Families in the Northeast pay twice as much for college

[GGGG]

It's meaningless in terms of the quality of the education the institution provides, I agree with that and MU wouldn't become a better school overnight because they accepted 15% less students, BUT they would be perceived to be a better school.   Again I agree with everyone who says that stat has no bearing on quality,  but because some people feel otherwise they have to at least take it into consideration.  In an era when the cost of private higher education continues to skyrocket, the notion that MU isn't doing everything it can to enhance their brand (including exclusivity) is mind boggling.  If MU doesn't think it's an issue why don't they own the stat and wear it as a badge of honor and say we know we're great despite the fact that we let almost everybody in?  I wouldn't necessarily agree with that Trumpian approach but I'd at least respect them for giving the finger to the academic elite.  Would it work that's the question?

Instead they go out of their way to hide it and don't use the single most readily accessible stat that every school publishes to compare how they stack up against others.    Again I say all this as someone who is in total agreement that acceptance rate is meaningless in terms of academic quality, but it absolutely unequivocally is NOT meaningless as a recruiting tool.

So you are advocating that a University push a stat as an indicator of quality even though it isn't an indicator of quality?  That is pretty much the exact opposite of what higher education should be doing.

[Eldon]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but how crazy is this?

U.C. Irvine Rescinds Acceptances for Hundreds of Applicants

Just two months before they were to begin classes, 499 young men and women who had been accepted to the University of California, Irvine, received letters informing them that their acceptances had been rescinded.

The letters that went out starting last week left students scrambling to either appeal the decision or make other plans for the fall.

“This is not a typical year,” Tom Vasich, a spokesman for the university, said in a phone interview on Friday. He said the problem arose because “more students than we expected accepted admission to the university.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/29/us/uc-irvine-acceptance-rejected.html

I guess that's one of the pitfalls of playing the yield game.

[jsglow]

I didn't want to start a new thread, but how crazy is this?

U.C. Irvine Rescinds Acceptances for Hundreds of Applicants

Just two months before they were to begin classes, 499 young men and women who had been accepted to the University of California, Irvine, received letters informing them that their acceptances had been rescinded.

The letters that went out starting last week left students scrambling to either appeal the decision or make other plans for the fall.

“This is not a typical year,” Tom Vasich, a spokesman for the university, said in a phone interview on Friday. He said the problem arose because “more students than we expected accepted admission to the university.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/29/us/uc-irvine-acceptance-rejected.html

I guess that's one of the pitfalls of playing the yield game.

WOW.  I suspect that there might be a class action possible out of this.  I'm not an attorney and don't play one on TV but I smell damages.

[GGGG]

WOW.  I suspect that there might be a class action possible out of this.  I'm not an attorney and don't play one on TV but I smell damages.

The acceptance letter is conditional and mentions this as a possibility.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

There are approximately 2,500 four year colleges & universities in the United States.  Being ranked in the top 100 means a school is among the top 4% of all colleges & universities in the U.S.

Marquette is among the top 4% of all colleges & universities in the country!  I could give a flying fudgsicle what the acceptance rate is.

[Disco Hippie]

So you are advocating that a University push a stat as an indicator of quality even though it isn't an indicator of quality?  That is pretty much the exact opposite of what higher education should be doing.

No.  All I'm saying is it's a mistake for Marquette, or any other institution looking to increase it's national profile within the U.S. higher education landscape, to dismiss acceptance rate completely, say it's totally unimportant, and claim anyone who cares about it is an elitist snob.  That's just not helpful.  As long as some consumers of higher education think it's important (and I can assure you that rightly or not, almost everyone where I come from and currently live does), they need to evaluate how it influences the perception of the brand.  It's not the be all and the end all, but as an avid MU recruiter here in the northeast, parents do look at it.  It's one data point of many, that folks take into consideration and for Marquette to completely ignore it is a mistake because I've seen first hand how some parents react to that stat.  Several have called me out about it at more than one college fair where I represented MU and I gave the line, it has no bearing on quality, I went to the comm school and am now an executive at a major media company, blah blah blah.  For some people, a 75% acceptance rate is just too damn high.  Frankly I find it hard to believe that parents of high school seniors in the midwest don't look at it at all.  Of course they do!  Everyone does so it's ridiculous to chalk the issue up to coastal elitist snobbery.  Do people in the northeast and west coast make a bigger deal out of it than Midwesterners or Southerners?  Probably sure but students from the coasts are also increasingly considering and attending Marquette.

