Reasonable pay.
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Tugg Speedman

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 08:14:26 PM »
I was not begrudging the CEO his compensation per se.

Yes you were ...and how many threads have to start on this subject ... that anyone in healthcare management in any capacity is essentially an overpaid criminal. 

4everwarriors

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 08:17:35 PM »
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 09:42:26 PM »
Yes you were ...and how many threads have to start on this subject ... that anyone in healthcare management in any capacity is essentially an overpaid criminal.

As I said, the discussion had been reasonable and respectful.

Until you showed up.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

forgetful

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 10:48:01 PM »
Novant Health has over 26,000 employees.  The CEO could work for free and split his pay among all the other workers, and they would each receive a raise of a whopping $130.


Yes, maybe Novant could hire a handful of additional workers if they found someone who was willing to take the job for say, $2 million.  But if the bottom line of the hospital drops by $5 million because New Guy wasn't as effective a leader, is that really the smart business move?

I've always hated this argument.  It assumes he is the only one getting these massive benefits.  The fact is that at most institutions, companies etc., the highest wage earners get raises of 10%+.  That accounts for the vast majority of the raise pool.  The rest of the workers are told they have to get by with a 1-2% raise. 

If you took all those 10%+ raises and divided them amongst the common worker, they would likely easily see 4-5% raises. 

I did the calculation for a few Universities that release their numbers once, and the top 50 wage earners average annual raises of ~12%.  The rest of the employees average 1.9%.  If you froze the raises for the top 50 wage earners at ~1.9% instead, you could have given everyone of the remaining employees around a $3,000 raise.  This isn't isolated to Universities, this is a nationwide, industry wide problem of income increases going to the top 1, or top 0.1% of individuals. 

#UnleashSean

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2017, 01:53:30 AM »
Unfortunately your wife is easily replaceable. The CEO, not so much. Have to keep the indispensable people happy. If your wife feels that she is not making enough/losing compensation, other hospitals are hiring. It's 2017, loyalty is crap, shop around for a new employer.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2017, 05:18:44 AM »
I've always hated this argument.  It assumes he is the only one getting these massive benefits.  The fact is that at most institutions, companies etc., the highest wage earners get raises of 10%+.  That accounts for the vast majority of the raise pool.  The rest of the workers are told they have to get by with a 1-2% raise. 

If you took all those 10%+ raises and divided them amongst the common worker, they would likely easily see 4-5% raises. 

I did the calculation for a few Universities that release their numbers once, and the top 50 wage earners average annual raises of ~12%.  The rest of the employees average 1.9%.  If you froze the raises for the top 50 wage earners at ~1.9% instead, you could have given everyone of the remaining employees around a $3,000 raise.  This isn't isolated to Universities, this is a nationwide, industry wide problem of income increases going to the top 1, or top 0.1% of individuals.

   i'm sure you as well as many others here, have read animal farm.  man, george orwell was a genius, eyn'er? 

  #ulrowsey-right on!!

  82-the reason you don't like chicks argument is because it's effective and very pertinent.  typically when raises are considered, the company has so much they can allocate.  the person overseeing the others has a lot of responsibility.  therefore, he/she gets more money.  also refer to #rowsey comment .  if they are understaffed, it sure isn't reflected in their numbers.  2.5% raises is about in the middle for large companies.  when one makes money, they have to show expenses to off set it.  eventually the building process will or should show some productivity.  the building should also show a vision looking forward.  being ready for and/or being able to handle more going forward. 

   here's another thought and don't take it the wrong way, but i believe everyone needs to experience what it's like to own/run your own business.  experience the risks, the pressures, the forces to meet requirements, etc etc and then ask yourself-am i being paid enough to do this?  there are always pros and cons.  rarely has a business not had a little class envy.  when i note or feel this is happening?  i can do one of two things-get rid of the squeaky wheel and replace it with a nice new shiny one or grease it.  most of my employees have been with me 10-30 years.  we even retired one who started with my dad right out of high school(over 50 years of employment total)
don't...don't don't don't don't

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 08:15:15 AM »
Unfortunately your wife is easily replaceable. The CEO, not so much. Have to keep the indispensable people happy. If your wife feels that she is not making enough/losing compensation, other hospitals are hiring. It's 2017, loyalty is crap, shop around for a new employer.

Oh, I understand this. I have made this argument for years when discussing the salaries pro athletes get with naive people who think nurses, teachers and firefighters should make more than LeBron and Brady because the nurses, teachers and firefighters are "more valuable to society" than LeBron and Brady.

Nobody is holding a gun to my wife's head. She theoretically could leave for a higher-paying gig - although that would require her to leave NC, as she's in the highest-paying hospital system now. She also could go back to school and get the degree necessary to go into management if she wants more money (and more responsibility). But ...

Is that the message we want to send the nurses who treat our kids? (My wife is a pediatric RN) That they are easily replaceable and not especially important?

And again, I am not in any way saying pay nurses more than CEOs. That's silly. It's like saying pay a cop more than the actor who plays a cop in the movies.

