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Author Topic: High school shot clock in Wisconsin  (Read 2530 times)

mr.MUskie

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High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« on: June 28, 2017, 12:31:18 AM »

The clock is ticking
Schools have two years to prepare for shot clock
Bob Mainhardt for the River News

The Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association dropped a bombshell Thursday sure to reverberate through high school gymnasiums across the state.

The WIAA Board of Control reviewed a number of proposals for winter sports and the most glaring change to the rulebook is the implementation of the 35-second shot clock in varsity basketball games starting in 2019-2020.

Wisconsin will become the ninth state - following California, New York, Washington, Massachusetts, Maryland, Rhode Island, North Dakota and South Dakota - to begin using a shot clock.

The decision has its supporters and its detractors. Some feel giving kids a timeframe on when to shoot can compromise fundamental basketball by causing them to rush to get a shot off.

"At the high school level, I believe you have a lot of skill work that still needs to be taught and I feel like there's going to be more bad shots, more junk basketball, just throwing it up and down," said Rhinelander High School activities director Brian Paulson, a former high school basketball head coach.

"Part of me is not over enthusiastic about it," RHS boys' basketball coach Derek Lemmens added. "I think it takes away some elements of high school basketball that are really what kind of separate it (from the college and pro game)."

Proponents of the shot clock feel it will make basketball more enjoyable for players, fans and coaches.

"I think it's great. I think it'll add some fun to the basketball game," Lakeland head coach Rich Fortier said. "It'll add some more nuances like the NBA's 2-for-1 where you have to plan for the shot clock. It forces teams to play basketball. Sometimes I like to take the air out of the ball, but I think it just adds another level of excitement to the game. It'll speed up the game a little bit and it should reward the more talented team by making teams play against each other. I'm all for it."

For coaches, the stall is no longer an allowable strategy. Some coaches have had a tendency to hold onto the ball when they have a slim lead, or in hopes of limiting offensive opportunities for a superior opponent.

In some cases, stalling was taken to the extreme. In March 2016, Antigo held the ball in a stall for more than seven minutes during one point in the first half of a WIAA Division 2 tournament game at Rhinelander. The Red Robins ended up winning 14-11 but drew state-wide attention due to the unusually low score.

"It also favors the better team," Jesse Shaw, the mastermind of Antigo's stall tactic that night told the Antigo Daily Journal in a text message. "There will not be as many upsets when you increase possessions and therefore it will take away from the purity of the high school game."

"We have teams in our conference, not just the Antigo thing, that play very deliberate," Lemmens said. "They'll work the ball for a minute, a minute-thirty and this forces them to find a way to attack it. If we can keep selling our pride in defense, I'm excited about that."

The move to a shot clock was far from a slam dunk. Though the proposal passed through the WIAA's Coaches Committee, Sports Advisory Committee and Advisory Council, it was approved by the Board of Control on a slim 6-4 margin.

"I think, when you watch the state tournament and you see people standing at half court, I think it's a good argument for a shot clock," said board of control vice president and Great Northern Conference commissioner Scott Winch, who voted against the measure. "But I also believe there's more than one (style of basketball). The Dick Bennett, deliberate style of basketball, I think there's still a place for that in the high school sports and probably in college for that matter, too."

Bennett, the former head coach of the University of Wisconsin men's team and a legend in Wisconsin basketball, is known for his dedication to a slow, patient offense.

One thing everyone can agree on, the shot clock is going to force coaches and players to change their thinking and increase awareness.

"I think you'll adjust to use that to your advantage," Rhinelander girls' basketball coach Ryan Clark said. "We'll be a pressing team next year, but I can see utilizing the press to eat up some seconds on the shot clock. Offensively, we're going to push the ball, reverse the ball. Probably the disadvantage will be when you're going against a better team, you can't shorten the game. That would probably be the one negative."

Players must now exhibit better time management skills, making sure they are aware of how much time is on the shot clock in order to take the best shot possible.

"I think it'll force players and coaches, but coaches probably more so, to come up with end-of-shot clock situations just like they do with end-of-quarter situations or end-of-game situations," Fortier said. "You get a set of plays or stable of things that you want to do at the end of the shot clock and you practice that. It's going to affect what we have to do to get ready for that because we'll have to face that a few times a game. As far as players go, they're going to have to get better at seeing things on the floor. They're going to have another thing they have to look at on the floor. I hope it'll be positioned right above the backboard like it generally is, but it'll force them to pay attention to that and it'll force them to work on end-of-shot clock situations, which generally includes going to the hole, which everyone is working on now anyway."

The change is the latest in a series of rules passed by the WIAA and/or the National Federation of High Schools (NFHS) designed to bring the high school game more in line with its collegiate cousin. Prior to the 2015-16 season, the NFHS tightened the rules on defenders' ability to touch ball handlers in the open court. A year later, the WIAA switched from eight-minute quarters to 18-minute halves for varsity basketball games.

