Transfer rule changes

[Benny B]

Agreed. They weren't as successful back then...but the Fieldhouse was a great environment in terms of noise and fan involvement.

Never went to the Fieldhouse for rodentball but did go to a couple WIAA state tourneys back in the late 80's.  I don't recall much about the atmosphere at the games... the atmosphere I remember most fondly was all of the adults drinking and partying at the Concourse after our HS team won state.  Needless to say, we kids had the run of the hotel that night... those games of tag and hide-and-go-seek were absolutely epic.  My childhood was all downhill from there.

[GGGG]

I grew up in Madison and went to a grand total of two Bucky games growing up.  The place did get loud.  But it was a crappy facility.

[Jay Bee]

In looking at the records, that's a pretty good example.  Before moving to the Kohl Center, the Badgers never had a 20 win season.  Their first was the first year in the KC. 

In the 19 years they have been in the KC, they have had only 3 years of less than 20 wins and none since 2005-06.

Not only is the "never had a 20 win season" false, but the ~avg # of games per season when at the FH was 24; Kohl hole days it's been 34

Way better at Kohl hole, but facts are cool

[GGGG]

Not only is the "never had a 20 win season" false, but the ~avg # of games per season when at the FH was 24; Kohl hole days it's been 34

Way better at Kohl hole, but facts are cool

Yes you correct. I didn't look previous to 1950.

[wadesworld]

I jumped out of the discussion on the transfer rule change a few pages ago and haven't kept up, so my apologies if this has been discussed here, but is allowing student athletes to be immediately eligible when transferring really a good thing academically?  In terms of athletically it might be (though a year to adjust to the new school/coach/system/etc. might not hurt, if you think of the recent grad transfers we've had it took guys like Carlino, Lockett, and Reinhardt a month + into the season to really find their role).  But with the likelihood that at least some of the transfer's credits don't transfer over to their new school, that can be a pretty big set back academically, and being a D1 college athlete it can be hard to make those up.  I know they take summer courses, but aren't you still making it pretty unlikely that the transfer graduates in 4 years?

[Spotcheck Billy]

I jumped out of the discussion on the transfer rule change a few pages ago and haven't kept up, so my apologies if this has been discussed here, but is allowing student athletes to be immediately eligible when transferring really a good thing academically?  In terms of athletically it might be (though a year to adjust to the new school/coach/system/etc. might not hurt, if you think of the recent grad transfers we've had it took guys like Carlino, Lockett, and Reinhardt a month + into the season to really find their role).  But with the likelihood that at least some of the transfer's credits don't transfer over to their new school, that can be a pretty big set back academically, and being a D1 college athlete it can be hard to make those up.  I know they take summer courses, but aren't you still making it pretty unlikely that the transfer graduates in 4 years?

Probably no worse that what an incoming freshman experiences.

[wadesworld]

Probably no worse that what an incoming freshman experiences.

But an incoming freshman isn't losing credits towards graduation that they've already earned.

Academically you have to try pretty hard not to remain eligible as a high major, major sport division 1 athlete.  It's not really about getting passing grades with all of the support they have in place.  You're not just hurting yourself if you aren't passing your classes as a student athlete, you're also hurting your program, so they're going to do pretty much everything they can to make sure you can a) be eligible to be on the court helping your team succeed and b) not hurt your program's APR.  The problem here is that you're probably not taking 16-18 credits because of your athletic commitments, so you're going to be taking summer classes to make up for them, which is fine.  But when you start to lose those credits because they didn't transfer from one school to the other then suddenly you're in a pretty tough position to graduate by the time your athletic eligibility expires.

[Spotcheck Billy]

But an incoming freshman isn't losing credits towards graduation that they've already earned.

Academically you have to try pretty hard not to remain eligible as a high major, major sport division 1 athlete.  It's not really about getting passing grades with all of the support they have in place.  You're not just hurting yourself if you aren't passing your classes as a student athlete, you're also hurting your program, so they're going to do pretty much everything they can to make sure you can a) be eligible to be on the court helping your team succeed and b) not hurt your program's APR.  The problem here is that you're probably not taking 16-18 credits because of your athletic commitments, so you're going to be taking summer classes to make up for them, which is fine.  But when you start to lose those credits because they didn't transfer from one school to the other then suddenly you're in a pretty tough position to graduate by the time your athletic eligibility expires.

Do we have any idea how many of Froling's credits didn't transfer or are you speculating about this being a common problem?

Just wondering, not a slam.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

My bigger ? is about JUCOs. If its about helping the athlete academically than why are JUCOs immediately eligible? They are at much greater risk of credits not transferring and struggling in their first year than traditional transfers. If its about academics than all transfers should be required to sit out, not just the ones whose transfer would be inconvenient to NCAA membership.

