Brendan Bailey Mission Update

[dgies9156]

I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.

[tower912]

Yup.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I'm mostly just surprised people still carry cash around. I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

Same. I almost never carry cash. And if I do, it's gone immediately.

It's an age thing.

[Newsdreams]

I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.

The purpose of the nativity story is that he was born homeless

[source?]

OT, but is there any benefit to using a debit card? I have one because my bank sent me one, but I don't think I've used it even once. No rewards points. Am I missing something?

Most situations that require cash you can use a debit card, the ones you can't there is usually an ATM nearby. Cash gets stolen and it's gone. Debit card gets stolen, cancel it and get a new one.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Most situations that require cash you can use a debit card, the ones you can't there is usually an ATM nearby. Cash gets stolen and it's gone. Debit card gets stolen, cancel it and get a new one.

Not all grocery stores accept credit cards.

Woodman's accepts debit cards but not credit cards. Aldi only started accepting credit cards in the last year or so.

You can also make cash withdrawals without a fee when you use a debit card at certain stores.  A credit card would typically charge a fee/interest on cash advances.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

While car was being serviced ,the shuttle driver and several passengers and i discussed the panhandlets on every corner. The driver told us of a BMW he was washing after service and when he opened the trunk ther were dozens of the signs they use of every size and shape andcondition.
When in Portland once a homeless guy asled me for a meal to "sober him up".
I took him i to McDonalds and fed him .thought that was legit.

[vogue65]

I really find much of this conversation kinda unfortunate.

Jesuit educated people are "Men and Women for Others." Mr. Bailey showed the best of what we are supposed to be about. If that's a typical Mormon, then maybe we Catholics need to learn something! I don't know whether he debated how the money would be used. Rather, I suspect he saw a person in need and did what he could at the time to help. That's called living the Gospels.

If you read the Gospels, Jesus wasn't educated at the Israelite version of Harvard, nor did he request a meeting with Pilate, Caesar or any other luminaries of his time. He hung out with the poor, the downtrodden and the folks society forgot. Yes, that's the prostitutes and tax collectors. I'm sure Jesus saw more than a few homeless in his day and if I had to guess, Jesus would have been far more likely to act like Mr. Bailey than any of the folks in this room who question how the homeless spend money.

Whether any of us gives or doesn't give to panhandlers is beside the point. We should congratulate Mr. Bailey on representing of the values we hold dear at Marquette. We should find a means in each our souls to emulate the overall love for a fellow person that Mr. Bailey showed.

Likewise, and what does the current Pope have to say on the subject?

Two extremes, the Mormons and the Salvation Army, take your pick.

[fjm]

Once gave a kid about early 30's on the side of the street with his dog a $20 spot cause I felt real bad.

Kid you not, next day dude rolls into the ER hammered drunk with same clothes on except with a brand spanking new Yankees hat on with the stickers and price tags still on it.

I got played hard  I've changed to now making ziplock baggies with granola bar, 3 mints and a small bottled water in each. No more giving money for me.

[Dawson Rental]

Agree. Dude was performing, using a skill few possess, for an hour.  Who would consider that begging?

Actually, it was probably paid rehearsal.  Why pay for rehearsal space when you can get rehearsal space that pays.

[keefe]

Worse, coffee.

Even worse: glutens

[keefe]

While there are some people who panhandle to support an alcohol or drug habit, the vast majority don't. The most common thing panhandled money is used for is food. However, giving money directly to panhandlers is not the best way to help them as it only offers short term relief for immediate needs. Best option is to donate to various programs that help the homeless get off the street. Feed a man a fish and such.

Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.

It might not be an opinion, but its a very skewed result. Highest number I can remember seeing for % of homeless who abuse drugs is 26% and that was from a study in 2009. Most are lower. It seems your group works with an abnormal pocket of the population.

You also have your cause and effect backwards. Drug abuse very rarely leads to poverty. But poverty is a huge risk factor for drug abuse. I don't know your group but I would be willing to bet most of the drug abusers you encounter were in poverty long before they used drugs.