"My fear in this is we do all these things where we're trying to make our game more like the college game," Lemmens said. "College keeps talking about making their game more like the NBA. I cringe at that thought."

Extra burden on schools

Winch noted the Board of Control amended the proposal to go into effect for the 2019-20 season, opposed to the 2018-19 season. He hopes extra time will allow schools time to purchase the equipment and train the personnel required to have the shot clocks ready to roll by November 2019.

"I do worry about the cost for schools and the training of a person, but I think given that extra year of planning that can be solved, too," he said.

The vast majority of schools across the Northwoods will have to retrofit shot clocks into their existing scoreboards or install new scoreboards capable of handling shot clocks. Paulson said he was already on the phone Friday with representatives from Daktronics, the manufacturer of the scoreboards inside the Jim Miazga Community Gymnasium, requesting a quote to install shot clocks.

Many districts, such as Lakeland and Rhinelander, have made budget cuts to their athletic departments, so the cost of a shot clock, which can be thousands of dollars, could make an impact.

"I've cut our athletic budget by 20 percent in the last three or four years and money is continuously being taken away, but every time the WIAA implements a change like this it ends up costing the schools more," LUHS athletic director Don Scharbarth said. "Not only do I have to buy the equipment, I probably have to pay someone to run the equipment so that's always something that we have to consider. When it's forced on us, the WIAA doesn't give us any real breaks, they just expect it to happen."

Paulson said Rhinelander would "absolutely" have to bring on an extra worker to operate the shot clock during varsity contests.

"It kind of needs to be someone who knows about basketball," Winch said of the shot clock operator. "I think you can train just about anybody to train a scorebook if you want, but a shot clock, you've got to be a little bit more on the ball, I think. That will be an interesting transition."

Schools acrosss the state still have two full seasons to prepare for that transition and the start of the shot clock era.

tower912

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2017, 05:37:15 AM »
They couldn't implement this until after Bo and UW parted ways.    He would never have allowed it. 
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MUEng92

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2017, 06:10:41 AM »
The coaches at my local high school are some of the biggest offenders of the stall.  Literally stand there and dribble or hold the ball for 2-3 straight minutes. The players look confused, the crowds from both schools get ornery.  I have seen fans walk out of the gym in frustration. I personally hate it. And yes, I understand the other coach has the ability to tell his players to closely guard the dribbler.

That said, isn't there a less drastic way to deter this situation?

GGGG

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 07:27:29 AM »
The coaches at my local high school are some of the biggest offenders of the stall.  Literally stand there and dribble or hold the ball for 2-3 straight minutes. The players look confused, the crowds from both schools get ornery.  I have seen fans walk out of the gym in frustration. I personally hate it. And yes, I understand the other coach has the ability to tell his players to closely guard the dribbler.

That said, isn't there a less drastic way to deter this situation?


How?  The only way you can get an offense to execute is to put a time limit on something.

4everwarriors

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 08:14:37 AM »
Two years kneeded ta get reddy four dis, reely? Just shoot da fookin' rock qicker, hey?
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 08:50:43 AM »
Will this impact Wisconsin's recruiting? Maybe they were able to convince local players to come play for them because their slow as molasses style of play isn't that different from the WIAA.


....I'm only mostly kidding.
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Benny B

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2017, 03:28:41 PM »
My city's HS won the state championship back in the 80's... wouldn't have made it out of regionals with a shot clock.  No lie, I remember several games when my cousin scored more points in the first quarter than the other team did after halftime. 

Vivid memories of my cousin - during the sectional semis, no less - casually standing five feet inside the timeline with the ball under one arm as though he was waiting for the driver to unlock the bus.  One game away from state, and the other team wouldn't even challenge him even though they were down 15-20 points (mostly because he was so quick, he'd break ankles all the time and get an open drive to the hoop because the other four were guarding the corners).  It almost seemed like a lot of these games were over at halftime, and if I didn't know better, I'd think the other teams would rather lose by 10 than try to close the gap and risk losing by 20.

Doesn't need to be 35 seconds, though... 40 seems better, but whatever.  Shot clock's been needed in HS for quite a while so I'm not going to complain.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Jockey

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2017, 05:30:08 PM »
I miss Phil Ford standing for 10 minutes with the ball doing nothing. The excitement was exhilarating.

CTWarrior

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 10:20:26 AM »
I miss Phil Ford standing for 10 minutes with the ball doing nothing. The excitement was exhilarating.
You can make a strong argument that we owe our national championship to Dean Smith going into a stall prematurely.  Agree, I hate the stall.  I was surprised to find that most states did not use a shot clock.  I always figured Connecticut was in a small minority that didn't use it.
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#UnleashSean

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 08:31:23 PM »
Thank God. This is a long time coming.