All I was talking about was giving the CEO and other top executives double-digit percentage raises on their already significant salaries while giving the highest-ranked nursing staff - the creme de la creme - 2% raises. To me, it seems wrong. Others can (and have) disagreed.

And yes, I'll admit it's possible I'm biased because my wife is a nurse. But I would say it for many other professions, too. Obviously, the state superintendent of schools is going to make more money than a teacher. But when it is time to dole out the raises, do you really want to give the top dog a 16% raise on his/her $400,000 salary while only giving a 2% raise to the $40K teacher ... and then go out on the political stump claiming to value teachers?

See, I don't think you suggest a nurse or teacher is more "valuable" or less "replaceable" than the executive if you bump up the CEO or superintendent's pay "only" 5% to $3.2 million or $420,000, while also bumping up the nurse or teacher's salary 5% to $42,000.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Benny B

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 09:16:14 AM »
82 -- I have two sisters who are RN's, and while I have no idea how much they're being paid, I can say without a doubt that they're both being grossly overcompensated. 

If you want, I'll have one of them pass your wife's resume along.




Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2017, 10:55:31 AM »
Oh, I understand this. I have made this argument for years when discussing the salaries pro athletes get with naive people who think nurses, teachers and firefighters should make more than LeBron and Brady because the nurses, teachers and firefighters are "more valuable to society" than LeBron and Brady.

Nobody is holding a gun to my wife's head. She theoretically could leave for a higher-paying gig - although that would require her to leave NC, as she's in the highest-paying hospital system now. She also could go back to school and get the degree necessary to go into management if she wants more money (and more responsibility). But ...

Is that the message we want to send the nurses who treat our kids? (My wife is a pediatric RN) That they are easily replaceable and not especially important?

And again, I am not in any way saying pay nurses more than CEOs. That's silly. It's like saying pay a cop more than the actor who plays a cop in the movies.

All I was talking about was giving the CEO and other top executives double-digit percentage raises on their already significant salaries while giving the highest-ranked nursing staff - the creme de la creme - 2% raises. To me, it seems wrong. Others can (and have) disagreed.

And yes, I'll admit it's possible I'm biased because my wife is a nurse. But I would say it for many other professions, too. Obviously, the state superintendent of schools is going to make more money than a teacher. But when it is time to dole out the raises, do you really want to give the top dog a 16% raise on his/her $400,000 salary while only giving a 2% raise to the $40K teacher ... and then go out on the political stump claiming to value teachers?

See, I don't think you suggest a nurse or teacher is more "valuable" or less "replaceable" than the executive if you bump up the CEO or superintendent's pay "only" 5% to $3.2 million or $420,000, while also bumping up the nurse or teacher's salary 5% to $42,000.

In total,  nurses, teachers and firefighters are paid more than the entire NFL becuase they are more valuable to society.  In total, I would guess than all the nurses in our wife’s hospital system are paid more then management.

So, our priorities are correct,  Capitalism works

Lastly, regarding her not wanting o leave NC.  that is a conscious choice she (and you) made to stay and the consequences are lower pay.  She is holding herself back by into wanting to move.  Note this is not specific to your wife, the number 1 reason that hold’s back one’s paycheck is a refusal to move.

warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2017, 11:20:42 AM »

See, I don't think you suggest a nurse or teacher is more "valuable" or less "replaceable" than the executive if you bump up the CEO or superintendent's pay "only" 5% to $3.2 million or $420,000, while also bumping up the nurse or teacher's salary 5% to $42,000.

If an experienced BSN working full-time is only making $42K, she is well under market.

Nursing grads nowadays are now among the highest paid coming out of school.  It shows you the beauty of the free market.  A couple of generations ago, nurses were horribly paid because it was one of the few  professional career options available to women.  Now women can have any job they want.  A lot of them who would have been nurses in the 50's and 60's are doctors and engineers now.  And guess what happened - there is a nursing shortage!  And how did organizations respond?  They started offering more money.  Now the pay is so good that even men are starting to get into the profession.

How many people can successfully run a major hospital company?  Only a handful.  And the difference between a hospital company run by a great CEO and a mediocre one can mean hundreds of millions of dollars in margin.  Isn't it only fair that the person responsible to get a reasonable sliver of that difference, espcially if the hospital down the street is willing to give it to them?  Through improved quality of care, efficient use of resources, and fundraising efforts,  high-performing CEO saves lives just as much as the nurses and doctors.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:26:07 AM by warriorchick »
Have some patience, FFS.

jesmu84

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2017, 12:37:21 PM »
If an experienced BSN working full-time is only making $42K, she is well under market.

Chick (or any others with information to contribute), I have a question since you seem knowledgable in the area. Where would one go for compensation information? For example, I'm a PA. If I wanted to know what I'm "worth", I'd need to know current market, and more specific regional, compensations for other PAs in my field/experience/etc. However, it's very hard to obtain that info. I can get some information from friends/co-workers/classmates, but that's only a handful. My professional organization provides some salary info, but it isn't significant either. My organization/HR department will not provide other PA information to me. Most online websites appear to be woefully lacking in information. Online message boards/forums, much like in real-life, people are reluctant to divulge information.

