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Author Topic: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18  (Read 275687 times)

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #375 on: September 19, 2017, 11:22:38 AM »
I'm not wishing injuries on anyone. If that's how you read it, that wasn't my intention.
Rivera is a mediocre coach, at best. Four losing records in six seasons. Record of 20-23 in one-possession games.
Hard to say how good the Bills' defense is when you consider they've matched up against two of the most inept offenses in the league. Next two games are against Denver and Atlanta, so we'll see.


The Panthers don't need to apologize for their schedule, but fans probably shouldn't be crowing over a 2-0 mark given the quality of their opponents.

Obviously, I'm a fan, and so I am biased. Still, for a fan, I think I am more realistic than most.

I do not think the Panthers' offense is "inept." I think they had a bad game against an athletic, pretty talented defense coached by a guy (ex-Panthers defensive coordinator) who knows the Panthers better than anybody else in the league. And Cam Newton threw only 2 passes in the preseason and is still trying to find his stride after offseason shoulder surgery. He missed a wide-open receiver for a TD in each of the first 2 games; by Week 4 or 5 (hopefully Week 3!) he won't be missing that pass.

Rivera was a rookie coach in 2011; it took him a couple of years to find his voice and his style, and it took the Panthers a couple of years to draft and trade for some talent. Saying that was all on Rivera would be like saying Wojo's first two years were all on him. Rivera went 12-4 in his third season, starting a stretch in which the Panthers went 34-13-1 over the next 3 seasons, with 3 division titles and a trip to the Super Bowl. Bill Belichick, at 36-12, was the only coach with a better record during that time. To a man, Panthers players credited Rivera's calm demeanor and willingness to adapt with the team's improvement. The Panthers have had just about no discord in the locker room during Rivera's entire time here.

As you noted, the Panthers suffered a spate of injuries last season, including to the previous season's MVP as well as to the best linebacker in football. Their idiot GM let a shut-down corner leave as a free agent. Their offensive line was ravaged by injuries; by midseason, they were playing third-stringers at center and tackle, and an already banged-up Newton was running for his life. If you want to hold the coach responsible for all of that, that's your prerogative.

Yeah, I was guilty of "crowing" after a 2-0 start because I'm a dopey fan. We'll learn a lot more about the Panthers the next two weeks. The Saints can't play defense but they can move the football, so we'll see if the Panthers can rack up the points on O while holding Brees & Co. at bay. The following week, my boyz visit New England, and that will be a supreme challenge.
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RJax55

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #376 on: September 19, 2017, 12:21:57 PM »


I think people are just getting tired of bad football. I love to see a great defense on the field, but we see more inept offenses than good defenses.

GB did not play great defense to hold Seattle to 9 points. It was the terrible Seattle offense that held the Seahawks to 9 points. The same inept offense that could only score 12 points at home against SF. A good offense rolled through GB's defense at will on Sunday night. They could have scored 60 if they had to. The next juggernaut offense they play scores fewer points than a lot of soccer teams

The Giants have scored one TD in two games against two very, very average defenses. That is what is driving people away from the NFL.

There's a league-wide issue with OL play right now and that is a direct contributor to poor offensive play.

rocket surgeon

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #377 on: September 19, 2017, 04:48:36 PM »


I think people are just getting tired of bad football. I love to see a great defense on the field, but we see more inept offenses than good defenses.

GB did not play great defense to hold Seattle to 9 points. It was the terrible Seattle offense that held the Seahawks to 9 points. The same inept offense that could only score 12 points at home against SF. A good offense rolled through GB's defense at will on Sunday night. They could have scored 60 if they had to. The next juggernaut offense they play scores fewer points than a lot of soccer teams

The Giants have scored one TD in two games against two very, very average defenses. That is what is driving people away from the NFL.

What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?   

  Go back over the past seasons since 1998.  Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1.  In 2001 it was 20.2.  The range has been 20.1-23.4.  Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification.  At worst, it's very short sighted.  I know what he's hoping is not the cause.  When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts.  Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.

     Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far.  Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here?  If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out.  It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

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jesmu84

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #378 on: September 19, 2017, 05:49:39 PM »
What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?   

  Go back over the past seasons since 1998.  Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1.  In 2001 it was 20.2.  The range has been 20.1-23.4.  Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification.  At worst, it's very short sighted.  I know what he's hoping is not the cause.  When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts.  Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.

     Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far.  Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here?  If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out.  It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm

LOL at the idea that people protesting racism are the reason the NFL is losing viewers/customers. If that's REALLY the reason people have stopped participating, our society/country is seriously f'ed

GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #379 on: September 19, 2017, 06:31:09 PM »
What we need is more cowbell then eyn'a?   

