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Author Topic: Skipping bowl game season begins  (Read 7227 times)

Pakuni

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Skipping bowl game season begins
« on: November 27, 2017, 02:42:43 PM »
This obviously didn't hurt the draft stock of McCaffery and Fournette, so expect to see more players skipping their team's (meaningless) bowl games this year.

https://sports.yahoo.com/texas-left-tackle-connor-williams-203709280.html

Last year began a trend of NFL draft prospects skipping their bowl games. This year it continues.
Texas left tackle Connor Williams, a junior with a year of NCAA eligibility remaining, announced today that he will enter the 2018 NFL draft and will not play in Texas’s bowl game.
“My family and I have decided it is my best interest to forgo the bowl game and my senior season to begin preparing for my professional football career,” Williams said. “One of the reasons I worked so hard to come back from my injury was to help the team reach its goal of playing in a bowl game, and I’m proud we were able to accomplish that. I will continue to support my teammates in their efforts to finish the season strong.”

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 10:26:04 PM »
I highly endorse this. Stay healthy, use college just as college used you, get rich.

If it's the beginning of the end of bowl games (which it probably isn't), all the better!

All those who thought McCaffrey and Fournette would be punished couldn't have been more wrong. Meanwhile, the Michigan TE got hurt in his bowl game and went several rounds later, costing him serious scratch.

Except for the playoff games, bowl games are for suckers! I won't watch one second of a single one of them.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2017, 09:22:10 AM »
Another reason why college football is stupid. Don't understand the appeal
TAMU

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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 11:36:07 AM »
Another reason why college football is stupid. Don't understand the appeal
I'm speechless after that, as I view it the greatest thing in the world!!  8-)
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GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 12:26:04 PM »
I'm speechless after that, as I view it the greatest thing in the world!!  8-)


Ditto.  I will watch a regular season college football game before I watch any other regular season game of any sort.  (Unless I have a rooting interest in another game.)

jficke13

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 12:31:14 PM »
4 hours of minor league football stretched out by the incomprehensible decision to stop the clock for almost any reason, no thank you.

Good on everyone skipping their bowl games if they project as a 1st or 2nd rounder. The upside of a dominating performance in an exhibition game doesn't cover the downside of injury before the draft.

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 05:32:47 PM »
4 hours of minor league football stretched out by the incomprehensible decision to stop the clock for almost any reason, no thank you.

Good on everyone skipping their bowl games if they project as a 1st or 2nd rounder. The upside of a dominating performance in an exhibition game doesn't cover the downside of injury before the draft.

All of this.

And any coach who really "loves" his players, as they all claim to, would applaud any high draft pick's decision to skip an Xmas time exhibition game. In fact, he should encourage them to do it.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 05:35:21 PM »
I'm speechless after that, as I view it the greatest thing in the world!!  8-)

Do you really think the Beef O'Brady Bowl between two 6-6 teams that both finished in the second division of their conferences is "the greatest thing in the world"?

You're not a very discerning sports consumer, eh?
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Mr. Nielsen

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 06:32:38 PM »
Do you really think the Beef O'Brady Bowl between two 6-6 teams that both finished in the second division of their conferences is "the greatest thing in the world"?

You're not a very discerning sports consumer, eh?
Come on, I'm not talking about the Beef O'Brady Bowl. I'm talking Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton, Peach, Orange, Citrus, Outback, Holiday, Sun Bowl for starters. I will be on my college hoops as well. I have multiple TV's in my man cave!  ;)
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Mr. Nielsen

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 06:34:01 PM »
4 hours of minor league football stretched out by the incomprehensible decision to stop the clock for almost any reason, no thank you.


Minor league football? By that you must not like college hoops by that statement.
If we are all thinking alike, we're not thinking at all. It's OK to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable.
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Jay Bee

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2017, 07:42:35 PM »
Skip the Bowl Game, pull their scholarship. Simple as that.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2017, 07:50:56 PM »
Skip the Bowl Game, pull their scholarship. Simple as that.

Won't happen.  Coaches won't do it.  The PR sh*tshow would be a disaster.  Probably wouldn't survive the lawsuit anyway.

naginiF

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 07:54:25 PM »
Minor league football? By that you must not like college hoops by that statement.
I think the difference is that CBB is 30(ish) game season where one or two losses don't ruin your season (unless you are a Marquette fan then an OT win against the wrong opponent spells DOME) and there is a tournament where, except for a 16 over a 1, we routinely see anything happen.  Versus football where 95% of the teams have no chance of any glory at all.....i'm not talking title, i'm thinking more of an opportunity to compete at an elite level or knock off a top 15 program.

I'm surrounded by primarily Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri and ND alumni.  I get the the ND/Nebraska fans are holding on to history, have a ton of tradition built around the games, and have had some flashes of success (insert Heisy's "you don't get ND football" rant here) but I have yet to get anyone from KU or Mizzou to explain why they care about the games or the outcome. 