So, where do I, or anyone else, go for information to see what they should be worth or to use in a salary negotiation? Suggestions?

It is a frustrating situation and employers appear to hold all the power (information) in these situations.

Sir Lawrence

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2017, 12:44:58 PM »


So, where do I, or anyone else, go for information to see what they should be worth or to use in a salary negotiation? Suggestions?

It is a frustrating situation and employers appear to hold all the power (information) in these situations.

Have you looked at this?

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physician-assistants.htm

there is a regional tab as well.
Ludum habemus.

warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2017, 01:09:38 PM »
Chick (or any others with information to contribute), I have a question since you seem knowledgable in the area. Where would one go for compensation information? For example, I'm a PA. If I wanted to know what I'm "worth", I'd need to know current market, and more specific regional, compensations for other PAs in my field/experience/etc. However, it's very hard to obtain that info. I can get some information from friends/co-workers/classmates, but that's only a handful. My professional organization provides some salary info, but it isn't significant either. My organization/HR department will not provide other PA information to me. Most online websites appear to be woefully lacking in information. Online message boards/forums, much like in real-life, people are reluctant to divulge information.

So, where do I, or anyone else, go for information to see what they should be worth or to use in a salary negotiation? Suggestions?

It is a frustrating situation and employers appear to hold all the power (information) in these situations.

Are there any large recruiting firms that deal with PA's (Robert Half, as an example)? They often publish salary surveys.

Payscale.com has reliable information. That is what my company uses.  Also try salary.com
Have some patience, FFS.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2017, 01:25:27 PM »
The Bureau of Labor Statistics lists the median salary for an RN at almost $70k/year.

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/registered-nurses.htm

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2017, 01:48:32 PM »
OK, I've been shouted down by most here, and I accept that. I disagree, but that's cool, too. I appreciate the conversation.

Benny - just curious: Are your "grossly overcompensated" sisters in union environments?

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Benny B

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2017, 11:01:59 PM »
Benny - just curious: Are your "grossly overcompensated" sisters in union environments?

I honestly didn’t think so, but after giving it some thought, there’s no other logical explanation for them being employed.

Let me put it this way... I’d rather put my life in the hands of a capuchin monkey than one of my sisters.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 11:07:09 PM »
I honestly didn’t think so, but after giving it some thought, there’s no other logical explanation for them being employed.

Let me put it this way... I’d rather put my life in the hands of a capuchin monkey than one of my sisters.

Jeesh. Stop holding back, Benny. What do you really think of them?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Benny B

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 mill
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 11:30:48 PM »
Jeesh. Stop holding back, Benny. What do you really think of them?

I think they’re actually quite talented and more useful than most people give them credit for.  In fact, you wouldn’t think such a small monkey could be such a tremendous companion and helper to the disabled, but pound for pound, they are exponentially more valuable to society than all those “therapy” animals floating around.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

MUEng92

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 07:18:46 AM »
I honestly didn’t think so, but after giving it some thought, there’s no other logical explanation for them being employed.

Let me put it this way... I’d rather put my life in the hands of a capuchin monkey than one of my sisters.

Interesting...interesting...

So...these sisters of yours, they live a great distance from the Milwaukee area, right....RIGHT!?!

StillAWarrior

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 mill
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 07:29:52 AM »
...they are exponentially more valuable to society than all those “therapy” animals floating around.

Preach.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Benny B

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 09:56:58 AM »
Interesting...interesting...

So...these sisters of yours, they live a great distance from the Milwaukee area, right....RIGHT!?!

A very great distance... Madison.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 05:46:09 PM »
A very great distance... Madison.

They get overpaid in a communist nation?  Wow....

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2017, 08:56:12 AM »
I'm with you 82. I agree that CEOs, management types, etc should get higher salaries than nurses, teachers, grunts etc. That's a no brainer. They as individuals are more important, indispensable, and responsible for the company than any individual nurse-type. This should be recognized by a significantly higher salary, better benefits, corner office, personal massage therapist, etc. But once you get that recognition, I don't think you should be entitle to higher % raises just because of your position. In a perfect world, raises should be based on how you perform in your position. If the CEO is an average CEO, s/he should get a CEO's salary with an average raise. If the CEO is a superstar CEO, than yeah give him/her a 16% raise. If the CEO is a bad CEO, don't give them a raise (unless your one of those companies that always gives raises then give the minimum).

Salary and benefits should be reflective of the value you bring to the company. Raises should be reflective of how well you perform within the context of your position. I see no reason why a "C" CEO deserves a higher % raise than a "A+" grunt worker (or an A+ middle management type or A+ executive or A+ CFO). I'm probably being naive to how the world works, but IMHO the world would work better if raises were based on merit.
TAMU

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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 09:01:25 AM »
I'm with you 82. I agree that CEOs, management types, etc should get higher salaries than nurses, teachers, grunts etc. That's a no brainer. They as individuals are more important, indispensable, and responsible for the company than any individual nurse-type. This should be recognized by a significantly higher salary, better benefits, corner office, personal massage therapist, etc. But once you get that recognition, I don't think you should be entitle to higher % raises just because of your position. In a perfect world, raises should be based on how you perform in your position. If the CEO is an average CEO, s/he should get a CEO's salary with an average raise. If the CEO is a superstar CEO, than yeah give him/her a 16% raise. If the CEO is a bad CEO, don't give them a raise (unless your one of those companies that always gives raises then give the minimum).