[Disco Hippie]

Here's what MU is really interested in.  2,000 Frosh every year with a slow uptick in student quality.  What they'd also like is not to have to subsidize quite as many via scholarship with the endowment as it currently stands but that's not practical at the moment. 

Then they should be recruiting aggressively at all of the public high schools in the wealthy NYC suburbs in Westchester & Nassau County NY, Fairfield County CT and New Jersey.  These places are extremely wealthy and most parents here can afford to pay a significantly higher percentage of the sticker than average.  If that's truly a goal, that's where they should be recruiting in the Northeast which they haven't been as best I can tell util the last year or so.  I'm not familiar with the west coast so I can't address that but in terms of bang for the buck it probably is the right strategy.  California overtook MN a couple of years ago as MU's 3rd biggest draw after IL and WI so that makes sense.

[StillAWarrior]

Then they should be recruiting aggressively at all of the public high schools in the wealthy NYC suburbs in Westchester & Nassau County NY, Fairfield County CT and New Jersey.  These places are extremely wealthy and most parents here can afford to pay a significantly higher percentage of the sticker than average.  If that's truly a goal, that's where they should be recruiting in the Northeast which they haven't been as best I can tell util the last year or so.  I'm not familiar with the west coast so I can't address that but in terms of bang for the buck it probably is the right strategy.  California overtook MN a couple of years ago as MU's 3rd biggest draw after IL and WI so that makes sense.

I know that's a significant part of the strategy of my son's school, Elon University in North Carolina. I see that after NC, states 2-5 are MA, NJ, NY and CT.  Their focus on recruiting the NE even prompted them to change athletic conferences a few years ago so that they'd have more exposure in the NE.  I don't know how their current stats compare to their stats five years ago, but they seem to be doing pretty well.  FWIW, we've been very happy with it.

[jsglow]

Then they should be recruiting aggressively at all of the public high schools in the wealthy NYC suburbs in Westchester & Nassau County NY, Fairfield County CT and New Jersey.  These places are extremely wealthy and most parents here can afford to pay a significantly higher percentage of the sticker than average.  If that's truly a goal, that's where they should be recruiting in the Northeast which they haven't been as best I can tell util the last year or so.  I'm not familiar with the west coast so I can't address that but in terms of bang for the buck it probably is the right strategy.  California overtook MN a couple of years ago as MU's 3rd biggest draw after IL and WI so that makes sense.

I do think that part of the thought process on lacrosse was to raise visibility along those lines.  Public schools are an interesting problem.  Usually if you can get a handful of kids, word of mouth can take over.  My own kids' public HS here in suburban Chicago (home turf, right) had a decent pipeline going while my kids 'talked it up'.  I believe that's dried up some now that they have graduated.  Of course the legacy connection is always a good start.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

So how many thousands of applications does Marquette need to generate to get the acceptance rate down to 65%?  Mind you, virtually none of these new applications can be accepted, otherwise the acceptance rate won't be affected much.  Those that are would have to offset other acceptances.  Then you have to consider how likely these students are to enroll.  Are you accepting kids that actually want to go school at Marquette?  Or do new acceptances go elsewhere while Marquette is turning away recruits that could have enrolled?

After all this, getting the acceptance rate down, hopefully doing it with out hurting enrollment numbers...how many new east coast recruits will apply to Marquette and more importantly how many will ultimately enroll?  5? 10? 30? 100?  How much time and money is spent to accomplish this?  Is it worth the return on investment?  Looks like a lot of time, effort, and money for very little return.

[jsglow]

So how many thousands of applications does Marquette need to generate to get the acceptance rate down to 65%?  Mind you, virtually none of these new applications can be accepted, otherwise the acceptance rate won't be affected much.  Those that are would have to offset other acceptances.  Then you have to consider how likely these students are to enroll.  Are you accepting kids that actually want to go school at Marquette?  Or do new acceptances go elsewhere while Marquette is turning away recruits that could have enrolled?

After all this, getting the acceptance rate down, hopefully doing it with out hurting enrollment numbers...how many new east coast recruits will apply to Marquette and more importantly how many will ultimately enroll?  5? 10? 30? 100?  How much time and money is spent to accomplish this?  Is it worth the return on investment?  Looks like a lot of time, effort, and money for very little return.