Pakuni

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 07:55:23 PM »
Skip the Bowl Game, pull their scholarship. Simple as that.

Pull the scholarships of guys already leaving school?
That'll learn 'em.

naginiF

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 07:57:58 PM »
Pull the scholarship of guys already leaving school?
That'll learn 'em.
Beat me to it.  We totally should've pulled Henry E's scholly after his last MU game.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 08:02:35 PM »
(unless you are a Marquette fan then an OT win against the wrong opponent spells DOME)

If a near loss to a cupcake spells DOME to an MU fan would it spell AUDITORIUM to a Harvard grad?

naginiF

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 08:06:37 PM »
If a near loss to a cupcake spells DOME to an MU fan would it spell AUDITORIUM to a Harvard grad?

*GD Jesuit education!*

Edit:  Did i just frantically check my other recent posts?  Yes.  Am i sure they are grammatically correct? No  :(
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:10:23 PM by naginiF »

Tugg Speedman

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 08:09:03 PM »
Skip the Bowl Game, pull their scholarship. Simple as that.

You cannot as scholarships are for the full year.  So the "pulling" begins after the school year is over.

Besides anyone that sits for the bowl game probably leaves school that day to go to Florida or Arizona to start training for their pro-day and the combine.  So they already left.

(Crowder left Milwaukee the day after the E8 loss to start training for the NBA combine)


GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 08:17:06 PM »
You cannot as scholarships are for the full year.  So the "pulling" begins after the school year is over.

Besides anyone that sits for the bowl game probably leaves school that day to go to Florida or Arizona to start training for their pro-day and the combine.  So they already left.

(Crowder left Milwaukee the day after the E8 loss to start training for the NBA combine)


NCAA bylaws state that if a player does not complete the season, they can be forced to pay back the scholarship.  But in this case, the school would have to sue for payment.  And they would killed for it.  Will not happen.

jficke13

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 09:10:51 PM »
Minor league football? By that you must not like college hoops by that statement.

Nope. I find the level of competition for most major conference D1 college hoops games to be far greater than *most* NBA regular season games. If I want 3.5 quarters of coasting, motion, and 3 point shots, I'll tune into a December - March NBA game. I'm amazed at the level of athleticism and talent that even the last man on the bench has in the NBA... but I don't find the product as engaging.

Of course, there's always the exception that proves the rule where an epic NBA game makes me look like a fool, but that applies to minor league football too.

DegenerateDish

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 09:24:41 PM »
I would be fine with Connor Williams in a Bears uniform next year. I think he'll be a stud LT.

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2017, 09:40:47 PM »
Come on, I'm not talking about the Beef O'Brady Bowl. I'm talking Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton, Peach, Orange, Citrus, Outback, Holiday, Sun Bowl for starters. I will be on my college hoops as well. I have multiple TV's in my man cave!  ;)

Well, a couple of those bowls do matter, I'll give you that. The rest are 4-hour exhibitions.
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MarquetteDano

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 10:05:30 PM »
I understand why these student athletes do it however if I was a GM I would wonder what kind of team player I was drafting.  Maybe they take a "game off" near the end of the season knowing they are going to be a free agent the next season.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2017, 07:52:25 AM »
You cannot as scholarships are for the full year.  So the "pulling" begins after the school year is over.

Besides anyone that sits for the bowl game probably leaves school that day to go to Florida or Arizona to start training for their pro-day and the combine.  So they already left.

(Crowder left Milwaukee the day after the E8 loss to start training for the NBA combine)

Crowder played in the elite 8? New to me
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MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2017, 08:01:35 AM »
I understand why these student athletes do it however if I was a GM I would wonder what kind of team player I was drafting.  Maybe they take a "game off" near the end of the season knowing they are going to be a free agent the next season.

This was a sentiment many expressed last year after Fournette and McCaffrey decided to skip postseason exhibition games. However, there is a lot of time between Jan. 1 and the draft, and they spent months training hard, had great workout for GMs, and showed they were serious about being pros. Each was drafted in the top 10, and each has helped a likely playoff team this season.

I seriously doubt any smart GM will have the concerns you mention - as long as the players follow up their college careers by showing NFL teams how serious they are about being NFL players.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GooooMarquette

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2017, 08:04:19 AM »
Come on, I'm not talking about the Beef O'Brady Bowl. I'm talking Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, Cotton, Peach, Orange, Citrus, Outback, Holiday, Sun Bowl for starters. I will be on my college hoops as well. I have multiple TV's in my man cave!  ;)

Which is why they should cut the bowls to a reasonable number and add them to the playoff system...so they really mean something, like the NCAA tournament.  Maybe go from 4 teams to 8 or 16.