  Go back over the past seasons since 1998.  Right now, avg. per team game is 20.1.  In 2001 it was 20.2.  The range has been 20.1-23.4.  Given the season is only 2 games old, this statement is at best oversimplification.  At worst, it's very short sighted.  I know what he's hoping is not the cause.  When trying to realize what is causing the drop in a business's customer base, hoping what isn't causing it will get you fired or losing your shorts.  Everything is on the table and as a business owner, one better not approach this with eyes wide shut.

     Cleveland seemed to have the best approach thus far.  Time will tell if both sides maintain their positions, but bottom line, who's in charge here?  If the owners allow the inmates to run the asylum, well, lets see how this plays out.  It's above my pay grade and one of the reasons I'm not an owner of an NFL team ;D

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/scoring.htm





So we are going to blame someone for kneeling for the anthem who's not in the league any longer? 

rocket surgeon

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #380 on: September 19, 2017, 07:05:20 PM »


So we are going to blame someone for kneeling for the anthem who's not in the league any longer?

Now where did I say that anywhere within my text?  But as long as you brought it up-somewhat.  But it's not the only reason.  It sure ain't the decrease in offense.  How would the people who attended those lower attended games know the score was going to be 9-3 or whatever? 

If I am the owner of a business, I do not leave anything off the table.  This(drop in attendance and ratings) is a little more complex than kneeling, raising a fist, whatever, but that may have been the spark.  Let's look at it this way however-attendance last year fell for the first time in 4 years.  A few things came in to play-the presidential debates and then what's his name sitting.  Yes there are other things-too many commercials, steep ticket prices, too many televised games.  There is a pink elephant in the room however-I think what's his name's protest on the NFL's dime was the last straw
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GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #381 on: September 19, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »
Now where did I say that anywhere within my text?  But as long as you brought it up-somewhat.  But it's not the only reason.  It sure ain't the decrease in offense.  How would the people who attended those lower attended games know the score was going to be 9-3 or whatever? 

If I am the owner of a business, I do not leave anything off the table.  This(drop in attendance and ratings) is a little more complex than kneeling, raising a fist, whatever, but that may have been the spark.  Let's look at it this way however-attendance last year fell for the first time in 4 years.  A few things came in to play-the presidential debates and then what's his name sitting.  Yes there are other things-too many commercials, steep ticket prices, too many televised games.  There is a pink elephant in the room however-I think what's his name's protest on the NFL's dime was the last straw


It had very little to do with it.  Most people still watch.  They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play

"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."

---

"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."


rocket surgeon

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #382 on: September 19, 2017, 09:54:07 PM »
LOL at the idea that people protesting racism are the reason the NFL is losing viewers/customers. If that's REALLY the reason people have stopped participating, our society/country is seriously f'ed

You did read my whole entry, right?    Some of you just can't help yourselves.  No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned
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Jockey

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #383 on: September 19, 2017, 10:34:53 PM »

It had very little to do with it.  Most people still watch.  They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play

"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."

---

"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."

It IS bad football. Points are at the lowest level in 25 years. Points have dropped over 14% in just the last 5 years alone.

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #384 on: September 19, 2017, 10:44:12 PM »
It IS bad football. Points are at the lowest level in 25 years. Points have dropped over 14% in just the last 5 years alone.

Yep. Damn Kaepernick.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #385 on: September 19, 2017, 11:01:42 PM »

It had very little to do with it.  Most people still watch.  They just aren't watching as much because the game is poor.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/19/16332762/watchability-fun-football-boring-quality-of-play

"In the past five years of the NFL, offenses have reached unprecedented levels of scoring, quarterbacks have become more accurate than ever, turnovers have plummeted—and yet, it’s not fun. If you simply read the statistical markers, it would seem like every offense was as exciting as the pub scene from Inglourious Basterds. Sacks and interceptions hit all-time lows last year, but that just means that quarterbacks are getting rid of the ball quicker and opting for shorter, safer targets. We have reached one of the most frustrating eras in football history. Everything is fine and it doesn’t look good."

---

"Ratings dipped again on Sunday. Sunday Night Football’s Packers-Falcons game was down 8 percent from last season and 23 percent from 2015. The curious thing about these dips is that the number of people viewing games is not down, but the amount of time they’re watching for is. Unless “only watching part of a game” is a new form of political boycott, that reasoning for the ratings drop doesn’t hold much water."

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GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #386 on: September 20, 2017, 07:25:40 AM »
You did read my whole entry, right?    Some of you just can't help yourselves.  No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned


I'm going to be honest with you.  You put a lot of superfluous crap in your posts.  So when you say something like "I know what he's hoping is not the cause," what exactly do you mean by that?  How are we supposed to interpret that if you don't spell it out?

rocket surgeon

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #387 on: September 20, 2017, 01:07:02 PM »

I'm going to be honest with you.  You put a lot of superfluous crap in your posts.  So when you say something like "I know what he's hoping is not the cause," what exactly do you mean by that?  How are we supposed to interpret that if you don't spell it out?