Salary and benefits should be reflective of the value you bring to the company. Raises should be reflective of how well you perform within the context of your position. I see no reason why a "C" CEO deserves a higher % raise than a "A+" grunt worker (or an A+ middle management type or A+ executive or A+ CFO). I'm probably being naive to how the world works, but IMHO the world would work better if raises were based on merit.

Some would argue that we're both idealists, TAMU. I guess I plead guilty to that.

Even most CEOs who suck and get thrown out end up with huge golden parachutes. Jeff Immelt ran GE into the ground and check out his total compensation over the years. Sometimes, even those guilty of criminal behavior get big exit packages. It's an interesting world.
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rocket surgeon

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 06:55:00 PM »
Some would argue that we're both idealists, TAMU. I guess I plead guilty to that.

Even most CEOs who suck and get thrown out end up with huge golden parachutes. Jeff Immelt ran GE into the ground and check out his total compensation over the years. Sometimes, even those guilty of criminal behavior get big exit packages. It's an interesting world.

glad to see NBC told matt to take his bag of sex toys and call it even
don't...don't don't don't don't

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 08:50:01 PM »
glad to see NBC told matt to take his bag of sex toys and call it even

GE hasn't owned NBC for four years.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2017, 05:27:49 AM »
GE hasn't owned NBC for four years.

reference to "big shots" leaving/fired with big golden parachutes.  lauer wanted $30 million
don't...don't don't don't don't

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2017, 05:42:05 AM »
reference to "big shots" leaving/fired with big golden parachutes.  lauer wanted $30 million

Oh.

The difference, of course, is that not only doesn't GE own NBC (as Lazar pointed out), but that Lauer didn't get the $30 million.

Matt Lauer will not get his $30 million payout from NBC News, network bosses have ruled, even though his lawyers argue he still has over a year left on his contract. The disgraced anchor will not be paid a day past the last one he worked, NBC News president Noah Oppenheim ruled on Friday during a tense meeting with “NBC Nightly News” staff.

Otherwise ... great point!

But don't worry, rocket. He'll get millions of dollars from the tax cut for billionaires that most Americans disapprove of.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 05:43:40 AM by MU82 »
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rocket surgeon

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2017, 03:36:12 PM »
Oh.

The difference, of course, is that not only doesn't GE own NBC (as Lazar pointed out), but that Lauer didn't get the $30 million.

Matt Lauer will not get his $30 million payout from NBC News, network bosses have ruled, even though his lawyers argue he still has over a year left on his contract. The disgraced anchor will not be paid a day past the last one he worked, NBC News president Noah Oppenheim ruled on Friday during a tense meeting with “NBC Nightly News” staff.

Otherwise ... great point!

But don't worry, rocket. He'll get millions of dollars from the tax cut for billionaires that most Americans disapprove of.

  probably, but i think he's lost his "main squeeze" eyn'er  she done left for the netherlands.  he may be filing as an individual here pretty quick

don't...don't don't don't don't

Jay Bee

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2017, 01:02:36 PM »
So, umm, like... how much do all of you make?
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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2017, 04:56:40 PM »
So, umm, like... how much do all of you make?

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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 06:42:43 AM »
Before filing for bankruptcy in September, Toys R Us paid top executives more than $8 million in "retention bonuses." They also doled out use of jets and limousines.

Now, they are going to pay the same executives tens of millions more if they reach certain incentives. Apparently, their outrageous salaries and perks packages were not enough to motivate them to do their jobs well.

Again, these are the same execs who guided the company to abject failure.

'Merica!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toys-r-us-bankruptcy/u-s-judge-approves-toys-r-us-bonus-plan-to-spur-holiday-shopping-idUSKBN1DZ37C

(Reuters) - Toys ‘R’ Us won court approval on Tuesday for plan to pay top executives up to $21 million in bonuses by arguing that the money will incentivize them to boost the bankrupt retailer’s sales during the critical year-end shopping season.

“The company is laser-focused on the holidays,” Toys ‘R’ Us lawyer Joshua Sussberg said at a hearing at the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Richmond, Virginia.

Sussberg said Toys ‘R’ Us Chief Executive David Brandon, one of the bonus plan beneficiaries, estimates that only half of the U.S. population has completed their holiday purchases. That indicates there is still time to motivate shoppers “to buy as much as they can.”

Toy ‘R’ Us, the largest U.S. toy retailer, makes 40 percent of net sales in the fourth quarter and its performance during the holiday season could drive the outcome of its attempted turnaround during a seismic shift in the retail industry.

Judge Keith Phillips approved the bonus plan over an objection by the U.S. Trustee, a government bankruptcy watchdog, after Toys ‘R’ Us advisers called the payments reasonable.