That's kind of the thought process associated with the new targeted approach.

[GGGG]

No.  All I'm saying is it's a mistake for Marquette, or any other institution looking to increase it's national profile within the U.S. higher education landscape, to dismiss acceptance rate completely, say it's totally unimportant, and claim anyone who cares about it is an elitist snob.  That's just not helpful.  As long as some consumers of higher education think it's important (and I can assure you that rightly or not, almost everyone where I come from and currently live does), they need to evaluate how it influences the perception of the brand.  It's not the be all and the end all, but as an avid MU recruiter here in the northeast, parents do look at it.  It's one data point of many, that folks take into consideration and for Marquette to completely ignore it is a mistake because I've seen first hand how some parents react to that stat.  Several have called me out about it at more than one college fair where I represented MU and I gave the line, it has no bearing on quality, I went to the comm school and am now an executive at a major media company, blah blah blah.  For some people, a 75% acceptance rate is just too damn high.  Frankly I find it hard to believe that parents of high school seniors in the midwest don't look at it at all.  Of course they do!  Everyone does so it's ridiculous to chalk the issue up to coastal elitist snobbery.  Do people in the northeast and west coast make a bigger deal out of it than Midwesterners or Southerners?  Probably sure but students from the coasts are also increasingly considering and attending Marquette.

It has nothing to do with an east coast, midwest or west coast thing.

Really the fact that people actually ask you about it shows that they really don't know anything about how bad that statistic is.  Marquette is right to ignore it.  If it costs them some students because they lost a bragging point then...oh well...

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I know that's a significant part of the strategy of my son's school, Elon University in North Carolina. I see that after NC, states 2-5 are MA, NJ, NY and CT.  Their focus on recruiting the NE even prompted them to change athletic conferences a few years ago so that they'd have more exposure in the NE.  I don't know how their current stats compare to their stats five years ago, but they seem to be doing pretty well.  FWIW, we've been very happy with it.

My wife teaches at a public high school in Connecticut and this has been one of the "trendy schools" lately.

[Herman Cain]

I do think that part of the thought process on lacrosse was to raise visibility along those lines.  Public schools are an interesting problem.  Usually if you can get a handful of kids, word of mouth can take over.  My own kids' public HS here in suburban Chicago (home turf, right) had a decent pipeline going while my kids 'talked it up'.  I believe that's dried up some now that they have graduated.  Of course the legacy connection is always a good start.

Then they should be recruiting aggressively at all of the public high schools in the wealthy NYC suburbs in Westchester & Nassau County NY, Fairfield County CT and New Jersey.  These places are extremely wealthy and most parents here can afford to pay a significantly higher percentage of the sticker than average.  If that's truly a goal, that's where they should be recruiting in the Northeast which they haven't been as best I can tell util the last year or so.  I'm not familiar with the west coast so I can't address that but in terms of bang for the buck it probably is the right strategy.  California overtook MN a couple of years ago as MU's 3rd biggest draw after IL and WI so that makes sense.

When the school published the strategic plan for having a  Lacrosse program, one of the objectives was to raise visibility of the school in upper income demographics in the Northeast / Mid Atlantic in addition to traditional midwest sources of  these type families. Lacrosse has been successful in this regard and the students they have recruited have in essence become walking bill boards for MU in their  home communities.  In the traditional lacrosse markets of the Northeast the sport is carried  with live games on the local cable networks with a lot of promotion as to where student is going to play college ball. MU has gotten big airplay in places like Baltimore, Philly, Long Island, CT, NJ , Westchester. What happens is people in the region who know MU from basketball can also have a point of reference to an actual  MU student athlete in their community . 

I have spent a fair amount of time working with families and providing them reasons to go to MU and the name recognition of a known person is helpful in closing the deal.  The  final hurdle I always have to overcome is the acceptance rate. The acceptance rate becomes less of an issuance when they know kids from their area are going to the school.

One of the best marketing tools for MU to close on actual enrollments, is to have legions of kids with rejected applications. The school needs to be seen as selective as to who they admit.  I see their current strategy of lowering grades and test numbers, going for diversity etc as  a downward spiral. (FYI I am black as the ace of spades and don't believe in the diversity thing). Worse students admitted means lousy students graduating means less of a reputation in the market for our final product. Less success means less future rich alumni giving back money.

