The Pot Calling The Kettle Black

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

FWIW, I've always been told that Cal is one of the few that doesn't break the rule$. But he does bend them until they are about ready to snap.

[burger]

Don't be naive......

10 of the Top 30 players in the last recruiting class.....

UK is cheating.....

The question is the apparatus.....Probably a very well oiled organization.....Especially after the Chicago Tribune / Anthony Davis debacle.....

Shoot....All the FBI has to do is subpoena those files from the Tribune.....(probably protected by freedom of the press)....Remind you....Tribune said $250k to Davis in various ways.....

What is the statute of limitations on Fed wire and mail fraud.....Got to be 10 years.....(Yes Kentucky and Illinois meet the across state lines part of that law....and if funds were transferred.....done deal)

Catching the little bastard is harder said that done.....

KU is professional about it.....They probably have friends of the program taking care of these matters and only reporting to coaches and assistant coaches on a "from time to time basis" and given "direction of funding importance" etc....etc....

[Hards Alumni]

Do we honestly know when he started juicing?  We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.

Most players throughout the history of baseball are not 100% clean.  Tons of uppers got used... cocaine, greenies, etc.

[Charlotte Warrior]

This is correct for anything Cal did to get to the top, once one gets there and has his track record with one and dones is all he needs to show these kids.   Contend for titles, one n dones and incredible facilities.  No need to cheat.  Its like usain bolt decding to take steroids.

Usain Bolt - Clean.... that's funny now.   

[We R Final Four]

Don't be naive......

10 of the Top 30 players in the last recruiting class.....

KU is cheating.....

The question is the apparatus.....Probably a very well oiled organization.....Especially after the Chicago Tribune / Anthony Davis debacle.....

Shoot....All the FBI has to do is subpoena those files from the Tribune.....(probably protected by freedom of the press)....Remind you....Tribune said $250k to Davis in various ways.....

What is the statute of limitations on Fed wire and mail fraud.....Got to be 10 years.....(Yes Kentucky and Illinois meet the across state lines part of that law....and if funds were transferred.....done deal)

Catching the little bastard is harder said that done.....

KU is professional about it.....They probably have friends of the program taking care of these matters and only reporting to coaches and assistant coaches on a "from time to time basis" and given "direction of funding importance" etc....etc....

Anthony Davis played bball at UK, not KU.

[LAZER]

Do we honestly know when he started juicing?  We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.

He was probably juicing through the 90's with the rest of them.

[MU82]

Do we honestly know when he started juicing?  We know he started taking some crazy designer steroids in the late 90's, but that doesn't mean he wasn't using other stuff before then.

I believe that the book Game of Shadows, which most consider the ultimate reporting on the subject, said his juicing began between the 1998 and 1999 seasons. Didn't read the book, just excerpts, and read them long ago. So don't hold me to it.

[Hards Alumni]

Usain Bolt - Clean.... that's funny now.

No basis for this.  Never accused of PEDs.

[Charlotte Warrior]

No basis for this.  Never accused of PEDs.

So we can insinuate Self cheats ( next domino to fall) but not Bolt?   Check out the recent history of the Jamaican track team, his training partners, or his old coach, Angel   "memo" Heredia.    Everyone thought Armstrong was clean " no way he takes roids because he had cancer" til he wasn't.   No way Bolt has always been clean - research his history and who he was connected with.   He's being insulated by track and field right now because he's too important to them to fail. 

https://medium.com/@tomnew/usain-bolt-lance-armstrong-and-the-duck-test-303b7b891e7e

[DienerTime34]

Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?

[Herman Cain]

I think the best scenario to come out of all of this would be for Harvey Weinstein and Rick Pitino bunking up together at Club Fed.

[wadesworld]

Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?

Right?  Lol.

[The Lens]

Cal has had TWO Final 4s vacated. Why are we so sure he's clean again?

Marcus Camby (accepted gifts from agents) has repeatedly taken the fall for UMASS, assumed 100% of the blame, paid back the school the $151,000 they lost and consistently said Cal had no idea.  Why would he do that if Cal orchestrated it?