Many bankrupt companies pay bonuses as a way to motivate executives to reach earnings targets.

Under the Toys ‘R’ Us plan, 17 eligible executives would split about $21 million if earnings before interest, depreciation and amortization for this fiscal year reach $641 million. Sussberg called the target “incredibly hard to achieve.”

Executives would split about $14 million if earnings reach $550 million. The terms were revised after a complaint from unsecured creditors, who ultimately backed the plan.

The U.S. Trustee blasted the proposal, saying five of the potential recipients split $8.2 million in retention bonuses a week before the Sept. 19 bankruptcy filing, and noted other salary perks for Brandon such as aircraft and limousine use.

The loss-making company - with 64,000 employees, about 1,600 stores and $5 billion of debt - has faced a growing challenge from online platforms like Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O).

On Monday, Toys ‘R’ Us UK said it plans to close at least 26 of its 105 stores in Britain in 2018.

Toys ‘R’ Us, which plans to spend around $1 billion over the next few years to transform its big box stores and improve consumer experiences, has not yet unveiled planned U.S. store closures.

The company wants to present a business plan by July 15, with the hope of exiting bankruptcy before next year’s holiday season, Sussberg said.
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warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 06:59:28 AM »
So, don't shop at Toys R Us and don't buy their stock.  The board of directors have every right to run it into the ground if they want.
Have some patience, FFS.

mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 mill
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 08:01:35 AM »
I think they’re actually quite talented and more useful than most people give them credit for.  In fact, you wouldn’t think such a small monkey could be such a tremendous companion and helper to the disabled, but pound for pound, they are exponentially more valuable to society than all those “therapy” animals floating around.

Benny, you own me for the monitor I just ruined spitting tea on it in reading this response.
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Benny B

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 mill
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 09:38:53 AM »
Benny, you own me for the monitor I just ruined spitting tea on it in reading this response.

While you should damn well know better than to drink anything while perusing the Superbar, what kind of tea?
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2017, 10:28:52 AM »
So, umm, like... how much do all of you make?

More than enough but less than I should.

Read an article the other day that the whole don't talk about your salary stigma is a tool that keeps people from asking to all to be paid what they are worth.  Makes sense but I still don't feel comfortable with it
TAMU

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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2017, 10:33:13 AM »
More than enough but less than I should.

Read an article the other day that the whole don't talk about your salary stigma is a tool that keeps people from asking to all to be paid what they are worth.  Makes sense but I still don't feel comfortable with it

It's irrelevant to share what one makes with folks on an interwebs board who are in all kinds of different professions, which I'm sure you know.

What a doctor or firefighter or journalist or CEO makes has nothing to do with each other.

Back when I worked for a large media company, several friends and I agreed to tell each other what we made for just the reason you're suggesting. We wanted the "power" that comes with knowledge.
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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2017, 10:34:45 AM »
So, don't shop at Toys R Us and don't buy their stock.  The board of directors have every right to run it into the ground if they want.

True enough, chickadee. Indeed, shoppers by and large have decided that Toys R Us isn't for them.

I guess this only matters if one is a Toys R Us shareholder or if one is concerned about wealth disparity - and reasons for it - in the USA.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2017, 10:58:59 AM »
True enough, chickadee. Indeed, shoppers by and large have decided that Toys R Us isn't for them.

I guess this only matters if one is a Toys R Us shareholder or if one is concerned about wealth disparity - and reasons for it - in the USA.

Again, it's not like spreading this executives' pay among the thousands of minimum wage Toys R Us workers are going to improve their quality of life.

Maybe there was reason to believe that bribing keeping these people to stay was preferable to complete turnover in the C-Suite.  If their replacements hasten the death of the company, the quicker it will throw those minimum wage earners out of work.

But that's okay, as long as the executives aren't "overpaid".
Have some patience, FFS.

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2017, 11:11:00 AM »
Again, it's not like spreading this executives' pay among the thousands of minimum wage Toys R Us workers are going to improve their quality of life.

Maybe there was reason to believe that bribing keeping these people to stay was preferable to complete turnover in the C-Suite.  If their replacements hasten the death of the company, the quicker it will throw those minimum wage earners out of work.

But that's okay, as long as the executives aren't "overpaid".

And again, those are some sad-arse executives if the only way to motivate them beyond their already high compensation packages and perks is by throwing the temptation of more money at them.

It's like saying, "Well, the team has gone 15-98 over the last 5 seasons and our attendance is down 60% and we're having trouble funding the athletic program ... but not only will we keep you and your coaching staff, we'll double your salaries if you win a few games next season."

I think I favor the complete turnover of the C-Suite.

And to me, yes, I admit it's a matter of principle, too. I know you disagree with that, and that's cool.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2017, 11:27:26 AM »
Again, it's not like spreading this executives' pay among the thousands of minimum wage Toys R Us workers are going to improve their quality of life.

Maybe there was reason to believe that bribing keeping these people to stay was preferable to complete turnover in the C-Suite.  If their replacements hasten the death of the company, the quicker it will throw those minimum wage earners out of work.


But that's okay, as long as the executives aren't "overpaid".