[warriorchick]

One of the best marketing tools for MU to close on actual enrollments, is to have legions of kids with rejected applications. The school needs to be seen as selective as to who they admit.  I see their current strategy of lowering grades and test numbers, going for diversity etc as  a downward spiral. (FYI I am black as the ace of spades and don't believe in the diversity thing). Worse students admitted means lousy students graduating means less of a reputation in the market for our final product. Less success means less future rich alumni giving back money.

Exactly where are you seeing that they are lowering grades and test numbers?

[jsglow]

When the school published the strategic plan for having a  Lacrosse program, one of the objectives was to raise visibility of the school in upper income demographics in the Northeast / Mid Atlantic in addition to traditional midwest sources of  these type families. Lacrosse has been successful in this regard and the students they have recruited have in essence become walking bill boards for MU in their  home communities.  In the traditional lacrosse markets of the Northeast the sport is carried  with live games on the local cable networks with a lot of promotion as to where student is going to play college ball. MU has gotten big airplay in places like Baltimore, Philly, Long Island, CT, NJ , Westchester. What happens is people in the region who know MU from basketball can also have a point of reference to an actual  MU student athlete in their community . 

I have spent a fair amount of time working with families and providing them reasons to go to MU and the name recognition of a known person is helpful in closing the deal.  The  final hurdle I always have to overcome is the acceptance rate. The acceptance rate becomes less of an issuance when they know kids from their area are going to the school.

One of the best marketing tools for MU to close on actual enrollments, is to have legions of kids with rejected applications. The school needs to be seen as selective as to who they admit.  I see their current strategy of lowering grades and test numbers, going for diversity etc as  a downward spiral. (FYI I am black as the ace of spades and don't believe in the diversity thing). Worse students admitted means lousy students graduating means less of a reputation in the market for our final product. Less success means less future rich alumni giving back money.

Well, you've said a lot in that.  Here's some facts.  1) Marquette's Freshman class has actually improved modestly in the last few years both in terms of quality and size.  And compared to the 1990s, it's night and day. (Sorry you guys with a '93 degree.  If you could read back then you got in!)  2) Marquette has re-emphasized its Jesuit mission in an attempt to lure more students of color and first generation to college.  They've publicly stated that.  I don't have the numbers in front of me but this year's entering class has made real progress on that stated objective and the university is thrilled.

Now let me add.  There's zero desire to have the class academic profile deteriorate and there's no evidence that it's happening.  Lacrosse is another nice 'front porch' touch point that hopefully stirs interest in the northeast so that's great.  But I can assure you that Marquette as a matter of mission prefers enrolling that Hispanic kid from Cristo Rey to just about anyone on the candidate list.  Now they won't compromise class quality to achieve that.  But they are emphasizing that in their outreach.  And in light of the fact that Marquette is in Milwaukee where the minority population is growing but where the minority middle class still economically lags behind, I applaud the effort.

[Herman Cain]

Exactly where are you seeing that they are lowering grades and test numbers?

Well, you've said a lot in that.  Here's some facts.  1) Marquette's Freshman class has actually improved modestly in the last few years both in terms of quality and size.  And compared to the 1990s, it's night and day. (Sorry you guys with a '93 degree.  If you could read back then you got in!)  2) Marquette has re-emphasized its Jesuit mission in an attempt to lure more students of color and first generation to college.  They've publicly stated that.  I don't have the numbers in front of me but this year's entering class has made real progress on that stated objective and the university is thrilled.

Now let me add.  There's zero desire to have the class academic profile deteriorate and there's no evidence that it's happening.  Lacrosse is another nice 'front porch' touch point that hopefully stirs interest in the northeast so that's great.  But I can assure you that Marquette as a matter of mission prefers enrolling that Hispanic kid from Cristo Rey to just about anyone on the candidate list.  Now they won't compromise class quality to achieve that.  But they are emphasizing that in their outreach.  And in light of the fact that Marquette is in Milwaukee where the minority population is growing but where the minority middle class still economically lags behind, I applaud the effort.

A few comments.

1. I know the two of you have worked your tails off for the school and respect that and your opinions on these matters.  Actually, your opinions have more weight than mine,  since you have participated real time and I am more of an ad hoc street recruiter of sorts.