[B. McBannerson]

Not sure of your source but I am active in Congregations For the Homeless (CFH) which is an eastside Seattle program that not only feeds and shelters the homeless but provides a support system for getting people off of the streets and into employment and stable housing.

For every person we intake there are at least 10 who refuse the help. There is one reason for this refusal: they reject the requirement for personal responsibility. We prohibit alcohol, tobacco, and drugs and most of those who eschew our services have a problem with these restrictions. Sadly, the vast majority of those choosing to remain on the streets are unwilling to give up their heroin habit. 

The vast majority of pan handlers have drug habits. This is not an opinion. I know this from working with CFH.

40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/

[brewcity77]

40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/

Which is still not a "vast majority" by any form of accounting. Based on my experiences, the 40% number seems about right, though I'd guess the majority of those are alcohol. Alcohol is far more prevalent among our homeless population here than drugs. The vast majority of drugs users I personally see have jobs and homes, and that includes heroin users. Of the 12 I've personally had in the past 5 work shifts (including today), 11 were employed and had homes.

This probably isn't necessarily the place for this discussion, but while heroin and other opiates are no doubt a problem of epidemic proportions, the homeless seem to abuse alcohol more frequently. I'm sure that ease of access helps that.

[forgetful]

40% to 50% per this website, including alcohol and drugs combined.  You are doing God's work. Bless you.

https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/homelessness/

Your link doesn't provide any support for their numbers.  They through out claims that studies concluded those numbers, but do not provide a citation.  Not a good source to support your assertion.  But as Brewcity said, 40% seems reasonable when combining drugs and alcohol. 


The more important statistic is that over 1/3 of all homeless people suffer from severe mental illness.  Very often these people have no good avenue for treatment and resort to self medication.  For homeless veterans this number can rise above 70%. 


This shows the danger in pointing to drug/alcohol.  The problem is mental illness and we do not like to talk about that problem in America. 


If you want to better understand homelessness, buy a group of them a meal and sit and listen to their stories.  It will change your perspective.

[brewcity77]

The problem is mental illness and we do not like to talk about that problem in America.

Just like we don't like to talk about the actual root of the opiate epidemic. It's getting worse because doctors are prescribing more opiates. What starts as a simple percocet prescription becomes an addiction, and once the script runs out, the newly created addict must choose between withdrawals or finding another fix.

Illegal pills are expensive so many turn to heroin. It's often more potent and cheaper, but also more dangerous because you never really know what's in it. Our societal reaction is to blame the addicts. When they overdose, medical personnel give them Narcan, monitor them for a few hours, and cut them loose again.

None of this actually addresses the real problem. It doesn't stop the doctors from prescribing more opiates and creating more addicts and it doesn't get the addicts the help they need to get clean. It would be a massive financial cost to address the root of the problem, both by lessening the income for doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit off the prescriptions and the treatment costs for addicts that would likely need at least weeks if not months of inpatient care to actually get clean, with continued follow-up once they complete rehab.

[keefe]

Just like we don't like to talk about the actual root of the opiate epidemic. It's getting worse because doctors are prescribing more opiates. What starts as a simple percocet prescription becomes an addiction, and once the script runs out, the newly created addict must choose between withdrawals or finding another fix.

Illegal pills are expensive so many turn to heroin. It's often more potent and cheaper, but also more dangerous because you never really know what's in it. Our societal reaction is to blame the addicts. When they overdose, medical personnel give them Narcan, monitor them for a few hours, and cut them loose again.

None of this actually addresses the real problem. It doesn't stop the doctors from prescribing more opiates and creating more addicts and it doesn't get the addicts the help they need to get clean. It would be a massive financial cost to address the root of the problem, both by lessening the income for doctors and pharmaceutical companies that profit off the prescriptions and the treatment costs for addicts that would likely need at least weeks if not months of inpatient care to actually get clean, with continued follow-up once they complete rehab.

In the teams we were constantly battered and bruised. It would have been far too easy to hit the opiates as the aches, pains, and injuries were recurring and severe. And on an op there was no going to sick call. Instead, we gobbled Motrin (Ranger M&M's) by the handful.