"Superfluous crap" is your term, not mine.  You're a smart guy, figure it out, but it's just one of the quite a few things I mentioned.  Why hone in on JUST that.  That is what I was questioning. Someone always has to bring up the, as you would put it when it suits you, "victim" card
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GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #388 on: September 20, 2017, 01:10:41 PM »
"Superfluous crap" is your term, not mine.  You're a smart guy, figure it out, but it's just one of the quite a few things I mentioned.  Why hone in on JUST that.  That is what I was questioning. Someone always has to bring up the, as you would put it when it suits you, "victim" card


barfolomew

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #389 on: September 20, 2017, 01:20:53 PM »
Correlation or causation?

The NFL must be unwatchable because this NFL thread is unreadable.

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jesmu84

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #390 on: September 20, 2017, 08:11:51 PM »
You did read my whole entry, right?    Some of you just can't help yourselves.  No, that's Not REALLY the REASON...this ain't a one trick pony as I mentioned

Uh...

You make a stance that scoring isn't the reason. Then make a claim that you have to look at every possible reason. Then state Cleveland is doing things the correct way...

You blatantly imply what the major problem is and take a stance on it. You then go on to talk about "inmates" running things. Don't have to have esp to figure out what you're thinking

B. McBannerson

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #391 on: September 20, 2017, 09:05:14 PM »
JD Power survey

Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games.  30% giving that reason.  Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187

GGGG

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #392 on: September 20, 2017, 09:13:59 PM »
JD Power survey

Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games.  30% giving that reason.  Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187


Because a lot of evidence suggests that the same number of people are watching.  They are simply watching less.

That's not much of a boycott.

jesmu84

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #393 on: September 21, 2017, 05:09:03 AM »
JD Power survey

Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games.  30% giving that reason.  Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/nfl-tv-ratings-slide-worries-wall-street-1041187

I'd like to see the Venn diagram between those offended by peaceful protests of racism and those who believe racism doesn't exist

Also be interesting to see those poll results sorted by age
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 05:12:07 AM by jesmu84 »

mu03eng

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #394 on: September 21, 2017, 11:50:41 AM »
I'd like to see the Venn diagram between those offended by peaceful protests of racism and those who believe racism doesn't exist

Also be interesting to see those poll results sorted by age

It also be interesting to see the reasons behind a boycott....those because Kap knelt and those that are pissed that Kap doesn't have a job. At this point, I'd guess it's close to a 50-50 split
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Pakuni

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #395 on: September 21, 2017, 02:36:53 PM »
JD Power survey

Anthem protests number 1 reason people are watching fewer football games.  30% giving that reason.  Couple that with CBS study saying protests are a contributing factor, makes you wonder why so many are afraid to admit this is part of it. Not all of it, but part of it.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games


This poll has been well-eviscerated.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/07/28/espn-distorts-analysis-of-poll-question-regarding-nfl-viewing-habits/

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/27/16050800/nfl-viewership-national-anthem-protests-jd-power-survey-2017

http://deadspin.com/how-to-mangle-a-survey-by-darren-rovell-1797307721





jesmu84

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #397 on: September 21, 2017, 04:57:12 PM »
Changing gears a bit...

Can anyone explain to me the economics/finances behind Arthur Blank being able to charge so little for his concessions? It isn't just the Falcons, either. He made it so that any event held there would have the same pricing.

Are the tickets to events there just more expensive to make up the difference? It's pretty baffling to me.

I can certainly say that concession prices are a big barrier to me of going to most events at NFL, etc stadiums.

DegenerateDish

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #398 on: September 21, 2017, 05:49:42 PM »
Changing gears a bit...

Can anyone explain to me the economics/finances behind Arthur Blank being able to charge so little for his concessions? It isn't just the Falcons, either. He made it so that any event held there would have the same pricing.

Are the tickets to events there just more expensive to make up the difference? It's pretty baffling to me.

I can certainly say that concession prices are a big barrier to me of going to most events at NFL, etc stadiums.

I think there's a couple of things at play. It's the south, where I personally think it's easier to do something like this (weak comparison on my part, but Masters concession prices as an example). I think having more self service kiosks helps drive down costs. Looking to sell higher volume helps greatly (if that's a goal, which I'm sure it is). Falcons still offer "high end" eating options as well, at higher prices.

I think Blank is being progressive too, Atlanta isn't a pro sports town, it makes for good publicity, and may encourage more families to come out.

Years ago I gave up eating/drinking at Soldier Field, between the cost and overall quality (lack there of) in the food. It's awful.

MU82

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Re: NFC North / NFL Thread 2017-18
« Reply #399 on: September 21, 2017, 06:34:23 PM »
Oh snap!

Not sure chicos can admit he was wrong.

Archie Bunker never could admit it, either.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

 

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