Also one of the "cons" is training someone to use it? Really? Lol.

rocket surgeon

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2017, 12:24:34 AM »
Two years kneeded ta get reddy four dis, reely? Just shoot da fookin' rock qicker, hey?

watch, they're gonna need to get those fancy NBA backboards that light up when the buzzer goes off.  those don't grow on trees too much, eyn'er?
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GGGG

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2017, 07:53:40 AM »
Thank God. This is a long time coming.


Also one of the "cons" is training someone to use it? Really? Lol.


Training someone to use it is easy.  Paying someone is another expense.  They will have to have three people working the table instead of two.

Benny B

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2017, 10:50:55 AM »

Training someone to use it is easy.  Paying someone is another expense.  They will have to have three people working the table instead of two.

So maybe instead of charging adults a $1.00 admission, perhaps these schools should charge $1.05?  That would be enough to give the schools financial freedom.
Wow, I'm very concerned for Benny.  Being able to mimic Myron Medcalf's writing so closely implies an oncoming case of dementia.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2017, 11:12:53 AM »
Division 5 girls basketball with a shot clock...hmm...wonder how that will work out?

No disrespect meant to the young ladies.  But I can't imagine it going well.

MU82

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2017, 11:45:57 AM »
As a girls basketball coach, I like it.

Very few possessions last 35 seconds. The vast majority end with a shot or a turnover in the first 10-20 seconds.

It will force coaches to pay a little attention to one more thing, but we already teach our kids they have to get it into the frontcourt in 10 seconds, have to inbound it in 5 seconds, can't dribble in place for 5 seconds, can't stand in the lane for 3+ seconds, etc.

The adjustment might be a little ugly for some teams at first, but they will adjust, as they adjust to every other new rule.

This will make for interesting end-of-game strategy decisions: 40 seconds left and you're down by 2; do you foul or do you play good defense knowing that if the opponent holds for 35 seconds, you'll only have 5 seconds to score? Stuff like that.

There is nothing worse than a team that stalls for 2, 5, 8 minutes at a time. Those games suck.

I wish we would get it here in NC.
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Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2017, 11:55:58 AM »
Thanks for your perspective MU82.  I'll see how it works out.

GGGG

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2017, 12:02:51 PM »
The shot clock improved the game at the NBA and NCAA levels.  I'm sure it will do the same in high school.

MUEng92

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2017, 12:07:45 PM »
So maybe instead of charging adults a $1.00 admission, perhaps these schools should charge $1.05?  That would be enough to give the schools financial freedom.

$1? We pay $4 for every game!!!  Are you saying Waukesha County high schools has been overcharging us by 400% all these years?


GooooMarquette

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2017, 01:48:26 PM »

You can make a strong argument that we owe our national championship to Dean Smith going into a stall prematurely.  Agree, I hate the stall.  I was surprised to find that most states did not use a shot clock.  I always figured Connecticut was in a small minority that didn't use it.


Al certainly felt that way.  From an old article I found:

McGuire said the championship was decided during a 2-minute 36-second span in the second half, after Carolina had charged back from 12 points down to a 45-45 tie and Smith ordered his team into the four corners. McGuire countered by having his players fake a man-to-man defense, then falling back into their zone, a maneuver that brought action to a halt, stopped the Tar Heels momentum and ate up the clock.

"The clock, I felt, was my friend. They were the odds-on favorites and their sweat was drying," McGuire said. "They were losing momentum, even though nothing was being done. There was no scoring but there was something happening."

"That 2 1/2 minutes was the key to the game. It was like taking a timeout, losing a contact lens, something to ice the other club. Then they missed the shot, Butch scored and turned 'em. After that it was Wisconsin Av, every light in Milwaukee was on, and the phones overloading the phone wires between Atlanta and back here."

#UnleashSean

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 06:56:41 PM »
As a girls basketball coach, I like it.

Very few possessions last 35 seconds. The vast majority end with a shot or a turnover in the first 10-20 seconds.

It will force coaches to pay a little attention to one more thing, but we already teach our kids they have to get it into the frontcourt in 10 seconds, have to inbound it in 5 seconds, can't dribble in place for 5 seconds, can't stand in the lane for 3+ seconds, etc.

The adjustment might be a little ugly for some teams at first, but they will adjust, as they adjust to every other new rule.

This will make for interesting end-of-game strategy decisions: 40 seconds left and you're down by 2; do you foul or do you play good defense knowing that if the opponent holds for 35 seconds, you'll only have 5 seconds to score? Stuff like that.

There is nothing worse than a team that stalls for 2, 5, 8 minutes at a time. Those games suck.

I wish we would get it here in NC.

Do girls in Wisconsin have a 10 second back court? The college game for some reason does not.

MU82

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2017, 06:06:27 AM »
Do girls in Wisconsin have a 10 second back court? The college game for some reason does not.

No idea about Wiscy. I'm in NC, and we do have a 10-second count.
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MUEng92

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Re: High school shot clock in Wisconsin
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2017, 08:35:42 AM »
Do girls in Wisconsin have a 10 second back court? The college game for some reason does not.
Yes