If they still want other games sponsored by Beef O'Brady (is that a real thing?), call them exhibition games...which is what they really are.

Pakuni

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 08:11:59 AM »
Which is why they should cut the bowls to a reasonable number and add them to the playoff system...so they really mean something, like the NCAA tournament.  Maybe go from 4 teams to 8 or 16.

If they still want other games sponsored by Beef O'Brady (is that a real thing?), call them exhibition games...which is what they really are.

The problem with expanding the playoff, especially to 16, is you're asking teams to shorten their seasons, giving up huge revenues from home games and ending non-conference matchups, or you're extending the season another 2+ weeks, essentially asking 18- to 20-year-old kids (on the better teams) to play an NFL schedule.

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 08:23:13 AM »
The problem with expanding the playoff, especially to 16, is you're asking teams to shorten their seasons, giving up huge revenues from home games and ending non-conference matchups, or you're extending the season another 2+ weeks, essentially asking 18- to 20-year-old kids (on the better teams) to play an NFL schedule.

I also have seen travel mentioned as a potential problem. If you have a 16-team playoff, you're asking fans of the eventual champion to travel to 4 bowl games.

I happen to think this is not a real problem, though. Many fans would do it, just as some do for the various NCAA tournament rounds. Most stadiums would just as likely be as full as they are now for meaningless bowls. And TV drives it all, anyway - and one would think ratings would be higher if the games actually matter.

So yes, length of season/number of games probably is the main factor. Many argue that in the current system, college championship games are de facto national quarterfinals - and that's probably true.

Eventually, the lesser bowls will either go away because their value keeps getting more diminished, or they will just be recognized as what they always have been - mindless, meaningless exhibitions that reward players and some fans with a little trip after a "fine" 6-6 season.

It really doesn't bother me that the Beef O'Brady Bowl exists; I'm simply not ever going to watch one second of it. And even though hundreds of millions will join me in not watching one second of it, it still probably get better ratings than anything else they could air in the time slot. Which is a big reason why they exist and ain't going anywhere.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 08:29:12 AM »
Which is why they should cut the bowls to a reasonable number and add them to the playoff system...so they really mean something, like the NCAA tournament.  Maybe go from 4 teams to 8 or 16.

If they still want other games sponsored by Beef O'Brady (is that a real thing?), call them exhibition games...which is what they really are.


As long as the marketplace for the bowls exist, they will continue.  And they have always been exhibitions except for now the semifinals and finals.

If the playoffs expand, it will be to eight teams and that's about it.  But it will be hard to do that and keep the bowls, which are a nice money maker for the conferences - especially the Power 5.

tower912

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2017, 08:30:00 AM »
How many teams in the D2 playoffs?
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GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 08:33:40 AM »
How many teams in the D2 playoffs?


Many.  D3 has 32.  But everything is at home sites and crowds are not great.  And the TV money behind the bowl system is going to keep them in business for awhile. 

And also there is timing.  D3 is in their Final 8 this weekend.  The earliest a larger tournament could start in D1 is December 9. 

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 08:40:15 AM »
This was a sentiment many expressed last year after Fournette and McCaffrey decided to skip postseason exhibition games. However, there is a lot of time between Jan. 1 and the draft, and they spent months training hard, had great workout for GMs, and showed they were serious about being pros. Each was drafted in the top 10, and each has helped a likely playoff team this season.

I seriously doubt any smart GM will have the concerns you mention - as long as the players follow up their college careers by showing NFL teams how serious they are about being NFL players.


Exactly.  And GMs know exactly why players are doing this. 

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 08:40:55 AM »
So JB, could Marquette go after Haanif's scholarship since he didn't finish the semester?

If they can, should they?

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2017, 09:44:53 AM »
Skip the Bowl Game, pull their scholarship. Simple as that.

I'm way out of the CFB loop, but aren't the players who skip the bowl games presumably declaring for the draft anyway? If so, how would pulling their scholarship affect them?

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2017, 10:40:37 AM »
I'm way out of the CFB loop, but aren't the players who skip the bowl games presumably declaring for the draft anyway? If so, how would pulling their scholarship affect them?


They can actually go back and charge them for fall semester if they don't complete the season.  No one would ever do that.  It would be a PR nightmare.

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2017, 11:39:26 AM »

They can actually go back and charge them for fall semester if they don't complete the season.  No one would ever do that.  It would be a PR nightmare.

Interesting!

Yeah that would be a long-term recruiting disaster. Not worth it.

MarquetteDano

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 05:11:18 PM »

Exactly.  And GMs know exactly why players are doing this.

Maybe.  But the list of clowns GM's have drafted over the years would beat any sport.  They have clearly proven they are not psychoanalytic experts.