2. That said, what I meant by lowering the standards was in reference to an article  from a prior thread that one of you posted. whereby MU lets in weaker kids based on diversity quota.
https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2017/05/08/how-marquette-becoming-more-diverse
I am simply not a fan of the push for diversity for diversity sake. In this article, which describes lower standards for Latinos, and a push to recruit students from poor backgrounds, and community colleges.  I think once MU goes down down that path, it will corrupt the meat and potatoes of the school ,which is the upper middle class white suburban kids who pack the vast majority of the 2000 seats each year.  Seriously, why would someone pay a fortune to send their kid to a school full of kids who come from a lousy background ?  When Mommy and Daddy come up with the suburban  kids for a campus visit, they can get over the whole neighborhood issue we have by convincing themselves that they are still among like background kids. So these parents take great comfort in seeing the North Shore Chicago, East Grand Rapids crowd etc  That is how I close the deal with a lot of the Northeast parents. I tell them, Mr and Mrs X don't worry about the bad neighborhood, there are plenty of people that look like you in the school. I will tell you that It is a big comfort to them to hear this. You have to understand people are willing to be liberal minded in their outlook but not when it comes to Johnny and Susies perceived college safety. They equate safety to more people that look the same way. Sorry but that is the reality. I have had enough people walk in the opposite direction when they see me coming to know that is the case.  The strategy being espoused by the current management team has huge risks for the school as it makes the school LESS ATTRACTIVE TO THE CORE of its student body; the people who pay full freight. It is a high risk low reward strategy.

3. I want to see the GREAT kids from a lousy background for MU.  That is a totally different thing than the average kids we are settling for. Herein is another reason the ratings matter. The GOOD kids from the BAD environment go straight to the highest rated school they can find.  Trust me I know how the Ghetto kids operate (having been one myself many years ago) and  we go for the BRAND first.   Brands that have strength are worth a lot. I was in a lousy area of Philly recently, and wearing some MU gear,  when some older people my age came up to me and mentioned how back in the day, the name Marquette meant a lot to the street basketball kids there because of our whole brand from Al and the uniforms and team.  We need to build that kind of academic brand identity as an aspiration school.

So by my way of thinking the best way for MU  to get the brand up is to recruit better quality kids from the respected public high  schools and selected prep schools.  MU would be well served if every year a a kid or two from places for example like Ridgefield, Staples, New Canaan, Darien, Greenwich, Scarsdale , Horace Greeley , Rye, Garden City , Great Neck , Radnor, Lower Merion,  Any of the New England or Maryland Prep Schools etc.  The side benefit is the more of those you get , the more chance you have of landing a better kid from the better catholic schools that are traditional MU students , which helps get you to the magic 2000 number of students each year.

Then when you get the brand up, MU can more readily compete for the  QUALIFIED diversity students. The ones that people actually want in their schools.  The kind of kids that are getting full ride scholarships. My attitude is go for excellence and don't settle for second best when first is available.  You want the first thing to come to peoples mind when the name Marquette is mentioned academically is that is very high quality school with high quality kids.

I would like to see the grades and Test scores moved up significantly, The best way to do that is not to let in a bunch of mediocre kids based on simply based on the fact that they are disadvantaged kids of color. Lets get the best kids available as the priority.  There are plenty of double directional schools that are designed as entry points for the low end academic kids. We don't need to be competing with Chicago State for students.   If we are going for the Cristo Rey kids great, but I want the best Cristo Rey kids those that are attractive to the better schools.

One of the things that Wisconsin did many years ago was up their standards for admission .  They used to take the top 50 percent of the high school class in Wisconsin and then kids would flunk out.  They got wise and started pushing the lower kids to the off brand schools in the system like Whitewater and by doing that upped their game.  This really got the ball rolling for their school and now people all over the country are trying to get in there. 

[Disco Hippie]

It has nothing to do with an east coast, midwest or west coast thing.

Really the fact that people actually ask you about it shows that they really don't know anything about how bad that statistic is.  Marquette is right to ignore it.  If it costs them some students because they lost a bragging point then...oh well...