[Jay Bee]

My bigger ? is about JUCOs. If its about helping the athlete academically than why are JUCOs immediately eligible?

A JUCO w a two yr degree, as is most often the case (MU has had some exceptions), can't continue their education at their current school. The decision tree is end education or do. It end it, hey? Very diff animal than a 4-4 D1 transfer

[wadesworld]

Do we have any idea how many of Froling's credits didn't transfer or are you speculating about this being a common problem?

Just wondering, not a slam.

You're right that I don't know anything about individual cases, but I think just in general that when someone transfers from one college to another there are typically some credits that do not transfer over.  I actually don't know that for certain, so I could be wrong.

[MU82]

Somebody gets Buzz-cut or Pole-axed or whatever by a coach - in other words, they get recruited over and they actually are highly "encouraged" to transfer. That exact thing could happen if we are lucky enough to get Grimes.

Should that kid really have to sit out a year?

(I admit to not being as up on the rules as some others here. Maybe that kid wouldn't have to sit out?)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

A JUCO w a two yr degree, as is most often the case (MU has had some exceptions), can't continue their education at their current school. The decision tree is end education or do. It end it, hey? Very diff animal than a 4-4 D1 transfer

So? If they were forced to sit out a year they would still get a scholarship at their new school. Why does "end education or do" matter? Transfers sitting out is not supposed to be about keeping people from transferring, its supposed to be about benefiting the athlete's academics. No group needs that benefit more than JUCO transfers.

[MomofMUltiples]

What is the rule if a student with no association with his current D-1 school's basketball program transfers to be a scholarship bball player at another D-1 program? 

Unlikely situation, I know, but I'm sure there must be a rule to address it.

[B. McBannerson]

I think this part is completely overblown.

Does anyone have an example of a situation where a team got a new arena and the program as a whole measurably improved?

In the state alone

Wisconsin, Kohl Center
Marquette women's basketball and women's volleyball (Old Gym to Al)

Let's look at it another way, why did we bother to build the Al?  If a building makes no difference or is overblown?  Why did Louisville bother to leave Freedom Hall?  The coaches / administrators believe it makes a huge difference to keep up with the Jones'.  I'm not sure how we can measure what would have happened if they weren't built, the data is impossible to predict.

In my view, DePaul has been a dumpster fire program for several decades playing in a dumpster fire arena.  They have a chance to rekindle something and open some eyes to cover the blemishes of the program.  Whether they do it or not we wait and see, but this is a life line for them that they should be able to take advantage of.

[B. McBannerson]

Xavier during those first 15 years played in the MCC and other lesser conferences, not exactly what they played in since the Cintas center.

[bilsu]

Schools/coaches should not be able restrict transfers to another school.  Call it the Bo Ryan rule.

[B. McBannerson]

Schools/coaches should not be able restrict transfers to another school.  Call it the Bo Ryan rule.

If tampering is suspected, they absolutely should be able to.

[Bocephys]

If tampering is suspected, they absolutely should be able to.

Easy to say tampering is suspected, hard to prove

[B. McBannerson]

Easy to say tampering is suspected, hard to prove

Yes, but it happens.  It will happen uncontrollably if this dumb idea of transfer free agency is voted in.  Will be completely uncontrollable.  At least today the kid has to sit, and that decision weighs heavily regardless of how much tampering is going on.  Take that year of sitting out, tampering will be an every day occurrence.

[MU82]

Somebody gets Buzz-cut or Pole-axed or whatever by a coach - in other words, they get recruited over and they actually are highly "encouraged" to transfer. That exact thing could happen if we are lucky enough to get Grimes.

Should that kid really have to sit out a year?

(I admit to not being as up on the rules as some others here. Maybe that kid wouldn't have to sit out?)

Nobody?

Even JB thinks it would be unethical to force this transfer to sit out a year?

[Benny B]

Someone please talk to 82 so he doesn't have to carry on a conversation with himself.

[MU82]

Someone please talk to 82 so he doesn't have to carry on a conversation with himself.

It's often the only way I can get anybody to listen to me.

My poor dog. We have quite the "conversations" every time I walk her!

[Dr. Blackheart]

It's often the only way I can get anybody to listen to me.

My poor dog. We have quite the "conversations" every time I walk her!

So your ménage a trois consists of "me, myself and I", ai-na?  Variety is the spice of life.

[MU82]

So your ménage a trois consists of "me, myself and I", ai-na?  Variety is the spice of life.

Well, me always thought myself was sexy!