I guess they figure when it is all said and done you have to balance personality and team orientation with football skills and take some risks.

Jockey

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 05:28:41 PM »
Maybe.  But the list of clowns GM's have drafted over the years would beat any sport.  They have clearly proven they are not psychoanalytic experts.



I don't think this is true.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 05:51:59 PM »
The problem with expanding the playoff, especially to 16, is you're asking teams to shorten their seasons, giving up huge revenues from home games and ending non-conference matchups, or you're extending the season another 2+ weeks, essentially asking 18- to 20-year-old kids (on the better teams) to play an NFL schedule.

They've been extending the season for years anyhow (just like in hoops).  Using Bucky as an example:  In 1970, they played 10 games before bowl season.  In 1990, they played 11.  In 2010, they played 12.  And this year, they'll play 13 before the playoffs start. 

Plus note, with 13 games before the playoffs:  8 of the playoff teams would get to 14 games (the current max for most bowl teams), another 4 would get to 15 (the current max for championship game teams), 2 would get to 16, and the final 2 would get to 17.  So it isn't as though you're asking lots of teams to play an NFL schedule.  You're only asking the teams where most players are en route to the NFL anyway....
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 05:54:21 PM by GooooMarquette »

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 10:56:17 PM »

I don't think this is true.

I have trouble believing that there are a higher percentage of first-round busts in the NFL than in MLB.

In MLB, it seems that almost as many 22nd-rounders make it as first-rounders. Probably isn't the case, but it seems like it.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MarquetteDano

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2017, 11:07:50 PM »
I have trouble believing that there are a higher percentage of first-round busts in the NFL than in MLB.

In MLB, it seems that almost as many 22nd-rounders make it as first-rounders. Probably isn't the case, but it seems like it.

Sorry.  Clowns = bad character people.  I was saying NFL GM's seem to weigh character very low on their determination of a draft pick so what does it matter if people are not team players (what I was talking about in earlier post).  Team players are the least of GM's problems in some cases.

MU82

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2017, 11:11:56 PM »
Sorry.  Clowns = bad character people.  I was saying NFL GM's seem to weigh character very low on their determination of a draft pick so what does it matter if people are not team players (what I was talking about in earlier post).  Team players are the least of GM's problems in some cases.

Ah.

I seriously don't think skipping an exhibition game is a sign of poor character in any way.

I can't speak for others, but McCaffrey seems like a great teammate. Works hard. Works extra. Blocks for others. Always gives others credit for his success. Glad he's a Panther.

“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

muwarrior69

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 03:36:53 PM »
..and I thought Pakuni was skipping Bowl games on TV.

Pakuni

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2017, 04:39:58 PM »
..and I thought Pakuni was skipping Bowl games on TV.

No chance. I'm a sucker for this nonsense.

Mutaman

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2017, 09:40:24 PM »
I have trouble believing that there are a higher percentage of first-round busts in the NFL than in MLB.

In MLB, it seems that almost as many 22nd-rounders make it as first-rounders. Probably isn't the case, but it seems like it.

NFL HOFers- high draft picks:
http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/hall-of-famers-by-draft-year/

Baseball HOFers -high draft picks
https://baseballhall.org/discover/caught-in-the-draft



Jockey

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2017, 10:25:10 PM »
Sorry.  Clowns = bad character people.  I was saying NFL GM's seem to weigh character very low on their determination of a draft pick so what does it matter if people are not team players (what I was talking about in earlier post).  Team players are the least of GM's problems in some cases.

I don't think you are correct. Teams do a vast array of psychological testing on potential draftees. It is a big part of the evaluation process.

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2017, 08:17:45 AM »
It seems to me that most first round "busts" in the NFL are due to injury.  Most turn out to be solid starters, if not All-Pros. 

MarquetteDano

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2017, 10:36:42 AM »
I don't think you are correct. Teams do a vast array of psychological testing on potential draftees. It is a big part of the evaluation process.

I am sure it is.  And my guess is a lot of it is ignored otherwise you would not have murderers,  rapists,  spouse abusers,  etc.. drafted so often in the early rounds.

GGGG

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2017, 10:40:27 AM »
I am sure it is.  And my guess is a lot of it is ignored otherwise you would not have murderers,  rapists,  spouse abusers,  etc.. drafted so often in the early rounds.


Out of curiosity, how many "murderers and rapists" have been drafted in early rounds?  Physical abuse I understand, but it's not like its a commonplace occurrence. 

Jockey

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MarquetteDano

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Re: Skipping bowl game season begins
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2017, 11:16:40 AM »

Out of curiosity, how many "murderers and rapists" have been drafted in early rounds?  Physical abuse I understand, but it's not like its a commonplace occurrence.

Sums up my thoughts....

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-nfl-sexual-assault-violence-20170502-story.html

 

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