As a group, JSOC/AFSOC guys tend to be smart and disciplined with an exceedingly high threshold for pain. But even that population can fall into the trap of opiate addiction.

Imagine the struggle for those without the specific training for dealing with pain and stress. Little wonder that people unaccustomed to chronic pain, typical suburban office workers, can find the lure of immediate relief irresistible. Add in the incremental weight of homelessness and it is easy to envision the downward spiral. 

[brewcity77]

In the teams we were constantly battered and bruised. It would have been far too easy to hit the opiates as the aches, pains, and injuries were recurring and severe. And on an op there was no going to sick call. Instead, we gobbled Motrin (Ranger M&M's) by the handful.

As a group, JSOC/AFSOC guys tend to be smart and disciplined with an exceedingly high threshold for pain. But even that population can fall into the trap of opiate addiction.

Imagine the struggle for those without the specific training for dealing with pain and stress. Little wonder that people unaccustomed to chronic pain, typical suburban office workers, can find the lure of immediate relief irresistible. Add in the incremental weight of homelessness and it is easy to envision the downward spiral.

Agreed on all counts, and there's no easy solutions. I expect it will get worse before it gets better.

[keefe]

The purpose of the nativity story is that he was born homeless

The Nativity was chronicled by Luke but the imagery was actually invented by St Francis of Assisi.

The actual meaning of the nativity can be found in 1 Peter 1:3-4.

I find it interesting that the Nativity, a genuine expression of hope, love, and faith, is seen by many as an offensive symbol of prerogative and privilege.

[keefe]

I haven't used anything but a debit card in at least a month.

Must seem odd stuffing debit cards in G-strings...

[keefe]

It might not be an opinion, but its a very skewed result. Highest number I can remember seeing for % of homeless who abuse drugs is 26% and that was from a study in 2009. Most are lower. It seems your group works with an abnormal pocket of the population.

You also have your cause and effect backwards. Drug abuse very rarely leads to poverty. But poverty is a huge risk factor for drug abuse. I don't know your group but I would be willing to bet most of the drug abusers you encounter were in poverty long before they used drugs.

Not sure if the community I serve as a volunteer is skewed or not. Seattle, which because of its tolerance for the homeless, has a large population. It is also one that suffers from a very high percentage of substance abuse.

I have no idea of causality. My volunteer efforts specifically focus on working with veterans to help bring them the resources to which they are entitled.

I do not ever ask the how, when, or why. My efforts are aimed at education and facilitation. Everything else is parlor talk.
 

[tower912]

Early in my career, I said some unflattering things about one of our 'frequent fliers'.     I was brought up short by my officer who asked me if I knew why he never said anything negative about our homeless population.    I didn't.    He said that based on a tattoo on the homeless gentleman's arm, he was in Viet Nam about the same time as my officer.    He said that he knew way too many of his former comrades in arms who had ended up homeless.    And, but for the grace of God, that could be him.     So, he would never criticize the homeless.
    Having had my ass handed to me, I resolved to never judge, only to treat to the best of my ability, because unless I spent a lot of time with an individual, I was unlikely to know how they ended up where they did. 
    Opioids.   They are a scourge.    Like brewcity, I have been involved in several administrations of Narcan.    It's funny.   When a diabetic suffering low blood sugar who has been acting out has their sugar brought up to normal levels, they are normally apologetic.   When an opioid user who has overdosed receives Narcan, it is my experience that they come out of it pissed off and wanting to fight.   They nearly always vehemently deny using and some come around to admitting they were using and being mad at  us for spoiling their buzz.   
   I don't know what the answer is.   Since the beginning of time, humans have sought mind altering substances and better pain killers.   

[MU82]

Everything else is parlor talk.
 

My 91-year-old, Southside Chicago father-in-law calls a sofa a "parlor set," as in ... "Get dat dog offa da parlor set!"

[keefe]

My 91-year-old, Southside Chicago father-in-law calls a sofa a "parlor set," as in ... "Get dat dog offa da parlor set!"

What do they call a sofa in Davenport?