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the worst possible scenario for shareholders (and creditors) is for Toys R Us to have to close the doors before the Christmas season.  I'm guessing  that's why these retention and incentive bonuses were proposed, and why they were approved by the bankruptcy judge.
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GGGG

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2017, 11:39:21 AM »
So, don't shop at Toys R Us and don't buy their stock.  The board of directors have every right to run it into the ground if they want.

Not if they are under bankruptcy protection. 

jesmu84

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2017, 11:40:56 AM »
More than enough but less than I should.

Read an article the other day that the whole don't talk about your salary stigma is a tool that keeps people from asking to all to be paid what they are worth.  Makes sense but I still don't feel comfortable with it

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/7xH7eGFuSYI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/7xH7eGFuSYI</a>

Lennys Tap

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2017, 11:53:45 AM »
More than enough but less than I should.



Want to be happier? Subscribe to "More than I need and all that I want". Envy of others and overvaluations of self are common barriers to fulfillment. Be grateful. You are fortunate enough to live in a country where you can choose any path - some provide more monetary compensation, others provide rewards beyond dollars. If you're unhappy with your choice make a new one. "Less than I should" shouldn't (and needn't) apply.


Pakuni

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2017, 11:54:12 AM »
So, don't shop at Toys R Us and don't buy their stock.  The board of directors have every right to run it into the ground if they want.

Ummm, no, they don't.
The board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to act in the corporation's and shareholders' best interests.
Running the company into the ground" seems contrary to that.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 11:56:01 AM by Pakuni »

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2017, 12:51:23 PM »
Ummm, no, they don't.
The board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to act in the corporation's and shareholders' best interests.
Running the company into the ground" seems contrary to that.

Excellent point, Pakuni. Embarrassed that I didn't make it myself.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2017, 01:16:11 PM »
Want to be happier? Subscribe to "More than I need and all that I want". Envy of others and overvaluations of self are common barriers to fulfillment. Be grateful. You are fortunate enough to live in a country where you can choose any path - some provide more monetary compensation, others provide rewards beyond dollars. If you're unhappy with your choice make a new one. "Less than I should" shouldn't (and needn't) apply.

I am very happy with life and my profession. I can be that and also recognize that I am very good at my job but work in a field with very rigid pay scales and for a university that doesn't believe in merit raises.

Though I think your "more than I need and all that I want" mindset would work great for some scoopers when it comes to our basketball program!  ;D
TAMU

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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2017, 01:46:46 PM »
Want to be happier? Subscribe to "More than I need and all that I want". Envy of others and overvaluations of self are common barriers to fulfillment. Be grateful. You are fortunate enough to live in a country where you can choose any path - some provide more monetary compensation, others provide rewards beyond dollars. If you're unhappy with your choice make a new one. "Less than I should" shouldn't (and needn't) apply.

My long-stated financial goal is to have, simply, "more than enough."

Despite suffering through a little bit of adversity (as many folks do), I am happy to say my wife and I are easily on track to reach that goal.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 mill
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2017, 01:57:10 PM »
While you should damn well know better than to drink anything while perusing the Superbar, what kind of tea?

Lord Bergamont Earl Grey
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mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2017, 02:04:22 PM »
The whole salary thing comes down to what you want out of life. I could definitely step much higher in an organization and probably double my already good salary. However with that comes a lot of things I don't want (significantly more travel, having to hobnob with executives, high stress levels with less control, etc). I want to spend time with my family, not be a grouch when I come home and be home at reasonable hours, socialize with people I like not people I have to, have a schedule that allows my wife to work, etc. My current job or something similar allows all that so its plenty good enough for me. I'll change jobs from time to time to get some salary bumps but I don't see any serious moves up the ladder in the near future just cause life is short and I work to live not the other way around.

I've seen the CEOs job, I'm quite confident I could do it but quite frankly I don't want it.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2017, 02:19:49 PM »
Ummm, no, they don't.
The board of directors has a fiduciary responsibility to act in the corporation's and shareholders' best interests.
Running the company into the ground" seems contrary to that.

I stated that poorly.

What I meant to say was that as long as they aren't breaking any laws, it is no one else's business but the shareholders how they choose to run their company in terms of compensating their employees.
Have some patience, FFS.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2017, 02:20:40 PM »


Though I think your "more than I need and all that I want" mindset would work great for some scoopers when it comes to our basketball program!  ;D

Good point, TAMU, but I honestly don't envy anyone - even Duke fans. But since one of my true passions is MU bball I'd like for us to excel.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2017, 02:31:43 PM »
My long-stated financial goal is to have, simply, "more than enough."

Despite suffering through a little bit of adversity (as many folks do), I am happy to say my wife and I are easily on track to reach that goal.

Good for you, Mike, though "enough" is a relative term. Both of my sons have spent time in Thailand (one lived there) and tell me that, by our standards, most folks there have very little - but are the happiest group/culture they've ever encountered.

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2017, 03:10:27 PM »
Good for you, Mike, though "enough" is a relative term. Both of my sons have spent time in Thailand (one lived there) and tell me that, by our standards, most folks there have very little - but are the happiest group/culture they've ever encountered.