Memphis I will grant you is a little murkier.

[Lennys Tap]

...right.  That's the exact argument you tried to argue against.  Barry Bonds didn't need to cheat, but people at the top cheat to ensure they stay at the top.  Barry was already at the top.

But he wasn't "at the top". McGwire and Sosa had temporarily stolen his thunder. And (much more importantly) from a career standpoint he was not destined to join Ruth, Williams, Mays and Aaron on baseball's Mt. Rushmore - until suddenly between the ages of 35 and 39 he became the best hitter in history and eclipsed all of them. He most definitely needed to cheat to do that.

[wadesworld]

But he wasn't "at the top". McGwire and Sosa had temporarily stolen his thunder. And (much more importantly) from a career standpoint he was not destined to join Ruth, Williams, Mays and Aaron on baseball's Mt. Rushmore - until suddenly between the ages of 35 and 39 he became the best hitter in history and eclipsed all of them. He most definitely needed to cheat to do that.

He would've gone down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game before his head size grew 10 fold.  He was absolutely at the top, and he needed to cheat to stay at the top because McGuire and (cover your ears, BMG, I know you hate hearing about Cubbies cheating) Sosa caught up to him with the use of steroids.  So, as was stated, Bonds was at the top and cheated to stay there.

[rocket surgeon]

  love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun.  they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans.  at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

  love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun.  they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans.  at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team

I mean, besides the whole roids thing he does kinda seem like a d!ck of a person.

But back to Cal, I don't know if he's clean or not but I definitely don't think he's one of the dirtier coaches in the NCAA.

[forgetful]

He was probably juicing through the 90's with the rest of them.

I agree, I don't think there were many who were not juicing in the 90's.  Essentially the entire league was on something.  The question was how much, how often, and did you have access to the crazy experimental designer steroids.

[Lennys Tap]

He would've gone down as one of the greatest players to ever play the game before his head size grew 10 fold.  He was absolutely at the top.

Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.

[UNC Eagle]

Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.

All the steroids years stats are tainted. Rafael Palmeiro was another notable player who had a very good career turner great after the usual physical age for decline.

[Eldon]

Isn't Ken Griffey Jr one of the 90s greats that never juiced?

[jsglow]

Just not true. At age 35 (when normal careers were waning or ended) Bonds had 15 seasons under his belt. He was a .288 lifetime hitter with 445 HRs (29.67 per season). He had led the league in BA zero times, HRs once, SLG% 3x, OPS 5x and OPS+ 4x. A star, no doubt. A HOF, no doubt. An all time great (ala Mays, Williams or Ruth)? No way, not even all that close. After 35 (and after those really, really good designer 'roids), wow!!! From 35-39 (old man years) he bats .339 and AVERAGES 51.6 HR per year. Wins the only 2 batting titles of his career, leads the league in SLG% 4x, OPS 4x and OPS+ all 5 years. And a great career that was a little better than Duke Snider's was suddenly paralleling (or better than) Babe Ruth's. That's the top, and without the steroids he wouldn't have been close to there.

That's really pretty amazing.

[Herman Cain]

Isn't Ken Griffey Jr one of the 90s greats that never juiced?

Yes that is correct . That is why he had the normal ordinary skills decline that all non juiced stars have and started to get fat etc.

[MU82]

That's really pretty amazing.

It is.

Also amazing: McGwire hit 245 of his 583 career HRs - 42% - during the 4-season stretch (1996-99) when he admittedly juiced like nobody's business.

[Marcus92]

  love it when cub fans boooo ryan braun.  they either have really really bad memories, or it's just cub fans being...umm...cub fans.  at least ryans head didn't need a new helmet, 8 sizes larger than when he joined the team

My favorite is Sosa's suspension for using a corked bat. Exposed during a 2003 game after a broken bat. "What can you say?" manager Dusty Baker said later. "Busted." Even funnier is that research suggests there is no advantage to corking a bat to improve home run power.