One and Done or 4 Year Stud?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Someone posed a question to me today that I thought was valid. We know we are all in on Quentin Grimes. It also seems like we are at least kicking the tires on Courtney Ramey. Grimes projects as a one and done that could possibly propel us into a second weekend or even final four appearance. Ramey is no slouch himself, a top 40 player but is likely to be a four year player who could be a solid backup or even starter his first season before developing into a multi-year starter....possibly being even more talented as a junior/senior than Grimes would be as a freshman.

Which player does Marquette need more right now?

Now obviously we aren't going to stop recruiting Grimes and will take him if he commits. But in a theoretical world world where you were guaranteed one or the other, which would you take for Marquette?

[Marcus92]

Take the best player. There are never any guarantees for the future. The player you think will be around to develop and contribute for four years could be a bust, transfer to another school or suffer an injury. Grimes, no question.

[GooooMarquette]

I generally lean toward the 4-year players, but RIGHT NOW I'd go for QG.  Barring injuries or major transfers, we could be VERY good for the one year he'd presumably be here - Hanny as a Sr., Marcus and Sam as Jrs., QG and Joey as Frosh.  If QG and Joey are as good as advertised, and we get anything out of our incoming guys when they are Sophomores, we could be looking at a big season in '18-'19.

And the Final Four is just up the road in Minneapolis....

[wadesworld]

Grimes

[Herman Cain]

Where there is smoke there is fire. Stay away from Ramey.

[DCHoopster]

Grimes

Where was Wojo sitting this weekend?  Under the basket watching Grimes at USA Basketball in Colorado.  I would say he is all in, and then some on this one.  Grimes
even stated he could play with Marcus Howard and a junior, senior ladden team, maybe juniors.  He knows he would be a good fit.  Hope the weather holds up for a
few weeks.  The new arena is impressive that is for sure.

[Jay Bee]

Just not sure the reads here are right...

[Galway Eagle]

I would take QG, I think it’d show Henry wasn’t a fluke and begin to open up the door to some other studs taking us seriously. Especially if we actually do something great with QG

[Loose Cannon]

Take the best player. There are never any guarantees for the future. The player you think will be around to develop and contribute for four years could be a bust, transfer to another school or suffer an injury. Grimes, no question.

Absolutely take the Best Player.  Hard to project 4 years out.  Remember that old saying "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans."

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just not sure the reads here are right...

Do you have them both as one and dones? Or neither?

[mu03eng]

If it's a back court one and done, I would take them over a 4 year stud....if it's a front court one and done, make me down for the 4 year stud. It's just about development cycle and what kind of meaningful impact can be had in a single year and front court players develop later/slower than back court guys.

So I'm all in on Grimes....FForGTFO

[We R Final Four]

For Wojos sake and his longevity at MU, landing QG would be huge. Out gunning blue bloods, second 5 star player in young tenure, paving the way for potentially additional 5 stars,etc.

However, for MUBB's sake, I would take four years of Sam Hauser over one year of Henry.

[CTWarrior]

To the general point, I'd prefer the 4 year guy to the one and done guys, who are generally not as good in their one year as a very good player is in his fourth.  But that is with hindsight knowledge.  I agree you go for whoever you think is the best player.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Grimes. He fits the roster perfectly.  I think it's a coin flip if he is one and done or two and done.  Marquette has a chance to be really good in that 1-2 year window, maybe even Final 4 good.

Grimes can also break the ice for out of state 5 stars. Getting the first one is always the hardest. Get Grimes and other out of state 5 stars consider MU more seriously.

That said, Courtney Ramey would be a hell of a consolation prize.  If Ramey waits until spring and Marquette has 2 transfers, maybe Wojo can get both.   

[DCHoopster]

I am finding it hard to find 1 transfer and you are talking about 2 of them?  Interesting.  It will be a tough decision on this one for sure.

[Bocephys]

For Wojos sake and his longevity at MU, landing QG would be huge. Out gunning blue bloods, second 5 star player in young tenure, paving the way for potentially additional 5 stars,etc.

However, for MUBB's sake, I would take four years of Sam Hauser over one year of Henry.

Isn't that just because Henry was the difference between an 8 win team and the 16 or so we ended up with?  If he was the difference from a 16 win team to a Sweet 16 run, we'd all feel differently about him.

Note that I completely agree with your assessment, I feel no general affinity towards Henry.  If Quentin loses in the first round of the NCAAs, I imagine he will similarly be forgotten.  I'll take the chance with Grimes all day, though.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Thing is, it doesn't work that way.  You never know how things will play out, so you take the more talented player every time.  But if Grimes isn't willing to make a decision in the next several weeks, I likely don't pass on Ramey if he wants to commit to Marquette.  It'd suck to pass on Ramey at the 1/3 chance (at best) of landing Grimes, and then he chooses Kansas or Kentucky in the spring.

[Galway Eagle]

Isn't that just because Henry was the difference between an 8 win team and the 16 or so we ended up with?  If he was the difference from a 16 win team to a Sweet 16 run, we'd all feel differently about him.

Note that I completely agree with your assessment, I feel no general affinity towards Henry.  If Quentin loses in the first round of the NCAAs, I imagine he will similarly be forgotten.  I'll take the chance with Grimes all day, though.

We had 20wins under Henry. Shouldn’t a 20win season that you associate as being about 16 tell you about his impact? If we had beaten DePaul and Belmont and at least been an NIT team I’m sure people would associate Henry with bringing MU back from the brink but as it is I’d say Howard is most likely to get that association.

[Jay Bee]

Will just say this for now ---

If QG goes to MU I will be delighted. However, I'm at least equally as pleased that Joey is coming. And I mean that from an evaluation / objective perspective.