I also noticed that when I traveled a lot to third world countries, the people, in general, were happier than people here.

forgetful

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2017, 04:53:06 PM »
https://www.wsj.com/articles/aetnas-outgoing-ceo-set-to-reap-about-500-million-if-cvs-deal-closes-1512480623

Up to $500M possible exit pay for Aetna's CEO for leading an underperforming company to the point that it is attractive to purchase by another entity. 

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2017, 09:56:48 PM »
Good for you, Mike, though "enough" is a relative term. Both of my sons have spent time in Thailand (one lived there) and tell me that, by our standards, most folks there have very little - but are the happiest group/culture they've ever encountered.

Thanks, Lenny. I think I know what enough is for us. We do not have an appetite for mansions, expensive cars, yachts, round-the-world trips, etc. We just like to enjoy living financially independent lives, free from money stress, surrounded by our family and friends. It works for us!
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MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2017, 10:03:44 PM »
I've seen the CEOs job, I'm quite confident I could do it but quite frankly I don't want it.

Having had some great Scoopversations with you over the years, I am quite confident you could do it, too.

I know the value of having a good CEO, but I also think there is some unnecessary mysticism about it. CEOs aren't born. They didn't go to some secret CEO school or join some CEO society. They are just people who have taken the time and put in the hours to get good at their jobs and climb the company ladder.

They aren't "special" the way a great athlete or musician is special. Springsteen or LeBron could learn to be great CEOs, but no matter how hard they try Gates can't lead the E-Street Band and Cuban can't make championship-saving blocked shots.

Some folks who definitely could do it choose not to for the exact reasons you state. Some people are content to have great jobs, great families and relatively stress-free lives. But the idea that those people lack some super-special CEO IQ is ridiculous.

If I ever start a multibillion-dollar corporation, mu03, I'm coming after you to be my CEO!
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Eldon

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2017, 07:20:13 AM »
Having had some great Scoopversations with you over the years, I am quite confident you could do it, too.

I know the value of having a good CEO, but I also think there is some unnecessary mysticism about it. CEOs aren't born. They didn't go to some secret CEO school or join some CEO society. They are just people who have taken the time and put in the hours to get good at their jobs and climb the company ladder.

They aren't "special" the way a great athlete or musician is special. Springsteen or LeBron could learn to be great CEOs, but no matter how hard they try Gates can't lead the E-Street Band and Cuban can't make championship-saving blocked shots.

Some folks who definitely could do it choose not to for the exact reasons you state. Some people are content to have great jobs, great families and relatively stress-free lives. But the idea that those people lack some super-special CEO IQ is ridiculous.

If I ever start a multibillion-dollar corporation, mu03, I'm coming after you to be my CEO!

Well, idk...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-small-business/wp/2016/09/16/gene-marks-21-percent-of-ceos-are-psychopaths-only-21-percent/?utm_term=.21ec95a71a0c


MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2017, 08:17:05 AM »
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mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2017, 11:02:16 AM »
Having had some great Scoopversations with you over the years, I am quite confident you could do it, too.

I know the value of having a good CEO, but I also think there is some unnecessary mysticism about it. CEOs aren't born. They didn't go to some secret CEO school or join some CEO society. They are just people who have taken the time and put in the hours to get good at their jobs and climb the company ladder.

They aren't "special" the way a great athlete or musician is special. Springsteen or LeBron could learn to be great CEOs, but no matter how hard they try Gates can't lead the E-Street Band and Cuban can't make championship-saving blocked shots.

Some folks who definitely could do it choose not to for the exact reasons you state. Some people are content to have great jobs, great families and relatively stress-free lives. But the idea that those people lack some super-special CEO IQ is ridiculous.

If I ever start a multibillion-dollar corporation, mu03, I'm coming after you to be my CEO!

Yeah, the nature vs nurture thing is interesting when it comes to executive leadership and then when you compare that to sports it gets even more interesting. I think you are born with both a mental and physical "platform" upon which you build your capabilities and those are shaped by your experiences but don't really exceed your "platform". Using this context, I think the sports world is dependent on a strong mental and physical platform(to be great) but a high value physical platform is a must and much rarer than a mental platform. Whereas being a successful executive only requires the mental platform. Put another way, I think a lot more "smart" people are born than "athletes" are. However, in most cases you have to build on the platforms you have through experiences and exposure for you to achieve high levels of success. So while I think more people are born with a strong mental platform, the physical platform is "easier" to build on or at least to access meaning if you have a strong physical platform your much more likely to use that successfully. To be an executive you need exposure to education, leadership, socializing, etc...which isn't uniformly available and when you combine that with need for a high motor/drive there are a lot fewer CEO types than the numbers of strong mental platforms would indicate.

And somewhere in there is the social component, things like a disproportionate number of CEOs are 6 feet or taller...that's a societal thing, not a that guy is smarter than everything.