Except that many of these potential students come from very wealthy families with annual HHI well in excess of $500K a year!   If Glow's statement about MU not wanting to have to subsidize as many students via scholarship with the endowment as it currently stands is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then like it or not, the administration needs start catering more to students/parents who feel this way and adjust their strategy accordingly.  I understand that these folks by and large have not been Marquette's primary recruiting constituency, but they need to pay more attention to these people.  Just because parents make a ton of dough doesn't mean their kids can get into top 50 schools so a place like Marquette can be a great fit for many of these students if only the university actually was willing to do what's necessary to appeal to them.  From my vantage point they've been asleep at the wheel in this region.   I've said it a million times and I'll say it again.  My high school sends about 5 students a year to Madison and they have every year since I graduated in the late 80's.  The last person to go to MU from my high school was me.  Did I mention I graduated high school in the late 80s? 

[jsglow]

Except that many of these potential students come from very wealthy families with annual HHI well in excess of $500K a year!   If Glow's statement about MU not wanting to have to subsidize as many students via scholarship with the endowment as it currently stands is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then like it or not, the administration needs start catering more to students/parents who feel this way and adjust their strategy accordingly.  I understand that these folks by and large have not been Marquette's primary recruiting constituency, but they need to pay more attention to these people.  Just because parents make a ton of dough doesn't mean their kids can get into top 50 schools so a place like Marquette can be a great fit for many of these students if only the university actually was willing to do what's necessary to appeal to them.  From my vantage point they've been asleep at the wheel in this region.   I've said it a million times and I'll say it again.  My high school sends about 5 students a year to Madison and they have every year since I graduated in the late 80's.  The last person to go to MU from my high school was me.  Did I mention I graduated high school in the late 80s?

It IS important.  But it's not as important as the stated and practiced objective to increase minority and first in family to college enrollment.  Marquette has discussed its role in a working class middle class city publicly.  I personally think this is one thing that Mike might see as somewhat more important than Fr. Wild.  Mike views our ties to the community as a very high priority.

Look, Marquette is culturally quite different today than the school that I graduated from in 1983.  Many think that cultural change is not in keeping with the mission.  What you have recommended would certainly further than change.  I don't think the current administration wants to go there.

Again, these are just my observations.  I've not sat down in Mike's office for an hour to discuss.

[Herman Cain]

Except that many of these potential students come from very wealthy families with annual HHI well in excess of $500K a year!   If Glow's statement about MU not wanting to have to subsidize as many students via scholarship with the endowment as it currently stands is accurate, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, then like it or not, the administration needs start catering more to students/parents who feel this way and adjust their strategy accordingly.  I understand that these folks by and large have not been Marquette's primary recruiting constituency, but they need to pay more attention to these people.  Just because parents make a ton of dough doesn't mean their kids can get into top 50 schools so a place like Marquette can be a great fit for many of these students if only the university actually was willing to do what's necessary to appeal to them.  From my vantage point they've been asleep at the wheel in this region.   I've said it a million times and I'll say it again.  My high school sends about 5 students a year to Madison and they have every year since I graduated in the late 80's.  The last person to go to MU from my high school was me.  Did I mention I graduated high school in the late 80s? 

It IS important.  But it's not as important as the stated and practiced objective to increase minority and first in family to college enrollment.  Marquette has discussed its role in a working class middle class city publicly.  I personally think this is one thing that Mike might see as somewhat more important than Fr. Wild.  Mike views our ties to the community as a very high priority.

Look, Marquette is culturally quite different today than the school that I graduated from in 1983.  Many think that cultural change is not in keeping with the mission.  What you have recommended would certainly further than change.  I don't think the current administration wants to go there.

Again, these are just my observations.  I've not sat down in Mike's office for an hour to discuss.

If Dr. Lovell was willing to get on the road and personally meet the Parents in the top tier schools we are discussing, he could really get some great traction for MU.  Wealthy and pseudo Wealthy people love that personal touch from the top brass. In my town I have seen quite a few Patriot League schools do just that. The family wants to get their Non Ivy quality into a perceived good school.  XYZ Patriot shows up on their doorstep and next thing you know Mommy and Daddy are sending 6 figure donation.  Those kids are usually well adjusted people and do well .  Next thing you know over the long haul you have some 7 figure donors emerge.  I know this doesn't square with the whole social justice theme. However, my view of charity is you have to take care of yourself first before you can do well by others. Like I said above, lets create go for the top tier disadvantaged kids. To do that costs money because every school in America wants them.