[Bocephys]

We had 20wins under Henry. Shouldn’t a 20win season that you associate as being about 16 tell you about his impact? If we had beaten DePaul and Belmont and at least been an NIT team I’m sure people would associate Henry with bringing MU back from the brink but as it is I’d say Howard is most likely to get that association.

Good catch, I'd completely forgotten we had that many wins with Henry and obviously did no homework.  Those years will be looked on as "the lost years" and lumped together with the Buzz departure year and rebuilding.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I am finding it hard to find 1 transfer and you are talking about 2 of them?  Interesting.  It will be a tough decision on this one for sure.

At this time last year, who knew Carter and Cohen would transfer at semester?  Let it play out.

[DCHoopster]

I could see Cohen for sure last year.  Carter was a surprise.  With 2 juniors, no reason for them to leave, it gets down to Froling or Howard going pro, Anim sat out
a year, Hauser is going nowhere, then the 4 frosh.  It could be of them if they get homesick, see what happens is exactly right.  Bailey??

[wadesworld]

Respect the process.  Cross the bridge when you come to it.

[Lennys Tap]

Take  the best player, especially if you're in a position to win now.

[brewcity77]

Divorcing from names, I take the better player when you consider our situation. The consensus is that we are a top-25 and potential second weekend team with or without a one-and-done.

Landing a one-and-done turned a likely 12-15 win team in 2016 into a 20 win team with Henry. Landing that type of player on a team already expecting to play deep into March could make us a title contender.

If you are building for the future and have low expectations, go for the four-year guy. But if you're to the point of win-now, may as well try to win it all.

[Herman Cain]

Will just say this for now ---

If QG goes to MU I will be delighted. However, I'm at least equally as pleased that Joey is coming. And I mean that from an evaluation / objective perspective.

I believe many people are forgetting we have  Brendan Bailey on the way. The kid is going to be more mature and thicker when he gets here. He will have the whole summer to get back in basketball shape and get his muscle memory back.

[tower912]

My contention is that MU's 18-19 roster is currently 3-4-5 heavy and light at guard.  The caveat to that being.... unless Elliot, Cain, and Anim are all able to play guard at a Big East level.

That is why I want Grimes.

[Herman Cain]

My contention is that MU's 18-19 roster is currently 3-4-5 heavy and light at guard.  The caveat to that being.... unless Elliot, Cain, and Anim are all able to play guard at a Big East level.

That is why I want Grimes.

Elliot is a budding star. All he needs to do is get stronger. He has the mental toughness and physical skills to be a major factor in the Big East.

[Jay Bee]

My contention is that MU's 18-19 roster is currently 3-4-5 heavy and light at guard.  The caveat to that being.... unless Elliot, Cain, and Anim are all able to play guard at a Big East level.

That is why I want Grimes.

I find your thoughts above to be reasonable, although with Haani as a Sr + Sam I think we have options at the 2 if needed (not to mention Anim, Greg, perhaps Cain, BB even)

[tower912]

I find your thoughts above to be reasonable,

Phew.  I am honored.  I can sleep better tonight.

[MU82]

I remember thinking that the Illinois team that went to the championship game in 2005 was almost perfectly constructed.

For 02-03, they brought in 3 outstanding freshmen (Deron Williams, Dee Brown, James Augustine) to go with a senior who was ready to finally live up to expectations (Brian Cook) and two talented sophs (Luther Head, Roger Powell). That team won 25 games.

In 03-04, the freshmen were now sophs; Williams, who played second fiddle to Brown when they both were frosh, was emerging as a star-quality player. Head looked like he could really play. Powell was a solid player. And Jack Ingram, who transferred to Illinois to stay with Bill Self (who then left him to take the Kansas job), was a now-eligible big man. That's 6 solid to excellent players, all with experience. The Illini won 26 games under Bruce Weber, who needed time to get Self's players to buy into his system.

In 04-05, they had it all. Williams was an All-American, Head was a star, Brown and Augustine were very good, Powell was super solid and Ingram was tough. They all were juniors or seniors. Their offense was beautiful and they got after teams on D. They went 37-2, were ranked No. 1 most of the season and came within an eyelash of beating a star-filled UNC team in the title game.

Williams went pro, but after testing the waters Brown came back. He and fellow senior Augustine teamed with a couple of juniors and a few freshmen to lead Illinois to a 26-win season.

I always viewed that as an almost-ideal situation. Of course, that was before the 1-and-done craze had started because kids were going right from preps to pros. Had Self stayed or had Weber been a better recruiter, Illinois could have really built off of that.

I still like the "idea" of a team like that. Nevertheless, if I get a chance at a stud or studs who might leave after one year, I absolutely take them.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I find your thoughts above to be reasonable, although with Haani as a Sr + Sam I think we have options at the 2 if needed (not to mention Anim, Greg, perhaps Cain, BB even)

yah, Bailey is a 2G that just happens to be 6-8. Plenty of options at the 2/3 IMO.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Also similar to this Marquette team, that Illini team could shoot the heck out of the basketball. They were pretty undersized (Powell was a 6'6" PF) as well but they made it work. Not a bad comp, actually.

[GoldenDieners32]

At a worst scenario what if we don't land either QG or ramey?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

At a worst scenario what if we don't land either QG or ramey?

We go into 18-19 with a top 25 caliber team with only two role players that are seniors. Though we are one injury away from having zero PGs unless Elliott develops into that role.

[Herman Cain]

At a worst scenario what if we don't land either QG or ramey?

We have a budding star named Greg Elliot. I am not worried.

[We R Final Four]

You should have said so.