I get what you are saying about the mysticism of the CEO and this is where I do think some of the millennial mentality is right or at least going in the right direction. The making of organizations and groups more peer based and less hierarchical is critical to getting more agile in the workplace and increasing productivity while reducing the risk in making bad decisions.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

MU82

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2017, 11:28:10 AM »
Yeah, the nature vs nurture thing is interesting when it comes to executive leadership and then when you compare that to sports it gets even more interesting. I think you are born with both a mental and physical "platform" upon which you build your capabilities and those are shaped by your experiences but don't really exceed your "platform". Using this context, I think the sports world is dependent on a strong mental and physical platform(to be great) but a high value physical platform is a must and much rarer than a mental platform. Whereas being a successful executive only requires the mental platform. Put another way, I think a lot more "smart" people are born than "athletes" are. However, in most cases you have to build on the platforms you have through experiences and exposure for you to achieve high levels of success. So while I think more people are born with a strong mental platform, the physical platform is "easier" to build on or at least to access meaning if you have a strong physical platform your much more likely to use that successfully. To be an executive you need exposure to education, leadership, socializing, etc...which isn't uniformly available and when you combine that with need for a high motor/drive there are a lot fewer CEO types than the numbers of strong mental platforms would indicate.

And somewhere in there is the social component, things like a disproportionate number of CEOs are 6 feet or taller...that's a societal thing, not a that guy is smarter than everything.

I get what you are saying about the mysticism of the CEO and this is where I do think some of the millennial mentality is right or at least going in the right direction. The making of organizations and groups more peer based and less hierarchical is critical to getting more agile in the workplace and increasing productivity while reducing the risk in making bad decisions.

Interesting take. I also think a lot more smart people are born. There have been numerous studies - and real-life occurrences - demonstrating that how a person is raised from birth to adulthood has a ton to do with achievement.

Plus, that's what Trading Places showed - case closed!
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warriorchick

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2017, 11:47:30 AM »
Yeah, the nature vs nurture thing is interesting when it comes to executive leadership and then when you compare that to sports it gets even more interesting. I think you are born with both a mental and physical "platform" upon which you build your capabilities and those are shaped by your experiences but don't really exceed your "platform". Using this context, I think the sports world is dependent on a strong mental and physical platform(to be great) but a high value physical platform is a must and much rarer than a mental platform. Whereas being a successful executive only requires the mental platform. Put another way, I think a lot more "smart" people are born than "athletes" are. However, in most cases you have to build on the platforms you have through experiences and exposure for you to achieve high levels of success. So while I think more people are born with a strong mental platform, the physical platform is "easier" to build on or at least to access meaning if you have a strong physical platform your much more likely to use that successfully. To be an executive you need exposure to education, leadership, socializing, etc...which isn't uniformly available and when you combine that with need for a high motor/drive there are a lot fewer CEO types than the numbers of strong mental platforms would indicate.

And somewhere in there is the social component, things like a disproportionate number of CEOs are 6 feet or taller...that's a societal thing, not a that guy is smarter than everything.

I get what you are saying about the mysticism of the CEO and this is where I do think some of the millennial mentality is right or at least going in the right direction. The making of organizations and groups more peer based and less hierarchical is critical to getting more agile in the workplace and increasing productivity while reducing the risk in making bad decisions.

You aren't really addressing the fact that a lot of what makes a successful CEO has nothing to do with how smart he or she is.  Some people are natural leaders.  They are the ones who suggest what game to play on the kindergarten playground and everyone ends up agreeing with them.  In most instances, you have to be able to sell, whether it's a product or an idea.  If you have the personality that makes people like you and want to please you, that helps as well.

I have said it before.  I have friends from Marquette who weren't the sharpest knives in the classroom that are running some pretty significant companies.  How those drunk numbskulls managed to accomplish that is beyond me, but I can tell you it wasn't because of their high IQ.
Have some patience, FFS.

cheebs09

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2017, 11:55:48 AM »

I have said it before.  I have friends from Marquette who weren't the sharpest knives in the classroom that are running some pretty significant companies.  How those drunk numbskulls managed to accomplish that is beyond me, but I can tell you it wasn't because of their high IQ.

Pretty tough review of jsglow here.

mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2017, 12:01:28 PM »
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

mu03eng

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Re: Nonprofit hospital CEO gets 16% raise to $3.4 million
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2017, 12:04:37 PM »
You aren't really addressing the fact that a lot of what makes a successful CEO has nothing to do with how smart he or she is.  Some people are natural leaders.  They are the ones who suggest what game to play on the kindergarten playground and everyone ends up agreeing with them.  In most instances, you have to be able to sell, whether it's a product or an idea.  If you have the personality that makes people like you and want to please you, that helps as well.

I have said it before.  I have friends from Marquette who weren't the sharpest knives in the classroom that are running some pretty significant companies.  How those drunk numbskulls managed to accomplish that is beyond me, but I can tell you it wasn't because of their high IQ.

I guess I didn't mean literal IQ when I said smart. Social intelligence is a critical component to leadership and certainly one of the main drivers of a successful CEO. In fact, I generally think the highest IQ folks would make some of the worst CEOs.
"A Plan? Oh man, I hate plans. That means were gonna have to do stuff. Can't we just have a strategy......or a mission statement."

 

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