As a former homeless person ,I know it is possible to work your way up by the bootstrap if you are willing to be a hard worker and strive for excellence.  I never had a damn handout, nor did I expect one.  What I did was consort with the successful and learned from them. Back in the day I worked in the warehouses off Blue Mound unloading trucks ( you could get an extra $20 if you unloaded the bananas)  and freight cars, when I was on break I got to know the bosses. Used those connection to work my way through school . Got absolute top grades. Banged on doors until Wall Street let me in and from there I worked 24/7/365 till I made partner and went on from there to Corporate world .  Everything MU is doing is the exact opposite of the path I took.

[jsglow]

If Dr. Lovell was willing to get on the road and personally meet the Parents in the top tier schools we are discussing, he could really get some great traction for MU.  Wealthy and pseudo Wealthy people love that personal touch from the top brass. In my town I have seen quite a few Patriot League schools do just that. The family wants to get their Non Ivy quality into a perceived good school.  XYZ Patriot shows up on their doorstep and next thing you know Mommy and Daddy are sending 6 figure donation.  Those kids are usually well adjusted people and do well .  Next thing you know over the long haul you have some 7 figure donors emerge.  I know this doesn't square with the whole social justice theme. However, my view of charity is you have to take care of yourself first before you can do well by others. Like I said above, lets create go for the top tier disadvantaged kids. To do that costs money because every school in America wants them.

As a former homeless person ,I know it is possible to work your way up by the bootstrap if you are willing to be a hard worker and strive for excellence.  I never had a damn handout, nor did I expect one.  What I did was consort with the successful and learned from them. Back in the day I worked in the warehouses off Blue Mound unloading trucks ( you could get an extra $20 if you unloaded the bananas)  and freight cars, when I was on break I got to know the bosses. Used those connection to work my way through school . Got absolute top grades. Banged on doors until Wall Street let me in and from there I worked 24/7/365 till I made partner and went on from there to Corporate world .  Everything MU is doing is the exact opposite of the path I took.

Um, maybe you're not aware because you're not an alum.  Mike spent his entire first year on the road.  Every corner of the country.  A whole year.  It was unprecedented in the history of the university.

[Herman Cain]

Um, maybe you're not aware because you're not an alum.  Mike spent his entire first year on the road.  Every corner of the country.  A whole year.  It was unprecedented in the history of the university.

I saw Dr. Lovell around a lot. It was a good thing for sure. It bought him some time.

What I am talking about is on a more granular level with live prospects. That is a different level of engagement than what he did. Going into their homes and having meeting  with influential parents. There is an art form to doing this.

At some point I am going to sit down with Dr.Lovell and make my case. Bill Scholl completely agrees with me as that is what Notre Dame did and he was at the forefront of raising a lot of money for them.

By the way this is not a strictly  Northeast thing. There are plenty of rich people all over the country and I think we can make the sale on the West Coast pretty well also.

[warriorchick]

I saw Dr. Lovell around a lot. It was a good thing for sure. It bought him some time.

What I am talking about is on a more granular level with live prospects. That is a different level of engagement than what he did. Going into their homes and having meeting  with influential parents. There is an art form to doing this.

At some point I am going to sit down with Dr.Lovell and make my case. Bill Scholl completely agrees with me as that is what Notre Dame did and he was at the forefront of raising a lot of money for them.

By the way this is not a strictly  Northeast thing. There are plenty of rich people all over the country and I think we can make the sale on the West Coast pretty well also.

Perhaps you should take your sage advice and approach your own alma mater with it.

[Benny B]

As a former homeless person....

I don't think hanging out on Yasgur's farm on an August weekend forty-eight years ago qualifies you as being homeless.

[GGGG]

So I heard a presentation yesterday from an enrollment management firm that is considered the top of the industry.  Some things they said:

1. Students and parents are seeing through the ranking game.  Too many services providing too many rankings are decreasing their utility.

2.  They are also much more concerned about "outcome based statistics" (job placement rate, graduate school admission rate) than they are about "income based statistics" (exclusivity rate).

3.  Everything about student recruitment these days is about efficiency.  Every effort is about weighing the marginal costs of the effort versus the marginal revenue.  Technology allows schools to be much more efficient than they have been previously.

Considering Marquette's "new" enrollment director has worked with this firm previously, Marquette has obviously adopted the same philosophies.  Smart move being on the forefront of student recruitment these days and not simply doing what worked 20 years ago.